4ramin

thanks buddy, we shall soon see after all the time and money i put into it if she holds together lol

rbrooks027

My 08' E63 was just diagnosed with the dreaded head bolt failure. My engine hydro locked and I am awaiting a decision from the Mercedes dealer (I am out of warranty with 53k on it, and 6 months over).
My question is for Mrtazzy: if Mercedes is unwilling to do anything for me, would you be able to recommend anyone in the states to do the type of repairs you so thoroughly did, and around the same price? I'm in the Ohio/Pa area, but willing to pay to have it taken somewhere within a few hundred miles or so... You can PM me if you prefer that way. Thank you for any help you can give me... I'm really bummed out about this with it being my first Mercedes....

bhamg

rbrooks - sorry to hear of your misfortune. Would you be so kind as to start your own thread in this forum? It'll help us to track this issue better and you'll have a better chance of getting helpful responses considering your post-warranty situation. Thanks!

DuaneC63

Extremely sorry to hear of your misfortune. Chances are MBZUSA will pay for a large part of this repair, but you will have to push the issue. Have they torn the engine down to see if you have any internal damage (bent rods etc)? Hopefully you will not have to resort to an indy repair source as the amount of damage from hydrolock could render your engine beyond repair. In this case you're better off looking for a used motor then doing the updates to the motor while its out of the car. I would suggest head studs instead of bolts and use the updated lifters from the SLS63 motor.

Jonny Nitro

Good luck Rbrooks. Sorry to hear the bad news. Too bad you are not closer to Mr. Tazzy.

Let us know how it works out.

GeorgeSmooth

You are right. I put mine back in with the transmission on with LTH bolted on.

Excuse the small mod on the top.

Jonny Nitro

WOW!

Karl901

Can someone tell me, why replacing one bolt at a time would not work???
Cheapest way?

Higgs Boson

https://mbworld.org/forums/5527437-post20.html

jvanbrecht

Since you have had the engine out.. without removing the entire front end/bumper, if I just remove the upper grill, would I have access to the belts (mines due to replacement soon, would rather do it myself, but the space is really tight in there if you don't remove everything )

GeorgeSmooth

There is a whole lot of radiators and condenser behind the grill. Will post a pic . So you going to have to battle or take it to a gyni

Merc63

You really think taking out one bolt is going to move the head or wreck the seal when there is 9 more bolts with an enormous amount of clamping force??

I highly doubt it.

otakki

I think so, too. The explanation against it just doesn't seem very convincing.

Higgs Boson

how many times have you tried it? how many engines have you rebuilt? how many times have you balanced and blueprinted an engine to strict racing specifications for a car that you drive and rely on to be consistent and win races?
10? 20? 30 times? ask me how many times I have.

you can highly doubt whatever you want, it doesn't change reality. I can highly doubt the law of gravity. but I'll let you test it.

where do people come up with this stuff?

newbie: hey I got a question since I don't know anything yet but I want to learn.
highly experienced veteran: ......answer......
newbie: hmmm. that doesn't sound right.

lol.

Shifter

That would be the biggest hack job ever on a AMG! Would not attempt such a half a$$repair. Not good in long run.

Merc63

Ive worked in an engine shop and have seen this technique used first hand. Ask a mechanic, it can be done like this.

There are 9 other head bolts holding the head down with a tremendous amount of clamping force. The head and the seal aren't going anywhere because you took 1 of 10 bolts out.

Ive had the head gasket develop a leak from getting too hot on the bike. Simply retorque the bolt back down and the leak is gone.

You guys think because its an AMG its some special technology that no one has ever seen before lol.. Do a search online, lots of guys of done this method before, its nothing new!

GermanCars

It really is a valid question. Back in the day-before stretch bolts (Pre1979), it was a common service procedure to loosen and retorque the head bolts on both BMW and some water cooled Porsche engines. After many heat cycles, the head gaskets would compress a bit, usually causing oil seepage issues. During BMW valve adjustments we would always run a torque wrench around all the head bolts. Porsche even came out with a TSB for the early 924 engine spelling out the procedure. Cold engine, one a time-loosening a 1/2 turn and then retorquing, etc.
Later head bolts made out of different materials were supposed to make this unnecessary. The new head bolts were/are able to maintain nearly the same clamping force at a range of temperatures and not relax pressure on the head gasket when the engine cools.
It is a real drag that the O.E. head bolts were designed with a weakness. That being said, if I owned a 2008-2010 6.2L which wasn't covered by a warranty and there was not yet evidence of a problem, I would seriously consider replacing the head bolts with the updated O.E. parts. Yes, one at a time. I would do it on a cold engine with the coolant drained as an extra precaution.
Just one ASE Master Tech's opinion.

Higgs Boson

has nothing to do with being an amg

can it be done? sure. is it the right way? no.

sounds like a great way to charge 15 hours of labor while doing 2..... most of the master techs I know are master of....."efficiency."

not saying you are, I don't know you. I'm just saying.....in general.

Merc63

Higgs and Shifter = FAIL.

Higgs Boson

do you have any actual information to post or just more opinion?

Merc63

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...8IGc6lF3EudDjQ

Replacing with ARP Studs ONE AT A TIME.

This has been going on for a long time. Im surprised a master engine builder like yourself isn't aware of it...

Higgs Boson

arp head studs are not stock amg head bolts last time I checked. and like I said, it can certainly be done. it is not however, the right way, and I would not want to provide a warranty for the work when it is not done the right way. head studs are very different from bolts.

at the end of the day you can do whatever you want to your car. I am sure you have seen the tacky things people do, like green brake calipers or painting random items black,etc. do what you want, nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't do it for you.

I have replaced bolts with head studs before one at a time on other engines, however, not many engines out there have the replacement cost of an amg 6.3, and those engines did not have a known defect surrounding these parts, they we not under warranty, the work was not performed for someone else, and the application necessitated studs (ie high hp).

btw your link was dead for me, but I am on an ipad so I'll look again later.

GermanCars

[quote=Higgs Boson;5528343]has nothing to do with being an amg



can it be done? sure. is it the right way? no.

sounds like a great way to charge 15 hours of labor while doing 2..... most of the master techs I know are master of....."efficiency."

not saying you are, I don't know you. I'm just saying.....in general.

"oh really? what do you do for a living that qualifies you to make this or any of your statements?"
Quote from one of your previous posts...


No, you don't know me.

Why must some people on this forum, when they do not share an opinion with the poster, call into question their integrity and/or honesty?

I have followed the head bolt issue for over a year on these forums, and spoken to more than one dealership tech about what they are seeing. My subsequent suggestion is based on 38 years of street, performance, and race experience.

I personally don't give a rat's *** what you think of my opinion, my qualifications, ASE tech's or whatever. I was merely suggesting that others on this forum who do not agree with you may have a valid point.

Mercedes in general, and in particular AMG products, are generally impressively engineered machines. They are however designed by humans, with many competing forces requiring the designer to make decisions that occasionally do not prove to pass the test of time. I spend a good part of my day dealing with these situations. And try to work out the most palatable solution for the customer.
We just spent a good part of two days flushing out the secondary air injection ports in a BMW V8 to try to avoid doing what the dealer recommended, replace both cylinder heads. Do not even start with 15 hour jobs done in 2 hours.......

rbrooks027

Hi all -

I just wanted to post an update on my situation. Ive held off for a few days on this because I didnt want to jinx anything before it was actually done and finished, but I think it may be safe enough to do so now.
To briefly recap, my 08' E63 (M156 engine) stopped running and I was afraid it was due to an issue that may be a recurring issue with these cars. My car has 54K on it, and is 6 months out of warranty, so I feared the worst in a total engine failure. I took it into the local Mercedes dealer last week (flat bedded, and not starting), just hoping for the best. They called a few days later and said they think it was a head bolt failure/ and or stuck open fuel injector(s), and they were able to get Mercedes to fully cover the initial attempt at repairs which included a starter, 8 fuel injectors, O2 sensor, plugs, and a few other parts that I cant recall but I think fuel rails, and maybe heads(?). I cant recall exactly because I was just so ecstatic at the time that I didnt hear everything except "Mercedes was going to cover it". They said they would try that first, but wouldnt know if there was any internal damage done or not until they got in there to do it.
Well, I crossed my fingers again, but felt a bit more relief than when I brought it in to them, cautiously thinking that if they were willing to cover that much, then they probably would cover (at least in part) anything else that may need fixed/replaced.
They called this afternoon and said it is all fixed up, and they were going to deliver it directly to my door this evening.. I was/am on cloud 9, and cant wait to get my baby back! I still have to actually drive it and make sure it is in fact "right", but I cant see them bringing it back if it wasnt . So at this point I want to give kudos to Mercedes and their customer service, especially for going above and beyond in this situation (even if it was a know problem by them across the M156 band of engines, they at least did the right thing in this case).
When I get it back and test it out I will update on everything, including the work performed and parts replaced.. Im a happy fella right now!

bhamg

^ Great to hear rbrooks - you have every right to be a happy camper!!