bhamg

Costco is Top Tier. I've seen Costco's PowerPoint presentation - it might be archived somewhere online if you can find it - but I believe they are putting in more detergent additives than anyone. It's just Costco's MO.

http://www.costco.com/kirkland-signature-gasoline.html

cloverfield

I've used this stuff for years and it nearly eliminates all knocking/pinging - which seems to be worsened by the summer fuel blend in SoCal, especially when coupled with heat soak in heavy traffic.

You could try a couple gallons of 100 race gas from the 76 at pico and bundy, but who knows how long that's been sitting in the underground tanks.

zcct04

Great reference - thanks! Significantly changed my perception of Costco gas.

I also learned from this that there's a pretty long list of retailers who have qualified for TOP TIER.

In the US they include
76 Stations
Aloha Petroleum
BP
Chevron
Conoco
Costco Wholesale
CountryMark
Entec Stations
Express Convenience Centers
Exxon
Hawaii Fueling Network (HFN)
Holiday Stationstores
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
MFA Oil Co.
Mobil
Ohana Fuels
Phillips 66
Quik Trip
Road Ranger
Scheirl Oil
Shell
SuperAmerica
Texaco
Tri-Par Oil Co.

Canada's list includes
Chevron Canada
CO-OP
Esso
Petro-Canada
Shell Canada
Tempo

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

Diabolis

^ This.

AFAIK, most gas companies have reciprocal use agreements in place. At most gas terminals in the GTA there are large containers of only two grades - 87 and 91, filled by gas from any number of refineries they deal with. The tanker truck operator selects the additive blend - thus "branding" the gas if you will - he wants for each delivery. The only exceptions are Shell and Suncor (Petro-Canada), with Shell having E0 (no Ethanol) pure 91 octane gas and Petro-Canada having E10 94 octane. All the others have 87 and 91 only (both E10) that get mixed 50/50 at the pump to give you 89.

Diabolis

The brownish-orange color suggests it's manganese (MMT). It has been used in Canada since 1976 as an octane booster, especially after tetraethyllead (TEL) was banned. Debatably toxic and a number of car makers don't like it. I think Australia is the only other country that allows its use as a gasoline additive.

SmittyAMG

Couple of family members work at a BP refinery in Long Beach. I take their word on it and they like the additives in Chevron. They make it and use it so I do too. Don't think its all hype and marketing.

AMG893

I looked up the contents of Nulon Oct Booster.
Substances
See section below for composition of Mixtures
Mixtures

CAS # WEIGHT NAME
64742-82-1. >60 naphtha petroleum, heavy, hydrodesulfurised
12108-13-3 <20 manganese 2-methylcyclopentadienyl tricarbonyl
91-20-3 NotSpec. naphthalene


You were correct

Vash

Maximus, where in SoCal are you? Here in the Valley there's a 76 that has a pump designated for "VP Racing 100". I generally run a mix of the 100 with Shell/Chevron 91 that puts octane around 94-95. Butt dyno tells me that she runs much better with the mix vs straight 91. She also sounds better.

Most "octane boosters" don't do crap. Read the back, most don't tell you how many points it will increase per gallon. The front labels will read "Octane 100!!!", but it's bs. When I was looking for a booster I found only 1 that did state exactly how much it would increase per gallon (don't recall the brand), but it was <1 point per bottle/tank of gas. At ~$20 a bottle, the 100 race gas is cheaper and you know what you're getting.

m a x i m u s

hey, vash. i'm in west LA. there's a 76 near my place with the "race fuel" as well. i was gonna try that route, but i didnt want to have to go to that specific gas station every time i fill up, which is every week. where is the 76 in the valley exactly, and how much is it per gal?

Vash

It's on the corner of Vanowen and DeSoto. It hovers around $9 a gallon. I was there a week ago, but they had it blocked off while the pump across from it was being serviced.

I usually stop at two stations. Either Shell or Chevron, and then the 76. A third of a tank of 100 plus 2/3 91 will give you 94. .33 (the percentage of 100 in the tank)•9 (the difference between 100 and 91) =~3. 91+3=94 octane. A tick over 5 gallons of 100 will do it.

It's when I have to get gas and can't make it to that 76 that I notice a big difference (drop in performance).

bhamg

Is the Alliance gas station on Sherman Way in Van Nuys still open? I made the weekly trek from Studio City for a few years to get 100 octane there...they were always $1.50-$2.00 gal cheaper than the 76.

Vash

I don't think they have the 100 anymore. Used to be able to get it from them in 5 gal drums.

I found this list. Looks old, but some should still be open.

SoCal Race Gas

m a x i m u s

cool, thanks, vash.

jcfay

Alright, well I guess I'm glad here in NJ we have 93 available, but should I be? Is there any benefit to running 93 over 91? I don't ever buy from no-name retailers, so I'm probably getting a decent additive package (I assume), but am I just wasting money on 93 versus 91? Only a minor thread highjack...

roadtalontsi

i once replaced a v12 biturbo block and pistons. 28k$ for the block alone, 700$/each piston. He swore that he only used premium costco gas. Although I could tell the damage was from detonation caused by poor octane fuel. I couldnt prove it. So he got a fresh motor. Id forget using that crap in my car.

J spaulding

octane booster say on their can that they do not hurt Cat converters. I read both labels and neither contains lead which can clog up the converters. I was
told by a Saturn car engineer that the octane boosters contain the next element heavier than lead and are not that much of a problem. I always use Lucas since it noticeably has more umph than Turbo 108. If you haven't tried an octane booster before then you will find that they are about as much fun as a guy can have for 8 bucks.

whoover

Lucas uses MMT, which is a manganese compound. Manganese is a lot lighter than lead, which is lucky since most of the elements that are heavier than lead are radioactive.

m a x i m u s

well that would certainly make some power. lol.

Diabolis

Indeed.

Diabolis

Bu115h!t. See http://www.theicct.org/sites/default..._ICCT_2004.pdf. If you're not interested in the toxicity analysis, you can start at page 11 to see what it does to your car. Talk about clogged converters...

looney100

Guys, I work for a major refiner and marketer of gasoline. Let me clear up a few misconceptions.

Yes. Many different brands of gasoline will draw their product from the same terminal. But that doesn't mean they are of the same quality. The terminals have several storage tanks for different components, and the mixes differ based on the specifications for each brand. For example, if a truck pulls up for a local Shell that supplies ethanol gasoline, the system would mix a low octane base stock at ~90%, about 10% ethanol and put in some of Shell's own additive package at their specified rate. A truck showing up for at the same place for a Mobil station would get Mobil's additive at the rate Mobil specifies. There are separate smaller holding tanks for each of the additives packages. They aren't shared, it's a bit of "secret sauce" for each of the majors.

The amounts of detergent also vary. The company I work for also supplies fuel to marketers that don't produce themselves, like Costco, Joe's Fuel, etc. The detergency levels for those are typically lower than at the major brands. Costco in the US is an exception as it is Top Tier. Costco in Canada is not top tier. Usually, the detergency levels provided to the "off-brands" are at industry minimums. The typical person buying gas at the grocery store is interested in low price, not high quality, so why pay for increased detergency levels. Majors keep their own additives for themselves. These are typically at higher levels than minimums, but may not meet Top Tier levels. Top Tier gasoline contains high detergency levels. Despite being a major brand/refiner, and having higher than normal detergent levels in our fuel, we needed to further improve the additive package to meet Top Tier requirements when we sought certification years ago.

Top Tier gasoline is a specification created by automobile manufacturers - Mercedes is one of them - because they were unhappy with the quality of fuel in the marketplace and felt better was needed. It isn't a specification dreamed up by fuel purveyors just to try and market a sense of higher quality.

Diabolis

Hi looney100,

Thanks for the clarification. Does that mean that the Ethanol is also added at the terminal (in addition to the additive & detergent package)? In other words, the "base" stock at the terminal is E0 87 and 91, and the desired Ethanol content is also mixed on the spot? It would certainly make sense to do that from a storage and stability perspective as well as being able to accommodate companies like Shell in Canada who sell E0 91 octane gas.

looney100

Ethanol is a high-octane fuel, and is mixed at the terminal. So in cases where E10 is used, the ethanol is blended with a sub-octane basestock, so that after the two are together you meet the 87 octane for regular gas. So products in storage would be the basestock and ethanol.
Depending on the market and supplier the 91+ octane products may be a conventional gasoline (ethanol free) or ethanol mixed with lower octane grades to meet 91, 93 etc.

Vash

Yesterday I drove past the Chevron on Sherman Way and Woodley and they have a huge banner up stating they have race fuel, 101 octane (excited about having another option in the Valley, had to share).

I didn't get to stop in and check brand/price (going fishing, towing a boat).

bhamg

BTW our favorite whipping boy Arco is now Top Tier. Never thought that would happen...