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I've been messing with the crank pulley for 40 minutes and I just can't get the timing tools to line up. It honestly feels like the two cams are not in sync together. Once or twice I was able to get part of the flatblade (on the back of the cams) to fit into one cam, but not fit into the other. Look at this picture - the tool fits almost completely over the one cam, but barely grazes the second cam.
At this point it almost feels like I have to use the wrench on just one cam to get the two to line up. I know there has been a ton of debate in this thread and some people saying absolutely do not use the wrench on the cam (while the adjusters are still installed and tight). But I'm not sure what else to do. I just can't seem to get the tools installed using the crank pulley only.
Never in any of the research that I did prior did I find any reference to installing the cams and THEN bringing the engine to 40°, you SET the engine at 40° and then install the cams based solely on the constant that the engine is at 40°....and the components I was referencing was every single rotating component in the entire engine moves when you rotate the crank, but when you leave the crank the **** alone at 40° and install the cams by using only the resistance of the tappets to align the tools then ONLY the cam is moving as the tappet is merely "giving".....
Stop being stuck on the end to end procedure and think about the mechanics. This is NOT a normal circumstance. He's not starting from scratch. He doesn't have to remove the cams, which is what you would normally do if you follow the steps one by one (the research you're referring to).
He may have already messed up by torquing down the cams with the tool in place (cams at 40°) and the motor NOT at 40°. I'm just trying to save him some time by doing something "not by the book" that will work. The cams and motor may be slightly out of sync, lock one in place and move the other to put them back in sync. I'm suggesting to lock the cams in place and move the motor.
I don't understand what's so difficult to understand.
Set the crank at 40°
If the cams are way off and tool doesn't slide right in, slowly rotate the crank in the direction it needs for the tool to fit.
Bolt down the tool
Unbolt the adjusters so the cams are decoupled
Put the motor at 40° (it likely won't be off by much)
Install the timing plate
Re-torque the adjusters
Do the same for the other side.
If this car was in my garage I would have had it sorted faster than it has taken me to write all these posts...
I've been messing with the crank pulley for 40 minutes and I just can't get the timing tools to line up. It honestly feels like the two cams are not in sync together. Once or twice I was able to get part of the flatblade (on the back of the cams) to fit into one cam, but not fit into the other. Look at this picture - the tool fits almost completely over the one cam, but barely grazes the second cam.
At this point it almost feels like I have to use the wrench on just one cam to get the two to line up. I know there has been a ton of debate in this thread and some people saying absolutely do not use the wrench on the cam (while the adjusters are still installed and tight). But I'm not sure what else to do. I just can't seem to get the tools installed using the crank pulley only.
Sorry man, this thread sort of got out of hand.
Is that pic with the crank at 40? If so, exhaust is off quite a bit.
You can put the wrench on it, loosen the adjuster and move it so the rear bar locks it in place.
Is that pic with the crank at 40? If so, exhaust is off quite a bit.
You can put the wrench on it, loosen the adjuster and move it so the rear bar locks it in place.
I started with the crank at 40 and have been slowly moving around. I can't tell exactly but the crank looks to be somewhere around 37 right now.
When you say put the wrench on it and loosen the adjuster - I can't do that. I can't loosen the cam adjuster until the timing tools are installed, right? And I can't install the timing tools due to the problems described.
edit: Just realized you may be saying loosen only the one adjuster that is out of sync, and wrench that one until it fits in place.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
I haven’t done this like a lot of you guys have, but it seems he somehow got the cams out of sync with each other. The tool is never going to fit regardless of the direction he rotates the crank. Unless you can decouple the adjusters without the locking tool in place and rotate the cams independently from each other, it seems like he should start over. It’s the only way to make absolutely sure it’s done right at this point IMHO.
I haven’t done this like a lot of you guys have, but it seems he somehow got the cams out of sync with each other. The tool is never going to fit regardless of the direction he rotates the crank. Unless you can decouple the adjusters without the locking tool in place and rotate the cams independently from each other, it seems like he should start over. It’s the only way to make absolutely sure it’s done right at this point IMHO.
Why can't I just use a wrench on one of the cams to bring it into alignment with the other? Will wrenching one cam automatically move the other cam?
I started with the crank at 40 and have been slowly moving around. I can't tell exactly but the crank looks to be somewhere around 37 right now.
When you say put the wrench on it and loosen the adjuster - I can't do that. I can't loosen the cam adjuster until the timing tools are installed, right? And I can't install the timing tools due to the problems described.
edit: Just realized you may be saying loosen only the one adjuster that is out of sync, and wrench that one until it fits in place.
You are way out then and have to start from scratch. Hold the crank at 40, unbolt both cams and re-fit the tool.
Sorry man. I was hoping you could save some time.
This time make 100000% certain the crank is at 40 when you set up the cams. Lesson learned.
Why can't I just use a wrench on one of the cams to bring it into alignment with the other? Will wrenching one cam automatically move the other cam?
You will spend more time trying to move the intake cam with the crank and the exhaust cam (with adjuster loose) with a wrench than you will starting over.
You are way out then and have to start from scratch. Hold the crank at 40, unbolt both cams and re-fit the tool.
Sorry man. I was hoping you could save some time.
This time make 100000% certain the crank is at 40 when you set up the cams. Lesson learned.
I really do appreciate the help and you constantly offering advice in this thread.
I don't think I'm way out of timing. I currently have three of the four timing tools in place. I have the timing tool on the top/front of the cams - flush in with both cams. I have the back blade installed into one cam (the top) but it just won't slide into the back of the second cam. Seriously makes no sense. This thing is so close to aligned.
By the way, the crank is at about (edit) 39 degrees with the timing tools in place.
You have GOT to start from scratch....stop trying to make them fit anywhere other than 40° or you are GOING to f*ck up....37 and 41° are NOT 40° and if you spin it over a single time with the timing out just enough you are going to wreck the top end of that engine
Got everything lined up finally. Both timing tools are on the cams. Crank is around 38-39 degrees (can't really tell as there are not markings for every degree). Taking phaser bolts off. Will try to put it all back together and start it up tomorrow.
I think getting that back timing piece on the back of the cams is extremely difficult because everything is under tension/pressure still. It's much easier to do after removing the cams and doing an install.
Fire her up and take a video. I hate to say it but I kind of already said just redo the whole thing and remove the cams. Until Jasonoff said don’t do it, yet you still had to redo it all! C’est la vie!
So I have one more hurdle to get over before I can start it, but it doesn't seem like a major one. Coolant. I've lost some coolant during this engine work by pressing on coolant lines in the pulley area. The coolant leaks from an area right above the crank pulley. I know there are a few coolant lines in that area. I've checked them all and I can't find any leaks.
I wanted to do one last check before starting the engine so I removed the coolant cap to check the level. As soon as I remove the coolant cap, coolant comes gushing out from the aforementioned spot - front of the engine block, above the crank pulley. I tried to diagnose it by feeling around in there and I found the problem. This plastic coolant connector snapped off. All my coolant is now slowly leaking out from that location.
I think I just bumped into that part one too many times while working with the crank and the pulleys and such. I assume it's just a cheap replacement but obviously I can't start the car with a broken coolant line. Anyone recognize that part?
i believe it's a part shown in this picture. It's the black hose right in front of where the number 2 arrow points. It comes from the left and plugs into something in there.
edit: I found what it is. It's a vent hose. Mercedes part # 2045000372. Shouldn't be too difficult to replace. Can I just remove all this EGR-type stuff on the top front of the engine so that I can see down there?
I broke the exact same fitting while doing mine, but was able to just connect a piece of hose to the broken off plastic nipple with a small hose clamp and all has been good for 40k mi.....
I broke the exact same fitting while doing mine, but was able to just connect a piece of hose to the broken off plastic nipple with a small hose clamp and all has been good for 40k mi.....
I removed all the EGR stuff and I'm at the broken fitting. It doesn't look like the type of fitting that I can just clamp a hose over.
I think we're talking about slightly different things. I understand where your part probably broke and how that was fixable by clamping a hose over it. But mine broke at a different part - the part that screws into the engine block - and can't be fixed with a hose clamp.
If it broke at the green part, I could just clamp over that. But mine broke at the red part, half of it came off and half got stuck in the engine block. So I don't need a new hose (the green part) I just need this red connector. Can't find any part number or anything for this connector. Ugh.
Considering the car is an aging chassis everything is bound to break at some point. Dare I say I feel you should go with replacing things that broke similar to what the dealer would do. Nothing wrong with patch up work since most the time it works but the peace of mind and a job well done sticking to oem is a better feeling to most people.
2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
I don't believe you will be able to buy the plastic connector on its own. You will likely need to replace the part the connector affixes to as it is likely permanently attached to it.
I think we're talking about slightly different things. I understand where your part probably broke and how that was fixable by clamping a hose over it. But mine broke at a different part - the part that screws into the engine block - and can't be fixed with a hose clamp.
If it broke at the green part, I could just clamp over that. But mine broke at the red part, half of it came off and half got stuck in the engine block. So I don't need a new hose (the green part) I just need this red connector. Can't find any part number or anything for this connector. Ugh.
It's hard to judge the sizes in the photos. I could be talking rubbish but . . . Is the "bit" stuck in the Aluminium Screwed in? If so get a bolt that fits, drill a hole through the centre of the bolt to match the plastic parts hole and then cut the head off. Do the same with the plastic part and join the bolts with with a rubber pipe. I would use gasket seal on the bolts and I would Tap (Cut a thread) in the plastic to match the thread of the bolt to be inserted in the plastic.
It's alive. It runs. It sounds so good too - I haven't heard it without a terrible lifter noise for months, so hearing it sound normal again is awesome. I had to buy a new thermostat, Mercedes doesn't make just that plastic connector. So I paid $160 for a one inch piece of plastic.All total, I replaced my lifters for around $900 total (about $400 of which was just tools). I'd still rather do that than pay a dealership $6000.
Huge thanks go out to everyone who helped me in this thread, notably Jasonoff, AMG3.2, go team, ec_nova, jptaylor, and the others.I was "100% certain" I had done the timing perfectly and everyone quickly proved me wrong. It was my fault for never checking the crank pulley after setting it once.
Most importantly, thanks to Mercedes for making a clearly defective engine part and refusing to own up to it so that people out of warranty like me have to go through all this crap. Honestly it was fun, getting to go through this extremely complex engine and seeing all the high quality parts they use. This engine is a work of art.
Man that is AWESOME....so glad you were able to get it right, and as AMG3.2 and others will tell you it feels SO good to have done it yourself.....don't forget to change that oil pretty damn quick, I actually changed mine before startup and then again after about 30min of runtime
12-04-2017, 09:38 PM
Honestly it was fun, getting to go through this extremely complex engine and seeing all the high quality parts they use. This engine is a work of art. 
