hello, new member, E60 M5 owner thinking about switching to 2012 C63!
12-13-2011, 04:15 PM
#26
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C63 Edition 1 Coupe
as far as the m5, one thing ill miss is the fierceness of the gear shifts when in M mode, and the hardest setting - s6. its hard to describe, you just have to experience it . its just pure "savagery".
made it feel a bit faster than it was i think
and yeah the gearbox is jerky and clunky around town.. but the engine is silky smooth...
it will always be a great car.
made it feel a bit faster than it was i think
and yeah the gearbox is jerky and clunky around town.. but the engine is silky smooth...
it will always be a great car.
Different type of fast between the 2 cars
12-13-2011, 04:20 PM
#27
Super Member
Thread Starter
Even with a tune warranty shouldn't be much of a concern (at least in the US, don't know how it works in Canada). I have had 4 e39 M5's (my all time favorite car...) and e60 M5, an e46 M3. The c63 doesn't quite have the track prowess of the m3 especially the e46 (just my opinion, the e46 was so much fun at the track), but will be better than the e60. Hard to compare the two, if you are worried about depreciation you may want to consider an edition one, they are limited to 100 coupes and 60 sedans so the hit may (just guessing here) not be as bad...
Another thing to consider as well is if you want turbos or not. I am a big fan of NA cars, likely most are on the way out. What may be big depreciation today may not be so bad in a couple years when all monster power is due to forced induction.
Another thing to consider as well is if you want turbos or not. I am a big fan of NA cars, likely most are on the way out. What may be big depreciation today may not be so bad in a couple years when all monster power is due to forced induction.
how does the rawness of the N/A c63 compare to the E60 M5?
and what is the p31 package?
12-13-2011, 10:02 PM
#28
Super Member
The P31 package is the light weight forged pistons, rods and crankshaft that is in the Merc SLS. The horsepower is raised to a published 480 at the crank, but most dyno results say that it's more like 518 at the crank. Mercedes doesn't want to publish the C class M156 the same as the other M156's in the upper classes. Top speed is raised to 186 mph. Also, the rotors are lighter weight 2-piece and the calipers are painted red. The rear spoiler is carbon fiber; the steering wheel is leather and alcantara combo. I believe that sums up the package.
12-13-2011, 10:48 PM
#29
Super Member
Thread Starter
The P31 package is the light weight forged pistons, rods and crankshaft that is in the Merc SLS. The horsepower is raised to a published 480 at the crank, but most dyno results say that it's more like 518 at the crank. Mercedes doesn't want to publish the C class M156 the same as the other M156's in the upper classes. Top speed is raised to 186 mph. Also, the rotors are lighter weight 2-piece and the calipers are painted red. The rear spoiler is carbon fiber; the steering wheel is leather and alcantara combo. I believe that sums up the package.
12-14-2011, 01:25 AM
#31
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2009 BMW M3
There's no doubt in my mind that you will love the C63! I've driven BMWs since 2002 ('02 M3, '05 M3, '07 M5, '07 335, '09 M3), so it surprised me to make the switch. However, I took delivery of my '12 C63 coupe about a month ago and couldn't be happier! It has the P31 package (highly recommended) and every other option except for Parktronic. I would suggest getting the LSD as well.
The only real frustration I had with my M3 was the lack of torque. There's no question it handles extremely well (slightly better than the C63 coupe), but having to constantly keep the RPMs high just to feel any sort of pull was never fun. My M3 was Dinan modded (460 hp and 334 lb/tq) and it wouldn't stand a chance against my C63 in any situation except for the track, but even that depends on who's driving each car.
A good friend of mine has an '08 M5 that's fully Dinan modded and looks similar to yours (very nice car btw!
). I agree that the aggressive shifting can be fun at times, but he has had his share of complaints about it as well. I haven't had a chance to race him, but I'm pretty sure I'd win or it would be very close.
As mentioned before, the C63 is more fun, more of the time. I love the look, upgraded interior, exhaust and the spine crushing torque in pretty much every gear (my friends call it the hand of God).
Another thing to mention is that MB offered me $1,000 for switching from BMW (it's called Conquest), as well as a complimentary day at the AMG Academy (worth $1,500).
Having to choose between two great cars is a tough one, but things could be worse.
The only real frustration I had with my M3 was the lack of torque. There's no question it handles extremely well (slightly better than the C63 coupe), but having to constantly keep the RPMs high just to feel any sort of pull was never fun. My M3 was Dinan modded (460 hp and 334 lb/tq) and it wouldn't stand a chance against my C63 in any situation except for the track, but even that depends on who's driving each car.
A good friend of mine has an '08 M5 that's fully Dinan modded and looks similar to yours (very nice car btw!
). I agree that the aggressive shifting can be fun at times, but he has had his share of complaints about it as well. I haven't had a chance to race him, but I'm pretty sure I'd win or it would be very close.As mentioned before, the C63 is more fun, more of the time. I love the look, upgraded interior, exhaust and the spine crushing torque in pretty much every gear (my friends call it the hand of God).
Another thing to mention is that MB offered me $1,000 for switching from BMW (it's called Conquest), as well as a complimentary day at the AMG Academy (worth $1,500).
Having to choose between two great cars is a tough one, but things could be worse.
12-14-2011, 01:39 AM
#32
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BMW
From having the m5 and the C63, I would make the move to the C63. Test drive if you haven't but the torque is a huge plus in these cars. Plus the transmission in the C63 is much better honestly.
Think you are making the right move.
Think you are making the right move.
12-14-2011, 08:50 PM
#33
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2020 GLE450
I just took delivery of a new M3 at the Performance Center and was able to experience the M5 "hot lap." That car is insane and the shifting is, as has been stated, "savage." Quite fun. But having owned a C63, there's definitely something to be said about the crazy torque offered by the 6.3.
As far as comparing AMG and M cars in daily use, I found that I was less conservative with the accelerator on the AMG than the M. It's great fun to see cars drop away like flies as you pull away when the light turns green (and by no means was I flooring it). The torque just whisks you away as if on a luxury missile.
Be sure to sit in the C63 seats for a decent amount of time as I found them a little less comfortable than the M seats (the bolsters make the seat a bit narrow, IMO). And if tire life is a factor in your decision making process, note that the C63 has great disrespect for rear tires.
Everyone should at some point in their lives own an AMG. But for rushing to sell your M5, I highly doubt the F10 will have any effect on your car's value. Someone shopping for a new $100k M5 probably won't be shopping for a used E60 M5.
As far as comparing AMG and M cars in daily use, I found that I was less conservative with the accelerator on the AMG than the M. It's great fun to see cars drop away like flies as you pull away when the light turns green (and by no means was I flooring it). The torque just whisks you away as if on a luxury missile.
Be sure to sit in the C63 seats for a decent amount of time as I found them a little less comfortable than the M seats (the bolsters make the seat a bit narrow, IMO). And if tire life is a factor in your decision making process, note that the C63 has great disrespect for rear tires.
Everyone should at some point in their lives own an AMG. But for rushing to sell your M5, I highly doubt the F10 will have any effect on your car's value. Someone shopping for a new $100k M5 probably won't be shopping for a used E60 M5.
12-14-2011, 09:12 PM
#34
My 2011 M3 is going back to the dealer Friday when I pick up my 2012 C63 coupe. I loved the M3 but the C63 is a beast. For the price (in Canada), the C63 coupe is a good $10k less than a fully optioned M3 and WAY less than an M5. I had the C63 on a track last week and it was very, very capable. Amazing car all around. For me the M5 is too large... I prefer a smaller car (a.k.a. C63) with similar performance and WAY less $$$.
12-15-2011, 05:48 AM
#35
Senior Member
Another thing to note, once I got the Eurocharged tune the shifts become, shall we say, a bit more savage like the m5's. Not quite as savage, but it definitely has that "slam you back in the seat" feel.
12-15-2011, 02:41 PM
#36
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That's not entirely true. I own a G55 and every year when the new one comes out; the price goes up as well. Usually that actually benefits sellers because they too can raise the price of their car when selling it. But then again I don't know too much about BMW and how their value holds. Just what I see happening time and time again with the Mercedes G Class.
12-15-2011, 02:55 PM
#37
Super Member
Thread Starter
i wonder if i can get that where i live (edmonton canada)
can you do it yourself, or does it have to be installed at a shop?
what kind of gains does it provide? (typical, conservative...)
12-15-2011, 05:04 PM
#38
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2021 Porsche TTS
You can ship your ECU to Eurocharged and they will have it back in a matter of days.
Great customer service and knowledge.
However, if you get the AMG/P31 package, I am not sure I would bother for warranty purposes unless you will get catless LTH and need the 02 sensors disabled.
Great customer service and knowledge.
However, if you get the AMG/P31 package, I am not sure I would bother for warranty purposes unless you will get catless LTH and need the 02 sensors disabled.
12-15-2011, 09:39 PM
#39
I am in Edmonton too. I've raced a friends M5 many times. If I am stock he will beat me ever time. Tuned (or P31 option) you will walk all over the M5. Can't beat the torque off the line.
A tuned C63 should have around 510hp, maybe a bit more, depends what tune you go with. They run around 1000 bucks and are just simply flashed onto the ECU. The ECU pops out from under the hood in 30 seconds.
Ill be at castrol drift practices and some street legal drags in the summer if you want to take a look.
Id suggest go seeing Rollie at David Morris Fine cars, tell him Troy sent you. He is excellent to deal with!!
Let me know if you have any questions too.
12-15-2011, 10:31 PM
#40
Super Member
Thread Starter
I am in Edmonton too. I've raced a friends M5 many times. If I am stock he will beat me ever time. Tuned (or P31 option) you will walk all over the M5. Can't beat the torque off the line.
A tuned C63 should have around 510hp, maybe a bit more, depends what tune you go with. They run around 1000 bucks and are just simply flashed onto the ECU. The ECU pops out from under the hood in 30 seconds.
Ill be at castrol drift practices and some street legal drags in the summer if you want to take a look.
Id suggest go seeing Rollie at David Morris Fine cars, tell him Troy sent you. He is excellent to deal with!!
Let me know if you have any questions too.
A tuned C63 should have around 510hp, maybe a bit more, depends what tune you go with. They run around 1000 bucks and are just simply flashed onto the ECU. The ECU pops out from under the hood in 30 seconds.
Ill be at castrol drift practices and some street legal drags in the summer if you want to take a look.
Id suggest go seeing Rollie at David Morris Fine cars, tell him Troy sent you. He is excellent to deal with!!
Let me know if you have any questions too.
thanks i pm'd you
12-16-2011, 02:05 AM
#41
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C63 AMG
I own both of the cars and in my opinion, there are a few deciding factors. I would give a few comment on each but please try not to penalize my english as I am not a native speaker. :P
Do you always carry passengers? How big are you?
Obviously, the M has more room both at the front and at the back. The M has one of the most comfortable front seat I ever sat in, not to mention the numerous adjustments you could have. The "active" side support (sorry forgot the name) is a real plus. At the back, the M does not look as if it has a lot of leg room, not enough to justify the size of the car anyways. However, if you would actually sat in the car, it's suprisingly comfortable. It seems that you actuallly "sink" into the car. The 63 front seat provides a lot of support and tugs you in real tight (I'm 180cm, 200lbs) If you are bigger than me, than you may find it a bit too tight. At the rear, I would find the seats are a big on the hard side. Although it matches well with the overall sporty design of the car.
Do you do a lot of city driving?
If you do, then you will appreciate the 63. The amount of torqe it puts out will put a smile on your face. The easiness in switching lanes and taking over cars are the things I love about my 63. The M will also do the job but if you are only cruising, you will need to drop 2 gears before making such move. If you do a lot of high way driving, you may prefer the M as the torque it gives out at the high rev range is irreplaceble! I FELT, (not necessary true in terms of performance) the 63 reaches the peak torque very quickly and stays there throughout the rev range but the M's torque progressively increases together with the rev. So, where do you drive and what kind of characteristics do you prefer?
Tuning, do you like tuning your car?
For both cars, you have many options to choose from, both in terms of exterior and performance wise. In terms of performance gain, with both cars being NA engines and you keep your modding path in keeping them NA, it seems the C63 could squeeze more power out compare to the M. You could easily squeeze 50-60 hp out of the C63 with tune and intake and exhaust but it will be difficult to squeeze the same amount out of the M. Having said that, the sound of a V10 engine with an exhaust mod is no doubt the best I've heard. If I am to sell my M, I will missed the exhaust sound the most. Transmission wise, I have to admit that the C63 is a smoother ride, too smooth that you tend to treat it as an automatic transmission. The SMG on the otherhand, has the real characteristics of a manual shift. I lean towards the SMG it keeps reminding me that not only I have to handle the steering wheel but also keeping the right shift point in order for the car to perform how it should. It does however, run into more problems than the tranny in teh C63.
How much does the interior design weighs on you?
This is really a matter of preference. I prefer the M as everything is more refine compare to the C63. The C has in general more "plastic" feel compare to the M. Given that the C series targets a different market sector than the 5 series, it is understandable. However, if you look at the E63, being it's "real" competitor, the E63 definitely gets my vote.
At the end of the day, both cars have it's pros and cons, if I am you, regardless of the resale value etc...I would jump into the C63 right away not because it is "better" than the M but because I have already owned an M5 and it's time for a new "toy" in time for Christmas!
Do you always carry passengers? How big are you?
Obviously, the M has more room both at the front and at the back. The M has one of the most comfortable front seat I ever sat in, not to mention the numerous adjustments you could have. The "active" side support (sorry forgot the name) is a real plus. At the back, the M does not look as if it has a lot of leg room, not enough to justify the size of the car anyways. However, if you would actually sat in the car, it's suprisingly comfortable. It seems that you actuallly "sink" into the car. The 63 front seat provides a lot of support and tugs you in real tight (I'm 180cm, 200lbs) If you are bigger than me, than you may find it a bit too tight. At the rear, I would find the seats are a big on the hard side. Although it matches well with the overall sporty design of the car.
Do you do a lot of city driving?
If you do, then you will appreciate the 63. The amount of torqe it puts out will put a smile on your face. The easiness in switching lanes and taking over cars are the things I love about my 63. The M will also do the job but if you are only cruising, you will need to drop 2 gears before making such move. If you do a lot of high way driving, you may prefer the M as the torque it gives out at the high rev range is irreplaceble! I FELT, (not necessary true in terms of performance) the 63 reaches the peak torque very quickly and stays there throughout the rev range but the M's torque progressively increases together with the rev. So, where do you drive and what kind of characteristics do you prefer?
Tuning, do you like tuning your car?
For both cars, you have many options to choose from, both in terms of exterior and performance wise. In terms of performance gain, with both cars being NA engines and you keep your modding path in keeping them NA, it seems the C63 could squeeze more power out compare to the M. You could easily squeeze 50-60 hp out of the C63 with tune and intake and exhaust but it will be difficult to squeeze the same amount out of the M. Having said that, the sound of a V10 engine with an exhaust mod is no doubt the best I've heard. If I am to sell my M, I will missed the exhaust sound the most. Transmission wise, I have to admit that the C63 is a smoother ride, too smooth that you tend to treat it as an automatic transmission. The SMG on the otherhand, has the real characteristics of a manual shift. I lean towards the SMG it keeps reminding me that not only I have to handle the steering wheel but also keeping the right shift point in order for the car to perform how it should. It does however, run into more problems than the tranny in teh C63.
How much does the interior design weighs on you?
This is really a matter of preference. I prefer the M as everything is more refine compare to the C63. The C has in general more "plastic" feel compare to the M. Given that the C series targets a different market sector than the 5 series, it is understandable. However, if you look at the E63, being it's "real" competitor, the E63 definitely gets my vote.
At the end of the day, both cars have it's pros and cons, if I am you, regardless of the resale value etc...I would jump into the C63 right away not because it is "better" than the M but because I have already owned an M5 and it's time for a new "toy" in time for Christmas!
12-16-2011, 02:31 AM
#42
Super Member
Thread Starter
I own both of the cars and in my opinion, there are a few deciding factors. I would give a few comment on each but please try not to penalize my english as I am not a native speaker. :P
Do you always carry passengers? How big are you?
Obviously, the M has more room both at the front and at the back. The M has one of the most comfortable front seat I ever sat in, not to mention the numerous adjustments you could have. The "active" side support (sorry forgot the name) is a real plus. At the back, the M does not look as if it has a lot of leg room, not enough to justify the size of the car anyways. However, if you would actually sat in the car, it's suprisingly comfortable. It seems that you actuallly "sink" into the car. The 63 front seat provides a lot of support and tugs you in real tight (I'm 180cm, 200lbs) If you are bigger than me, than you may find it a bit too tight. At the rear, I would find the seats are a big on the hard side. Although it matches well with the overall sporty design of the car.
Do you do a lot of city driving?
If you do, then you will appreciate the 63. The amount of torqe it puts out will put a smile on your face. The easiness in switching lanes and taking over cars are the things I love about my 63. The M will also do the job but if you are only cruising, you will need to drop 2 gears before making such move. If you do a lot of high way driving, you may prefer the M as the torque it gives out at the high rev range is irreplaceble! I FELT, (not necessary true in terms of performance) the 63 reaches the peak torque very quickly and stays there throughout the rev range but the M's torque progressively increases together with the rev. So, where do you drive and what kind of characteristics do you prefer?
Tuning, do you like tuning your car?
For both cars, you have many options to choose from, both in terms of exterior and performance wise. In terms of performance gain, with both cars being NA engines and you keep your modding path in keeping them NA, it seems the C63 could squeeze more power out compare to the M. You could easily squeeze 50-60 hp out of the C63 with tune and intake and exhaust but it will be difficult to squeeze the same amount out of the M. Having said that, the sound of a V10 engine with an exhaust mod is no doubt the best I've heard. If I am to sell my M, I will missed the exhaust sound the most. Transmission wise, I have to admit that the C63 is a smoother ride, too smooth that you tend to treat it as an automatic transmission. The SMG on the otherhand, has the real characteristics of a manual shift. I lean towards the SMG it keeps reminding me that not only I have to handle the steering wheel but also keeping the right shift point in order for the car to perform how it should. It does however, run into more problems than the tranny in teh C63.
How much does the interior design weighs on you?
This is really a matter of preference. I prefer the M as everything is more refine compare to the C63. The C has in general more "plastic" feel compare to the M. Given that the C series targets a different market sector than the 5 series, it is understandable. However, if you look at the E63, being it's "real" competitor, the E63 definitely gets my vote.
At the end of the day, both cars have it's pros and cons, if I am you, regardless of the resale value etc...I would jump into the C63 right away not because it is "better" than the M but because I have already owned an M5 and it's time for a new "toy" in time for Christmas!
Do you always carry passengers? How big are you?
Obviously, the M has more room both at the front and at the back. The M has one of the most comfortable front seat I ever sat in, not to mention the numerous adjustments you could have. The "active" side support (sorry forgot the name) is a real plus. At the back, the M does not look as if it has a lot of leg room, not enough to justify the size of the car anyways. However, if you would actually sat in the car, it's suprisingly comfortable. It seems that you actuallly "sink" into the car. The 63 front seat provides a lot of support and tugs you in real tight (I'm 180cm, 200lbs) If you are bigger than me, than you may find it a bit too tight. At the rear, I would find the seats are a big on the hard side. Although it matches well with the overall sporty design of the car.
Do you do a lot of city driving?
If you do, then you will appreciate the 63. The amount of torqe it puts out will put a smile on your face. The easiness in switching lanes and taking over cars are the things I love about my 63. The M will also do the job but if you are only cruising, you will need to drop 2 gears before making such move. If you do a lot of high way driving, you may prefer the M as the torque it gives out at the high rev range is irreplaceble! I FELT, (not necessary true in terms of performance) the 63 reaches the peak torque very quickly and stays there throughout the rev range but the M's torque progressively increases together with the rev. So, where do you drive and what kind of characteristics do you prefer?
Tuning, do you like tuning your car?
For both cars, you have many options to choose from, both in terms of exterior and performance wise. In terms of performance gain, with both cars being NA engines and you keep your modding path in keeping them NA, it seems the C63 could squeeze more power out compare to the M. You could easily squeeze 50-60 hp out of the C63 with tune and intake and exhaust but it will be difficult to squeeze the same amount out of the M. Having said that, the sound of a V10 engine with an exhaust mod is no doubt the best I've heard. If I am to sell my M, I will missed the exhaust sound the most. Transmission wise, I have to admit that the C63 is a smoother ride, too smooth that you tend to treat it as an automatic transmission. The SMG on the otherhand, has the real characteristics of a manual shift. I lean towards the SMG it keeps reminding me that not only I have to handle the steering wheel but also keeping the right shift point in order for the car to perform how it should. It does however, run into more problems than the tranny in teh C63.
How much does the interior design weighs on you?
This is really a matter of preference. I prefer the M as everything is more refine compare to the C63. The C has in general more "plastic" feel compare to the M. Given that the C series targets a different market sector than the 5 series, it is understandable. However, if you look at the E63, being it's "real" competitor, the E63 definitely gets my vote.
At the end of the day, both cars have it's pros and cons, if I am you, regardless of the resale value etc...I would jump into the C63 right away not because it is "better" than the M but because I have already owned an M5 and it's time for a new "toy" in time for Christmas!
you must not have read my opening post though .. did you know that i already have the M5?
so i already knew all the things you said about it...
but i agree with you on all points on the m5. you described it right.
as far as interior styling, id say the 2012 c63 is about on par (or pretty close)with the E6o M5. given that the 5 series is a step up, but at the same time a 5-6 year older design. the 2012 c63 interior is all new. and its beautiful
the only thing i will miss is the alcantara headliner on my M5. it feels like the fur of an exotic animal. - as classy as classy gets... and i dont believe its available on the C lass.
and your questions...
no i dont do much highway driving (dont want to put too many miles on it)
yes i do alot of city driving.
and no i dont care about the back seat room, and dont intend to carry passengers in the back. (and if i did im not overly concerned about their comfort.
)thanks
12-16-2011, 05:45 AM
#43
Senior Member
I don't know if you can get the Eurocharged tune in Canada, but certainly visit the Eurocharged website.
12-16-2011, 05:53 AM
#44
Senior Member
Stock
Eurocharged
Peak Power (bhp)
451
540
Peak Torque (lb-ft)
443
494
Speed Limiter *(mph)
155
200+
If those numbers stand true then even with the p31 it's a 60hp gain and 51 torque gain.
Please read this if you are worried about warranty:
http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm
12-16-2011, 04:26 PM
#45
Super Member
Thread Starter
The tune shouldn't affect the warranty in a p31 car any more than a "regular" c63. Mine has the development package, and I felt a significant difference (especially torque) after the tune. Eurocharged numbers after tune according to website are:
Stock
Eurocharged
Peak Power (bhp)
451
540
Peak Torque (lb-ft)
443
494
Speed Limiter *(mph)
155
200+
Stock
Eurocharged
Peak Power (bhp)
451
540
Peak Torque (lb-ft)
443
494
Speed Limiter *(mph)
155
200+
see,s like an awful huge loss from crank to wheels?? 540 hp, and only putting 397 to the wheels? is that normal?
this is the reg c63 with 451 hp; so would the p31 car make more with the tune?
12-16-2011, 05:42 PM
#46
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2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
Yes that is an indicated loss from the drive train of 26%. The figure that is used by most tuners is 18% but that is on a dynojet not a dyno dymamics. The 540 FWHP figure is thus exaggerated. It does show a gain of 397 - 332 = 65 RWHP which does seem like a fair representation.
The P31 might make marginally more with a tune but unless you race it is likely not worth it and you potentially have to give up your warranty for it as well.
12-16-2011, 07:41 PM
#48
12-16-2011, 07:43 PM
#49
Super Member
Thread Starter
