Say 'NO' to EPA's threat to motorsports
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Houston - Clear Lake
C63 coupe, Z3M Roadster garage queen
Guys, just to be clear: The EPA cannot issue regulations. They are also not overreaching - they are developing proposals to reduce the environmental impact of all sorts of things - that is their job. That is why they exist and why we pay for having them.
If anybody disagrees with their proposal (as I do in this case), the right way to deal with it is to try to influence the government not to issue a law that uses the EPA proposal as a base. And that can be done through letters to our representatives as well as to congress, etc.
Sending anything to the EPA is a waste of time. That is not how it works.
If anybody disagrees with their proposal (as I do in this case), the right way to deal with it is to try to influence the government not to issue a law that uses the EPA proposal as a base. And that can be done through letters to our representatives as well as to congress, etc.
Sending anything to the EPA is a waste of time. That is not how it works.
For an overview of the process: http://www.epa.gov/laws-regulations/...latory-process
So write to EPA and tell them you think it's wrong. Write to your elected officials and tell them EPA is out of line on this and needs to be stopped.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Cincinnati Area
C63 507 with BS Body; 2008 SLK 55
zcct04 - you are right! Thanks for clarifying, this was a very helpful post.
Yes, the law the congress decides on in this case is the already approved Clean Air Act. Now the EPA is proposing a new standard on how to interpret that law.
EPA is proposing in 40 CFR 1037.601(a)(3) to clarify that the Clean Air Act does not allow any person to disable, remove, or render inoperative (i.e., tamper with) emission controls on a certified motor vehicle for purposes of competition.
Excerpt from the EPA website:
Once a law is official, here's how it is put into practice: Laws often do not include all the details needed to explain how an individual, business, state or local government, or others might follow the law. The United States Code would not tell you, for example, what the speed limit is in front of your house. In order to make the laws work on a day-to-day level, Congress authorizes certain government agencies - including EPA - to create regulations.
Regulations set specific requirements about what is legal and what isn't. For example, a regulation issued by EPA to implement the Clean Air Act might explain what levels of a pollutant - such as sulfur dioxide - adequately protect human health and the environment. It would tell industries how much sulfur dioxide they can legally emit into the air, and what the penalty will be if they emit too much. Once the regulation is in effect, EPA then works to help Americans comply with the law and to enforce it.
Yes, the EPA can do that. And the way to ty to influence it is by getting Congress to intervene/overrule, or fight it in court. SEMA is trying to coordinate those activities. They have started a White House Petition to intervene. As of this morning 141,000 people have signed it. Please also go and sign up, if you have not yet done so!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...les-racecars-0
Yes, the law the congress decides on in this case is the already approved Clean Air Act. Now the EPA is proposing a new standard on how to interpret that law.
EPA is proposing in 40 CFR 1037.601(a)(3) to clarify that the Clean Air Act does not allow any person to disable, remove, or render inoperative (i.e., tamper with) emission controls on a certified motor vehicle for purposes of competition.
Excerpt from the EPA website:
Once a law is official, here's how it is put into practice: Laws often do not include all the details needed to explain how an individual, business, state or local government, or others might follow the law. The United States Code would not tell you, for example, what the speed limit is in front of your house. In order to make the laws work on a day-to-day level, Congress authorizes certain government agencies - including EPA - to create regulations.
Regulations set specific requirements about what is legal and what isn't. For example, a regulation issued by EPA to implement the Clean Air Act might explain what levels of a pollutant - such as sulfur dioxide - adequately protect human health and the environment. It would tell industries how much sulfur dioxide they can legally emit into the air, and what the penalty will be if they emit too much. Once the regulation is in effect, EPA then works to help Americans comply with the law and to enforce it.
Yes, the EPA can do that. And the way to ty to influence it is by getting Congress to intervene/overrule, or fight it in court. SEMA is trying to coordinate those activities. They have started a White House Petition to intervene. As of this morning 141,000 people have signed it. Please also go and sign up, if you have not yet done so!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...les-racecars-0
Last edited by Wobble64; Feb 14, 2016 at 12:15 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2014
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From: Cincinnati Area
C63 507 with BS Body; 2008 SLK 55
I think we have to consider indirect consequences also. Already today it is hard to get certain tuning/modding accessories for our cars. What if there simply were no more LTHs and brake upgrades offered by vendors? Either because of liability or because of a even smaller customer market?
Not a fun prospect.
I suggest you all sign the petition, just in case.
Not a fun prospect.
I suggest you all sign the petition, just in case.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 366
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From: Charleston, SC
E55K, Black on Black. C63, Black on Black. SRT-10 NightRunner 363of400
I've signed it. Seeing as every campaign has set up shop here, if given the opportunity I will bring it up. You guys wouldn't believe the amount of mail, commercials, phone calls etc we have been getting. Im not talking crappy little fliers either.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 842
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From: Northern NJ
2015 E550 Coupe
I think we have to consider indirect consequences also. Already today it is hard to get certain tuning/modding accessories for our cars. What if there simply were no more LTHs and brake upgrades offered by vendors? Either because of liability or because of a even smaller customer market?
Not a fun prospect.
I suggest you all sign the petition, just in case.
Not a fun prospect.
I suggest you all sign the petition, just in case.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Houston - Clear Lake
C63 coupe, Z3M Roadster garage queen
Clif
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,001
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From: Cincinnati Area
C63 507 with BS Body; 2008 SLK 55
As of today, just under 163,000 people have signed the petition against the EPA ruling. It looks like we may not reach 200,000.
If you have not yet signed up, please do so here:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...les-racecars-0
If you have not yet signed up, please do so here:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...les-racecars-0
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,219
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2012 c63 AMG, 2011 GLK 350, 2019 GLS 450
As of today, just under 163,000 people have signed the petition against the EPA ruling. It looks like we may not reach 200,000.
If you have not yet signed up, please do so here:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...les-racecars-0
If you have not yet signed up, please do so here:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...les-racecars-0
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,159
Likes: 160
2006 E55
Haha, I wouldn't lose sleep over this. Some of you act like the aftermarket world isn't offering off-road products already - most of which enthusiasts buy and install on their cars anyway, e.g. ignoring any laws around NOT deleting cats with long tubes.
As long as the demand for products is there, you'll always be able to get the products. Maybe it'll be more of a 'black market', but if you have the money, you'll be able to find the products.
Having said all that, I don't think anything will come of this just overhype.
Just my .02
As long as the demand for products is there, you'll always be able to get the products. Maybe it'll be more of a 'black market', but if you have the money, you'll be able to find the products.
Having said all that, I don't think anything will come of this just overhype.
Just my .02
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,308
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From: Houston - Clear Lake
C63 coupe, Z3M Roadster garage queen
Haha, I wouldn't lose sleep over this. Some of you act like the aftermarket world isn't offering off-road products already - most of which enthusiasts buy and install on their cars anyway, e.g. ignoring any laws around NOT deleting cats with long tubes.
As long as the demand for products is there, you'll always be able to get the products. Maybe it'll be more of a 'black market', but if you have the money, you'll be able to find the products.
Having said all that, I don't think anything will come of this just overhype.
Just my .02
As long as the demand for products is there, you'll always be able to get the products. Maybe it'll be more of a 'black market', but if you have the money, you'll be able to find the products.
Having said all that, I don't think anything will come of this just overhype.
Just my .02
Super Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 528
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06 E55 / 13 C63
Haha? Wow. You've significantly missed the point here. EPA has stated that it will enforce against aftermarket companies that sell parts for use on the converted vehicles. That after-market 'off-road' parts pool that you enjoy today will dry up pretty quickly if EPA goes after the manufacturers.
Do you really think this is going to stop the aftermarket business? I mean do you genuinely believe that? Come on now.
This won't happen.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Houston - Clear Lake
C63 coupe, Z3M Roadster garage queen
I've been dealing with the EPA on and off for 30 years. If they pass a ruling that says manufacturers can be fined and go to jail for making parts to modify cars, the aftermarket WILL change. Many of the manufacturers will quit because the risks aren't worth it and they don't want the hassle. Those that stay will have to hire teams of lawyers in order to stay in business. Our aftermarket options will shrink and prices will go up. That's not an outcome that any of us really want to see.
If we're all complacent about it, the EPA will proceed. The number of names on the petition helps tell EPA whether the public supports or disagrees with their plan. It's really easy to do. It's even easier to sign the petition than it is to share your expert opinion here on MBWorld.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...les-racecars-0
If we're all complacent about it, the EPA will proceed. The number of names on the petition helps tell EPA whether the public supports or disagrees with their plan. It's really easy to do. It's even easier to sign the petition than it is to share your expert opinion here on MBWorld.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...les-racecars-0
Last edited by zcct04; Mar 7, 2016 at 02:47 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Cincinnati Area
C63 507 with BS Body; 2008 SLK 55
Couldn't agree more, very well said. The more signatures the better. The number of choices we have for things like headers, brakes, etc are already limited enough as they are today.
So, if you have not done so yet, please click on the link above and sign the petition.
So, if you have not done so yet, please click on the link above and sign the petition.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,308
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From: Houston - Clear Lake
C63 coupe, Z3M Roadster garage queen
Sorry, copy/paste failed me. Link above has been corrected.
And if you don't want to scroll back up, here it is again:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...les-racecars-0
And if you don't want to scroll back up, here it is again:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...les-racecars-0
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From: Kitchener, ON
2010 C63 AMG
Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 134
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From: Phoenix
2012 C63 AMG
Maybe somebody else can weigh in here but I fail to see how this will affect us other than making everything cost even more.
It is already illegal to swap out parts on your street car that affect emissions and then continue driving on the road, right? Hence why most aftermarket parts are not CARB cert'd and are marked for off-road use only.
Now the EPA is saying that they will go after any company that manufactures parts designed to alter the emissions of a car going from street to race car. Correct?
So, why would the EPA go after companies that make headers? Cold air intakes? Forged pistons? Cams? Etc? It could be argued that such parts, provided there is still a cat, don't affect emissions. And as for cats, it isn't the hardest thing to do to transition to hi-flow metal matrix cats and use those instead of straight piping.
If anything, it seems that the real affect would be that parts would start to cost more because aftermarket companies would have to file the appropriate paperwork to get the certs for the parts, costing a bit more money.
Thoughts?
It is already illegal to swap out parts on your street car that affect emissions and then continue driving on the road, right? Hence why most aftermarket parts are not CARB cert'd and are marked for off-road use only.
Now the EPA is saying that they will go after any company that manufactures parts designed to alter the emissions of a car going from street to race car. Correct?
So, why would the EPA go after companies that make headers? Cold air intakes? Forged pistons? Cams? Etc? It could be argued that such parts, provided there is still a cat, don't affect emissions. And as for cats, it isn't the hardest thing to do to transition to hi-flow metal matrix cats and use those instead of straight piping.
If anything, it seems that the real affect would be that parts would start to cost more because aftermarket companies would have to file the appropriate paperwork to get the certs for the parts, costing a bit more money.
Thoughts?
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From: Cincinnati Area
C63 507 with BS Body; 2008 SLK 55
In case you have not seen: There is now a new proposed regulation that intends to clarify that it is not illegal to modify a car intended for street use to make it a race car (it would neutralize the proposed EPA ruling). It is called 'Recognizing the Protection of Motorsports Act of 2016'. SEMA is doing a great job promoting approval of that new regulation. There is a link on the SEMA website allowing everybody to enter your name/address etc. and then their system auto-generates faxes that will be sent to your state representatives. Alternatively you can print out the letters and send them yourself. It is very well done and painless.
Please go there and get those faxes sent to your representative to maximize the chance of the regulation passing. Here is the link:
http://semasan.com/issue_alert.asp?g...495.1455463283
Please go there and get those faxes sent to your representative to maximize the chance of the regulation passing. Here is the link:
http://semasan.com/issue_alert.asp?g...495.1455463283
