Too Much Traction?
07-26-2013, 07:32 AM
#27
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Does this happen all the time? Is it very very hot where you are? The ecu's on these cars will start to pull timing if the engine or trans gets even slightly hot in an effort to protect itself. Are you getting any check engine lights? If so you could be in some sort of limp mode.Trust me, these cars have no problem breaking the tires loose with other without the mct trans.
07-26-2013, 07:57 AM
#28
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2012 CLS63
maybe you could try burnout school
07-26-2013, 08:29 AM
#29
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C63
This seems odd to me as well. If you're having an actual "torque management" issue that would seem to imply one of two things. A, that ESP is still active (I can peel rubber even in Sport mode, much less ESP fully off). Or B, an actual fault of some sort. If you're suspecting a torque management interference issue, then OBD should throw a Check Engine light as a result.
There is a third possibility, and that is you're not using all of the throttle.
I'm going on the assumption that you do actually know how to drive though. 
A potential third factor could be the tires that you're actually using (mine came with Yokohama, though Conti's and Pirellis seem to be the de-facto standard). Still, short of a proper drag radial I'd be surprised that any tire would hook up that much that you couldn't light them up at all.
Hmm....makes me want to find a quiet industrial park nearby and confirm all of this.....
Patrick
There is a third possibility, and that is you're not using all of the throttle.
I'm going on the assumption that you do actually know how to drive though. A potential third factor could be the tires that you're actually using (mine came with Yokohama, though Conti's and Pirellis seem to be the de-facto standard). Still, short of a proper drag radial I'd be surprised that any tire would hook up that much that you couldn't light them up at all.
Hmm....makes me want to find a quiet industrial park nearby and confirm all of this.....
Patrick
The torque management is not an "issue" or something I would expect to cause a check engine light. It's a tool manufacturers use to protect drive train components.
Throttle is at 100%, I assure you.... and quite abruptly to 100%. Re-read my post, I am a very experienced driver.
Short of a wrinkle slick, there's really no tread compound that should reliably fully hook-up almost 450ft-lbs in a 255 width. In particular, a 280TW conti should not be able to.
07-26-2013, 08:40 AM
#30
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It is not torque management, these cars do have a ton of torque management programmed into ecu/tcu but it does not kick in from a dead stop and simply mashing your pedal to the floor.
Does this happen all the time? Is it very very hot where you are? The ecu's on these cars will start to pull timing if the engine or trans gets even slightly hot in an effort to protect itself. Are you getting any check engine lights? If so you could be in some sort of limp mode.Trust me, these cars have no problem breaking the tires loose with other without the mct trans.
Does this happen all the time? Is it very very hot where you are? The ecu's on these cars will start to pull timing if the engine or trans gets even slightly hot in an effort to protect itself. Are you getting any check engine lights? If so you could be in some sort of limp mode.Trust me, these cars have no problem breaking the tires loose with other without the mct trans.
How do you know TM isn't active from rest? Not questioning you, just learning.
Also, does anyone know if the MCT may be allowing clutch slippage to prevent wheel spin?
So far a couple others have posted similar results. I still think its some combination of TM in the DME and TCU and particulary in +12 cars. The more I drive this car the more I'm surprised by the amount of TM.
07-26-2013, 09:35 AM
#33
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Could this be something that's changed for model year 13?
Mine is a '12, and from reading the responses, it appears to be mostly around '13 and newer models?
It's not like the 6.2L is an electric motor which generates full torque at 0 RPM, so I'm curious as to why MB would be restricting power output from just off-idle. I could see it if MB had significant drivetrain reliability issues that forced them to cut power, but I really haven't heard much about the C63 tearing up half-shafts, diff, transmissions etc.
Maybe the thing to do is throw it on a dyno and see if the car is actually producing full output?
I don't think anyone here is doubting your driving ability or the results that you're seeing. We're just saying that it doesn't make any sense (ie, something odd is going on as several of us don't see the issue at all).
Patrick
Mine is a '12, and from reading the responses, it appears to be mostly around '13 and newer models?
It's not like the 6.2L is an electric motor which generates full torque at 0 RPM, so I'm curious as to why MB would be restricting power output from just off-idle. I could see it if MB had significant drivetrain reliability issues that forced them to cut power, but I really haven't heard much about the C63 tearing up half-shafts, diff, transmissions etc.
Maybe the thing to do is throw it on a dyno and see if the car is actually producing full output?
I don't think anyone here is doubting your driving ability or the results that you're seeing. We're just saying that it doesn't make any sense (ie, something odd is going on as several of us don't see the issue at all).
Patrick
07-26-2013, 10:05 AM
#34
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TM off the line does seem a little unnecessary especially since its so under tire'd. Good point.
Maybe there were issues with the 12 MCT. Any MB techs on here?
I may go ahead and have it dyno'ed. I bought it new a few months ago and it's 100% stock so its hard to see why there would be anything wrong. It actually feels quite fast aside from this "issue".
Maybe there were issues with the 12 MCT. Any MB techs on here?
I may go ahead and have it dyno'ed. I bought it new a few months ago and it's 100% stock so its hard to see why there would be anything wrong. It actually feels quite fast aside from this "issue".
07-26-2013, 10:10 AM
#35
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2021 Porsche TTS
That sounds really weird.
I had a 2009 C63 and now CLS63 and stock, there were unfortunately severe traction issues with ESP off and suddenly flooring the pedal.
I have to feather the throttle to get a goo launch and I believe it is the same for the rest of us so I suspect there is a problem.
Here's what I suggest. Go find someone else with a C63 (either thru the forum or car meets or talk to your SA) and run both cars side by side and switching drivers. This will sure tell what is going on. After you have done this, if you car underperforms, then I would get it dynoed then you can bring that info to your dealer.
Good luck and sorry to hear you do not have a tire shredder because if there is one car on the market that can do that, the C is on the top 10 list.
I had a 2009 C63 and now CLS63 and stock, there were unfortunately severe traction issues with ESP off and suddenly flooring the pedal.
I have to feather the throttle to get a goo launch and I believe it is the same for the rest of us so I suspect there is a problem.
Here's what I suggest. Go find someone else with a C63 (either thru the forum or car meets or talk to your SA) and run both cars side by side and switching drivers. This will sure tell what is going on. After you have done this, if you car underperforms, then I would get it dynoed then you can bring that info to your dealer.
Good luck and sorry to hear you do not have a tire shredder because if there is one car on the market that can do that, the C is on the top 10 list.
07-26-2013, 12:21 PM
#36
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When my C Black Series was stock last summer I could smoke the tires through first gear and sometime kick it sideways when it shifted into second. Something does not sound right. I would suggest getting it up on a dyno and then do some logging.
07-26-2013, 12:22 PM
#37
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TM off the line does seem a little unnecessary especially since its so under tire'd. Good point.
Maybe there were issues with the 12 MCT. Any MB techs on here?
I may go ahead and have it dyno'ed. I bought it new a few months ago and it's 100% stock so its hard to see why there would be anything wrong. It actually feels quite fast aside from this "issue".
Maybe there were issues with the 12 MCT. Any MB techs on here?
I may go ahead and have it dyno'ed. I bought it new a few months ago and it's 100% stock so its hard to see why there would be anything wrong. It actually feels quite fast aside from this "issue".
07-26-2013, 04:10 PM
#38
Yupp i have a 2012 coupe and as stated earlier its tough NOT to spin the tires. Maybe MB implemented new TCU Tq Management maps onto the car to protect the drivetrain. I know their is a member on here with a 12-13 coupe that ran an 11.9 @118 bone stock at the drag strip and than on one of his runs he said he just mashed the pedal the rpms rose to 2-3k rpm and than the power kicked in (clutch was released) and he snapped his rear axle or driveshaft. Might be an issue that they now try to protect themselves from having in the future id like to get that member to put his 2 cents in here
07-26-2013, 04:42 PM
#39
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There are times even in Sport traction mode where I've felt this slippage quite evidently on a straightaway. The RPMs and sound are there, but no seat of the pants feel. Then it comes on quite smoothly but quickly and boom you realize it's been slipping. Why on a straightaway I have no clue. MCT characteristics are very very strange and unpredictable.
07-26-2013, 05:35 PM
#40
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Cutch slippage would def explain what I'm seeing. Whether to protect the power train or to function as a very mild LC. It's actually very fast of the line, just never spins.
07-26-2013, 06:29 PM
#41
Yupp i have a 2012 coupe and as stated earlier its tough NOT to spin the tires. Maybe MB implemented new TCU Tq Management maps onto the car to protect the drivetrain. I know their is a member on here with a 12-13 coupe that ran an 11.9 @118 bone stock at the drag strip and than on one of his runs he said he just mashed the pedal the rpms rose to 2-3k rpm and than the power kicked in (clutch was released) and he snapped his rear axle or driveshaft. Might be an issue that they now try to protect themselves from having in the future id like to get that member to put his 2 cents in here
Last edited by pushemekuratz; 07-26-2013 at 06:33 PM.
07-26-2013, 07:24 PM
#42
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Are you sure the ESP is truly disengaged? There are two different modes. You can turn the ESP "off". It is achieved by just pushing the ESP button until the triangle shows and display states that the ESP is "OFF". That will give you some control over the car, but the ESP will still kick in if the tires try to get away from you. But, if you hold down the ESP button for a few seconds, the ESP will "disengage". The display will state ESP "Disengaged". That is how you can have true control of the car and it WILL get away from you. Just trying to figure out why, as everyone's car will chirp, spin tires, and do burnouts, or just get loose on you depending on your driving skills.
I'm not saying that you haven't or that you do not know how to drive. I was just making sure that you did know that there are three(3) different ESP settings.
On
Off
Disengaged
I'm not saying that you haven't or that you do not know how to drive. I was just making sure that you did know that there are three(3) different ESP settings.
On
Off
Disengaged
07-27-2013, 01:50 PM
#43
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10' C63, 99' 4Runner 250K miles!
The first time I completely turned off ESP on my 2010 C63 and floored it from a stand still it totally hooked up and accelerated very hard. I had a passenger with me and I found the lack of wheel spin embarrassing. I said, "Let's try that again", and when I did (with no use of the brakes) the tires spun furiously in first gear and then it shifted into second and the car fishtailed all the way through 2nd gear.
To this day, it's a mystery to me how the car hooked up the way it did that first time with the ESP off.
To this day, it's a mystery to me how the car hooked up the way it did that first time with the ESP off.
07-28-2013, 10:48 PM
#44
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2013 C63 coupe
After reading this post I decided to try it on my '13 coupe with ESP on sports handling and S+ mode. Really stepped into it from a stop and I immediately broke traction and fishtailed. But it's not a warm day here and the road was a little bit wet as well
07-29-2013, 11:46 AM
#46
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Apparently, just a few degrees makes all the difference. Also the surface, so many variations of grip depending on concrete vs asphalt. Previously, I couldn't lose traction above 95 degrees. This morning was 85 and on new concrete roads with grip lines (which I consider the grippiest roads) I started spinning half way through first and incredibly 2nd gear took over and spun out until I let off. Never had that happen, I guess the Benz fairies were concerned about my lack of power and fixed me up.
So I guess that puts me in the group of owners who have traction issues. I will say I thought Sport traction mode allowed straight line traction loss, so that's what I had been driving in. This time I was sure to turn it completely off. Maybe there was some residual TC still kicking in before in Sport mode. Idk.
So I guess that puts me in the group of owners who have traction issues. I will say I thought Sport traction mode allowed straight line traction loss, so that's what I had been driving in. This time I was sure to turn it completely off. Maybe there was some residual TC still kicking in before in Sport mode. Idk.
07-30-2013, 09:29 AM
#47
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07-30-2013, 09:37 PM
#48
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you can always put it in dyno mode, It'll surely spin the tires and try to kill you without esp/abs/airbags etc... lol
it could also makes a difference if you let the engine warm up to operating temperature
it could also makes a difference if you let the engine warm up to operating temperature
07-31-2013, 07:51 AM
#49
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07-31-2013, 07:59 AM
#50
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2012 CLS63
have you tried some bacon grease or maybe some Crisco for this?
