MHP question...
#126
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#127
MBWorld Fanatic!
Very well said buddy!! All Andy needs to do is ask his "friend" to post proof of delivery of parts or refund to jcart.. And all of us will shut up for this case. Lol
You asking people to go post on PL is impossible...you know this discussion wouldn't be allowed there. Come on, you are clearly intelligent enough to know that, so why suggest it? Fishy...
Request to mods - if people get out of hand please delete their posts vs the whole thread. As a member of this community it's important people can see discussions like this play out in a civil manner to draw their own conclusions on who to do business with. Thx for allowing thus far. We all know the shady side of this industry is overwhelming, the only way consumers can protect themselves is to communicate.
This is very easy for MHP. People claim you scam. Many. You say you are scam free, then kindly create a list of all the folks claiming scam, and share how each situation "really went down" and how things were rectified either through refund or otherwise. Then see what they say. PROOF. Meaning, if Jim says you owe him 2 grand because he never received a part (or whatever it is) then post the payment date, the shipment date of your product to him, and that's that. Articulate the story, show the proof. Very simple to prove, you own a business, clearly one strong enough to afford you a stable of supercars, you have records, lawyers, etc...ie the means to clear your name, then do it.
Prove it, and everyone who doubted you will be embarrassed. Easy peasy. If not, well then don't blame people for claiming you are a thief.
Request to mods - if people get out of hand please delete their posts vs the whole thread. As a member of this community it's important people can see discussions like this play out in a civil manner to draw their own conclusions on who to do business with. Thx for allowing thus far. We all know the shady side of this industry is overwhelming, the only way consumers can protect themselves is to communicate.
This is very easy for MHP. People claim you scam. Many. You say you are scam free, then kindly create a list of all the folks claiming scam, and share how each situation "really went down" and how things were rectified either through refund or otherwise. Then see what they say. PROOF. Meaning, if Jim says you owe him 2 grand because he never received a part (or whatever it is) then post the payment date, the shipment date of your product to him, and that's that. Articulate the story, show the proof. Very simple to prove, you own a business, clearly one strong enough to afford you a stable of supercars, you have records, lawyers, etc...ie the means to clear your name, then do it.
Prove it, and everyone who doubted you will be embarrassed. Easy peasy. If not, well then don't blame people for claiming you are a thief.
#128
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sugar Land, Texas, United States
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2010 C63 AMG
Wow!! I go away to watch a few of the bands play and we get another page.
So let me address the accusations against me directly. YES, I am David Wilks who was blasted all over the internet 14+ years ago when our little 1600 sq ft shop went head to head against that OTHER Viper Tuner and all hell broke loose in H-Town. Funny how the FCC, FAA, DNI and many other Government organizations did an ACTUAL check on the truth... there was a completely different story than the witch hunt the internet had fun with. And yes... knowing how it made difficulties in my life that I LEARNED FROM... I think it makes MY POINT even MORE VALID when I see patterns like Andy's to ripping people off.
So... take your Google checks from witch hunt forums fuel by my competitor and his cronies and I raise you my Pay Stubs and Secret Security Clearances to build some of the most technologically advanced military aircraft for General Dynamics, Bombradier, Dassault-Falcon, Gulfstream, Vought and my TSA Clearance as icing on the cake.
So stay on target, not bashing, name calling and insults. Be real... Be Honest.
Here you geaux... My Cell Phone: 225-337-5398 Call Me. Learn the truth. It will set you free!
Let's add that Chrysler and SRT gave me a Charger SRT8 to promote the "America Adventure" last year which I put down 19,430 miles in 49 Days in a search for the ultimate roads in America. Do you NOT THINK they checked GOOGLE FIRST? And yet... still gave me a $50k+ car with a sweet budget to drive across America multiple times?
So... now that we have settled the BS (not... Black Series)...
Lets get to why Shell you feel its necessary to demean others when we are simply searching for the truth why you friend is still saying we are trying to steal his work? All we want are the parts owed, nothing more. An explanation would be nice... I could even accept if he said he was addicted to Titty Dancers and his girl had an addiction he couldn't help but fuel. At least it would be an honest excuse... but lies to cover it up are simply unprofessional and when paying $7,000.00 for cams that did not cost anywhere remotely to that price... is fraud. Paying $5k+ for headers when they come not ceramic coated but everyone else who paid for them at the same price GOT THE COATINGS... is just wrong.
So Shell, you are calling out Names and scenarios which as a Customer you are completely privy to the details? Is Andy just asking to put his words into yours or are you getting the texts telling you what to write? Do you NOT find any issue with making the payment for a part a year ago... and waiting, waiting, waiting only to be told that Andy is shipping everything to Corpus so he can get his paid vacation there and needs more than one car to justify his time? BUT... only shipping the cams, not the needed parts to install them and then still after acknowledging a serious deadline, still sends the parts to a third party, not the person who paid for them? Where is the confusion in this? Why are we the bad people for simply wanting the parts with no future issues? I started this thread without naming ANY names, vendors other than an inquiry of MHP. I have no vendetta against the other shops Mark had issue with... I have stayed on target to find a resolution.
In Addition, you are not reading the posts and this is something which indicates to me you are getting your orders from Andy directly as to what to post. Case in point is that you said we are going to a Race on Monday... NO. Anyone who has followed our efforts knows we are not going racing on Monday. We are simply upon a timeline with zero flexibility and in light of such with full disclosure of updates, the parts were shipped to a 3rd party. Which now... we have asked for tracking numbers and Andy is refusing to give any tracking numbers. So clearly, we have a situation where Andy is unaware of a customer needing help, one whom could have helped his negative status with a great victory or run for one in OLOA and a golden opportunity for him to step up and deliver so we could stay on target.
What I predict is that we will simply rely upon the dealership to have these parts available in stock, pay for them again and be happy with the install. Then go for the tuning and test at NOLA.
Any Questions? You have my number as does anyone else.
So let me address the accusations against me directly. YES, I am David Wilks who was blasted all over the internet 14+ years ago when our little 1600 sq ft shop went head to head against that OTHER Viper Tuner and all hell broke loose in H-Town. Funny how the FCC, FAA, DNI and many other Government organizations did an ACTUAL check on the truth... there was a completely different story than the witch hunt the internet had fun with. And yes... knowing how it made difficulties in my life that I LEARNED FROM... I think it makes MY POINT even MORE VALID when I see patterns like Andy's to ripping people off.
So... take your Google checks from witch hunt forums fuel by my competitor and his cronies and I raise you my Pay Stubs and Secret Security Clearances to build some of the most technologically advanced military aircraft for General Dynamics, Bombradier, Dassault-Falcon, Gulfstream, Vought and my TSA Clearance as icing on the cake.
So stay on target, not bashing, name calling and insults. Be real... Be Honest.
Here you geaux... My Cell Phone: 225-337-5398 Call Me. Learn the truth. It will set you free!
Let's add that Chrysler and SRT gave me a Charger SRT8 to promote the "America Adventure" last year which I put down 19,430 miles in 49 Days in a search for the ultimate roads in America. Do you NOT THINK they checked GOOGLE FIRST? And yet... still gave me a $50k+ car with a sweet budget to drive across America multiple times?
So... now that we have settled the BS (not... Black Series)...
Lets get to why Shell you feel its necessary to demean others when we are simply searching for the truth why you friend is still saying we are trying to steal his work? All we want are the parts owed, nothing more. An explanation would be nice... I could even accept if he said he was addicted to Titty Dancers and his girl had an addiction he couldn't help but fuel. At least it would be an honest excuse... but lies to cover it up are simply unprofessional and when paying $7,000.00 for cams that did not cost anywhere remotely to that price... is fraud. Paying $5k+ for headers when they come not ceramic coated but everyone else who paid for them at the same price GOT THE COATINGS... is just wrong.
So Shell, you are calling out Names and scenarios which as a Customer you are completely privy to the details? Is Andy just asking to put his words into yours or are you getting the texts telling you what to write? Do you NOT find any issue with making the payment for a part a year ago... and waiting, waiting, waiting only to be told that Andy is shipping everything to Corpus so he can get his paid vacation there and needs more than one car to justify his time? BUT... only shipping the cams, not the needed parts to install them and then still after acknowledging a serious deadline, still sends the parts to a third party, not the person who paid for them? Where is the confusion in this? Why are we the bad people for simply wanting the parts with no future issues? I started this thread without naming ANY names, vendors other than an inquiry of MHP. I have no vendetta against the other shops Mark had issue with... I have stayed on target to find a resolution.
In Addition, you are not reading the posts and this is something which indicates to me you are getting your orders from Andy directly as to what to post. Case in point is that you said we are going to a Race on Monday... NO. Anyone who has followed our efforts knows we are not going racing on Monday. We are simply upon a timeline with zero flexibility and in light of such with full disclosure of updates, the parts were shipped to a 3rd party. Which now... we have asked for tracking numbers and Andy is refusing to give any tracking numbers. So clearly, we have a situation where Andy is unaware of a customer needing help, one whom could have helped his negative status with a great victory or run for one in OLOA and a golden opportunity for him to step up and deliver so we could stay on target.
What I predict is that we will simply rely upon the dealership to have these parts available in stock, pay for them again and be happy with the install. Then go for the tuning and test at NOLA.
Any Questions? You have my number as does anyone else.
#129
Don't forget about my ECU he destroyed with the screwdriver and blamed on FedEx.. Hey Andy, you can make the check out to Jeremy at OE tuning since he repaired your mess... I won't forget Andy..... I'm like a bad dream that won't go away...
#131
MBWorld Fanatic!
Wow!! I go away to watch a few of the bands play and we get another page.
So let me address the accusations against me directly. YES, I am David Wilks who was blasted all over the internet 14+ years ago when our little 1600 sq ft shop went head to head against that OTHER Viper Tuner and all hell broke loose in H-Town. Funny how the FCC, FAA, DNI and many other Government organizations did an ACTUAL check on the truth... there was a completely different story than the witch hunt the internet had fun with. And yes... knowing how it made difficulties in my life that I LEARNED FROM... I think it makes MY POINT even MORE VALID when I see patterns like Andy's to ripping people off.
So... take your Google checks from witch hunt forums fuel by my competitor and his cronies and I raise you my Pay Stubs and Secret Security Clearances to build some of the most technologically advanced military aircraft for General Dynamics, Bombradier, Dassault-Falcon, Gulfstream, Vought and my TSA Clearance as icing on the cake.
So stay on target, not bashing, name calling and insults. Be real... Be Honest.
Here you geaux... My Cell Phone: 225-337-5398 Call Me. Learn the truth. It will set you free!
Let's add that Chrysler and SRT gave me a Charger SRT8 to promote the "America Adventure" last year which I put down 19,430 miles in 49 Days in a search for the ultimate roads in America. Do you NOT THINK they checked GOOGLE FIRST? And yet... still gave me a $50k+ car with a sweet budget to drive across America multiple times?
So... now that we have settled the BS (not... Black Series)...
Lets get to why Shell you feel its necessary to demean others when we are simply searching for the truth why you friend is still saying we are trying to steal his work? All we want are the parts owed, nothing more. An explanation would be nice... I could even accept if he said he was addicted to Titty Dancers and his girl had an addiction he couldn't help but fuel. At least it would be an honest excuse... but lies to cover it up are simply unprofessional and when paying $7,000.00 for cams that did not cost anywhere remotely to that price... is fraud. Paying $5k+ for headers when they come not ceramic coated but everyone else who paid for them at the same price GOT THE COATINGS... is just wrong.
So Shell, you are calling out Names and scenarios which as a Customer you are completely privy to the details? Is Andy just asking to put his words into yours or are you getting the texts telling you what to write? Do you NOT find any issue with making the payment for a part a year ago... and waiting, waiting, waiting only to be told that Andy is shipping everything to Corpus so he can get his paid vacation there and needs more than one car to justify his time? BUT... only shipping the cams, not the needed parts to install them and then still after acknowledging a serious deadline, still sends the parts to a third party, not the person who paid for them? Where is the confusion in this? Why are we the bad people for simply wanting the parts with no future issues? I started this thread without naming ANY names, vendors other than an inquiry of MHP. I have no vendetta against the other shops Mark had issue with... I have stayed on target to find a resolution.
In Addition, you are not reading the posts and this is something which indicates to me you are getting your orders from Andy directly as to what to post. Case in point is that you said we are going to a Race on Monday... NO. Anyone who has followed our efforts knows we are not going racing on Monday. We are simply upon a timeline with zero flexibility and in light of such with full disclosure of updates, the parts were shipped to a 3rd party. Which now... we have asked for tracking numbers and Andy is refusing to give any tracking numbers. So clearly, we have a situation where Andy is unaware of a customer needing help, one whom could have helped his negative status with a great victory or run for one in OLOA and a golden opportunity for him to step up and deliver so we could stay on target.
What I predict is that we will simply rely upon the dealership to have these parts available in stock, pay for them again and be happy with the install. Then go for the tuning and test at NOLA.
Any Questions? You have my number as does anyone else.
So let me address the accusations against me directly. YES, I am David Wilks who was blasted all over the internet 14+ years ago when our little 1600 sq ft shop went head to head against that OTHER Viper Tuner and all hell broke loose in H-Town. Funny how the FCC, FAA, DNI and many other Government organizations did an ACTUAL check on the truth... there was a completely different story than the witch hunt the internet had fun with. And yes... knowing how it made difficulties in my life that I LEARNED FROM... I think it makes MY POINT even MORE VALID when I see patterns like Andy's to ripping people off.
So... take your Google checks from witch hunt forums fuel by my competitor and his cronies and I raise you my Pay Stubs and Secret Security Clearances to build some of the most technologically advanced military aircraft for General Dynamics, Bombradier, Dassault-Falcon, Gulfstream, Vought and my TSA Clearance as icing on the cake.
So stay on target, not bashing, name calling and insults. Be real... Be Honest.
Here you geaux... My Cell Phone: 225-337-5398 Call Me. Learn the truth. It will set you free!
Let's add that Chrysler and SRT gave me a Charger SRT8 to promote the "America Adventure" last year which I put down 19,430 miles in 49 Days in a search for the ultimate roads in America. Do you NOT THINK they checked GOOGLE FIRST? And yet... still gave me a $50k+ car with a sweet budget to drive across America multiple times?
So... now that we have settled the BS (not... Black Series)...
Lets get to why Shell you feel its necessary to demean others when we are simply searching for the truth why you friend is still saying we are trying to steal his work? All we want are the parts owed, nothing more. An explanation would be nice... I could even accept if he said he was addicted to Titty Dancers and his girl had an addiction he couldn't help but fuel. At least it would be an honest excuse... but lies to cover it up are simply unprofessional and when paying $7,000.00 for cams that did not cost anywhere remotely to that price... is fraud. Paying $5k+ for headers when they come not ceramic coated but everyone else who paid for them at the same price GOT THE COATINGS... is just wrong.
So Shell, you are calling out Names and scenarios which as a Customer you are completely privy to the details? Is Andy just asking to put his words into yours or are you getting the texts telling you what to write? Do you NOT find any issue with making the payment for a part a year ago... and waiting, waiting, waiting only to be told that Andy is shipping everything to Corpus so he can get his paid vacation there and needs more than one car to justify his time? BUT... only shipping the cams, not the needed parts to install them and then still after acknowledging a serious deadline, still sends the parts to a third party, not the person who paid for them? Where is the confusion in this? Why are we the bad people for simply wanting the parts with no future issues? I started this thread without naming ANY names, vendors other than an inquiry of MHP. I have no vendetta against the other shops Mark had issue with... I have stayed on target to find a resolution.
In Addition, you are not reading the posts and this is something which indicates to me you are getting your orders from Andy directly as to what to post. Case in point is that you said we are going to a Race on Monday... NO. Anyone who has followed our efforts knows we are not going racing on Monday. We are simply upon a timeline with zero flexibility and in light of such with full disclosure of updates, the parts were shipped to a 3rd party. Which now... we have asked for tracking numbers and Andy is refusing to give any tracking numbers. So clearly, we have a situation where Andy is unaware of a customer needing help, one whom could have helped his negative status with a great victory or run for one in OLOA and a golden opportunity for him to step up and deliver so we could stay on target.
What I predict is that we will simply rely upon the dealership to have these parts available in stock, pay for them again and be happy with the install. Then go for the tuning and test at NOLA.
Any Questions? You have my number as does anyone else.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
I have had many friends do it in the past, and if I can help in any way, PM me.
Sad part is they no longer come to Beaverun
![wwf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/chairshot.gif)
PS: I am an ocansional instructor, at least when the wifes lets me
![Stick Out Tongue](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
#132
MBWorld Fanatic!
I guarantee he will not be able to provide proof of a refund to me. He always says he has proof but he never posts it, hmmmm . I have all much bank statements in a file and there are no checks or wire transfers from MHP or Andrew Cluck.
#133
MBWorld Fanatic!
^^ I didn't think he had a legit proof for most members who claimed they got rob by him. Or else, he would have came clean long ago.
Like Sincity said, karma will get him back.. He can lie to others, but he can't lie to himself. This will eat him slowly in the long run. Let this thread be a warning for future buyers looking to deal with his company. And for thoses who had bad experience with him, if legal action is out of the equation, then consider ur money lost as charity money & it will make u feel better.
A person who steals charity money is doomed to be miserable in their lives. Just foods for thought.
Like Sincity said, karma will get him back.. He can lie to others, but he can't lie to himself. This will eat him slowly in the long run. Let this thread be a warning for future buyers looking to deal with his company. And for thoses who had bad experience with him, if legal action is out of the equation, then consider ur money lost as charity money & it will make u feel better.
A person who steals charity money is doomed to be miserable in their lives. Just foods for thought.
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#134
MBWorld Fanatic!
I met Andy at MIR. Nice guy, great tune and arguably the best headers made for the C63. I never did any business with him as I run OE.
Did he fab the headers with his own hands, no. He he make his own tune? Nope. Who cares. He is an owner of a business that provides a product and a service. I've talked to the guy many times and what he has in his head about the C63 is greater than most who are posting in this thread. If not all.
For every person on here posting a bad experience I am sure there are 10 with a positive one. Sorry to anyone who had a bad experience with MHP. It happens. Thats business. Hope it all gets worked out.
Did he fab the headers with his own hands, no. He he make his own tune? Nope. Who cares. He is an owner of a business that provides a product and a service. I've talked to the guy many times and what he has in his head about the C63 is greater than most who are posting in this thread. If not all.
For every person on here posting a bad experience I am sure there are 10 with a positive one. Sorry to anyone who had a bad experience with MHP. It happens. Thats business. Hope it all gets worked out.
#135
MBWorld Fanatic!
I gotta disagree with u propain, no body cares about how good his products are or who makes them. The point here is ppl are getting robbed from their hard earned money.. That's not call business. Even if it's one customer, it's 1 too many.
I'm in the retail biz for 27 years as I grew up in my family biz & now become owner of my parents biz, and I never fail to fulfill my orders & take care of my customers when my product does not meet their expectations. Never will I steal their money.
I'm in the retail biz for 27 years as I grew up in my family biz & now become owner of my parents biz, and I never fail to fulfill my orders & take care of my customers when my product does not meet their expectations. Never will I steal their money.
#136
I gotta disagree with u propain, no body cares about how good his products are or who makes them. The point here is ppl are getting robbed from their hard earned money.. That's not call business. Even if it's one customer, it's 1 too many.
I'm in the retail biz for 27 years as I grew up in my family biz & now become owner of my parents biz, and I never fail to fulfill my orders & take care of my customers when my product does not meet their expectations. Never will I steal their money.
I'm in the retail biz for 27 years as I grew up in my family biz & now become owner of my parents biz, and I never fail to fulfill my orders & take care of my customers when my product does not meet their expectations. Never will I steal their money.
Roswell, you know what I just can't understand about all of this is?? Why does he apparently rip some people off and not others? Obviously there is tons of guys on here with MHP tunes and headers, none had problems with him that I can see. I just dont get it, why some are having all these huge issues? Why didn't he rip off me, dodger, mthis, petro, dads, amgftw, tons of guys are running his headers....
Not defending him, just would like to know why some are happy campers and some aren't.
#137
MBWorld Fanatic!
I gotta disagree with u propain, no body cares about how good his products are or who makes them. The point here is ppl are getting robbed from their hard earned money.. That's not call business. Even if it's one customer, it's 1 too many.
I'm in the retail biz for 27 years as I grew up in my family biz & now become owner of my parents biz, and I never fail to fulfill my orders & take care of my customers when my product does not meet their expectations. Never will I steal their money.
I'm in the retail biz for 27 years as I grew up in my family biz & now become owner of my parents biz, and I never fail to fulfill my orders & take care of my customers when my product does not meet their expectations. Never will I steal their money.
I don't know the details so I can't make a judgement call. Everyone has an agenda bro. Careful to know the difference. I will say this, the reason MHP is the household name that we know is people DO care about the product and the end result. He isn't known because he is infamous. Hes known because for a long time he has all the records for a NA C63. Like it or not the guy knows his stuff. If you beg to differ thats your opinion but I wouldn't do it with Andy face to face in battle of who knows more about the platform.
The point I was making is in your 27 years I guarantee you have many unhappy customers. Its business. You can't make everyone happy.
People being robbed of their hard earned money is a different story. I don't know the facts so I won't judge unless I hear all sides. Without Andy here to defend himself this is all quite pointless to be be honest. Its a one sided lynch mob. Its also nothing new. You see about 1 to 2 of these every year.
#139
MBWorld Fanatic!
#140
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2010 C63 AMG
Roswell, you know what I just can't understand about all of this is?? Why does he apparently rip some people off and not others? Obviously there is tons of guys on here with MHP tunes and headers, none had problems with him that I can see. I just dont get it, why some are having all these huge issues? Why didn't he rip off me, dodger, mthis, petro, dads, amgftw, tons of guys are running his headers....
Not defending him, just would like to know why some are happy campers and some aren't.
Not defending him, just would like to know why some are happy campers and some aren't.
So at that time is when he reached out to Andy.... he was told his 4-2-1 coated headers were not as good as the 4-1 merge collector 1-7/8" headers and full exhaust from MHP. So he bought that and sent in the ecu. The ecu he was told was bad, so he had to buy another! Then he was told to get 50-more hp, he could buy Cams. This was a year ago... many ecu changes later to try to get the speed limiter removed and more issues there, the car still was not right.
Fast Forward to three weeks ago. Mark searches me out and finds me now living close to his home and gives me the whole download, names & data on what happened and I agree to help get his car right with the assistance of a friend who owns a Mercedes Dealer where I bought my E63. As we did deeper into the problems... a repeating issue comes to the surface. I encourage him to demand his parts without any further delay and we enter the car in the OLOA to give a formidable deadline to have all work completed and tested. I know how my friend is and I simply said "ENOUGH! End the Madness!"
So why do bad things happen to good people...? Maybe because there are those in society today who look upon a customer as their next meal rather than an opportunity to deliver on a growing reputation of helping others.
#142
#143
#144
MBWorld Fanatic!
Roswell, you know what I just can't understand about all of this is?? Why does he apparently rip some people off and not others? Obviously there is tons of guys on here with MHP tunes and headers, none had problems with him that I can see. I just dont get it, why some are having all these huge issues? Why didn't he rip off me, dodger, mthis, petro, dads, amgftw, tons of guys are running his headers....
Not defending him, just would like to know why some are happy campers and some aren't.
Not defending him, just would like to know why some are happy campers and some aren't.
#146
MBWorld Fanatic!
The point I was making is in your 27 years I guarantee you have many unhappy customers. Its business. You can't make everyone happy.
People being robbed of their hard earned money is a different story. I don't know the facts so I won't judge unless I hear all sides. Without Andy here to defend himself this is all quite pointless to be be honest. Its a one sided lynch mob. Its also nothing new. You see about 1 to 2 of these every year.
But u are right, we don't know if all the claims against MHP of money robbery are true or not. Only Andy & the person involved knows the real facts. I'm only commenting cuz we see more & more of these story on the net, and I find it unreal as how a company can have such a poor customer service.
#147
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2010 C63 AMG
ROFLMAO!! I tried! I started building an airplane after our Mustang was stolen and wanted Mark to join in the fun, but then I moved away to Savannah to work for the Military. We grew apart after that, losing touch til just a few weeks ago.
Last edited by AutoTech Racing; 04-13-2013 at 11:59 PM.
#148
MBWorld Fanatic!
Anyhow, having a wife as a Gvt Auditor, there is something that doesnt add up & balance correctly in his company for sure.
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#149
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W124 E280 95
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I was given some stories about MHP customers in Kuwait and other areas who were stuck with their cars having massive issues. It seems my business partner is no stranger to this having waited a year for parts.
Now when the time has come to deliver or else, its getting deep. Anyone have boots we can borrow too?
***MODS*** You can lock or delete this thread, I think it has served its purpose. I wanted to find out if we were alone in this issue but it is very apparent we are not.
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