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Both of your front toes are pointing to the right... Toe in on the left and toes out on the right... And your rear axle is also causing the car to pull right as you have greater toe out in the rear left then the rear right... Rear axle steer is opposite of the front
Thanks for the info. So do you know where I should be installing the new camber bolts?
Your front camber is more negative on the left - which will cause pull to the right, and you have more caster on the left than the right which will also cause a pull to the right as well.
Im used to reading specs in degree's and minutes which are a little different than degrees and 100ths of a degree, but with what you've got i'd pull the left lower control arm in towards the center of the car and push the right control arm out. by doing this your left side camber will go more positive, and caster will decrease. The opposite will happen on the right side. You will gain negative camber and increase caster which will allow a slight pull to the left which is what is usually needed if the roads have any sort of crown for water drainage. (by control arm i mean the ones most perpendicular to the car that affect camber more, not the ones referred to as torque struts, thrust arms, torque arms etc...)
The front toe being off actually just throws the steering wheel center point off. If has no real affect on pulling. (for instance your steering wheel is probably slightly off to the right) They cancel each other out when the car is moving and move the steering wheel off center. You should have around .16 toe in..... .8 on each side. always keep in mind that Toe is your primary tire killer, if you dont have the toe in the front tires will wear more than necessary on the inside which is what having alot of negative camber causes too (which amg's and any real modern performance car have alot of negative camber so you definitely dont want both working the tires on the same spot)
The rear toe ins't really off enough to feel any of the pulling out come in the real world. the way it is in theory should cause a pull/dog walk to the left.
Just have them set the toe's front and rear to factory specs. The pressed toe in the front requires a press bar, if you dont have that just set them in .01 more toe'd in. This bar is to simulate the tires pushing apart front eachother when at high speeds.
Let me know how it comes out, if it pulls too hard left after that - doubt it will, I can let you know what adjustments to make from there.
yep, thats how you want it. If you're installing them yourself then driving back to the alignment rack make sure you arent driving too far. Your front toe is going to be thrown way out up atleast a full degree and the car will be pretty scary.
However your diagram refers to the older style alignment bolts with teeth in the bushings - which are actually harder to install than what the 204 uses. On our style the bushing only has one hole and the subframe has the teeth and notches in it.
the way ours work - the open mouth of the bolt and the flat side of the washers should be on the same side. On the driver's side you'll want the mouth/flat to the inside on the right side - passenger. you'll want the mouth/flat on the outside. Sorry this is so dang confusing if you dont know what im talking about lol. next time i do an alignment i'll take some pics so people know wtf im talking about lol.
I found some pictures online that may help....
this is the style bolt we have on the 204.
(not the same bolt (note the mouth is really small, ours goes almost the entire length of the bolt) for our cars, but same washers - better picture)
this is similar to the bolt we use - one slot/mouth and 2 goofy washers shows how to put them in sort of.
This is the bolt for the style you posted a picture of that adjusts in the toothed bushings. notice the washers are totally flat, it's hard to tell but there's actually 2 slots (mouths) on that bolt
Last edited by roadtalontsi; 12-13-2015 at 07:13 PM.
Thanks! Just finished up installing the left bolt. With the left arm pulled in now, I should in theory have camber: -2 from my alignment specs + 1/3 degree based on the bolt settings which should now equate to 1.66 degrees right? My right camber spec was -1.8. Shouldn't I leave that side alone to stay at -1.8 right and -1.66 left
Also does adjusting the actual strut up top adjust camber at all? I made sure to push mine all the way towards in center of the car for as much camber as I could get.
Oh and yes, my front toe was WAY out of whack. Luckily, my buddy and I know how to adjust front toe roughly with the measuring tapes so we've got that back to where it was or close to.
What are ur alignment specs? Most roads are crowned to the right for drainage during rain. Try having them put more castor on the left side if possible, although, it might not be without a KMAC or other similar kit. I forgot if it was only toe that can be adjusted in the front and/or rear
As mentioned above, it looks like I want less caster on the left. Just installed the new camber bolt to slightly reduce caster as well as bring down the camber a bit. It should look much closer to the right side now which is still have not touched.
awesome, im glad you're understanding the way all this works. The camber bolts usually change it around 10-15minutes or a 1/4 of a degree in camber and subtract 20 minutes of caster when you pull them in. When you push the cambers out it's usually closer to 15-20 minutes of camber change and add 25 minutes of caster. Those numbers are a generalization - not all cars are created equally. The picture i found is for the 208 which is the late 90's to 04' clk totally different suspension. It's up to your personal preference on how much of a pull you want. While the cambers will be pretty close with the one bolt on the left, you'll still have alot more caster on the left side than the right which will make the car pull to the right. The bolt on the right side is more to compensate for road crown, if the roads are flat where you are you might be fine, it also depends on how picky you are too. Because of the adjustments on benz's it's not often you get perfect alignments. In a perfect world I'd set every benz with dead even cambers and 45 minutes more caster on the right side than the left. This gives the car a nice pull to the left with no effect on tire wear at all and drives fantastic on 95% of north texas roads.
Too also add on, if your cambers were closer to start with i would have suggested the left camber in and the right caster in. however i think in your case if you pulled the right caster in it'd drop the right side camber too much so your camber would pull right and caster would pull left. pulling right caster (torque strut/brake strut/torque arm) usually changes camber 10 minutes(more positive) and adds 30-35 minutes of caster.
Last edited by roadtalontsi; 12-13-2015 at 09:48 PM.
awesome, im glad you're understanding the way all this works. The camber bolts usually change it around 10-15minutes or a 1/4 of a degree in camber and subtract 20 minutes of caster when you pull them in. When you push the cambers out it's usually closer to 15-20 minutes of camber change and add 25 minutes of caster. Those numbers are a generalization - not all cars are created equally. The picture i found is for the 208 which is the late 90's to 04' clk totally different suspension. It's up to your personal preference on how much of a pull you want. While the cambers will be pretty close with the one bolt on the left, you'll still have alot more caster on the left side than the right which will make the car pull to the right. The bolt on the right side is more to compensate for road crown, if the roads are flat where you are you might be fine, it also depends on how picky you are too. Because of the adjustments on benz's it's not often you get perfect alignments. In a perfect world I'd set every benz with dead even cambers and 45 minutes more caster on the right side than the left. This gives the car a nice pull to the left with no effect on tire wear at all and drives fantastic on 95% of north texas roads.
Too also add on, if your cambers were closer to start with i would have suggested the left camber in and the right caster in. however i think in your case if you pulled the right caster in it'd drop the right side camber too much so your camber would pull right and caster would pull left. pulling right caster (torque strut/brake strut/torque arm) usually changes camber 10 minutes(more positive) and adds 30-35 minutes of caster.
After I read this, I decided to install the passenger side bolt as well. Thank you so much for the information and guidance! I've been looking for the settings in minutes all day and couldn't find them.
This is what I ended up with:
Passenger side pushed out
Drivers pulled in:
Went for a short drive and everything felt nice! Cannot wait to get it back on the rack and all dialed in. It's a shame we have no rear camber adjustment. I'd really like to be running -1.5 to -1.7 if I had the ability to. I may look into camber arms...
Got my alignment done after installing the new bolts.
Something interesting is going on. After I installed the bolts, the pulled went away substantially. Not totally, but much better. Per my "before" specs on the sheet, I had a bit of toe in (positive). Now that I'm running 0 toe or even negative once the tires are under load while driving, the car is once again back to pulling right not as bad as prior to installing the bolts, but still not where I'd like it to be as it's still very noticeable. I get steering feedback on the wheel as though I'm turning left on the highway and I really do not like it.
Any thoughts anyone?
I'm going to have to go back to a bit of toe in, which luckily my buddy and I can dial in with a measuring tape.
Got my alignment done after installing the new bolts.
Something interesting is going on. After I installed the bolts, the pulled went away substantially. Not totally, but much better. Per my "before" specs on the sheet, I had a bit of toe in (positive). Now that I'm running 0 toe or even negative once the tires are under load while driving, the car is once again back to pulling right not as bad as prior to installing the bolts, but still not where I'd like it to be as it's still very noticeable. I get steering feedback on the wheel as though I'm turning left on the highway and I really do not like it.
Any thoughts anyone?
I'm going to have to go back to a bit of toe in, which luckily my buddy and I can dial in with a measuring tape.
Your settings look pretty good... No real reason for it to be pulling based on those ... Tires worn ? Road camber? How much is it pulling ? Like if you let off the wheel at 60-70 does it instantly need to be corrected ?
HELP! H&R Springs installed and even after alignment car still pulls right”
END THE FRUSTRATION – FIX IT RIGHT THE 1ST TIME – WITH FAST/ONGOING ADJUSTMENT CAPABILITY! (Front and Rear- INSTEAD OF INACCURATE “ONE ONLY POSITION” OFFSET Front Camber and Caster bolts).
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Bush extraction tool is supplied allowing these rear Camber bushes to be fitted on car.
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The 4 front bushings are the highest wearing suspension bushes, K-MAC bushes feature twice the load bearing area and eliminate the OEM oil filled/air voided bushes – yet still 2 axis/self aligning. Allowing arms to travel through their required suspension arcs without binding. Result is improved brake and steering response.
For track days also manufactured are replacement top strut mounts (coil spring models). 1. Simply replace existing mounts – no mods 2. Can record Street and Track settings 3. Precisely Camber and Caster adjustable 4. Available in Stage 2 (Street/Race) or Stage 3 (Full Race) 5. Fit with OEM diameter springs or 60-70mm ID coil overs 6. No height increase 7. Fast adjust from engine bay (and with strut brace fitted) 8. Separate H/Duty radial thrust bearings for steering loads 9. Stage 2 centers similar to OEM while Stage 3 extra H/Duty Spherical bearings 10. Manufactured not from soft billet alloy but ultimate aircraft 7075 grade aluminum (1.2 kilo)
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2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
KMAC is just trying to get the word out. These products require a bit of a hard sell as people would rather not have to spend any money to fix their alignment issues properly with fully adjustable suspension components.
I had KMAC bushings front and rear on my 2010, lowered on H&R, to get it to drive without pulling on level roads. I was happy with the quality and results of their products.
I have front and rear bushings and adjustable top plates for my 2012, lowered on KWV3, that does not pull at all. I will be installing them this winter so that I have a fully adjustable suspension and can fine tune my alignment even further to my liking.
12-12-2015, 09:29 PM
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