Devastated
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'18 C63A Cabriolet
I'm not going to rehash issues that have been addressed already. It's not helpful to the OP, and it's obvious you're just looking to be a douche after being called out for being demonstrably wrong given that you're now trying to question my competence as a lawyer based on the fact I posted an article that summarizes the law rather than getting into a lengthy case law review. On a car forum.
Not a word I said was "wrong." And your initial concern with a diminished value claim was only the difficulty in proof, not Ontario's no-fault laws, so don't take credit where it is not due. You posted that article AFTER many posts back forth in which you didn't even mention the issues it raised, and the article itself didn't even support your position that the cases are hard to prove because damages are speculative. Its thrust was that the claim has been legislated out in areas of no-fault insurance for auto accidents. Two different things, pal. I think lawyers call it distinguishable.
Carry on counselor.
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2013 C63 AMG
"Wrong." Again. But without support. Not a word I said was "wrong."
And your initial concern with a diminished value claim was only the difficulty in proof, not Ontario's no-fault laws, so don't take credit where it is not due. You posted that article AFTER many posts back forth in which you didn't even mention the issues it raised, and the article itself didn't even support your position that the cases are hard to prove because damages are speculative. Its thrust was that the claim has been legislated out in areas of no-fault insurance for auto accidents. Two different things, pal. I think lawyers call it distinguishable.
Carry on counselor.
Not a word I said was "wrong."And your initial concern with a diminished value claim was only the difficulty in proof, not Ontario's no-fault laws, so don't take credit where it is not due. You posted that article AFTER many posts back forth in which you didn't even mention the issues it raised, and the article itself didn't even support your position that the cases are hard to prove because damages are speculative. Its thrust was that the claim has been legislated out in areas of no-fault insurance for auto accidents. Two different things, pal. I think lawyers call it distinguishable.
Carry on counselor.
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From: Milwaukee, WI
2010 C300 4MATIC........ 2011 C63 AMG.............. 2015 CLS400 4MATIC.....
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From: Las Vegas, NV
2014 C63 Coupe
Time for the lawyers (armchair and other) to holster their e-peens.
OP: sorry about the car. All things considered, I'd let the shop repair it to the best of their abilities and then make a decision about what to do, if anything. I had some similar damage to my Z06 from an on-track incident but I found a competent shop to sew it all back together and then kept the car for a few more years. Didn't really lose anything on the sale either.
OP: sorry about the car. All things considered, I'd let the shop repair it to the best of their abilities and then make a decision about what to do, if anything. I had some similar damage to my Z06 from an on-track incident but I found a competent shop to sew it all back together and then kept the car for a few more years. Didn't really lose anything on the sale either.
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From: dfw
'10 C63
sorry for your loss... hopefully it gets back to you quickly...
the rest of the thread was an interesting read as well... since i was curious, i did some searching as well... found another forum talking about DV and seems pretty informative... especially post #80
if you want to read from the start
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/dimin...anada-1019513/
or just look at post 80
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/dimin...3/6/#p26672974
i've had my own experiences with claiming for DV and they've been successful for me especially on a somewhat new car... but that's here in the US... i've seen people sue the other driver directly through small claims for DV and win... but it seems to be a whole different story for ontario...
good luck either way
the rest of the thread was an interesting read as well... since i was curious, i did some searching as well... found another forum talking about DV and seems pretty informative... especially post #80
if you want to read from the start
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/dimin...anada-1019513/
or just look at post 80
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/dimin...3/6/#p26672974
i've had my own experiences with claiming for DV and they've been successful for me especially on a somewhat new car... but that's here in the US... i've seen people sue the other driver directly through small claims for DV and win... but it seems to be a whole different story for ontario...
good luck either way
Last edited by bluejae; Sep 27, 2017 at 01:33 PM.
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2013 C63 AMG
The issue in other Canadian provinces isn't whether diminished value claims are possible, but the difficulty a plaintiff faces in proving their claim. Canadian courts are less open to speculative claims than American courts - at least that is my perspective as a Canadian lawyer who has had some interactions with American lawyers and claims.
Our legal system is more conservative, practically not politically, and slow to respond to technological changes and changes in society that aren't connected to human rights. In some provinces, electronic filing is still a project in the works. In some provinces, you still have to wear a gown for Court.
Diminished value claims make sense from a common sense perspective, but establishing a legal loss and the value of that loss is tough.
Our legal system is more conservative, practically not politically, and slow to respond to technological changes and changes in society that aren't connected to human rights. In some provinces, electronic filing is still a project in the works. In some provinces, you still have to wear a gown for Court.
Diminished value claims make sense from a common sense perspective, but establishing a legal loss and the value of that loss is tough.
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2012 E550 Cabrio
The issue in other Canadian provinces isn't whether diminished value claims are possible, but the difficulty a plaintiff faces in proving their claim. Canadian courts are less open to speculative claims than American courts - at least that is my perspective as a Canadian lawyer who has had some interactions with American lawyers and claims.
Our legal system is more conservative, practically not politically, and slow to respond to technological changes and changes in society that aren't connected to human rights. In some provinces, electronic filing is still a project in the works. In some provinces, you still have to wear a gown for Court.
Diminished value claims make sense from a common sense perspective, but establishing a legal loss and the value of that loss is tough.
Our legal system is more conservative, practically not politically, and slow to respond to technological changes and changes in society that aren't connected to human rights. In some provinces, electronic filing is still a project in the works. In some provinces, you still have to wear a gown for Court.
Diminished value claims make sense from a common sense perspective, but establishing a legal loss and the value of that loss is tough.
Its the speculative nature that makes it nearly impossible, because as far as the court is concerned I don't even have a loss or damages until I have resold the car. So...suppose I do sell the car? Well, who can say for sure what your car would have sold for if that hadn't happened? Used car prices are all over the board. Its not a fixed priced item, and it was repaired back to manufacturers standards. There's "nothing wrong with it", it still performs as before, no warranties are voided, its just a buyers preference thing.
Here in Canada, in BC at least, even if it was possible you would spend far more on lawyers and far more time, energy and heartache than it could ever possibly be worth.
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2013 C63 AMG
I ran through the theoreticals and hypotheticals on this here in BC after getting rear ended and almost but not quite being written off in an 09.
Its the speculative nature that makes it nearly impossible, because as far as the court is concerned I don't even have a loss or damages until I have resold the car. So...suppose I do sell the car? Well, who can say for sure what your car would have sold for if that hadn't happened? Used car prices are all over the board. Its not a fixed priced item, and it was repaired back to manufacturers standards. There's "nothing wrong with it", it still performs as before, no warranties are voided, its just a buyers preference thing.
Here in Canada, in BC at least, even if it was possible you would spend far more on lawyers and far more time, energy and heartache than it could ever possibly be worth.
Its the speculative nature that makes it nearly impossible, because as far as the court is concerned I don't even have a loss or damages until I have resold the car. So...suppose I do sell the car? Well, who can say for sure what your car would have sold for if that hadn't happened? Used car prices are all over the board. Its not a fixed priced item, and it was repaired back to manufacturers standards. There's "nothing wrong with it", it still performs as before, no warranties are voided, its just a buyers preference thing.
Here in Canada, in BC at least, even if it was possible you would spend far more on lawyers and far more time, energy and heartache than it could ever possibly be worth.
The claim likely exists, but is the value of the claim enough to make up for the costs you will incur in proving the claim - costs that you will only be partially compensated for if you succeed at trial given the reluctance of Canadian courts to award anything approaching full indemnification costs in small claims matters.
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'18 C63A Cabriolet
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'18 C63A Cabriolet
Otherwise, how could you ever calculate the loss of value in ANYTHING, not just a car, until you dispose of the asset? Insurance companies could just say "well, what are you complaining about? In twenty years it won't be worth beans anyhow. You have no provable damage." That's a terrible argument. The car is worth less even in its repaired state and even if the repairs were of top notch quality. If you're on this forum you're probably an enthusiast of some level and you probably agree that, all else being equal, you would buy and pay more for a pristine example than a crashed and repaired car. It's common sense. Ask the guy with the true classic or exotic car whether he's been made whole when you crash into his previously unmolested automobile and your insurance company offers no more than to pay to fix it. You're a defendant in the blink of an eye. And rightfully so. Why Canada is behind the times on this is a good question. Maybe Google Esquire and his massive legal skills can be a mover and shaker and get the law changed.
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2013 C63 AMG
Here in the US (got that Google Esquire?) they usually calculate the value of the loss as of the date of the loss. And it makes sense.
Otherwise, how could you ever calculate the loss of value in ANYTHING, not just a car, until you dispose of the asset? Insurance companies could just say "well, what are you complaining about? In twenty years it won't be worth beans anyhow. You have no provable damage." That's a terrible argument. The car is worth less even in its repaired state and even if the repairs were of top notch quality. If you're on this forum you're probably an enthusiast of some level and you probably agree that, all else being equal, you would buy and pay more for a pristine example than a crashed and repaired car. It's common sense. Ask the guy with the true classic or exotic car whether he's been made whole when you crash into his previously unmolested automobile and your insurance company offers no more than to pay to fix it. You're a defendant in the blink of an eye. And rightfully so. Why Canada is behind the times on this is a good question. Maybe Google Esquire and his massive legal skills can be a mover and shaker and get the law changed.
Otherwise, how could you ever calculate the loss of value in ANYTHING, not just a car, until you dispose of the asset? Insurance companies could just say "well, what are you complaining about? In twenty years it won't be worth beans anyhow. You have no provable damage." That's a terrible argument. The car is worth less even in its repaired state and even if the repairs were of top notch quality. If you're on this forum you're probably an enthusiast of some level and you probably agree that, all else being equal, you would buy and pay more for a pristine example than a crashed and repaired car. It's common sense. Ask the guy with the true classic or exotic car whether he's been made whole when you crash into his previously unmolested automobile and your insurance company offers no more than to pay to fix it. You're a defendant in the blink of an eye. And rightfully so. Why Canada is behind the times on this is a good question. Maybe Google Esquire and his massive legal skills can be a mover and shaker and get the law changed.
Your grasp of the law is elementary, and I think it'd be best if you stopped trying to provide information on the law that others may rely on.
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'18 C63A Cabriolet
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'18 C63A Cabriolet
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2013 C63 AMG
This **** should be filtered out and put in it's thread. It's not helping mbworld and it's certainly not helping the OP.
Last edited by Ambystom01; Sep 27, 2017 at 07:26 PM.
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2012 E550 Cabrio
Thread Starter
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From: Toronto
Present: 2019 C43 Estate
Well, the decision has been made for me; the car will NOT be written off (not surprised). $25k CDN worth of damage though. Also sounds like I won't have it back till the beginning of November.
The only positives: I'll be able to get all the trim blacked out, the PPF I had installed will be replaced and the shop won't reinstall the front side marker lights (the bumpers apparently come without the holes cut). Gotta look on the bright side :/
The only positives: I'll be able to get all the trim blacked out, the PPF I had installed will be replaced and the shop won't reinstall the front side marker lights (the bumpers apparently come without the holes cut). Gotta look on the bright side :/
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From: Texas
C63 507 AMG DA Car #19
Dim Value
Just for reference I am going through a dim value claim now on my wifes vehicle.
It is a new luxury ute that was rear-ended by an uninsured motorist. Car only had 4K miles when hit.
No airbag deployment, but damage still @ 16K.
Our appraiser/(hired expert rep) is thinking dim value is around $8K-10K. Just to give you an order of magnitude in this instance.
Funny thing we tried to get the dim value from dealer.... and they gave me the line... if no air bags deployed... then only $1K...... I quipped back... would you like to me make me an offer on this car with that basis???? they declined to talk to me further on the issue at that point
.....
GL.
It is a new luxury ute that was rear-ended by an uninsured motorist. Car only had 4K miles when hit.
No airbag deployment, but damage still @ 16K.
Our appraiser/(hired expert rep) is thinking dim value is around $8K-10K. Just to give you an order of magnitude in this instance.
Funny thing we tried to get the dim value from dealer.... and they gave me the line... if no air bags deployed... then only $1K...... I quipped back... would you like to me make me an offer on this car with that basis???? they declined to talk to me further on the issue at that point
.....
GL.
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From: Sidney, BC
2009 SLK55 AMG. & 2022 GLA250 4Matic
I ran through the theoreticals and hypotheticals on this here in BC after getting rear ended and almost but not quite being written off in an 09.
Its the speculative nature that makes it nearly impossible, because as far as the court is concerned I don't even have a loss or damages until I have resold the car. So...suppose I do sell the car? Well, who can say for sure what your car would have sold for if that hadn't happened? Used car prices are all over the board. Its not a fixed priced item, and it was repaired back to manufacturers standards. There's "nothing wrong with it", it still performs as before, no warranties are voided, its just a buyers preference thing.
Here in Canada, in BC at least, even if it was possible you would spend far more on lawyers and far more time, energy and heartache than it could ever possibly be worth.
Its the speculative nature that makes it nearly impossible, because as far as the court is concerned I don't even have a loss or damages until I have resold the car. So...suppose I do sell the car? Well, who can say for sure what your car would have sold for if that hadn't happened? Used car prices are all over the board. Its not a fixed priced item, and it was repaired back to manufacturers standards. There's "nothing wrong with it", it still performs as before, no warranties are voided, its just a buyers preference thing.
Here in Canada, in BC at least, even if it was possible you would spend far more on lawyers and far more time, energy and heartache than it could ever possibly be worth.
My 2003 E320 had a hell of a hit in 2006. The bill was $26K and the insurer in Ontario insisted they would fix it. It went to a shop I had confidence in but they lacked one piece of equipment and as such the buyer walked. I took it to BC and decided to trade it and got even less but not because of the accident but it was judged to have come from a salt using province. BS but there it was.
My 2011 E350 wagon had a couple of minor accidents and it never bothered the buyer.
As to painting this repair you do not need to paint the whole car. A good shop will be able to blend it back into the original paint if they know what they are doing. The finish you have is tricky but they should be able to do it.
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From: Toronto
Present: 2019 C43 Estate
The certified MB shop who's doing the work apparently has a tool to measure the shine of the clear coat so the match should be perfect. It's the clear the produces the matte finish afterall. Once replaced, the matte PPF should also help mask any differences in finish.
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From: Toronto
Present: 2019 C43 Estate
