bhamg

LOL AT THE "FACTS."

Ingenieur

MB USA is the only one that knows
And they are full of shyte?
'D-i-s-c-o-v-e-r-y'

Anything you say is wives tales
Can't even be called hear say because it is so patently ridiculous and nebulous
If you want to worry and fret go ahead
Won't help
Instead of whining and posting defamatory and false 'information' why don't you actually do something about it

If I can sue BMW (US, not a dealer) and prevail you should be able to get satisfaction from MB instead of whining snd moaning like a school girl without a prom date lol

All these failures
Perhaps 1 or 2 invoices

roadtalontsi

8 1/2yrs. shop with 40techs. done 0 sets personally. seen about 4 done in total. high volume of amgs come through. Im actually about to do mine solely because i dont want it to happen later on, and i have a blower so it is a little more stressful on them.

Jasonoff

Cross section pic via motoman

Ingenieur

For those who truely believe that this is a serious and widespread issue and in fact an injustice, you have the moral obligation and imperative to do something

Otherwise all you are doing is crying fire and yet won 't pick up a bucket

Lol

AMG Boost

The chances for head bolt failure are low... But what happens in a few years when the miles start to add on? I think we will be seeing many more cases.

estrellajon

Or just buy a Honda so no more whining? Lol

motoman

Jasonoff, thanks for the help.

jaspirr

Thanks for the advice everyone. Didn't mean to start a big fight, but that's what always happens in these situations.

The consensus seems to be that, even in the worst case scenario, it is really rare. Maybe 1-2% of C63's at worst. Most people seem to be arguing it is way, way less than that, like maybe 0.1%. That is a relief. As I said about the Z06 issue, the more research that came out, the higher the number kept getting and it could be as high as 50% for them.

The C63 I'm looking at has headers and a tune. It's not going to get covered by any warranty most likely. I think I'll just have to take the risk and hope my head bolts are fine. Is there some cheap test you can do to determine if you might have head bolt issues?

Autosport7

Im not sure how you can make this statement tbh. I have witnessed a number of 70k - 100k mileage C63's that fall in the category of the affected vin range. None, that that I am aware of, had the head bolts swapped out.
I understand there are a small select few (even you are only claiming 1%- 2%) that have been affected, but to repair something on your car that isn't broken at a cost of $4k or more, is ludicrous imho.

I can honestly say I don't find myself as much of a gambling man, but to me this is such a low-risk gamble, even I am willing to take my chances.

If it goes, then I will pay the costs to have it repaired, if it doesn't, I have $4k more in my pocket than you do a the end of the day.

Autosport7

Not sure I agree with this entirely.
I don't believe the issue is primarily mileage or every high mileage C63 would have had this issue.
I don't know if you have noticed but there are a lot of higher mileage C63's out there. A lot more than 1% - 2% of them if I had to take a stab at it.

whoover

It's like any insurance policy. The cost of a failed head bolt can be $20,000 or more. If it fails in such a way that a lot of coolant gets dumped in the oil, the only real fix is a complete teardown because glycol will bind to the bearings and prevent proper lubrication. Flushing the engine, even with a dose of ATF, won't remove the glycol film. The oil pump should be replaced, but the labor is what kills you.

It's also possible that an inrush of coolant will hydrolock the engine and bend a rod. Who are you going to have reblueprint an AMG engine? If this were on warranty, MB would probably give you a new short block. People have reported MB estimates of $40,000 to fix an engine after a head bolt failure off warranty.

Part of the value of insurance is in helping you sleep well at night. It makes a certain amount of sense to me.

Autosport7

Goodness! Well when you put it this way, I'm glad I only put about 2k miles on it a year!!! LOL
Since mine is an 09 it probably isn't worth $40k, I see any signs of headbolt failure while driving, and this thing is going into a tree somewhere!

Jasonoff

Just park it on the side of the road over some very dry grass

balthaser

I knew this thread would be ruined by that particular id.

Ingenieur

who?


because I gave an opinion that it is a non-issue so I get ridiculed and attacked?


reread the posts


again: how many 'claimed' failures vs. invoices? basically 0


If I was gnashing teeth and fretting over something I would actually deal with it instead of fear monger and whine...it does not good
fix the problem that you perceive, no one else will do it for you
they don't give a rats ***


instead of the enjoying the car why live in a state of constant anxiety?
DEAL WITH IT
sue
repair
sell
something, anything...but moaning and *****ing
it is pointless, redundant, pedantic, and boorish


whomever said 2% that would be >2000 cars worldwide...not likely
go to German and euro forums and see how many you can find: I could not find ANY!

jvanbrecht

I believe the term insurance fraud comes to mind here

Best not put anything on the internet, as it is forever, and will be used against you :P

Ingenieur

if it breaks and they won't fix it, sue
they will settle
if they fight it chances are good: they acknowledged a defect, ie improper fastener type application, issued a bulletin and a revised part...
that is why I believe they have been so cooperative:
they acknowledged the issue
the incident is so low that cost/exposure is minimal
if you work with them, they will work with you
if you go in with nostrils flairing and hackles up, they will shutdown and MAKE you take it from them: business 101 SOP

jvanbrecht

While I do not necessarily disagree with your statements, keep in mind, that M156 based vehicle owners (this is not just C63's) on the forums, are a vocal minority. I would estimate less than 1% of 1% of the AMG owners are there are probably forum members (also, 98% of all statistics are made up on the spot )

While there are few forum members who have had head bolt failures, I am willing to bet there are many more (but probably still a very small percentage of the total M156 engines out there) that have had failures and are not members of any forum, and who did not pitch a fit, and probably either got warranty fixes, or paid out of pocket to make the issue go away, or even just turfed the car (although I would expect to see more used M156 parts on the secondary market if that were the case, so maybe not).

I do believe this is going to be a problem over time, the bolts are inherently weak, you can see that in the cross section previously posted. There is a reason they changed the design, and it was not just for the fun of it. And while mileage may not ultimately be a factor, time and aggressiveness of driving might be.

Ingenieur

this forum has 10's of 1000's of members, and the m156 AMG sections are the most trafficked

I would guess at least 1/4 of all owners have at least visited as a guest
so if 2% is true we should see at least 100's of failures
I count <3 documented and perhaps 15 +/- total claimed

members 300,000
threads 500,000
posts 6,000,000

C63
threads 20.000 4%
posts 380,000 6%

e55/e63
threads 44,000 9%
posts 730,000 12%

I would say 10-12% or 30,000 to 36,000 of our members are M156 variant owners
this does not even count the other models with the M156
that is a large % of the US cars, well over 1/2

this does not count visitors
and it would be safe to say if a visitor had a failure he would post (I would, I'd be 'pissed')
and this is borne out by many of the people who claim failure have only a few posts

balthaser

"I would guess",,pfffttttt

Ingenieur

Newton first guessed about gravity
Einstein the speed of light
everything starts with a 'guess' or assumption until proven

the facts have proven it is not an issue
100,000 cars worldwide
a few dozen failures at most

perhaps 1 or 2 invoices posted
such an easy thing to do if it actually happened

the forum stats are facts
and conclusions can be drawn
if 300,000 members and 10% of forum traffic is in the C63/E63 M156 forums it is valid to conclude that 30,000 members have an c63/e63 with m156 engine

that is a majority of m156's sold in the US within the affected range

it is true whether you believe it not
just like gravity
deny gravity, jump out of a window, let me know how it turns out


if the bolt issue bothers you deal with it, like a man, don't suffer and be wishy-washy, don't live with the 'fear', grow a set and fix it
lol

balthaser

Newton, Einstein, Ingenieur


no need to be ridiculed

Ingenieur

are you talking about ne or you???

I am obvious and plain spoken
you are insidious and back-handed
how would you prefer it

Euler

Yep, every time.