Driven Racing DT-40 oil on the C63?
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Driven Racing DT-40 oil on the C63?
Hey guys,
Ex-911 owner here... most 911 guys run this very high zinc "Driven Racing DT-40" engine oil since those flat 6's sheer right through and consume Mobil 1 0-40. Skeptical at first, I converted, and now a believer - I have never had an oil make that much of a positive difference to smoothness and drivability, till DT-40.
I contacted Driven Racing and they confirmed that the lubrizol additives used in the DT-40 meet MB's 229.5 spec, so they said it's compatible. I have 15-20 quarts of this oil left over (and it's high $$). Anyway, I am curious if anyone here has used the DT-40 in their C63. Thoughts?
Ex-911 owner here... most 911 guys run this very high zinc "Driven Racing DT-40" engine oil since those flat 6's sheer right through and consume Mobil 1 0-40. Skeptical at first, I converted, and now a believer - I have never had an oil make that much of a positive difference to smoothness and drivability, till DT-40.
I contacted Driven Racing and they confirmed that the lubrizol additives used in the DT-40 meet MB's 229.5 spec, so they said it's compatible. I have 15-20 quarts of this oil left over (and it's high $$). Anyway, I am curious if anyone here has used the DT-40 in their C63. Thoughts?
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Not MB 229.5 approved
Zinc actual will increase wear in a modern engine
It may help in older engines with tappets and push rods
In racing engines that have to last a few 1000 miles between rebuilds vs a street car that must go 200,000 not an issue
High zinc will spall some steel/iron, not good
Zinc actual will increase wear in a modern engine
It may help in older engines with tappets and push rods
In racing engines that have to last a few 1000 miles between rebuilds vs a street car that must go 200,000 not an issue
High zinc will spall some steel/iron, not good
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This is useful also
A chart of spec and wt by engine type
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf
Last edited by Ingenieur; Dec 15, 2014 at 05:26 PM.
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In reality any API synthetic of the same wt and service rating would most likely be fine
But honestly with so many good oils on the list it makes sense to use one
The duty service is so low as is the change interval, coupled with the system volume and design (cooling, filtration, etc) lubrication is more than sufficient imho
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B
I'm an engineer
They keep me out of the board room unless they have a problem
I hovel in a small cave with closed door under which they slide work
I'm predisposed to state facts and sometimes those did not align with my bosses 'position'
When I became president and a significant shareholder it did not matter what the bean counters and lawyers thought lol
Candor works well with people who do not quarter BS
Mixing oils except for small % top offs is not good practice
In my professional (highly sought after and expensive lol) opinion which I proffer for free.....KABOOM!!!!
ps you are a ~qt low
Takes 9 and you only used 8
They keep me out of the board room unless they have a problem
I hovel in a small cave with closed door under which they slide work
I'm predisposed to state facts and sometimes those did not align with my bosses 'position'
When I became president and a significant shareholder it did not matter what the bean counters and lawyers thought lol
Candor works well with people who do not quarter BS
Mixing oils except for small % top offs is not good practice
In my professional (highly sought after and expensive lol) opinion which I proffer for free.....KABOOM!!!!
ps you are a ~qt low
Takes 9 and you only used 8
Last edited by Ingenieur; Dec 15, 2014 at 07:56 PM.
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Used a mittyvac and only emptied the pan (7.9L total capacity, 4L + 4qt = 7.785L) so yeah, maybe a tad bit low on the stick (again don't rat)...
Last edited by Jasonoff; Dec 15, 2014 at 09:03 PM.
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No filter change?
Wait for it
Wait for it
Wait for it
...................KABLAMMY!!!!!
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Hot, waited until the sensor read 78°C (although it is mighty, the mityvac says 80°C max for fluid temp 
)
Yes, changed the filter with an OEM unit.
)Yes, changed the filter with an OEM unit.
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Thanks for all your thoughts guys. DT-40 is a 5-40 oil. I exchanged more notes with the manufacturer (Driven Racing) and they clarified that the "librizol" additive package they use in their blend meets the 229.5 spec, however, they never submitted the oil via MB's mPAO certification process for it to get on the approved list.
I have faith and respect for manufacturer recommendations. I also know however, that in some cases, aftermarket alternatives are far superior to manufacturer recommendations (e.g., Porsche recommending Mobil 1 0-40 when clearly, there are far superior oils available for the flat 6. Mobil 1 0-40 would just sheer so easily in that car it was comical to drive around a $120k car that would consumer oil between changes).
Here's what I have decided: I am going to use my remaining stock of DT-40 and see how the car likes it (if at all a difference is noticeable). The way I am looking at it, based on best available information, if it's good enough for a $200k 911 Turbo S, it's got to be good enough for a $70k C63. If car doesn't like or I notice nothing different, I may swtich back to Mobil 1 0-40. I can get the Mobil 1 0-40 for $6-7 per quart at Walmart, while the DT-40 is more like $15 a quart, so I wouldn't mind switching back if it came to it afterall.
I'll keep you guys posted.
I have faith and respect for manufacturer recommendations. I also know however, that in some cases, aftermarket alternatives are far superior to manufacturer recommendations (e.g., Porsche recommending Mobil 1 0-40 when clearly, there are far superior oils available for the flat 6. Mobil 1 0-40 would just sheer so easily in that car it was comical to drive around a $120k car that would consumer oil between changes).
Here's what I have decided: I am going to use my remaining stock of DT-40 and see how the car likes it (if at all a difference is noticeable). The way I am looking at it, based on best available information, if it's good enough for a $200k 911 Turbo S, it's got to be good enough for a $70k C63. If car doesn't like or I notice nothing different, I may swtich back to Mobil 1 0-40. I can get the Mobil 1 0-40 for $6-7 per quart at Walmart, while the DT-40 is more like $15 a quart, so I wouldn't mind switching back if it came to it afterall.
I'll keep you guys posted.
Last edited by xxaarraa; Dec 16, 2014 at 09:49 AM.
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Oil is designed to 'shear' that is how it transfers energy
0w40 Mobil 1 is one of highest zinc (ZDDP) conc. of modern oils
That is why it is spec'ed by AMG and Porsche
They could choose any oil they wanted
oil mfgs would line up and sell cheap to be their oem supplier for the aftermarket sales
They CHOSE Mobil 1
You can not do better, much less FAR SUPERIOR, but you can do worse
0w40 Mobil 1 is one of highest zinc (ZDDP) conc. of modern oils
That is why it is spec'ed by AMG and Porsche
They could choose any oil they wanted
oil mfgs would line up and sell cheap to be their oem supplier for the aftermarket sales
They CHOSE Mobil 1
You can not do better, much less FAR SUPERIOR, but you can do worse
Last edited by Ingenieur; Dec 16, 2014 at 02:55 PM.
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Oil is designed to 'shear' that is how it transfers energy
0w40 Mobil 1 is one of highest zinc (ZDDP) conc. of modern oils
That is why it is spec'ed by AMG and Porsche
They could choose any oil they wanted
oil mfgs would line up and sell cheap to be their oem supplier for the aftermarket sales
They CHOSE Mobil 1
You can not do better, much less FAR SUPERIOR, but you can do worse
0w40 Mobil 1 is one of highest zinc (ZDDP) conc. of modern oils
That is why it is spec'ed by AMG and Porsche
They could choose any oil they wanted
oil mfgs would line up and sell cheap to be their oem supplier for the aftermarket sales
They CHOSE Mobil 1
You can not do better, much less FAR SUPERIOR, but you can do worse
Thanks for your thoughts though, I do appreciate the dialog and feedback.
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Sorry, not going to argue this with you. You are wrong. Oil is not designed to transfer energy, it is designed to lubricate. Very different things. And unless you can tell me you have owned many Porsches, you have no credibility to counter what I am saying about Mobil 1 & Porsche.
Thanks for your thoughts though, I do appreciate the dialog and feedback.
Thanks for your thoughts though, I do appreciate the dialog and feedback.
With oil friction is reduced and the oil heats as it provides a film that shears and carries thermal energy away
To raise the temperature of oil requires energy
Some from friction some from combustion
Dissapated in the cooler ie the thermal energy is transferred to the air stream
The oil is absorbing and rejecting thermal energy
Repeat
I have owned 3 Porsches one of which was air cooled
I'm not a pilot but I know why airplanes fly
Just trying to prevent misinformation that may be used by members less knowledgable than us that's all
Last edited by Ingenieur; Dec 16, 2014 at 09:25 PM.
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If no oil heat due to friction will sieze the engine
With oil friction is reduced and the oil heats as it provides a film that shears and carries thermal energy away
To raise the temperature of oil requires energy
Some from friction some from combustion
Dissapated in the cooler ie the thermal energy is transferred to the air stream
The oil is absorbing and rejecting thermal energy
Repeat
I have owned 3 Porsches one of which was air cooled
I'm not a pilot but I know why airplanes fly
Just trying to prevent misinformation that may be used by members less knowledgable than us that's all
With oil friction is reduced and the oil heats as it provides a film that shears and carries thermal energy away
To raise the temperature of oil requires energy
Some from friction some from combustion
Dissapated in the cooler ie the thermal energy is transferred to the air stream
The oil is absorbing and rejecting thermal energy
Repeat
I have owned 3 Porsches one of which was air cooled
I'm not a pilot but I know why airplanes fly
Just trying to prevent misinformation that may be used by members less knowledgable than us that's all
I race Ducatis and Aprilias, owned 3 AMGs, Porsches, M3s. Yeah, I do have a bit of personal experience with high performance engines. And I can speak English and spell my words correctly too.
No oil is designed to shear. Definitely not well before the manufacturer recommended service interval. And manufacturers aren't all knowing Gods. Clearly, if they were, you wouldn't have the often repeated major design flaws such as vanos bolts, MB head bolts, Porsche IMS, etc.
Point is this. I asked for opinions. I got some. I made a decision. You still keep spewing your bull**** and I think you should spend your energy elsewhere. I'm good, thanks.
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Dude, now you are annoying me. "misinformation that may be caused by members less knowledgable" really? For someone who can't spell correctly (English is clearly not your native language it looks like), that's a pretty arrogant statement don't ya think?
I race Ducatis and Aprilias, owned 3 AMGs, Porsches, M3s. Yeah, I do have a bit of personal experience with high performance engines. And I can speak English and spell my words correctly too.
No oil is designed to shear. Definitely not well before the manufacturer recommended service interval. And manufacturers aren't all knowing Gods. Clearly, if they were, you wouldn't have the often repeated major design flaws such as vanos bolts, MB head bolts, Porsche IMS, etc.
Point is this. I asked for opinions. I got some. I made a decision. You still keep spewing your bull**** and I think you should spend your energy elsewhere. I'm good, thanks.
I race Ducatis and Aprilias, owned 3 AMGs, Porsches, M3s. Yeah, I do have a bit of personal experience with high performance engines. And I can speak English and spell my words correctly too.
No oil is designed to shear. Definitely not well before the manufacturer recommended service interval. And manufacturers aren't all knowing Gods. Clearly, if they were, you wouldn't have the often repeated major design flaws such as vanos bolts, MB head bolts, Porsche IMS, etc.
Point is this. I asked for opinions. I got some. I made a decision. You still keep spewing your bull**** and I think you should spend your energy elsewhere. I'm good, thanks.
all I am doing is illustrating how moot your position is
and to refute the advice to use non-approved oils
no need to insult with the 'native language' crap or "keep spewing your bull**** "
obviously engineering & physics is not yours
you sound like an angry little child
you are obviously not 'good'
oil IS designed to 'shear' at a controlled rate
so they design it with shear as a variable
do we agree now that it transfers energy in heat form?
which you said it did not do
so how can we believe your assertion that it does not shear?
as it shears it lowers viscosity, that is why a service interval is spec'ed
as far as how I spend my 'energy' (the very same the oil transfers
) that is up to me and I require no direction from youas the say in Salt Lake, pound salt
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obviously it did not work
many members actually ask questions they don't already know the answers to, I thought you may be one of them, my bad
you are an lubrication engineer please join us http://www.lelubricants.com/about-us.html
it is not approved
after being advised so, with documentation, you said the heck with it an will use it
why ask then?
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Please analyze each of those 900 posts to determine if the thread they are in is about oil. Then please search for threads without "oil" in the topic, cross examine the results and come up with an accurate thread count.
I'll give you 15min.
GO
