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are you kidding me? That post is made after I called you out before you posted post 16. Why do you even think I brought up 3 runners? It was because you said 1 runner was different before post 16 and that was edited out and in post 16 you noticed it's more than 1 and you so cleverly post in 16 that 1 runner was swapped out that means 2 are different.
We still dont have the other side views of each headers.
Again you brought up runners before post 16 that was edited out.
when you edit a post is says that the post was edited. tell me what post I edited that part out. You are totally wrong.
We have parts to make, I will leave it with this.
We have the ability to make any exhaust part we want. We could easily take any header, or exhaust part from anyone and copy it. However we have integrity and take pride in our own work. We don't steal other people's stuff. We dont ride anyones coattails or hard work We have respect for the work others have put in. Unlike some companies we want to make the best parts and stand behind them with a no BS warranty policy. We do however to not tolerate other who choose to copy or imitate the hard work of others to make a quick buck.
We have parts to make, I will leave it with this.
We have the ability to make any exhaust part we want. We could easily take any header, or exhaust part from anyone and copy it. However we have integrity and take pride in our own work. We don't steal other people's stuff. We dont ride anyones coattails or hard work We have respect for the work others have put in. Unlike some companies we want to make the best parts and stand behind them with a no BS warranty policy. We do however to not tolerate other who choose to copy or imitate the hard work of others to make a quick buck.
with that being said do you plan to discount your headers? Obviously not to VRP level but just to make a little more competitive? Not trying to start anything just asking
We have parts to make, I will leave it with this.
We have the ability to make any exhaust part we want. We could easily take any header, or exhaust part from anyone and copy it. However we have integrity and take pride in our own work. We don't steal other people's stuff. We dont ride anyones coattails or hard work We have respect for the work others have put in. Unlike some companies we want to make the best parts and stand behind them with a no BS warranty policy. We do however to not tolerate other who choose to copy or imitate the hard work of others to make a quick buck.
I'm not wading into the back and forth as I know nothing about header design, but question for you. If you truly believe this, why are you fighting it out with your customers trying to win hearts and minds rather than hiring an IP/Patent attorney and sending a cease and desist?
with that being said do you plan to discount your headers? Obviously not to VRP level but just to make a little more competitive? Not trying to start anything just asking
We are always looking to get our headers into the hand of people who want them. With that said we will alwasy give a good deal.
Always a chance was a batch rejected for QC from some US supplier, but given the price and seller reviews (and it appears in stock in US), if I was looking, I'd take a shot. At this price... still might
in the Audi world, a friend of mine was selling lots of cast turbo manifolds that he designed. a shop copied them exactly but in lower quality and defects. after some time, and lost money he stopped manufacturing and stopped sales. another friend of mine produced hand build custom headers for the toyota 4age engine in street/race format based off a formula atlantic design by hasselgren engines. OBX copied his design and he stopped sales. he did make a final run of 10 and 20 units and they were all paid upfront and in full.
as far as the headers in question...the pictures provided show that the headers are completely different. if we're missing something you should also include your header versus the copy header for reference. i don't doubt there are copies of products out there, but we'll definitely need some evidence other than hear say.
^agreed. Unless I'm missing something, the VRP header is completely different, aside from it being a header of course... The runner for cylinders #1 and #4 are swapped in either version, and the collector design is totally different too... VRP collects all 4 runners in one, where as MBH has the runner for cylinder #2 merging downstream from the main collector. Not saying one is better that the other, but there are destinct differences for sure...
They are 18% off today...the listing shows these for $573 with free shipping that's like...unheard of. You really can't go wrong at least trying these.
Hate to keep beating a dead horse here, but it appears the VRP headers have at least two (2) major features that are different than the MBH ones: a runner for cylinder #1 and the collector. You could even say the weld locations and splices are different too, which is obvious. In my experience, there aren't that many ways to make headers since runner lengths are based on firing order (hence my question in another thread asking if the cylinder #1 runner looked right), plus, you're working with a very limited amount of space so not that many ways to do the routing... You can't just flip-flop all the runners and get screwy with the routing or they'll perform like ****, so not sure what you expect the competition to do... I mean, just flip through a Jegs manual and see how many LS headers look almost identical, despite being from different manufacturers.
*Edit: another example is turbo design... Coming from the Audi/VW world, take a quick look at Borg-Warner vs. SRP vs. Garrett vs. Joe Blow, etc., etc. for the same K04-based turbo and you'd think they'd all be suing each other cause they're practically indistinguishable! Literally, tiny, tiny differences in vane design is all that differentiates them from each other, so how is this scenario any different? At a certain point, there's only a couple ways to skin the same cat.
so they may have copied the "design" but due to the different runner pairing they're considered even by TRADEMARK and COPYWRITE infringement a different unit entirely.
only dyno's will decide which is a better unit...in the end...its all about which is the better unit and have the numbers to prove it.
Hate to keep beating a dead horse here, but it appears the VRP headers have at least two (2) major features that are different than the MBH ones: a runner for cylinder #1 and the collector. You could even say the weld locations and splices are different too, which is obvious. In my experience, there aren't that many ways to make headers since runner lengths are based on firing order (hence my question in another thread asking if the cylinder #1 runner looked right), plus, you're working with a very limited amount of space so not that many ways to do the routing... You can't just flip-flop all the runners and get screwy with the routing or they'll perform like ****, so not sure what you expect the competition to do... I mean, just flip through a Jegs manual and see how many LS headers look almost identical, despite being from different manufacturers.
*Edit: another example is turbo design... Coming from the Audi/VW world, take a quick look at Borg-Warner vs. SRP vs. Garrett vs. Joe Blow, etc., etc. for the same K04-based turbo and you'd think they'd all be suing each other cause they're practically indistinguishable! Literally, tiny, tiny differences in vane design is all that differentiates them from each other, so how is this scenario any different? At a certain point, there's only a couple ways to skin the same cat.
The length of the primary tubes and the engines firing order have zero correlation. I understand your thought and what you are talking about is just theory not rigid guide lines. You can infinity design a header. In fact when we design this header it was pretty much outside the box of what was around. If I made a 4-1 we would have sold double the amount of headers. We chose to me unique and make something kinda weird. We felt that our weird header was pretty unique to us and that we use it in our advertising. When people see that header they think of MBH. This is why we trademarked it. I dont go trademark my E55 headers because it wasnt that unique. If you are not doing something unique the LS headers than there are no protections thats why ARH got their 55 headers knocked off. There are companies out there that knock off other peoples stuff. At SEMA a few years ago US Marshals raided the event and for knock off stuff. We are not claiming the function of a header, we are claiming that the ones in question infringe on our protected trademark. They are much too close in shape and design. Thats all. Our header design is distinctive where as a set of downpipes not so much. So no one tries to protect their downpipes unless they come up with a distinctive way of doing. Lots of headers fall into the same boat of not unique, like many 4 onto 1 headers do. Many turbo housing like you mentions are also not very distinctive. Back to the point, We felt that our 63 header design was pretty original and became known to be synonymous with MBH. It has a form of distinctiveness where you can look at it and say that's MBH. In fact I think somewhere on MBworld someone posting a picture of our headers on a car and asked whos headers they were. Many people replayed just by looking at them that they were MBH headers. I dont know if there is any more to really add to this thread by anyone, so Im stepping out,
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The runner for cylinders #1 and #4 are swapped in either version, and the collector design is totally different too... VRP collects all 4 runners in one, where as MBH has the runner for cylinder #2 merging downstream from the main collector. Not saying one is better that the other, but there are destinct differences for sure...
