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AMG3.2's DIY Headbolt Adventure

 
Old 12-05-2015, 05:12 PM
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This is so awesome lol keep the info coming
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Old 12-05-2015, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Jasonoff View Post
And with 6.5" of un-engaged length the OE bolt would be approximately 203,077psi

I know there's quite a few unknowns in that calculation but that still seems way too tight no?
I would think the desired stress would be slightly over yield, or probably around 240,000 to 250,000 psi. I don't know what the head bolt material is, but I would think it's probably good for around 230,000 psi.

Does anyone have an old head bolt they can measure. Just go from the bottom of the head down to where you can see where the bolt was threaded in.
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Old 08-29-2016, 11:18 PM
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Well, I made the plunge.

I ordered the revised headbolts as well as revised M156 tappets. Gonna be gathering parts over the next month or so to tackle this project in the latter part of September.

The only thing I feel uncomfortable about after reading just about everything I can find on here is the cam timing when putting it all back together and re-installing the cam adjusters.

Everything else seems pretty straightforward, just laborous.

My plan is to document a lot of it. Not necessarily for others to DIY, but more so for others to see the process.

Question for anyone that reads this: Should I be applying some engine lubricant to the new tappets as shown below?





And if so, could someone recommend the right product?

Last edited by AMG3.2; 08-30-2016 at 01:41 AM.
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Old 08-30-2016, 07:44 AM
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Old 08-30-2016, 11:36 AM
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Thanks man
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Old 08-30-2016, 12:01 PM
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Old 08-30-2016, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by badu View Post
You bet! Totally a feeler though. If someone gives me that price, I'll let it go.

Higher than market value obviously, but with the work I've put into it, that's the only price I'd let it go for. Some will give me crap for it, but eh oh well.

I'm itching to get into a truck to do a bit of offroading and what not. If I sell the AMG at asking price, great, if not, I'll enjoy it.

As you can probably gather by this thread, I'm doubtful I'll sell it as I'm still doing headbolts and tappets to future proof the car.

Coilovers are on the mod list too.

Last edited by AMG3.2; 08-30-2016 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 08-30-2016, 01:44 PM
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did you purchase the AMG cam holder tool? I'm in the bay area also and would love to give a hand as I'd possibly need to do the same in the very near future.
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Old 08-30-2016, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by hachiroku View Post
did you purchase the AMG cam holder tool? I'm in the bay area also and would love to give a hand as I'd possibly need to do the same in the very near future.
I will definitely be purchasing it for the job. Thanks for the offer! PM me your contact info.
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Old 09-07-2016, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc63 View Post
Cam bolts get reused.

The bolts pass through the water jacket so for peace of mind, I put a small circle of high temp silicone on the washer/head of the bolt and clean the surface of the head off with brake clean on a rag with a screw driver. It looks like the bolts come with some white stuff/sealant on the washer/head, the factory doesn't add anything extra for silicone, I figure it can't hurt.

No don't use those holes. Use the mark on the engine and remove the one dust cap or pulley to see it better. You need to be right on the money.

Make sure u drain the coolant.
Another question - should I be draining coolant from the radiator or block as well?
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Old 09-10-2016, 06:28 PM
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Updated part list of everything I've ordered should anyone else want to take this on.

As Merc63 has mentioned in his DIY threads, this is not a DIY kinda thing. You have to a) be mechanically inclined, and b) have done tons of tons of reading on the subject.

Below is my updated parts list:

M156 Tappets, 156-050-02-25 $17.55 32 $561.60
M156 Updated Headbolt, 156-016-07-69 $8.31 20 $166.20
Actuator Bolts, 910105-012018 $8.42 4 $33.68
Timing Case Bolts, Eight Zeros in front 1150 $2.22 8 $17.76
27MM Short Socket for Crank $9.98 1 $9.98
Mercedes Cam Timing Tool M156 $90.00 1 $90.00
Engine Lubricant - Redline $16.40 1 $16.40
Engine Camera $20.00 1 $20.00
Torque Angle Guage $20.00 1 $20.00
High Temp Silicone $6.00 1 $6.00
Cylinder Head Gaskets 1560162221 $6.00 2 $12.00
Valve Cover Gasket Left, 156-016-25-21 $19.89 1 $19.89
Valve Cover Gasket Right, 156-016-24-21 $19.89 1 $19.89
Spark Plug Gaskets, 1560162121 $5.85 8 $46.80
Diamond Washers Cam Phaser, 1560510275 $6.32 4 $25.28
3/8 Torque Extension $10.00
m5-8 screw 4
Coolant
CDI Torque 2502MRMH
CDI 1002MFRMH
Mobil1 0W40 Oil + filter



Best prices on OE parts are found here.

http://stores.revolutionparts.com/mb...-v8-gas-engine

Last edited by AMG3.2; 07-20-2017 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 09-10-2016, 06:56 PM
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Are you losing coolant? Why are you pulling the heads?
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Old 09-10-2016, 07:03 PM
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No not at all, so negative.

Did you think I was since I have a part above mislabeled as "cylinder head gasket"?

If so, that's my bad. That's not the correct name for that part.
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Old 09-11-2016, 09:08 AM
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Ah, yeah that PN is the camshaft adjuster gasket.
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Old 09-11-2016, 12:46 PM
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You bet you drain the coolant. The bolts go through the water jacket. You need a pneumatic vacuum thingy to suck the fluid from every hole you remove a bolt from. Brake clean with a screw driver and rag to clean the bolt surface in the head.

You'll need a small screw like a m8 or m10 I think to hold the other cam. One has threads to screw into to hold the gear together. The other you use the little black tool over the gear to hold it.

The cam timing seems hard but it's impossible to screw up if the tools are on correctly and your engine is dead on 40 degrees.

The straight bar goes through the back slice in the both cams and rests flush on the head. The other tool goes over the front of both cams. Loosen the the bolt on the adjuster will allow it to go into the gears then use the tool on plate adjuster tool to set the adjuster to the right position and torque the bolt back down.

With those 3 tools on the cams they will be in the right spot, tighten everything back down slowly and evenly.

Get the MB wiz documents for headbolts and cams.
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Old 09-11-2016, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc63 View Post
You bet you drain the coolant. The bolts go through the water jacket. You need a pneumatic vacuum thingy to suck the fluid from every hole you remove a bolt from. Brake clean with a screw driver and rag to clean the bolt surface in the head.

You'll need a small screw like a m8 or m10 I think to hold the other cam. One has threads to screw into to hold the gear together. The other you use the little black tool over the gear to hold it.

The cam timing seems hard but it's impossible to screw up if the tools are on correctly and your engine is dead on 40 degrees.

The straight bar goes through the back slice in the both cams and rests flush on the head. The other tool goes over the front of both cams. Loosen the the bolt on the adjuster will allow it to go into the gears then use the tool on plate adjuster tool to set the adjuster to the right position and torque the bolt back down.

With those 3 tools on the cams they will be in the right spot, tighten everything back down slowly and evenly.

Get the MB wiz documents for headbolts and cams.
Awesome! Got all docs from my WIS so am good to go there. I guess the last thing I'm unsure of is whether I have to drain the coolant from the two plugs on the side of the block, or if I should just drain from the radiator.

I found the WIS docs for a drain and fill from the block and now know where the block drains plugs are.. The only problem is that they look to be a pain in the butt to reach. Unless I can get to them easier from the bottom...

EDIT: WIS docs attached as well.

Last edited by AMG3.2; 09-11-2016 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 09-11-2016, 02:11 PM
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Drain from the rad bottom will be lots then use the sucker down each hole.
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Old 09-11-2016, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc63 View Post
Drain from the rad bottom will be lots then use the sucker down each hole.
Thank god... I had a feeling getting to those drain plugs was going to be hell.

Thanks a lot for your help.
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Old 09-16-2016, 06:25 PM
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So AMG3.2 to be clear you went with the M156 tappets at $562 v. The m159 tappets at approx. $1000?
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Old 09-16-2016, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by KECLS63 View Post
So AMG3.2 to be clear you went with the M156 tappets at $562 v. The m159 tappets at approx. $1000?
Correct. The revised M156 tappets.
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Old 09-16-2016, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by AMG3.2 View Post
Correct. The revised M156 tappets.
Just curious, as you seem to be doing this more preventatively and for enjoyment. You obviously know what you're doing, and I'm following this thread with a great deal of interest. With all that said, why would you go through all the effort and dig into your engine to do this the 'right way', and not spend the extra $400 for M159 lifters, or even add a grand to that for the BS-spec ones? I mean, it does look like a fun and interesting project, but I think that I'd be disappointed, knowing that I could have built it significantly better for incremental extra cost. Just my $0.02, still appreciate the thread and respect what you're doing.
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Old 09-16-2016, 08:25 PM
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The M159 bucket isn't that much better. I believe it just has a slightly oil reservoir design to help hold oil pressure while the car is off and an anti friction material on the surface where the cam makes contact.

10 says the revised M156 bucket is pretty much the same part.

Edit: Someone chime in if this is dead wrong. But I think this is how our tappets are designed. Oil drains from the reservoir reducing the pressure in the high pressure chamber which in turn reduces the pressure between the valve stem and cam face. That's what causes the tapping sound on startup because there's a very tiny gap.




Last edited by Jasonoff; 09-16-2016 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 09-16-2016, 08:58 PM
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The M159 BS is different
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Old 09-16-2016, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by BLKROKT View Post
The M159 BS is different
And $2k No idea if the internal design is any different. They say they can handle higher RPM so maybe they're lighter as well?

I can't find the thread, I don't think it was on MBW. But someone inspected the non BS M159 buckets and there wasn't much of difference.
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Old 09-17-2016, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BLKROKT View Post
Just curious, as you seem to be doing this more preventatively and for enjoyment. You obviously know what you're doing, and I'm following this thread with a great deal of interest. With all that said, why would you go through all the effort and dig into your engine to do this the 'right way', and not spend the extra $400 for M159 lifters, or even add a grand to that for the BS-spec ones? I mean, it does look like a fun and interesting project, but I think that I'd be disappointed, knowing that I could have built it significantly better for incremental extra cost. Just my $0.02, still appreciate the thread and respect what you're doing.
Hey ROKT, thanks for the words. I chose the revised M156 buckets as opposed to the M159 buckets since I, like Jasonoff, had read somewhere the the designs were pretty similar if not the same (not sure if the latter is true, but someone posted it. I'm trying to find the thread).

That being said, I couldn't really find enough info about the M156 vs M159 buckets so couldn't exactly justify the additional $450 or so just for SLS parts.

Same rationale I chose when choosing the revised OE headbolts over the ARP studs. As long as their now revised by AMG and proven to be trouble free, I'm happy.

EDIT: Found this, but not sure how this compares to the revised M156 buckets.

"By now many have heard of the issue of accelerated wear in the valvetrain of the M156 engine. The materials design of the valvetrain components results in repeated contact of soft metals with hard metals. Eventually this can result in premature wear of the valvetrain, degrading engine performance or even causing engine failure.
Many M156 valve buckets are prone to "bleed down" resulting in excessive valve lash during cold start up, commonly heard as a loud tapping noise until the engine fully reaches operating temperature. Excessive valve lash is a major contributor to accelerated valvetrain wear. The M159 engine, used in the SLS and SLS roadster, features valve buckets that are of an improved design. The M159 valve buckets feature an anti friction coating to reduce wear on the camshaft lobes. They also have an improved hydraulic system that will not "bleed down" like the M156 valve buckets. Installation of M159 valve buckets will help prevent any premature wear to your engine's valvetrain and make for a quieter engine on cold starts."

Last edited by AMG3.2; 09-17-2016 at 12:38 PM.
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