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-   -   Do all C63 pull to the right after H&R sport springs are installed? (https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w204/558103-do-all-c63-pull-right-after-h-r-sport-springs-installed.html)

Overrated 09-29-2014 06:52 PM

Do all C63 pull to the right after H&R sport springs are installed?
 
I have been reading and have talked to a few shops that install H&R sport springs on the C63, and the common complaint from everyone is that the car pulls to the right after install.

Has anyone installed them and not had this issue?

RW Carbon 09-29-2014 07:16 PM

Maybe because you need an alignment now.

AMGPower88 09-29-2014 08:13 PM

You need an alignment... Mine pulled to the left after installing H&R coilovers.. Fixed now with the alignment completed.

princealidds 09-29-2014 08:38 PM

Mine pulls to the right. I had it aligned and still no Bueno. Maybe because I had it aligned my MB dealership where I should have gone to a "racer shop". Idk?????

chrisridebike8 09-29-2014 09:41 PM

Mine tracks straight and true. No crash bolts were used. I went to an Indy shop.

Roswell 09-29-2014 11:52 PM

Mine drives straight on rails.. No aligment after 3 years of lowering. :D

Overrated 09-30-2014 12:05 AM


Originally Posted by Roswell (Post 6182734)
Mine drives straight on rails.. No aligment after 3 years of lowering. :D

Meng,

Looks like the pre-facelift cars don't have the pulling issue. Sure seems to be a 12+ Coupe issue.

Now I am not sure I want to install them.

Roswell 09-30-2014 12:16 AM

Nah, I read back in the days about that same issue so it's not only related to the coupe but also the pre-facelift sedan.

I was also worried at first, but my wheels needed a drop to look good.. So I took the chance & it worked out perfectly. I don't think I got lucky, just had a good mechanic do the install.

dchl21 09-30-2014 12:16 AM

all the Mercedes Ive ever owned all pull to the right slightly even after aligment ....very very slightly.

Overrated 09-30-2014 12:37 AM


Originally Posted by Roswell (Post 6182746)
Nah, I read back in the days about that same issue so it's not only related to the coupe but also the pre-facelift sedan.

I was also worried at first, but my wheels needed a drop to look good.. So I took the chance & it worked out perfectly. I don't think I got lucky, just had a good mechanic do the install.

Might be best to leave suspension stock. I really don't want to have a lousy handling car.

I will put the HRE's on a see how they look at stock height.

-Marlin- 09-30-2014 06:45 AM

I've had 3 MBs and they all pulled slight right.

Wobble64 09-30-2014 06:50 AM

Mine is a 14 507 Coupe with HR springs. Alignment was done after the install (of course) and it runs like on rails.


I can not imagine, why it should or even could be any other way, if it is done right!

intence 09-30-2014 01:19 PM

mine pulled to the right after alignment because of tirewear

AMGangster 09-30-2014 01:25 PM

My car has H&R springs and pulls right. Alignment had been checked several times and it's all good. Tires wear as good as I coild expect as well. I've learned to deal with it. I found on 4 lane highways its pulls left when in the left lane, so I chalk it up to the crown on the roads.

Overrated 09-30-2014 08:36 PM

Well, that sucks.

I am supposed to be installing them this upcoming weekend. I really don't want to mess up the suspension as the car handles very good now and drives straight as an arrow.

What to do.

tdotjag 09-30-2014 11:14 PM

From what I know about MB, they all pull ever so slightly to the right. I've been told this is a built in safety feature so the car will naturally veer away from traffic (in right hand driving countries) if the driver was to doze off.
If your car is pulling hard to the right, then as others have mentioned, it probably needs an alignment check.

Mort 10-01-2014 09:43 AM

I think you mean left hand drive countries. Right hand drive is England and Australia for example and NA is left hand drive. Remember left and right in a car is taken from your position seated behind the steering wheel.

604 C63 10-01-2014 11:13 AM


Originally Posted by Roswell (Post 6182734)
Mine drives straight on rails.. No aligment after 3 years of lowering. :D

I second that emotion.

roadtalontsi 10-05-2014 10:18 PM

most people also throw cheap tires on aftmkt wheels when they lower the car too which compounds the problem on top of needing an alignment.

VaclavSV 10-06-2014 08:03 AM

After installing H&R Springs ALL C63s will pull slightly right - even after alignment! This is what Ive been told from a shop that has done A LOT of H&R spring installs here in Toronto.

For those that said they installed and the car doesnt pull they are wrong because I did it in my P31 Sedan and had an alignment done twice! The car still pulled SLIGHTLY right!

chrisridebike8 10-06-2014 08:28 AM


Originally Posted by VaclavSV (Post 6188785)
After installing H&R Springs ALL C63s will pull slightly right - even after alignment! This is what Ive been told from a shop that has done A LOT of H&R spring installs here in Toronto.

For those that said they installed and the car doesnt pull they are wrong because I did it in my P31 Sedan and had an align
ment done twice! The car still pulled SLIGHTLY right!

Wow. That's a pretty bold statement. Have you gone and driven each one? I can tell you 100% that mine tracks straight after install and alignment done by a very competent shop.

VaclavSV 10-06-2014 10:01 AM


Originally Posted by chrisridebike8 (Post 6188794)
Wow. That's a pretty bold statement. Have you gone and driven each one? I can tell you 100% that mine tracks straight after install and alignment done by a very competent shop.

I havent but the guys in the shop have and I trust them. Also the 15+ C63 owners I know in Toronto who have had their cars all lowered on H&Rs admit their cars track slightly right.

I would love for you to post your alignment! Its virtually impossible to get it perfect using laser alignments. No matter what the car still pulls slightly right whether you are aware or not.
http://i.imgur.com/3tjufZW.jpg

chrisridebike8 10-06-2014 10:16 AM


Originally Posted by VaclavSV (Post 6188862)
I havent but the guys in the shop have and I trust them. Also the 15+ C63 owners I know in Toronto who have had their cars all lowered on H&Rs admit their cars track slightly right.

I would love for you to post your alignment! Its virtually impossible to get it perfect using laser alignments. No matter what the car still pulls slightly right whether you are aware or not.
http://i.imgur.com/3tjufZW.jpg

My alignment is in there.

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-h-r-drop.html

And the majority of roads in North American have a slight slope of crown towards the shoulder. Some also have them towards the center or left. Our cars are pretty sensitive to crown. With a right sloping road, yes the car fades right. Same with a left crown. And on roads that are pretty much flat, the car does not pull or fade to either side. Prior to installing the springs, my car did fade to the right a little as you have mentioned. On left crowns when stock, it would hold straight. Now on the same roads it just follows the crown.

silversleeper48 10-06-2014 11:05 AM

There have been many threads here about this and basically what those threads say is that you need to buy adjustable alignment bolts and the stock ones are not adjustable... after that it track true... hope this helps



https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...164da45330.jpg

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...lls-right.html




Originally Posted by Overrated (Post 6182437)
I have been reading and have talked to a few shops that install H&R sport springs on the C63, and the common complaint from everyone is that the car pulls to the right after install.

Has anyone installed them and not had this issue?


TruspeedRacecru 01-19-2015 06:30 PM

Alignment after H&R install
 
Hi All,
At the risk of beating a dead horse, I just wanted to see if I understand what is going on here. I lowered the car and added 12MM spacers. I then aligned the car. I would'nt say it "pulled" right but she did "drift" to the right if I took my hands off the wheel on an interstate. I never noticed this tendency before i did the lowering so was a little concerned.
I work at a race shop and have access to a very fine crew and all the best equipment. The tendency to move to the right is not noticeable when i':zoom:m "busy" just when cruising and is only mildly annoying. Am I being too picky?

Will adjustable camber bolts cure the issue and if so how are they used on the W204.
Cheers.

ld63 01-19-2015 06:55 PM

Another owner here with H&R springs. Yep, pulls to the right pretty hard if I let off the wheel.

It's not bothered me enough to fix it in 6 or so months since lowering. The plan has been to get KW V3s, at which point I'll likely get an alignment.

roadtalontsi 01-19-2015 10:04 PM

post alignment specs. Just because things are in "green" doesnt mean they are good. road surface, road crown and tires are very important considerations as well as the alignment.

K-Mac 01-20-2015 01:37 AM


Originally Posted by TruspeedRacecru (Post 6300870)
Hi All,
At the risk of beating a dead horse, I just wanted to see if I understand what is going on here. I lowered the car and added 12MM spacers. I then aligned the car. I would'nt say it "pulled" right but she did "drift" to the right if I took my hands off the wheel on an interstate. I never noticed this tendency before i did the lowering so was a little concerned.
I work at a race shop and have access to a very fine crew and all the best equipment. The tendency to move to the right is not noticeable when i':zoom:m "busy" just when cruising and is only mildly annoying. Am I being too picky?

Will adjustable camber bolts cure the issue and if so how are they used on the W204.
Cheers.





FACT IS THERE IS ONLY FRONT AND REAR TOE ADJUSTMENT OEM!


Camber or fluted bolts are inaccurate one position offering a minimal .3 of one degree (3mm / 1/8Ē).


Extra/full precise adjustment is what is needed to return vehicle to factory specs to correctly resolve steering pull, costly premature inner edge tire wear, curb knock damage along with improving hi-speed directional control, and steering response. With less dive/lift on brake/acceleration. Essential also if altering height, fitting wide profile tires/rims


We saw the need therefore to restore from the 1990ís full front and rear adjustment capability.



Front Camber and Caster. Rear Camber (with extra Toe) adjustment. The K-MAC patented designs allow ongoing precise adjustment on car (accurately under load direct on alignment rack). Unlike the fluted bolts which require labour intensive disassembly each time.


Result - no more constant changing tire brands or visits to alignment shops!


https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...-suggest-4.jpghttps://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...ari-grey-5.jpg

w204nyc 04-19-2015 12:11 PM

Anyone have any issues with a clunking noise by the front going over bumps at low speeds?

Huchimo01 08-16-2015 02:12 AM

How long is it taking to install the H&R springs? Having to do it in the garage instead of the auto hobby shop lift due to mechanical issues. I've changed several sets of springs on various cars, but not on an MB. Just curious to get an idea of time so I can get the necessary tools together. Thanks in advance.

Huch

Mort 08-16-2015 11:16 AM

It will take 4 to 8 hours. I think it took me 6 first try. On the front you need to take the springs off the struts (which I had never done before) and on the rear you need to drop the exhaust some to get the rear lower control arm bolt out. Make sure you have a good spring compressor. I had to figure out how to do all this so that took a little time and head scratching. Just pop the donuts off the exhaust hangers and it will drop just enough to get the bolt out over the top of the pipe. Put it back in from the front so it is not a problem next time. I used a 23" mechanics pry bar to work the donuts off and back on. Makes relatively easy work of it. Put jack stands under the mufflers to take up some of the strain on the forward parts of the exhaust. GL

Roswell 08-16-2015 07:25 PM

^^ this man knows his car.

My shop also told me about the exhaust being in the way of the rear suspension.

boosting1bar 08-16-2015 07:26 PM

lol my car pulls to the right after putting my H&Rs on! We've aligned it twice and it still does it

Phorte 08-17-2015 12:18 AM

Had mine installed around a week ago and haven't realigned yet (still letting it settle) and it still tracks straight and doesn't pull to any side. Will do alignment again soon tho.

Mort 08-17-2015 10:20 AM


Originally Posted by Phorte (Post 6528732)
Had mine installed around a week ago and haven't realigned yet (still letting it settle) and it still tracks straight and doesn't pull to any side. Will do alignment again soon tho.

You are fortunate and will likely only need a small toe adjustment. There is no other adjustment on the C63 front or rear without swapping in new bolts on the front so you are lucky if it is not pulling right.

Mort 08-17-2015 10:29 AM


Originally Posted by boosting1bar (Post 6528568)
lol my car pulls to the right after putting my H&Rs on! We've aligned it twice and it still does it

It is a bit of an art to adjust for the pull and not all alignment techs have it. You might have to find another shop that understands the process. Did they try the adjustment bolts? They only add or subtract a fixed amount from the OEM setting. Try getting them to set the caster more positive on the passenger side and see if that works. That is the same setting that would be used to counteract roads with a lot of crown built into them to get water to run off the road surface during heavy rains. GL

Phorte 08-17-2015 11:23 AM


Originally Posted by Mort (Post 6528943)
You are fortunate and will likely only need a small toe adjustment. There is no other adjustment on the C63 front or rear without swapping in new bolts on the front so you are lucky if it is not pulling right.

i actually bought the recommended bolts that a few people mentioned in here to pre-emp the alignment. will see if they're needed when i get it done.

part number: 000-333-10-71

Roswell 08-17-2015 08:24 PM


Originally Posted by Phorte (Post 6528732)
Had mine installed around a week ago and haven't realigned yet (still letting it settle) and it still tracks straight and doesn't pull to any side. Will do alignment again soon tho.

Same here, installed mine 4 years ago & never had an aligment .. Drives in rails! :zoom:

Jasonoff 08-17-2015 08:48 PM


Originally Posted by Roswell (Post 6529572)
Same here, installed mine 4 years ago & never had an aligment .. Drives in rails! :zoom:

You realize the extra toe from the drop will prematurely wear your tires right?

Roswell 08-17-2015 10:05 PM

^^ yes but I drive my car 2k km a year & had 6 different sets of wheels/tires in 5 years so tire wears is not an issue for me lol

Jasonoff 08-18-2015 09:19 AM


Originally Posted by Roswell (Post 6529674)
^^ yes but I drive my car 2k km a year & had 6 different sets of wheels/tires in 5 years so tire wears is not an issue for me lol

Waaaay cheaper to just get an alignment you know :rolf:

Huchimo01 10-12-2015 10:19 AM

It took me and my buddy about 2 hours on a lift. We also didn't have to remove any other bolts or hardware to access the springs. We did have a spring compressor mounted on the wall that made things a bit easier, however the pulling issue is very noticeable.

The alignment reads as fine but it still pulls. We allowed the springs time to settle but it still pulls to the right. Alignment machine still reads fine. I'm calling H&R to discuss this and will remove them if we can't sort it out. I'm running the Texas Mile in two weeks and don't want to deal with this issue then. There are more options with springs so not an issue for me if they aren't H&R springs . Just my two cents.

Wobble64 10-12-2015 10:58 AM

very very strange. I am running H&Rs for more than a year - never pulled in any direction. Could'nt be happier. However, there are enough reports to be concerning. Please do share what you learn.

Huchimo01 10-12-2015 12:36 PM

I keep reading these comments that say if the install is done correctly then there should not be any pull at all. This is a pretty lame statement because firstly there can't be this many spring installs performed by experienced shops having the same identical problem. The second thing is there isn't really anything in the spring install in itself that can be incorrectly done. Sure I guess if you've never done this before then maybe you shouldn't be doing this work.

For a reasonably experienced car person this is pretty simple. I'm still not sure why the exhaust bolts needed to be removed. We did mine on a lift and it was pretty straight forward.

Ok, so I just spoke with H&R and this guy Michael didn't seem to have much knowledge on springs in general, but he said they hadn't heard about this problem. I told him he should maybe head to this forum and do a little reading as it isn't a new problem. He basically said get camber adjustment bolts or remove the springs. I'm thinking what a load of horsecrap. So now I'm going to look at something else and see what happens. I'll keep youse guys In the loop there.

Roswell 10-12-2015 02:07 PM

Sorry to hear about ur pulling Huchi, it must be indeed frustrating.. But I still believe the new longer bolts should fix ur problem. Like Mort said, w/o blaming ur aligment tech, getting the aligment right is almost an art for this car. Try the bolts first, if it fails then sell the springs.. But there isn't many options for springs for our cars. I don't think Eibach makes it for the C63.

w204nyc 10-12-2015 02:39 PM


Originally Posted by Roswell (Post 6582061)
Sorry to hear about ur pulling Huchi, it must be indeed frustrating.. But I still believe the new longer bolts should fix ur problem. Like Mort said, w/o blaming ur aligment tech, getting the aligment right is almost an art for this car. Try the bolts first, if it fails then sell the springs.. But there isn't many options for springs for our cars. I don't think Eibach makes it for the C63.

Mine still pulls a lot to the right after 3 alignments. I'm gonna have to check the control arms at the dealership

604 C63 10-12-2015 02:41 PM


Originally Posted by Huchimo01 (Post 6581832)
I'm running the Texas Mile in two weeks and don't want to deal with this issue then. There are more options with springs so not an issue for me if they aren't H&R springs . Just my two cents.

If you are going to run the Texas Mile I personally think I would pull them anyways, as I find them a little.......floaty. Of course, I came off a set of P30 springs, and those have all the plushness of a stack of hockey pucks :) Ive never driven on a runway, but Ive always been of the impression that they are a series of slight undulations for drainage purposes and I would prefer something stiffer than the H&Rs at that speed/distance.

Oh, and as to your original question - no pull here.

Huchimo01 10-12-2015 04:52 PM

If my car isnt pulling right then guess what? It isn't pulling right. I know my car just a tad better than you and that's all I have to say about that ..

Huchimo01 10-12-2015 04:56 PM

Yep I just posted a response to that as well. Some folks believe they know much more than what reality will allow. But hey he's welcome to say almost whatever he wants-we won't argue that he's wrong. Ok I will. I will. He's wrong. .. Ba Da Bing. Be Da Boom ...

Roswell 10-12-2015 05:17 PM


Originally Posted by Huchimo01 (Post 6582248)
If my car isnt pulling right then guess what? It isn't pulling right. I know my car just a tad better than you and that's all I have to say about that ..


Originally Posted by Huchimo01 (Post 6582255)
Yep I just posted a response to that as well. Some folks believe they know much more than what reality will allow. But hey he's welcome to say almost whatever he wants-we won't argue that he's wrong. Ok I will. I will. He's wrong. .. Ba Da Bing. Be Da Boom ...

I don't know who u are replying to, but I think everyone here is trying to help u find the cause & a solution to ur pulling.

As I suggested, my friend resolved his pulling by installing the longer aligment bolts, if that fails then u don't have much choice then to remove the springs & buy Coilovers but be aware some ppl also have pulling on Coilovers.

Eibach only makes springs for regular C unfortunately.

604 C63 10-12-2015 06:56 PM


Originally Posted by Roswell (Post 6582271)
I don't know who u are replying to, but I think everyone here is trying to help u find the cause & a solution to ur pulling.

^^^^^THIS. Yet again, I find Roswell perfectly expressing my thoughts.

But who ARE you talking to Huchimo? That was so out of left field. Nobody is giving you are a hard time here.

w204nyc 10-12-2015 07:07 PM


Originally Posted by Roswell (Post 6582271)
I don't know who u are replying to, but I think everyone here is trying to help u find the cause & a solution to ur pulling.

As I suggested, my friend resolved his pulling by installing the longer aligment bolts, if that fails then u don't have much choice then to remove the springs & buy Coilovers but be aware some ppl also have pulling on Coilovers.

Eibach only makes springs for regular C unfortunately.

roswell where can
i get longer bolts?

Roswell 10-12-2015 07:20 PM

From a quick search, deslership sells them but not cheap (300$).. Maybe a sponsor here like TAL @ ACG might have it cheaper.

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ent-bolts.html

Edit: 300$ was including install & alignment.

Huchimo01 10-12-2015 08:22 PM

Hey Roswell,

I understand everyone is trying to help. My comment was related to one from last year where someone said that if someone's car didn't pull to the right they were wrong. It was a comment from someone who doesn't seem to know much about cars, but that's ok. My comments were in no way associated with any comments made recently or to my own problem. So I say thanks to everyone who has given some good advice.

As far as the longer camber/caster bolts, I am wondering if they are actually going to be long enough. I then read where the K-Mac kit is available. Has anyone installed that kit on their AMG? It seems like a lot of money, but if it will make the pulling go away then I feel I need to give it a good thinking over. I will give them a call and see what they say tomorrow.

Again thanks for all of the input from everyone, and I apologize if anyone took my own comments in the wrong way. My issues stem from folks who think they have all of the answers when they just don't. Every single car is so different from the next one.

So if anyone has used the K-Max kit I'd love to know how it worked out for them. Thanks again to all.

Cheers

Wobble64 10-12-2015 08:28 PM

I am running the K-Mac camber kit as we speak. My setup is 3 degrees camber in the front and 2 degrees in the back. I have HR springs also. The car runs totally straight and true and always has - before and after HR springs and before and after K-Mac.

patrickkc 10-12-2015 09:48 PM

mine pulls to the right slightly as well.

Friend also has it on his 2012 and also pulls to the right.

Roswell 10-12-2015 10:56 PM

No worries, just press the "quote" button at the bottom of the member's post u want to reply to, it will avoid confusion. ;)

Try to compare ur alignment specs with the specs I linked earlier. It might guide u in the right direction. Sorry if I can't be of any more help as I never had this issue nor did an alignment.


Originally Posted by Huchimo01 (Post 6582415)
Hey Roswell,

I understand everyone is trying to help. My comment was related to one from last year where someone said that if someone's car didn't pull to the right they were wrong. It was a comment from someone who doesn't seem to know much about cars, but that's ok. My comments were in no way associated with any comments made recently or to my own problem. So I say thanks to everyone who has given some good advice.

As far as the longer camber/caster bolts, I am wondering if they are actually going to be long enough. I then read where the K-Mac kit is available. Has anyone installed that kit on their AMG? It seems like a lot of money, but if it will make the pulling go away then I feel I need to give it a good thinking over. I will give them a call and see what they say tomorrow.

Again thanks for all of the input from everyone, and I apologize if anyone took my own comments in the wrong way. My issues stem from folks who think they have all of the answers when they just don't. Every single car is so different from the next one.

So if anyone has used the K-Max kit I'd love to know how it worked out for them. Thanks again to all.

Cheers


w204nyc 10-14-2015 10:06 PM

Just got my car back from the dealers, seems i had a broken right front sway bar link, they replaced it. Still pulls to the right but not as bad

roadtalontsi 10-20-2015 10:14 PM

all of it is in the alignment. You said you checked it and it was good. Good meaning everything is in the green? or what. Green doesnt = good. it means it's within the recommended tolerances. Post up the specs and Ill tell you whats up.

tpliquid 01-02-2016 10:58 PM

I just installed hr Springs in the front. Took it for test drive it pulls to the right. Let off the wheel and then starts going to the right.

AMG3.2 01-03-2016 02:09 AM


Originally Posted by tpliquid (Post 6662738)
I just installed hr Springs in the front. Took it for test drive it pulls to the right. Let off the wheel and then starts going to the right.

Time for some alignment bolts. Best thing to do would be to go get an alignment reading and post your specs up here so others can guide you on what to do.

I got a reading at Auto Innovations in Milpitas for $40. GREAT! Group of guys.

tpliquid 01-03-2016 02:42 AM

They are my goto place for tires and alignment. But you bad I am in la now. Will get alignment specs once I install the rears

Wobble64 01-03-2016 08:43 AM

Most places will give you free alignment checks for a while after doing alignments there, some for 3 years. So you can go back and have them run a reading and give you a print out any time.

tpliquid 01-06-2016 08:53 PM

heres my alignment after all 4 springs are in, still pulls to right, steering wheel have to be canted to the left


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...7af92c84be.jpg

tpliquid 01-07-2016 11:50 AM


Originally Posted by AMG3.2 (Post 6662852)
Time for some alignment bolts. Best thing to do would be to go get an alignment reading and post your specs up here so others can guide you on what to do.

I got a reading at Auto Innovations in Milpitas for $40. GREAT! Group of guys.

are the bolts easy to install?

tpliquid 03-15-2016 06:15 PM

I installed the camber bolts this past weekend. Was easy peasy 10-15 min per side.

First i pulled driver side camber in. took for test drive. Steering wheel canted to the right by alot. Car still pulled to the right. Then I installed the pass side and pulled in the camber. Took for test drive, car pulled to the right but less pull.
Test drove the car with new wheels and tires with 60 miles on them before the camber adjust.

Found out rear tire was leaking so i swapped back the OEM wheels and test drove it. With both camber pulled in and original wheels the car pulled very slight to the right. I can see the toe needs to be adjusted. Will report back after toe adjustment.

tpliquid 03-17-2016 02:27 PM

Update: Got the car aligned again today.

Looks like the shop who aligned my car before might have problem with the rear right sensor because it is off.
Car now tracks straight.
I guess the solution for me was to pull the camber in on both sides and re align it.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...0da8d0aae8.jpg



Previous alignment:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...a88af3abc1.jpg

Adam Chambers 02-22-2017 05:14 PM

Add another one to the list. Mine is pulling to the right now after the spring install, and before and after alignment. Did the install myself so may take the front back apart and reinstall. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...1759a947be.jpgBefore
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...0fdf047017.jpgAfterAnyone ever figure out the issue? Also if I install the camber bolts will it affect the other geometry?

tpliquid 02-22-2017 05:18 PM

install camber bolt will affect the toe. my drives straight on stock 18 with stock tire. with my 19 and falken tires it pulls to the right.

Adam Chambers 02-22-2017 05:19 PM

Forgot to mention I am on stock 18's.

Adam Chambers 02-23-2017 08:42 AM

Should I get 2 bolts for the front or go ahead and get 4?

Jasonoff 02-23-2017 08:57 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here's my alignment. Car doesn't pull to the right on my summers (that I did the alignment with) but does on my winters.

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...1&d=1487858247

s.e.a.n. 02-23-2017 10:42 AM

From what I gather all C63's pull to the rights once you lower the car it will get worse. When you align the car you need to install a caster bolt and that will aid it getting the car straight.

Jasonoff 02-23-2017 11:27 AM


Originally Posted by s.e.a.n. (Post 7064845)
From what I gather all C63's pull to the rights once you lower the car it will get worse. When you align the car you need to install a caster bolt and that will aid it getting the car straight.

Yeah, It's likely the caster difference causing it to pull.

AMGonFire 02-23-2017 08:06 PM

I have springs in my basement. Hoping to install soon, but thinking twice. How bad does it pull to the right? Only if you let go of wheel? Or can you tell it wants to go right even holding the wheel? I want the look not sure I want a bad drivability issue though. Seems like a lot of people have them must not be that bad if some are ok with it.

Adam Chambers 02-23-2017 08:51 PM

Some people will decide to live with it. For me, I won't settle for worse drivability than before the springs so if the bolts and playing with the alignment don't fix it I will go back to stock springs. I love the stance right now but it's not worth it.

Honestly it's not terrible but it does want to go right, worse than just the crown of the road. I've got to keep pressure on the wheel to keep it straight.

AMGonFire 02-23-2017 09:16 PM


Originally Posted by Adam Chambers (Post 7065479)
Some people will decide to live with it. For me, I won't settle for worse drivability than before the springs so if the bolts and playing with the alignment don't fix it I will go back to stock springs. I love the stance right now but it's not worth it.

Honestly it's not terrible but it does want to go right, worse than just the crown of the road. I've got to keep pressure on the wheel to keep it straight.

so is it the camber bolt you need also saw mention of a castor bolt? Where do you get these?

Adam Chambers 02-23-2017 09:20 PM

they are all the same bolt. Two per side on the front. One for Camber, one for caster. I got them at the local dealer, $25 each. Part number 0003331071

Jasonoff 02-23-2017 09:22 PM

The K-Mac front caster/camber parts will have you sorted. It's not cheap though.

http://www.k-mac.com/product/mercede...h-kit-502616k/

AMGonFire 02-23-2017 09:28 PM


Originally Posted by Adam Chambers (Post 7065509)
they are all the same bolt. Two per side on the front. One for Camber, one for caster. I got them at the local dealer, $25 each. Part number 0003331071

don't know much about alignment stuff. So pardon my dumb questions, but why didn't Mercedes include these bolts with the car? They have a spot for them but you need to buy the bolts. I guess what I'm asking is why does Mercedes even have these they don't provide a lowering spring through them. Confused.

Adam Chambers 02-23-2017 09:30 PM

from what I understand they call them crash bolts. so if stuff gets out of wack it gives a little more adjustability.

AMGonFire 02-23-2017 09:34 PM


Originally Posted by Adam Chambers (Post 7065509)
they are all the same bolt. Two per side on the front. One for Camber, one for caster. I got them at the local dealer, $25 each. Part number 0003331071

also looked up the part number. Appears to be for a 2011. Would this work on a 2012 as well? Or is there a different part number for that?

AMGonFire 02-23-2017 09:36 PM


Originally Posted by Adam Chambers (Post 7065518)
from what I understand they call them crash bolts. so if stuff gets out of wack it gives a little more adjustability.

ok makes sense. I would assume most shops who do alignments know what to do with these I'd assume? Let us know how these work out for you. When will you be installing them?

Adam Chambers 02-23-2017 09:38 PM

Taking it back in tomorrow. I didn't install the Bolts because after talking to the tech he said they may only need 1 or 2 or 3 or all 4. So will have them use whatever they need and then return the rest.

AMGonFire 02-23-2017 10:17 PM


Originally Posted by Adam Chambers (Post 7065526)
Taking it back in tomorrow. I didn't install the Bolts because after talking to the tech he said they may only need 1 or 2 or 3 or all 4. So will have them use whatever they need and then return the rest.

how bad is your pull are you fighting the wheel?

Adam Chambers 02-24-2017 08:16 AM


Originally Posted by AMGonFire (Post 7065546)
how bad is your pull are you fighting the wheel?

bad enough where if I am on the left lane on the highway with the crown going to the left it still wants to drift right.

Adam Chambers 02-25-2017 01:53 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I took it to Mercedes this morning. They had to use 3 bolts, to correct everything and now it is driving straight. Ended up costing a total of $350 for the alignment/3 bolts/labor. Attachment 349747

AMGonFire 02-25-2017 02:42 PM


Originally Posted by Adam Chambers (Post 7067005)
I took it to Mercedes this morning. They had to use 3 bolts, to correct everything and now it is driving straight. Ended up costing a total of $350 for the alignment/3 bolts/labor. Attachment 349747

good to hear! So you would recommend going to Mercedes over a Indy shop?

Adam Chambers 02-25-2017 02:44 PM

Unless it's an Indy shop that specializes in Mercs, yeah I think dealer is your best bet. Save headaches and get it done right the first time.

Mort 02-25-2017 05:17 PM


Originally Posted by AMGonFire (Post 7067053)
good to hear! So you would recommend going to Mercedes over a Indy shop?

It really depends more on the ability of the tech at whatever shop you go to. I took mine to our local dealer and he put the bolts in fine but not so it would reduce the pull from being lowered. Just excuses from him after that. You need to got to someone that knows what locations to put the bolts in to reduce the pull.

Adam Chambers 02-25-2017 06:02 PM


Originally Posted by Mort
It really depends more on the ability of the tech at whatever shop you go to. I took mine to our local dealer and he put the bolts in fine but not so it would reduce the pull from being lowered. Just excuses from him after that. You need to got to someone that knows what locations to put the bolts in to reduce the pull.

Agreed. Mechanic at my dealership was awesome. Noticed me leaving in the car and came out and talked for a while about how he got it all set up and why there was an extra .5 hour charge on there to remove the sway bar to get one of the bolts in. (Something I didn't even question) Pretty happy with my dealer.

gforc3 04-09-2017 09:49 AM

Really would like to drop my coupe and do spacers but so many people saying the car pulls right has me concerned.

http://www.mboemparts.com/oe-mercedes-benz/0003331071

If I get two of those bolts the issue will be resolved?

Sick AF 04-19-2017 07:27 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I'm another C that pulls hard to the right.

I had H&R springs installed and the car pulled slightly. Gave them a couple weeks to settle.
Last week, I had 4 new tires mounted & balanced and alignment done at a highly recommended shop.
Mechanic drove it around the block, comes back and says it's a "little floaty, give it a few hundred miles and see. If that doesn't help, swap the fronts, sometimes the tread prefers to roll in opposite direction."
I don't find it floaty at all. It's clear the car pulls hard to the right. Worse than before.

Gonna swap the fronts tomorrow and see if that makes any difference. Also want to check control arms and bushings. Maybe something is bent that I don't know about. I am the 2nd owner. Carfax shows 1 rear end collision.

Also, not sure if it matters, but as I took this picture, I noticed the car info is wrong at the top. Printout says "CL...NOT M156"

:beatdeadh Sorry to beat a dead horse, but these camber bolts are the remedy?


Originally Posted by Jasonoff (Post 7065510)
The K-Mac front caster/camber parts will have you sorted. It's not cheap though.

http://www.k-mac.com/product/mercede...h-kit-502616k/


tpliquid 04-19-2017 07:37 PM


Originally Posted by Adam Chambers (Post 7067005)
I took it to Mercedes this morning. They had to use 3 bolts, to correct everything and now it is driving straight. Ended up costing a total of $350 for the alignment/3 bolts/labor. Attachment 349747

Did they say where the 3rd bolt was installed?

i assume 2 were for camber

Crya 01-30-2018 04:11 PM

Hey all, I've got a new-to-me '09 with 64,500 miles and in the few weeks of ownership, I've noticed a healthy pull to the right. At first I was paranoid it was because I swapped on a CF wheel and perhaps misaligned on re-install but I can tell it's partly the road crown pulling it. I have stock springs, brand new PSS in fronts, and 18". Can anyone offer any expertise on whether the crash bolts would help sort it out? I mean, please correct me, but even if you have perfect alignment, shouldn't your car still pull right on the road due to the crowning effect? Should I also try and move my steering wheel another notch right?

curt.r 07-11-2018 04:40 PM

Just got my C63 aligned after an H&R spring install. It tracks straight now, but I'd like to correct the camber specs. Does anyone know how many crash bolts I need and where do I put them? Thanks in advance :y

https://i.imgur.com/DcjwpIGl.jpg

gtracer 07-12-2018 09:49 AM

You can get 2 or 4. Putting 4 in will also play with the caster which will reduce camber a bit but not much,

curt.r 07-13-2018 02:45 AM


Originally Posted by gtracer (Post 7500215)
You can get 2 or 4. Putting 4 in will also play with the caster which will reduce camber a bit but not much,

I'd like to correct the camber as much as possible. More likely though, I'd like to get the driver's side camber close to matching the passenger side. Mort suggested I install one crash bolt to adjust my driver's side camber by +/- .3 degrees to get it closer to matching the passenger side. Do you know where to install this bolt? I've read that the install is fairly simple but I have yet to see where people install the crash bolt :nix:

gtracer 07-13-2018 12:38 PM


Originally Posted by curt.r (Post 7500815)
I'd like to correct the camber as much as possible. More likely though, I'd like to get the driver's side camber close to matching the passenger side. Mort suggested I install one crash bolt to adjust my driver's side camber by +/- .3 degrees to get it closer to matching the passenger side. Do you know where to install this bolt? I've read that the install is fairly simple but I have yet to see where people install the crash bolt :nix:

Fairly self explanatory once you get under the car. Its the arm that would add or reduce camber, the other would affect caster. You're essentially changing the bolt that holds the arm to the subframe. The slot in the crash bolt allows for a slight change.

I'd buy 2 of them so that when you get realigned, if need be you can put the other one in and save yourself another trip to get aligned.

curt.r 07-13-2018 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by gtracer (Post 7501005)
Fairly self explanatory once you get under the car. Its the arm that would add or reduce camber, the other would affect caster. You're essentially changing the bolt that holds the arm to the subframe. The slot in the crash bolt allows for a slight change.

I'd buy 2 of them so that when you get realigned, if need be you can put the other one in and save yourself another trip to get aligned.

Okay, seems pretty self-explanatory once I get under the car. I'll shop around and see where I can find the crash bolts the cheapest. Thanks for your help!

roadtalontsi 07-15-2018 09:37 PM

bolts are only about 20$ each from the dealer. They arent crash bolts people. they are adjustment bolts. Id go ahead and get 2. pull left trol arm in and push right control arm right. Your car should have a pretty healthy pull to the right with those specs.

And to the post above this. - Crya - If you are a notch off on the steering wheel the only way to really know is looking at actual values of the steering angle sensor. I'd highly recommened leaving it as is unless you know its messed up. the Steering wheel position can also be adjusted with toe adjustment. go get an alignment if you're concerned - from someone who knows what they're doing.

curt.r 07-16-2018 12:03 AM


Originally Posted by roadtalontsi (Post 7502448)
bolts are only about 20$ each from the dealer. They arent crash bolts people. they are adjustment bolts. Id go ahead and get 2. pull left trol arm in and push right control arm right. Your car should have a pretty healthy pull to the right with those specs.

I'm going to go to the dealer on Monday and see what they quote me for 2. From OEPartsDiscount I found it was the cheapest at $20.62/bolt. Most likely I'll be purchasing them online as MB Pleasanton loves to have a huge markup on their parts (I'm predicting they'll charge me upwards of $28/bolt). I read people calling them crash bolts, so naturally I assumed that was the bolt's name... but we all know what happens when people assume; adjustment bolts, got it. As far as the pulling goes, I wouldn't describe my car having a healthy pull to the right. I would say it is more sensitive to the crown of the road. On flat ground (i.e. a parking lot) it drives straight but on a crowned road it pulls left or right respectively. I thought the same as you after reading my specs, but surprisingly not. Thanks roadtalontsi for your help, your advice solidifies my dilemma of 1 or 2 bolts. I will keep you guys updated.

curt.r 07-16-2018 06:11 PM


Originally Posted by curt.r (Post 7502511)
I'm going to go to the dealer on Monday and see what they quote me for 2. From OEPartsDiscount I found it was the cheapest at $20.62/bolt. Most likely I'll be purchasing them online as MB Pleasanton loves to have a huge markup on their parts (I'm predicting they'll charge me upwards of $28/bolt). I read people calling them crash bolts, so naturally I assumed that was the bolt's name... but we all know what happens when people assume; adjustment bolts, got it. As far as the pulling goes, I wouldn't describe my car having a healthy pull to the right. I would say it is more sensitive to the crown of the road. On flat ground (i.e. a parking lot) it drives straight but on a crowned road it pulls left or right respectively. I thought the same as you after reading my specs, but surprisingly not. Thanks roadtalontsi for your help, your advice solidifies my dilemma of 1 or 2 bolts. I will keep you guys updated.

Went to MB Pleasanton today to get a quote on the adjustment bolts. They quoted me $38 + tax per bolt. I thanked them for their time and sprinted out of there. I placed an order at OEPartsDiscount and hopefully it'll come in within the next week or two. Update to come then.

roadtalontsi 07-18-2018 01:19 AM

lol 38$!!! wow thats impressive.

curt.r 09-14-2018 12:28 AM

Just wanted to give an update since I lowered the car. I have the bolts, but haven't put them in yet (stupid me, I know... kicking myself for it but it will all makes sense after reading this). I've put around 2,000 miles on the car since then and like @roadtalontsi stated, I do have a pretty healthy pull to the right. Must have something to do with the springs settling, or I have no clue... The pull became more noticeable as the miles rolled on. It's nothing too bad, just getting to the point where I'm tired of constantly steering a degree counterclockwise to counteract it. I also decided to check my tires and see how they're wearing from the excessive camber I have in the front. The rear tires are doing OK, no excessive camber wear, but the fronts are not doing so well. They have worn down all the tread on the inside of the tire (no cords showing yet, thankfully). I've decided to stop driving the car as of now and it has been sitting for the past couple weeks. I've decided that there's no use for installing the adjustment bolts, as it will not fix my problem. I'm going to be placing an order for the K-MAC front camber/toe bushing kit and having that installed by a shop. I'm at the point with my tires where I can still save them as long as I correct this issue now. These MPSS's are less than a year old and have 75% tread life left. Very disappointed in myself for trying to save a few bucks... once the bushing kit is installed I'm going to take off the wheels and do a through inspection of the tires.

Here is the link & part number to the K-MAC bushing kit if anyone is interested: https://k-mac.com/product/mercedes-w...shing-502616k/
Part Number: 502616K

sventastic82 09-14-2018 02:41 PM


Originally Posted by curt.r (Post 7553755)
Just wanted to give an update since I lowered the car. I have the bolts, but haven't put them in yet (stupid me, I know... kicking myself for it but it will all makes sense after reading this). I've put around 2,000 miles on the car since then and like @roadtalontsi stated, I do have a pretty healthy pull to the right. Must have something to do with the springs settling, or I have no clue... The pull became more noticeable as the miles rolled on. It's nothing too bad, just getting to the point where I'm tired of constantly steering a degree counterclockwise to counteract it. I also decided to check my tires and see how they're wearing from the excessive camber I have in the front. The rear tires are doing OK, no excessive camber wear, but the fronts are not doing so well. They have worn down all the tread on the inside of the tire (no cords showing yet, thankfully). I've decided to stop driving the car as of now and it has been sitting for the past couple weeks. I've decided that there's no use for installing the adjustment bolts, as it will not fix my problem. I'm going to be placing an order for the K-MAC front camber/toe bushing kit and having that installed by a shop. I'm at the point with my tires where I can still save them as long as I correct this issue now. These MPSS's are less than a year old and have 75% tread life left. Very disappointed in myself for trying to save a few bucks... once the bushing kit is installed I'm going to take off the wheels and do a through inspection of the tires.

Here is the link & part number to the K-MAC bushing kit if anyone is interested: https://k-mac.com/product/mercedes-w...shing-502616k/
Part Number: 502616K

Your tire wear is most likely due because of negative toe more than the camber. I just went through the same issue and just replaced my front tires. It's the second car I put the springs in and both had the same issue.
I would get the toe corrected as soon as possible before installing bushings.

west coast 09-14-2018 04:30 PM


Originally Posted by curt.r (Post 7553755)
Just wanted to give an update since I lowered the car. I have the bolts, but haven't put them in yet (stupid me, I know... kicking myself for it but it will all makes sense after reading this). I've put around 2,000 miles on the car since then and like @roadtalontsi stated, I do have a pretty healthy pull to the right. Must have something to do with the springs settling, or I have no clue... The pull became more noticeable as the miles rolled on. It's nothing too bad, just getting to the point where I'm tired of constantly steering a degree counterclockwise to counteract it. I also decided to check my tires and see how they're wearing from the excessive camber I have in the front. The rear tires are doing OK, no excessive camber wear, but the fronts are not doing so well. They have worn down all the tread on the inside of the tire (no cords showing yet, thankfully). I've decided to stop driving the car as of now and it has been sitting for the past couple weeks. I've decided that there's no use for installing the adjustment bolts, as it will not fix my problem. I'm going to be placing an order for the K-MAC front camber/toe bushing kit and having that installed by a shop. I'm at the point with my tires where I can still save them as long as I correct this issue now. These MPSS's are less than a year old and have 75% tread life left. Very disappointed in myself for trying to save a few bucks... once the bushing kit is installed I'm going to take off the wheels and do a through inspection of the tires.

Here is the link & part number to the K-MAC bushing kit if anyone is interested: https://k-mac.com/product/mercedes-w...shing-502616k/
Part Number: 502616K

Just curious, did you do an alignment following the spring install?

curt.r 09-14-2018 04:41 PM


Originally Posted by sventastic82 (Post 7554135)
Your tire wear is most likely due because of negative toe more than the camber. I just went through the same issue and just replaced my front tires. It's the second car I put the springs in and both had the same issue.
I would get the toe corrected as soon as possible before installing bushings.

Interesting... I guess it'll be worth a shot to get the toe adjusted, but the camber is still way off. I have a decent amount of camber in my driver front side. I had the car aligned after the springs settled a couple months ago and I attached the specs below.


Originally Posted by west coast (Post 7554227)
Just curious, did you do an alignment following the spring install?

Yeah, I got an alignment done a week and a half after the springs got installed to allow for settling. I attached my alignment specs below:
https://i.imgur.com/DcjwpIGl.jpg
​​​​​​​

sventastic82 09-14-2018 05:37 PM


Originally Posted by curt.r (Post 7554233)
Interesting... I guess it'll be worth a shot to get the toe adjusted, but the camber is still way off. I have a decent amount of camber in my driver front side. I had the car aligned after the springs settled a couple months ago and I attached the specs below.


Yeah, I got an alignment done a week and a half after the springs got installed to allow for settling. I attached my alignment specs below:
https://i.imgur.com/DcjwpIGl.jpg

here is what my tires looked like after a 1000miles
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...99d6bee5e.jpeg
. It could be that your tires wore out just during the time between spring install and alignment.

Going by your current alignment your car should be pulling to the left.

west coast 09-14-2018 08:39 PM


Originally Posted by sventastic82 (Post 7554265)


here is what my tires looked like after a 1000miles
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...99d6bee5e.jpeg
. It could be that your tires wore out just during the time between spring install and alignment.

Going by your current alignment your car should be pulling to the left.

If you think you are going to save those tires you are wrong, I wouldn't drive on those at all or you will have more serious issues than a poor alignment, they are way beyond done!!


sventastic82 09-14-2018 11:17 PM


Originally Posted by west coast (Post 7554378)
If you think you are going to save those tires you are wrong, I wouldn't drive on those at all or you will have more serious issues than a poor alignment, they are way beyond done!!

Iím getting at least another 1k miles out of them. Iím going to turn them inside out and use the good rubber.

Of course they are done and already replaced.

curt.r 09-15-2018 03:58 PM


Originally Posted by sventastic82 (Post 7554265)


here is what my tires looked like after a 1000miles
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...99d6bee5e.jpeg
. It could be that your tires wore out just during the time between spring install and alignment.

Going by your current alignment your car should be pulling to the left.

It could be possible, but being that I only put about 300 highway miles on my car (maybe even less) while I was waiting for the springs to settle it is not likely. The car is definitely pulling to the right, I've never heard of a W204 pulling to the left after an H&R spring install.

sventastic82 09-15-2018 04:32 PM


Originally Posted by curt.r (Post 7554839)
It could be possible, but being that I only put about 300 highway miles on my car (maybe even less) while I was waiting for the springs to settle it is not likely. The car is definitely pulling to the right, I've never heard of a W204 pulling to the left after an H&R spring install.

Going by your alignment sheet it should slightly pull to the left. The before values indicate pulling to he right the curren to the left.

Thats why I said try to rotate your tires and see if it still pulls to the right. The wear of your tires could cause it to pull.

95viper 09-16-2018 02:07 AM

My CLS550 had a slight pull to right. Installed Camber bolts to reduce inner tire wear. Installed caster bolt on passenger side only to stop pull. Then had alignment and all is perfect.

curt.r 09-16-2018 08:26 PM


Originally Posted by sventastic82 (Post 7554858)


Going by your alignment sheet it should slightly pull to the left. The before values indicate pulling to he right the curren to the left.

Thats why I said try to rotate your tires and see if it still pulls to the right. The wear of your tires could cause it to pull.

Oh. IIRC, the MPSS have a dedicated outside tirewall, although I'm not 100% sure so don't quote me on it. I'll mention it to the indy shop I'm going to use before I buy the bushing kit. Thanks for the advice.


Originally Posted by 95viper (Post 7555129)
My CLS550 had a slight pull to right. Installed Camber bolts to reduce inner tire wear. Installed caster bolt on passenger side only to stop pull. Then had alignment and all is perfect.

My whole goal for buying the camber kit is to 1. save my current tires, 2. eliminate the excessive inner tire wear, and 3. eliminate the pull to the right. I'd love to go the adjustment bolt route, but I'd still be running approx. -2.4 camber on the front driver side and that is not enough camber to make me comfortable enough to drive it. This is my daily and I'd prefer not to chew through MPSS's every few months.

95viper 09-16-2018 08:36 PM

I understand. The bolts help but do not fix. You will need adjustable arms or kmac but one is expensive and the other not without reported drama.

sventastic82 09-17-2018 07:57 AM

[QUOTE=curt.r;7555580]Oh. IIRC, the MPSS have a dedicated outside tirewall, although I'm not 100% sure so don't quote me on it. I'll mention it to the indy shop I'm going to use before I buy the bushing kit.

Yes they have a dedicated outside wall (asymmetrical tires) and if we move the left wheel to the right and the right wheel to the left. The outside wall stays on the outside.

If you have directional tires you wouldnít be able to rotate them.
MPSS are asymmetrical and can be moved.

curt.r 09-17-2018 11:14 AM


Originally Posted by sventastic82 (Post 7555805)

Originally Posted by curt.r (Post 7555580)
Oh. IIRC, the MPSS have a dedicated outside tirewall, although I'm not 100% sure so don't quote me on it. I'll mention it to the indy shop I'm going to use before I buy the bushing kit.

Yes they have a dedicated outside wall (asymmetrical tires) and if we move the left wheel to the right and the right wheel to the left. The outside wall stays on the outside.

If you have directional tires you wouldnít be able to rotate them.
MPSS are asymmetrical and can be moved.

Oh, that makes more sense. I misunderstood you and thought you were telling me to have the tire shop flip the tires and put the outside sidewall on the inside. I guess itís worth a shot, if I have time today Iíll go ahead and try it, and report back. Both tires have inner tire wear the passenger one just has less.

curt.r 09-18-2018 02:55 AM


Originally Posted by curt.r (Post 7555904)

Oh, that makes more sense. I misunderstood you and thought you were telling me to have the tire shop flip the tires and put the outside sidewall on the inside. I guess itís worth a shot, if I have time today Iíll go ahead and try it, and report back. Both tires have inner tire wear the passenger one just has less.

As promised, gave it a shot, and interchanged the front wheels. Car still pulled to the right. Placing the order for the bushing kit tomorrow.

95viper 09-18-2018 05:44 AM

Which bushing kit are you getting?

curt.r 09-18-2018 01:57 PM


Originally Posted by 95viper (Post 7556646)
Which bushing kit are you getting?

Going to be getting the K-MAC Front Camber/Caster Bushing Kit. https://k-mac.com/product/mercedes-w...shing-502616k/
Part Number: 502616K

I'll definitely keep everyone updated once I get the bushings installed on the car.

95viper 09-18-2018 05:23 PM

Cool. Total adjustment there. After camber is set put a tad more positive caster on drIver side. Then check camber again and set toe again.

curt.r 10-02-2018 10:39 PM

Time for an update. Got around to having the shop install the KMAC front camber/castor bushing kit. If anyone needs anything for your Mercedes or AMG, give Kahlers in Dublin, CA a call. Raul and his guys there are awesomeThey knocked it out of the park for a great price as well. IIRC, I might have said negative things about them in the past but they have went above and beyond, and have redeemed themselves. While it was at the shop I had the change the trans & diff fluid, so I'm set. Anyways, back on topic.

My $.02 if you're thinking about installing H&R lowering springs on your W204... don't. The lowered look is aggressive, but have aggressively eaten into my wallet :mercy: . After installing the springs, the car developed a strong pull to the right, which was not able to be corrected by an alignment. It was to be expected, so I bought the adjustment bolts to correct the issue, but by then it was too late. The incorrect alignment ate through my MPSS's and I realized that I would need the KMAC bushing kit to correct the issue, not help it with the alignment bolts. The installation of the H&R springs (granted you could install this yourself, I preferred to have a shop do it) was $300. The KMAC bushings set me back $510 shipped. To install the bushing was $768 after tax (including the price of the alignment, which took multiple hours to get right). All in all, to lower the car 0.75" I have about $1,600 into it. It looks great, and the handling was improved but if I had the chance to do it all over again, I'd probably pass.

On a side note, Kevin and the guys over at KMAC are awesome! Also, Kevin if you're reading this, sorry for my spotty responses haha... the phone call quality was very poor and I was trying my best to make out what you were saying because the phone kept breaking up. Nonetheless, when I called Kevin, he spoke to Raul on the phone and personally made sure that the shop correctly used the adjusters on the bushings and everything went OK with the install. :thankyou: . The bushings are awesome and the steering pull is almost non-existent now. It's just the excessive wear on my tires causing the ever-so-slight pull to the right. Once I get new tires the pull will disappear, no doubt about it. Highly recommend KMAC bushings if you're in need of a camber correction on the W204.

roadtalontsi 10-02-2018 11:06 PM

I totally agree with you Curt.r . There are way too many people just going the cheap route and end up very disappointed with the car. Sure it looks good but it changes so many thing on the car. The shock is no longer in its center point so that makes it ride stiffer, the sway bar is now loaded at all times (unless you get adjustable sway bar links - which no one ever talks about) which makes the spring rate even higher. Now the camber is even more aggressive than previously which is alot for a street car to begin with. Sadly some 200$ set of springs made your car drive like cheap honda that nukes a $1000 set of tires. Is the change in suspension geometry worth it to lose an inch off the center of gravity? is the handling actually improved? Lots of unanswered questions remain. I truly recommend only using quality coilovers, if you're going lower than stock - get adjustment to fix the camber and sway bar endlinks.

I cant begin to tell you how many peoples car's have been lowered and I talk them into raising them up (typically coilover sleeves setups that are slammed). They are blown away at the ride quality improvement and better handling. Running -3 degrees of camber handles awesome on a tire made for it. No street tire is made for that and it will make it handle worse.

curt.r 10-02-2018 11:21 PM


Originally Posted by roadtalontsi (Post 7568411)
I totally agree with you Curt.r . There are way too many people just going the cheap route and end up very disappointed with the car. Sure it looks good but it changes so many thing on the car. The shock is no longer in its center point so that makes it ride stiffer, the sway bar is now loaded at all times (unless you get adjustable sway bar links - which no one ever talks about) which makes the spring rate even higher. Now the camber is even more aggressive than previously which is alot for a street car to begin with. Sadly some 200$ set of springs made your car drive like cheap honda that nukes a $1000 set of tires. Is the change in suspension geometry worth it to lose an inch off the center of gravity? is the handling actually improved? Lots of unanswered questions remain. I truly recommend only using quality coilovers, if you're going lower than stock - get adjustment to fix the camber and sway bar endlinks.

I cant begin to tell you how many peoples car's have been lowered and I talk them into raising them up (typically coilover sleeves setups that are slammed). They are blown away at the ride quality improvement and better handling. Running -3 degrees of camber handles awesome on a tire made for it. No street tire is made for that and it will make it handle worse.

I'm definitely guilty of that. I saw how jaw-dropping the car looks lowered that I was blinded by my own ignorance. One day I will eventually switch to a coilover setup, but for how much money I just spent to correct the springs, I'm going to "enjoy" them for a while. I definitely would say that it was not worth the money to ruin the car's suspension geometry and the car definitely decided to fight back at my stupidity :smash: . I had no clue that I needed adjustable sway bar end links... great another thing because of these springs LOL. Going to have to look into those now :wall: . Like I said, if I had the opportunity to do it again, I'd sprint in the opposite direction!

95viper 10-02-2018 11:44 PM

Why would sway bar be loaded? Both sides went down the same amount. Loaded would be if you did one side more than the other.

roadtalontsi 10-02-2018 11:51 PM


Originally Posted by 95viper (Post 7568434)
Why would sway bar be loaded? Both sides went down the same amount. Loaded would be if you did one side more than the other.

It's all about the geometry. Most of the sway bar bushings are bounded to the sway bars on mercedes. Even if they weren't the distance/angle changes with ride height. If you dont believe me unbolt both sides of your endlinks with the vehicle loaded - in its neutral state (if you're stock its a piece of cake). Now raise it on a lift or stick a couple hundred pounds of weight on it to lower it and you'll see you aren't going to get them in again with out a large prybar and some determination.

I suppose I also forgot to mention the mounting position of the tie rod ends ideally should change too with ride height - i've seen some spacer kits or balljoint extenders that lower them on the spindles to correct that geometry as well.

95viper 10-03-2018 12:16 AM

Gotcha, I was figuring that the sway bar is traveling during normal driving so why is that a big deal if it starts 1/2Ē lower due to spring change. I get your point though.

agp423 10-03-2018 08:25 AM

Mine pulls to the left

JeffACM 10-17-2018 09:15 AM

I put H&R on with 17mm rear pads, let everything settle, and now have been struggling with my alignment.
After 4 alignments here is where i'm at. I just want to minimize tire wear as much as I can as this is my daily.

Front
Camber L -2.1 degress R -2.2 degrees
Toe L 0.21 R 0.16 (Total 0.37)

Rear
Camber L -2.3 degrees R -2.7 degrees
Toe L 0.12 R 0.12 (total 0.24)

The left side keeps walking on me as soon as i come off the rack.
The car also pulls slightly left.


I put two of those fancy bolts in the front.

Any help would be super appreciative as i wanna get this finished tonight after work!

I did PM The guy Talon and haven't heard back which is no issue, i hope someone can chime in and give me a hand! Thanks!!!

sventastic82 10-17-2018 02:59 PM


Originally Posted by JeffACM (Post 7579206)
I put H&R on with 17mm rear pads, let everything settle, and now have been struggling with my alignment.
After 4 alignments here is where i'm at. I just want to minimize tire wear as much as I can as this is my daily.

Front
Camber L -2.1 degress R -2.2 degrees
Toe L 0.21 R 0.16 (Total 0.37)

Rear
Camber L -2.3 degrees R -2.7 degrees
Toe L 0.12 R 0.12 (total 0.24)

The left side keeps walking on me as soon as i come off the rack.
The car also pulls slightly left.


I put two of those fancy bolts in the front.

Any help would be super appreciative as i wanna get this finished tonight after work!

I did PM The guy Talon and haven't heard back which is no issue, i hope someone can chime in and give me a hand! Thanks!!!

Did you do another alignment after the bolt install? the Correction bolts will also change your Toe.


JeffACM 10-17-2018 03:12 PM


Originally Posted by sventastic82 (Post 7579486)
Did you do another alignment after the bolt install? the Correction bolts will also change your Toe.

Yes, this is the alignment AFTER the bolts were installed.

Mort 10-17-2018 07:42 PM

What are your caster values for the front? Caster has the greatest influence on how the car tracks and whether it will pull or not.

JeffACM 10-18-2018 09:53 AM


Originally Posted by Mort (Post 7579758)
What are your caster values for the front? Caster has the greatest influence on how the car tracks and whether it will pull or not.

Caster values Front
L 10.8 R 10.5

Thanks for any help Mort! your cars a flipping inspiration!

Mort 10-18-2018 03:03 PM


Originally Posted by JeffACM (Post 7580071)
Caster values Front
L 10.8 R 10.5

Thanks for any help Mort! your cars a flipping inspiration!

I am not sure why your car is pulling left. It looks like it should be pulling slightly right as the left caster is more positive than the right. The settings you generally want to reduce a pull to the right, for crowned roads, are 1/4 degree more negative right front camber and 1/4 degree more positive right caster. These settings may cause a car to pull slightly to the left on a flat road or one slopped slightly to the left. I find that these cars, when lowered, tend to be very sensitive to the slope of the road and you can feel it more because the caster becomes more positive which in turn makes the steering stiffer (steering effort increases). The positive caster levels on the C63 are relatively high to increase straight line tracking, high speed stability and front end cornering at the expense of steering effort being balanced by the power steering. When you increase positive caster even more the steering effort becomes noticeably higher than the power steering can negate.

Do you know what positions the adjustment bolts were installed? If they are installed to reduce the camber as low as they can then you may want to install two more to reduce the positive caster on the left and increase it on the right. That will go the farthest to increase tire life without installing KMac bushings.

The other thing to do to increase tire life is to reduce toe-in front and rear as toe-in scrubs the tires a tiny bit. Maybe try to set the total toe on the front to .10in (manufacturer minimum) to .15in and in the rear to .07in (manufacturer minimum) to .10in. Reduced toe-in will reduce high speed stability a little and increase initial turn-in when cornering.

The specs for my car, done with a camber gauge and a string box on my shimmed garage floor are ( I have KMac bushings and top plates in the front and camber bushings in the rear):

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c94374dab6.jpg


I drove 4200km from New Brunswick to Saskatoon this summer when I moved to Saskatoon and the car handled very well. When I registered my car in Saskatchewan I had to get a vehicle inspection which included an alignment. This is the report I received from the dealer.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...922d502f49.jpg
Best of luck getting your alignment to your satisfaction.

JeffACM 10-18-2018 03:42 PM

Mort, Thank you VERY much for the extensive post. I'm going to give this another shot after work on Saturday. My main concern is NOT blowing through tires. I'll do what I can to even out the caster as well as bring toe in to the lower specs!
Thank you again!

curt.r 01-21-2019 10:52 PM

I was cleaning the house and found the alignment bolts I purchased a while back. Put em up on the marketplace if anyone is interested: https://mbworld.org/forums/market/733614

silversleeper48 01-22-2019 09:27 AM

Hello Everyone, can you guys please clarify installing the H&R Springs and aliment issues. Will every C63 W204 suffer from the alignment issue or is it a hit and miss. If it's all the remedies will require the additional alignment bolts like curt.r is selling or the other option KMAC front camber/castor bushing kit. How about the Agency Power Front Adjustable Sway Bar Links Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG 08-14 https://www.agency-power.com/shop/fr...v=7516fd43adaa

To recap: If I buy the H&R Lower Springs I will also need a combination of the following items to ensure my car will not pull to either side

OEM Mercedes Benz Alignment bolts like curt.r is selling or get the KMAC front camber/castor busing kit
and Agency Power Front Adjustable Sawybar Links.

If I add all that up it will probably run about $1,000 + or - are there any complete lower kits at this price point available if so which kits are there.

Thanks,

Tim

curt.r 01-22-2019 10:51 AM


Originally Posted by silversleeper48 (Post 7660697)
Hello Everyone, can you guys please clarify installing the H&R Springs and aliment issues. Will every C63 W204 suffer from the alignment issue or is it a hit and miss. If it's all the remedies will require the additional alignment bolts like curt.r is selling or the other option KMAC front camber/castor bushing kit. How about the Agency Power Front Adjustable Sway Bar Links Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG 08-14 https://www.agency-power.com/shop/fr...v=7516fd43adaa

To recap: If I buy the H&R Lower Springs I will also need a combination of the following items to ensure my car will not pull to either side

OEM Mercedes Benz Alignment bolts like curt.r is selling or get the KMAC front camber/castor busing kit
and Agency Power Front Adjustable Sawybar Links.

If I add all that up it will probably run about $1,000 + or - are there any complete lower kits at this price point available if so which kits are there.

Thanks,

Tim

Unfortunately, it really is a hit or miss with these cars. A handful of people don't experience a pull, while everyone else does. I'd say the chances of your car having an alignment issue after installing the springs is much higher. With the adjustment bolts, people have been able to fix the steering wheel pull BUT cannot 100% correct the amount of camber in the tires. Hell, I'm barely within spec with the K-MAC bushings. The K-MAC bushing kit is a great way to correct the steering wheel pull, but it is not a cost-effective option, hence why people choose to do the alignment bolts. While the adjustable end links is a great idea, it is not needed to correct the steering wheel pull. I opted not to do the adjustment bolts because I cannot afford to continuously eat through MPSS's. People have positive experience with the alignment bolts in regards to eliminating the pull although I'm not too sure about tire wear though and I didn't want to chance it.

So to shorten this up a bit: Buying the alignment bolts will most likely correct the steering wheel pull (it depends on the alignment specs after your car is lowered, each car varies). The better way to do it is the K-MAC bushing way, with the AP adj. front end links. Here's the problem with that, the alignment bolts are $45 to correct the steering wheel pull. The K-MAC way will set you back $1500+ (not including the price of the AP adj. front swaybar endlinks, so add $225 to that).

If I missed any points, let me know and I'll try to answer them as best as I can. Hope this helps.

silversleeper48 01-22-2019 10:59 AM

Thank-you very much
 
Hello Curt.r.

Thank-you very much for taking the time to give me your perspective. I'll let you know which way I go.


Originally Posted by curt.r (Post 7660765)
Unfortunately, it really is a hit or miss with these cars. A handful of people don't experience a pull, while everyone else does. I'd say the chances of your car having an alignment issue after installing the springs is much higher. With the adjustment bolts, people have been able to fix the steering wheel pull BUT cannot 100% correct the amount of camber in the tires. Hell, I'm barely within spec with the K-MAC bushings. The K-MAC bushing kit is a great way to correct the steering wheel pull, but it is not a cost-effective option, hence why people choose to do the alignment bolts. While the adjustable end links is a great idea, it is not needed to correct the steering wheel pull. I opted not to do the adjustment bolts because I cannot afford to continuously eat through MPSS's. People have positive experience with the alignment bolts in regards to eliminating the pull although I'm not too sure about tire wear though and I didn't want to chance it.

So to shorten this up a bit: Buying the alignment bolts will most likely correct the steering wheel pull (it depends on the alignment specs after your car is lowered, each car varies). The better way to do it is the K-MAC bushing way, with the AP adj. front end links. Here's the problem with that, the alignment bolts are $45 to correct the steering wheel pull. The K-MAC way will set you back $1500+ (not including the price of the AP adj. front swaybar endlinks, so add $225 to that).

If I missed any points, let me know and I'll try to answer them as best as I can. Hope this helps.



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