Jasonoff

Are you saying that doesn't change the advance/retard angle limits in relation to how timing affects TDC? If so, can you please explain it to me? I'm trying to learn here.

I thought nitrous was mainly a physical element. Since it's oxygen rich, it leans out the AFR causing the ECU to add more fuel for correction (this is done automatically). It also helps cool the combustion chamber. More fuel and cooler temperatures creates more energy resulting in more power. Absolutely zero tuning required. You can't compare increased octane levels to nitrous. Same goes for methanol, both of which generally require modifications to both the timing and fuel map to take advantage of. Maybe I don't understand how any of this works either so could you maybe help explain this to me as well? I enjoy asking potentially dumb questions since it may help others afraid to ask.

You have typed a lot of words and still haven't explained to me why dumping in a bottle of magic sauce with no specific tune for it nets more gains than race fuel with a specific tune for it.

That's just not adding up for me. But, if you could explain it without being all emo, maybe I'd understand.

gaspam

oh so the M156 engine changes its crank / rod geometry on the fly, wow cool, i heard of variable geometry turbos, but didnt know the M156 has variable geometry crank and rods lol


oxygen rich you say... hmmm... like (CH3C5H4)Mn(CO)3... <---psst, that stuff is in fuel concentrates....interesting, do go on chemistry professor (btw i am a chemical engineer)... please educate me on nitrous being a physical element


i have, you just dont get it...also there was a dyno that showed it, but you chose to not believe your eyes, so what you cant understand or believe must be untrue right? . go pour water in your gas tank and take a drive, its only water, chemically neutral so it should have no effect right? .... now if it does something (even something really bad) it must be "magic sauce" right?

I will leave you for now to contemplate your next move on how to disprove the independent dyno in this thread since the changing fuel from 89 to 91 theory didnt pan out for you...

btw you are basically calling "c sexy 3" a liar by implying he didnt put the 91 oct in his tank that he said he did.... so you gonna stick with that theory that c sexy 3 put 89 oct in his tank to make his before dyno look bad and then drained his tank of the 89 and put higher octane gas in for the after dyno to make it look good? he went out of his way to do the dyno for the forum and then you calling him a liar? cool move bro, im out

C SEXY 3

This is why I stopped posting this was going no where fast even with proof. I guess that saying is true...

skratch77

all I know is when I get my car out of winter storage you can bet anything I'm buying a can of this **** and taking it to the track.

Mazspeed

Ok, after having gone through this thread a bit. I have come to the conclusion that Gaspam has no clue what he is talking about and is really bad at math.


Having said that, people have said that the C63 is better at higher Oct, like 98 or whatever is peak efficiently. This is true. The higher the Octane the better the engine will run and pull less timing out. It works in most cars other than NA rotaries.

I don't doubt a high octane liquid will provide higher HP benefits for the car. I might even believe the gains seen on the dyno test today. Hence why they sell race gas.
What I don't believe is that 1 16 oz bottle can raise the oct number high enough on a full tank from 91 to 97-98 enough to gain meaningful HP numbers.

It's impossible that a 16oz can could raise the number enough to do this. That is our argument. Now if you had 1 gallon of 91 fuel in the car and then put in 16oz of this stuff in there, it "could" render the results seen.


Maybe. But not with 15 gal. There is simply not enough magic in the can to do a full 15 gal tank.
I don't doubt oct boosters ability to raise the oct levels, but only to a certain amount.


Even 108 oct booster raises a 15 gal tank by only .2 or .03 to 91.2 or 91.3. Not enough to make any difference at all.

Doing a dyno test by a company who sells it is pointless. Many factors can be done to show or manipulate gains. It's very easy that someone can take my car in front of me, put me to the side, change a few perimeters in each run without me knowing and do a dyno run to see the changes.


Showing me a dyno graph does absolutely nothing as far as proving gains by a company that sells the product.

I would like to know why the same formula used in every other product is somehow much more concentrated in this product?

Savage-wp

MMT is a knock suppressant. By suppressing knock you effectively raise the octane. It is used in the fuel industry around the world.
Good quality Octane boosters use it. It does not require large quantities to treat gas.
See attached pdf.

gaspam

oh that's witchcraft 1 drop mmt per L increases oct 2 pts... damm magic sauce dont give these guys facts, they dont believe in them lol, anything they cant comprehend must be untrue

gaspam

show me where my math was off... I'll wait


wow thanks captain obvious, no one that's been around cars doesnt know that, but that's kinda contrary to all the "higher oct aint gonna do nuthin without a tune bro" crowd on this thread... watch out you're talking sacrilege now

ok good, at least you believe a c63 can pick up 23 whp on a dyno from race gas with no change in tune


it can, you just dont understand chemistry. you probably dont think a tiny little atom couldnt cause a reaction that destroys a city either right? .... how could something so small cause such a big change? hmmm, must of been a hoax in hiroshima


oh so you know the formula used in boostane? please post it because i havent found its msds anywhere, but according to you i'm clueless so clue me in on the formula please and post the msds...I'll wait ...until then facts are, forum member put his car on dyno added bottle to 8 gal of gas and made more power than he did on 91 fuel alone...something you (and few others) said wouldnt happened.... you lost hillary, quit making excuses

BLKROKT

Saved for posterity before you edit it again. No knowledge, no content, no answers. Just flailing around like you always do, ruining every thread you touch.

gaspam

no knowledge and no content from me? lol go search my diy threads i started (supercharger bearing replacement, airmatic replacement, etc etc.. and meth install on audi forum) and let compare them to your diy threads.... what have you offered , other than a loud mouth insult factory

kickinrocks

Damn guys. I came on to this thread looking for some quality information about potential performance boosters as demonstrated by video and intelligent discourse of knowledgeable people as one may expect representative of a Mercedes Benz forum. Instead, I got 3 pages of pointless insults that wouldn't even be seen or tolerated in my older Civic forum. Comeon guys, you talk about cleaning up the forum to make it better and then engage in pointless rhetoric like this...the higher level Benz car forums have to be

Adi-Benz

How about you guys take a break from taking shots at each other before you earn yourselves a ban. No need to get this heated on this topic. Believe what you want. BUT if you're going to try and disprove it, DO IT CORRECTLY IN THE RIGHT MANNER. I have no interest in getting mixed up in this so please just be respectful.

gaspam

stalking? bro you put that picture on a public forum on the internet lmao! its public domain... take it down if you dont like people seeing it on the interwebs lol thanks for the kisses, Beijos para voce para o meu amor

BLKROKT

Yes stalking. You must have spent quite some time to find my username and that pic on 6SpeedOnline. Probably know my name too now. Congrats. Really though, you could just send me a nice note or flowers or something. I'm old-fashioned like that.

gaspam

to you , and the rest that dont resort to calling the member that did the dyno basically a liar and calling me "gay", i apologize .... but to the insult factory guy blkrokt, nope

Jasonoff

Sometimes you have to cut your losses and stop tossing money at a bad investment.

Mazspeed

I have seen that before. It's a complete lie. One drop of mmt is not going to raise the octane level 2 numbers. That's just more BS. It's never been proven anywhere in independent testing. So if you put one drop of mmt, it's going to raise 91 to 91.1? Won't happen. If there was an independent lab that could verify this, I would be interested to look at those results.
the big problem with mmt is YES, MMT does leave deposits in both combustion chamber and your Cat converter and egr valves. This is one reason why it was banned as an additive for fuels in California and many other states due to it's corrosive properties not only in the engine, but in the atmosphere and ground wells as well.


It clogs everything. Arco used it as an oct lifter in the 70's and now lead the way in removing it from all gasoline. If this product uses mmt in any way in high amounts, you won't have your engine long. You cannot use too much of it. In fact none of our race teams ever used it because of the damage it can cause.

Mazspeed

I would not even bother talking to him anymore. He has shown himself to be a complete moron. It would be nice if the mods would get rid of him though.

Rock

Thread cleaned. If the insults continue we may have a few less members.

Savage-wp

Really. I did not know that. Thanks for the info.
I was under the impression that MMT was one of the additives that caused the least amount of wear compared to some of the other additives used.

Mazspeed

Yeah it's nasty stuff. It's magnesium based and is very corrosive. Newer systems like what we have in our cars cannot take MMT. Their are some areas around the world where they still use it as a fuel additive like China and Canada, but they keep knocking down the amount used.


Many auto makers are against the use of it because what it does to their systems.


If this product has it in there, I would avoid it like the plague.

glennhl

I've been following this thread and I find it very interesting. I was one of the naysayers that said this would never work, but it appears to me that it does. Why? Like most people on here say, because the engine is pulling less timing.

First off, people have written that the car is designed for 98 RON. Remember, Research Octane Number is higher than the US standard which is (research + motor)/2. If I remember correctly, 98 RON is around 94 octane at an US Pump.

Second, at least with my 2006 Vette, once the computer pulls timing, it really pulls a ton of timing out and it takes forever for it to recover. Does anyone here know what the Mercedes computer does? When I had my Vette tuned after bolt-ons, the tuner actually pulled out timing. The reasoning is that you don't want the computer pulling timing. When we pulled out timing, the car actually made more power because the computer was not pulling a ton of timing out.

So if the octane booster raises the octane enough to keep the engine from pulling timing, I could see where it would make more power. It would be nice to see some logs of the before and after to see what was happening with the spark advance.

Savage-wp

That was my thinking as well. It's not that you are actually gaining all the power.
It just stops you from loosing power when the ECU pulls lots of timing. I believe all cars pull quite a bit of timing when they detect knock.

konstaner

Like many sellers, this seller is not actually untruthful with his claim of "30HP Gains" . What many seem to miss and not ask is what is the percentage expected power increase. For example 30HP gain on a modifies 750HP engine would be reasonable BUT 30HP gain on a 500HP engine would be very doubtful.

Biggreenogg

Off to watch the Twilight Zone marathon.