M156 head bolt problems
01-29-2013, 10:33 PM
#251
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yes, I've seen that...but that was almost 18 months ago!!!
I was looking for the CURRENT situation.....I mean, what is the CURRENT situation?......if there's no news at all, in all this time, then maybe this "case" went nowhere?
That's why I was asking, does anyone know what's happening NOW?
Thanks for your reply, Pickles.
I was looking for the CURRENT situation.....I mean, what is the CURRENT situation?......if there's no news at all, in all this time, then maybe this "case" went nowhere?
That's why I was asking, does anyone know what's happening NOW?
Thanks for your reply, Pickles.
01-29-2013, 10:33 PM
#252
MBWorld Fanatic!
^This is a headbolt failure sticky thread. Why are you confusing it by asking info regarding a class action for another engine component...maybe ask in the appropriate thread?
01-29-2013, 11:00 PM
#253
Yes, I've seen that...but that was almost 18 months ago!!!
I was looking for the CURRENT situation.....I mean, what is the CURRENT situation?......if there's no news at all, in all this time, then maybe this "case" went nowhere?
That's why I was asking, does anyone know what's happening NOW?
Thanks for your reply, Pickles.
I was looking for the CURRENT situation.....I mean, what is the CURRENT situation?......if there's no news at all, in all this time, then maybe this "case" went nowhere?
That's why I was asking, does anyone know what's happening NOW?
Thanks for your reply, Pickles.
The class action is still in the pleadings phase...
Defendants filed motions to dismiss and a motion to strike in April, 2012. The court considered the motions and in light of a recent Third Circuit (US Court of Appeals) opinion, the court, on August 14, 2012 ordered the plaintiffs to submit supplemental briefing as to why the Court should not strike the class allegations in accordance with the Third Circuit’s recent and precedential Opinion. The court further ordered the defendants may file a reply to plaintiff's supplemental briefs. The supplemental briefs and any reply briefs are due later this month (September, 2012).
At issue is whether the plaintiff's amended complaint is too broad because it is written to include all owners/lessees of 2007-2011 models equipped with M156 engines and not limited to owners who's vehicles have experienced an alleged defect. The plaintiff's acknowledge that many such owners' vehicles have never experienced the defect [or more specifically effects of the alleged defect].
The Third Circuits precedential opinion holds that lead plaintiff's in a class action must show that a common class-wide defect caused the class members damages. At issue before the Third Circuit was a class action where it was alleged that vehicles' tires would go flat and need replacement. The Third Circuit held that it was abuse of discretion for the district court to find that a lead plaintiff in a class action could show that a common class-wide defect caused the class members damages without individual proofs. The Third Circuit noted the importance of causation. They mentioned that any tire can go flat for reasons unrelated to design defects in the tires.
But, because plaintiff's allege that the defects in the engine are in the design and manufacture of the parts, the design defect covers all parts manufactured according to the design. Plaintiff's further contend they must be given an opportunity to prove the alleged defects in the complaint.
The presiding district court appears to have ordered the plaintiffs to file supplemental briefs as to why the court should not strike the class allegations in light of the Third Circuits precedential opinion.
This case (Chan v. MB) is very interesting because the damage to the M156 engines that plaintiff alleges is caused by the design defects would seem more specific than the facts involving tires going flat and needing replacement in the case that was the subject of the Third Circuit's opinion.
01-29-2013, 11:54 PM
#254
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Thanks mate...I've read that too...very well written......so, I wonder what happened after September 2012 when those "Supplemental Briefs" were to be submitted & considered?
That's the question I'm asking I suppose....what was the result of those "briefs", did they make any difference, and where is this case at the moment?
Regards, Pickles.
That's the question I'm asking I suppose....what was the result of those "briefs", did they make any difference, and where is this case at the moment?
Regards, Pickles.
01-31-2013, 03:42 AM
#255
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Porsche 911 Turbo S 2014! E63S 14, Audi S8 13, CLS63 12, E550 12, C63 09, all tuned
Replace one bolt at a time?
Can someone tell me why replacing one bolt ata time would not work???
This would be cheapest solution.
This would be cheapest solution.
02-01-2013, 01:29 PM
#256
Thanks mate...I've read that too...very well written......so, I wonder what happened after September 2012 when those "Supplemental Briefs" were to be submitted & considered?
That's the question I'm asking I suppose....what was the result of those "briefs", did they make any difference, and where is this case at the moment?
Regards, Pickles.
That's the question I'm asking I suppose....what was the result of those "briefs", did they make any difference, and where is this case at the moment?
Regards, Pickles.
The Court dismissed plaintiffs' first amended complaint for lack of standing. Plaintiffs were given 30 days to file another amended complaint. But, the time passed and no new filings were made.
I've been waiting to see if plaintiffs would amend their complaint. But, it never came to pass.
There were several reasons the Court stated for their finding of lack of standing. Most notably, the court relied on case law from multiple states, including California, that holds manufacturers are not responsible for latent defects that fail after the expiration of an express warranty period, even if the defects were known at the time of sale.
The Court reasoned that all latent defects arise during the warranty period and it would render the *in this case* time/mileage warranty period meaningless if it essentially never expired. So long as the manufacturer repairs or replaces defective parts during the warranty period, the manufacturer is performing under the warranty. The Court did not distinguish between latent defects that are known by the manufacturer at the time of sale and latent defects that become known for the first time after the express warranty term expires.
02-01-2013, 01:55 PM
#257
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08' E63, 12' Escalade
Update
Hi all -
I just wanted to post an update on my situation. Ive held off for a few days on this because I didnt want to jinx anything before it was actually done and finished, but I think it may be safe enough to do so now.
To briefly recap, my 08' E63 (M156 engine) stopped running and I was afraid it was due to an issue that may be a recurring issue with these cars. My car has 54K on it, and is 6 months out of warranty, so I feared the worst in a total engine failure. I took it into the local Mercedes dealer last week (flat bedded, and not starting), just hoping for the best. They called a few days later and said they think it was a head bolt failure/ and or stuck open fuel injector(s), and they were able to get Mercedes to fully cover the initial attempt at repairs which included a starter, 8 fuel injectors, O2 sensor, plugs, and a few other parts that I cant recall but I think fuel rails, and maybe heads(?). I cant recall exactly because I was just so ecstatic at the time that I didnt hear everything except "Mercedes was going to cover it".
They said they would try that first, but wouldnt know if there was any internal damage done or not until they got in there to do it.
Well, I crossed my fingers again, but felt a bit more relief than when I brought it in to them, cautiously thinking that if they were willing to cover that much, then they probably would cover (at least in part) anything else that may need fixed/replaced.
They called this afternoon and said it is all fixed up, and they were going to deliver it directly to my door this evening.. I was/am on cloud 9, and cant wait to get my baby back!
I still have to actually drive it and make sure it is in fact "right", but I cant see them bringing it back if it wasnt . So at this point I want to give kudos to Mercedes and their customer service, especially for going above and beyond in this situation (even if it was a know problem by them across the M156 band of engines, they at least did the right thing in this case).
When I get it back and test it out I will update on everything, including the work performed and parts replaced.. Im a happy fella right now!
I just wanted to post an update on my situation. Ive held off for a few days on this because I didnt want to jinx anything before it was actually done and finished, but I think it may be safe enough to do so now.
To briefly recap, my 08' E63 (M156 engine) stopped running and I was afraid it was due to an issue that may be a recurring issue with these cars. My car has 54K on it, and is 6 months out of warranty, so I feared the worst in a total engine failure. I took it into the local Mercedes dealer last week (flat bedded, and not starting), just hoping for the best. They called a few days later and said they think it was a head bolt failure/ and or stuck open fuel injector(s), and they were able to get Mercedes to fully cover the initial attempt at repairs which included a starter, 8 fuel injectors, O2 sensor, plugs, and a few other parts that I cant recall but I think fuel rails, and maybe heads(?). I cant recall exactly because I was just so ecstatic at the time that I didnt hear everything except "Mercedes was going to cover it".
They said they would try that first, but wouldnt know if there was any internal damage done or not until they got in there to do it.Well, I crossed my fingers again, but felt a bit more relief than when I brought it in to them, cautiously thinking that if they were willing to cover that much, then they probably would cover (at least in part) anything else that may need fixed/replaced.
They called this afternoon and said it is all fixed up, and they were going to deliver it directly to my door this evening.. I was/am on cloud 9, and cant wait to get my baby back!
I still have to actually drive it and make sure it is in fact "right", but I cant see them bringing it back if it wasnt . So at this point I want to give kudos to Mercedes and their customer service, especially for going above and beyond in this situation (even if it was a know problem by them across the M156 band of engines, they at least did the right thing in this case). When I get it back and test it out I will update on everything, including the work performed and parts replaced.. Im a happy fella right now!
02-01-2013, 05:32 PM
#258
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Case (Chan v. MB) is closed as of 1/07/13.
The Court dismissed plaintiffs' first amended complaint for lack of standing. Plaintiffs were given 30 days to file another amended complaint. But, the time passed and no new filings were made.
I've been waiting to see if plaintiffs would amend their complaint. But, it never came to pass.
There were several reasons the Court stated for their finding of lack of standing. Most notably, the court relied on case law from multiple states, including California, that holds manufacturers are not responsible for latent defects that fail after the expiration of an express warranty period, even if the defects were known at the time of sale.
The Court reasoned that all latent defects arise during the warranty period and it would render the *in this case* time/mileage warranty period meaningless if it essentially never expired. So long as the manufacturer repairs or replaces defective parts during the warranty period, the manufacturer is performing under the warranty. The Court did not distinguish between latent defects that are known by the manufacturer at the time of sale and latent defects that become known for the first time after the express warranty term expires.
The Court dismissed plaintiffs' first amended complaint for lack of standing. Plaintiffs were given 30 days to file another amended complaint. But, the time passed and no new filings were made.
I've been waiting to see if plaintiffs would amend their complaint. But, it never came to pass.
There were several reasons the Court stated for their finding of lack of standing. Most notably, the court relied on case law from multiple states, including California, that holds manufacturers are not responsible for latent defects that fail after the expiration of an express warranty period, even if the defects were known at the time of sale.
The Court reasoned that all latent defects arise during the warranty period and it would render the *in this case* time/mileage warranty period meaningless if it essentially never expired. So long as the manufacturer repairs or replaces defective parts during the warranty period, the manufacturer is performing under the warranty. The Court did not distinguish between latent defects that are known by the manufacturer at the time of sale and latent defects that become known for the first time after the express warranty term expires.
Cheers, Pickles.
02-02-2013, 01:52 PM
#259
Mate, I have seen you commenting on this "issue" many times.
I have also asked the question about the so called "class action"...ie, what is going on, what is the up to date situation, is there indeed ANY class action happening at all, or is it just a big "beat Up"?
I only ask the question, because I asked a month or so ago whether anyone had any info on the "class action"........NO-ONE relplied!!!!....So, maybe it's all "myth & hearsay"?
So, as you've made several comments on the issue, I thought you may know some FACTS?
Cheers, Pickles.
I have also asked the question about the so called "class action"...ie, what is going on, what is the up to date situation, is there indeed ANY class action happening at all, or is it just a big "beat Up"?
I only ask the question, because I asked a month or so ago whether anyone had any info on the "class action"........NO-ONE relplied!!!!....So, maybe it's all "myth & hearsay"?
So, as you've made several comments on the issue, I thought you may know some FACTS?
Cheers, Pickles.
02-02-2013, 03:51 PM
#260
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So now you are up to date. NO ONE here ever said there was a class action on the headbolt issue. You evidently read about the other (real) M156 class action issue so you should have been able to answer your own questions. I look forward to your next (first?) factual submissions to this forum but I'm not holding my breath.
Anyway, I guess we now know that the valve gear issue did not proceed?
I see I've got around 800 posts to catch up to your "factual?" submissions....but I'll do my best.
Cheers, Pickles.
Last edited by Pickles; 02-03-2013 at 12:21 AM.
02-02-2013, 05:04 PM
#261
MBWorld Fanatic!
Hi all -
I just wanted to post an update on my situation. Ive held off for a few days on this because I didnt want to jinx anything before it was actually done and finished, but I think it may be safe enough to do so now.
To briefly recap, my 08' E63 (M156 engine) stopped running and I was afraid it was due to an issue that may be a recurring issue with these cars. My car has 54K on it, and is 6 months out of warranty, so I feared the worst in a total engine failure. I took it into the local Mercedes dealer last week (flat bedded, and not starting), just hoping for the best. They called a few days later and said they think it was a head bolt failure/ and or stuck open fuel injector(s), and they were able to get Mercedes to fully cover the initial attempt at repairs which included a starter, 8 fuel injectors, O2 sensor, plugs, and a few other parts that I cant recall but I think fuel rails, and maybe heads(?). I cant recall exactly because I was just so ecstatic at the time that I didnt hear everything except "Mercedes was going to cover it". They said they would try that first, but wouldnt know if there was any internal damage done or not until they got in there to do it.
Well, I crossed my fingers again, but felt a bit more relief than when I brought it in to them, cautiously thinking that if they were willing to cover that much, then they probably would cover (at least in part) anything else that may need fixed/replaced.
They called this afternoon and said it is all fixed up, and they were going to deliver it directly to my door this evening.. I was/am on cloud 9, and cant wait to get my baby back! I still have to actually drive it and make sure it is in fact "right", but I cant see them bringing it back if it wasnt . So at this point I want to give kudos to Mercedes and their customer service, especially for going above and beyond in this situation (even if it was a know problem by them across the M156 band of engines, they at least did the right thing in this case).
When I get it back and test it out I will update on everything, including the work performed and parts replaced.. Im a happy fella right now!
I just wanted to post an update on my situation. Ive held off for a few days on this because I didnt want to jinx anything before it was actually done and finished, but I think it may be safe enough to do so now.
To briefly recap, my 08' E63 (M156 engine) stopped running and I was afraid it was due to an issue that may be a recurring issue with these cars. My car has 54K on it, and is 6 months out of warranty, so I feared the worst in a total engine failure. I took it into the local Mercedes dealer last week (flat bedded, and not starting), just hoping for the best. They called a few days later and said they think it was a head bolt failure/ and or stuck open fuel injector(s), and they were able to get Mercedes to fully cover the initial attempt at repairs which included a starter, 8 fuel injectors, O2 sensor, plugs, and a few other parts that I cant recall but I think fuel rails, and maybe heads(?). I cant recall exactly because I was just so ecstatic at the time that I didnt hear everything except "Mercedes was going to cover it".
They said they would try that first, but wouldnt know if there was any internal damage done or not until they got in there to do it.Well, I crossed my fingers again, but felt a bit more relief than when I brought it in to them, cautiously thinking that if they were willing to cover that much, then they probably would cover (at least in part) anything else that may need fixed/replaced.
They called this afternoon and said it is all fixed up, and they were going to deliver it directly to my door this evening.. I was/am on cloud 9, and cant wait to get my baby back!
I still have to actually drive it and make sure it is in fact "right", but I cant see them bringing it back if it wasnt . So at this point I want to give kudos to Mercedes and their customer service, especially for going above and beyond in this situation (even if it was a know problem by them across the M156 band of engines, they at least did the right thing in this case). When I get it back and test it out I will update on everything, including the work performed and parts replaced.. Im a happy fella right now!
Keep us posted and let us know if you really didn't have to pay a cent out of your pocket.
02-02-2013, 08:15 PM
#262
Member
Wow, so they are covering the problem even when out of warranty. That's a first, I believe. I hope MB has adopted that policy for failed headbolts for all M156 engines. Hmm, maybe I should take my chance on keeping my car beyond warranty. Then if the headbolt fails and no dealers around here are willing to help, then I'll head over to where you're at...Pittsburgh!...400miles from where I'm at....that's not too bad.
Keep us posted and let us know if you really didn't have to pay a cent out of your pocket.
Keep us posted and let us know if you really didn't have to pay a cent out of your pocket.
02-04-2013, 01:00 AM
#263
Just wanted to fill in everyone here especially in AUSTRALIA about the headbolt issue.
I dropped my car in for a service recently and spoke to a senior service manager who was quite friendly and open about the headbolt issue.
He said that he had seen a few 63 Engines with the headbolt issue in to be repaired *just wanted to say this is not the main MB dealer in Sydney*
He said in all cases out of warranty that the most anybody had paid on there side was roughly 3,500AUD and most total costs were around 10-15k for rectification.
Just thought i'd share to let everyone know what the situation is for this in Australia.
Cheers
I dropped my car in for a service recently and spoke to a senior service manager who was quite friendly and open about the headbolt issue.
He said that he had seen a few 63 Engines with the headbolt issue in to be repaired *just wanted to say this is not the main MB dealer in Sydney*
He said in all cases out of warranty that the most anybody had paid on there side was roughly 3,500AUD and most total costs were around 10-15k for rectification.
Just thought i'd share to let everyone know what the situation is for this in Australia.
Cheers
02-04-2013, 05:29 PM
#265
MBWorld Fanatic!
That's good info, C63sydney.
I thought I read somewhere that MB Australia has openly admitted to the M156 headbolts being a problem. I wonder if that makes them honoring all repairs related to that issue regardless of warranty. That will definitely bring confidence for MB's customers there in Australia. Hopefully, MBUSA is also doing the same.
I thought I read somewhere that MB Australia has openly admitted to the M156 headbolts being a problem. I wonder if that makes them honoring all repairs related to that issue regardless of warranty. That will definitely bring confidence for MB's customers there in Australia. Hopefully, MBUSA is also doing the same.
02-11-2013, 10:15 AM
#266
MBWorld Fanatic!
Potential candidate here or possibly a false alarm. Got home yesterday after an hour or so highway dive. When I fired her up a couple hours later it felt like only 5-6 cylinders were firing. It cleared up after a few seconds and a restart was fine.
Checked my coolant level this morning and it's about 1/2" lower than it has been. Although when I previously checked it the engine was warmer than being dead cold this morning which could explain the lower level. No issues starting either.
Either way I'm under warranty and I'm going to abuse this thing until it blows.
Checked my coolant level this morning and it's about 1/2" lower than it has been. Although when I previously checked it the engine was warmer than being dead cold this morning which could explain the lower level. No issues starting either.
Either way I'm under warranty and I'm going to abuse this thing until it blows.
02-11-2013, 04:34 PM
#267
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My car smokes in cold start.
My mechanic said it could be the valve seals not good.
If MB fix under warranty would they replace the head bolts?
Called Penske of West Covina and the SA never heard about the headbolt issue.
My mechanic said it could be the valve seals not good.
If MB fix under warranty would they replace the head bolts?
Called Penske of West Covina and the SA never heard about the headbolt issue.
(
02-13-2013, 09:23 PM
#269
My local dealer JUST heard of the head bolt issue now.. I swear these guys are clueless half the time...
02-13-2013, 10:57 PM
#271
Member
There is absolutely zero reason for a service advisor to know about the head bolts. Most technicians do not know about it. On the dealer level, unless your a car guy (like everyone here) or ran into the problem before, you will not know about it.
BTW ELO168, if it is just a little bit of blue smoke once in a while when you first start your car, this is completely normal. If it is white smoke every time you start your car and your coolant is low, pay me a visit in Vegas and I'll take care of your head bolts for you.
BTW ELO168, if it is just a little bit of blue smoke once in a while when you first start your car, this is completely normal. If it is white smoke every time you start your car and your coolant is low, pay me a visit in Vegas and I'll take care of your head bolts for you.
03-06-2013, 02:41 PM
#272
Member
It would be interesting to see how many % of the cars made that has actually had the bolt failure.
Ive talked to Sweden largest MB dealer and they have just had one car with this issue! Of a few hundred sold cars in affected years.
Had a talk with Kleemann in Danmark as well and they have had a few but not something that was common and told me not to worry.
So even for us with 2008-2009-2010 cars I dont think we should be TO worried. I can happend but it doesnt have to.
Hopefully ;-)
Ive talked to Sweden largest MB dealer and they have just had one car with this issue! Of a few hundred sold cars in affected years.
Had a talk with Kleemann in Danmark as well and they have had a few but not something that was common and told me not to worry.
So even for us with 2008-2009-2010 cars I dont think we should be TO worried. I can happend but it doesnt have to.
Hopefully ;-)
03-06-2013, 03:58 PM
#273
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There is absolutely zero reason for a service advisor to know about the head bolts. Most technicians do not know about it. On the dealer level, unless your a car guy (like everyone here) or ran into the problem before, you will not know about it.
BTW ELO168, if it is just a little bit of blue smoke once in a while when you first start your car, this is completely normal. If it is white smoke every time you start your car and your coolant is low, pay me a visit in Vegas and I'll take care of your head bolts for you.
BTW ELO168, if it is just a little bit of blue smoke once in a while when you first start your car, this is completely normal. If it is white smoke every time you start your car and your coolant is low, pay me a visit in Vegas and I'll take care of your head bolts for you.
How long would it take for you to do the headbolt if needed?
03-06-2013, 03:59 PM
#274
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Hej Yamdan
Jag ar fran Sverige(Malmo) men bor i Los Angeles nu.
Vi hors
Jag ar fran Sverige(Malmo) men bor i Los Angeles nu.
Vi hors
It would be interesting to see how many % of the cars made that has actually had the bolt failure.
Ive talked to Sweden largest MB dealer and they have just had one car with this issue! Of a few hundred sold cars in affected years.
Had a talk with Kleemann in Danmark as well and they have had a few but not something that was common and told me not to worry.
So even for us with 2008-2009-2010 cars I dont think we should be TO worried. I can happend but it doesnt have to.
Hopefully ;-)
Ive talked to Sweden largest MB dealer and they have just had one car with this issue! Of a few hundred sold cars in affected years.
Had a talk with Kleemann in Danmark as well and they have had a few but not something that was common and told me not to worry.
So even for us with 2008-2009-2010 cars I dont think we should be TO worried. I can happend but it doesnt have to.
Hopefully ;-)
03-06-2013, 05:02 PM
#275
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If I come up to Vegas, can you provide with loaner car back to L.A for me?
There is absolutely zero reason for a service advisor to know about the head bolts. Most technicians do not know about it. On the dealer level, unless your a car guy (like everyone here) or ran into the problem before, you will not know about it.
BTW ELO168, if it is just a little bit of blue smoke once in a while when you first start your car, this is completely normal. If it is white smoke every time you start your car and your coolant is low, pay me a visit in Vegas and I'll take care of your head bolts for you.
BTW ELO168, if it is just a little bit of blue smoke once in a while when you first start your car, this is completely normal. If it is white smoke every time you start your car and your coolant is low, pay me a visit in Vegas and I'll take care of your head bolts for you.
