go team

You may have a part of the adjuster that’s out of tolerance. Either the front covers are bent out of shape and allows too much oil to bleed out in higher oil pressures or an oem bolt (one or more of the five per phaser) no longer applying the appropriate torque as they are TTY.

Hook up an obd2 and check the camshaft values desired vs actual to see what is happening. If one bank is delayed at all or not matching the other side it will throw codes.

Since everything below 3k works as it should, suggests higher load timing is affected where things are based on the higher oil pressure solely.

mrfatd

Please keep those coming! You just saved me from making the same mistake! I also put the plates incorrectly thinking these are all the same, though I caught the error before assembling everything together so you saved me some time! There are 100s of people simply reading these posts without posting anything and you have possibly saved someone in the future from making the same mistake as we did!

Thanks again... back to the garage I go lol
Good luck with your codes!

rawkkrawler

Hopefully a final update!

I brought the car by a local shop that specializes in German cars. With him working on mostly newer autos, I was reluctant to start with him. It's the reason I started this thread.

So I chose not to reset the codes so he could use his own tools to interpret them. Turns out, his STAR computer said the same thing. He cleared them.

He then taught in the cam adjusters and took it out for a ride. I left the car with him and told him to drive it as hard as he was comfortable with, and he did. No codes, runs perfect.

So I know what I did. Initially when this all started, I pulled the cams to change the lifter buckets and get a better look at the lobes. I was meticulous with a silver sharpie, marked absolutely everything.

If I hadn't put the right bank intake/exhaust lock plates on wrong, everything would have most likely been fine. But when I started taking things back apart, no more silver sharpie.

I installed the cam adjusters with the words and tool facing mostly up. So now I know why some need to get the adjusters re-learned. If you are off by a tooth or two, the computer gets really confused, mine sure did.

My thoughts on the CEL under acceleration... under low load, the timing (off a tooth or two on the exhaust) is relatively happy. Under acceleration, the cam adjuster wants to move further than it can physically can go.

Maybe someone can explain that better, but regardless, the car can't figure out how to get the timing correct under load so it assumes things are bad. And they kind of are. The re-learn told the car where things actually were.

So... if I were to do it all over again, I would have used the sharpie every time. I just found myself rushing things after my 3rd time removing the adjusters. I know now.

Thanks to everyone that chimed in! I know the regulars get frustrated when people open a new thread with searching. Fact is, some of these beaten to death topics have no actual resolution.

I did a search and found one thread on the cam adjuster re-learn, I think it was roadkillrob actually.

Thanks again.

go team

I would like to say there’s a sheet of paper that comes with each lockplates that directs you to instructions.

that should also prevent future issues. 🤷‍♂️ But like most people they’ll find the sheet set aside and not refer to it until they run into a problem.

rawkkrawler

And you'd be right, a super easy QR code in fact. I even printed it. I read the part where it said the cam adjusters are intake/exhaust specific. Knowing that already, and knowing that I was only doing one at a time as I only had one set of timing tools, I read no further. Maybe other won't maybe they will. It was my mistake. 63motorsports put together a great set of instructions. What I ultimately learned is that the lock plates themselves make the cam adjusters intake/exhaust specific.

Wait, am I the only one that doesn't read instructions? Well, IKEA may be the exception for me.

roadkillrob

Glad the re-learn got you sorted, I wonder if the car got itself into a weird state after the initial issues with the plates mixed up causing it to need the re-learn to figure itself out - most people never even bother with the re-learn and never have issues. As for the cam adjuster being off, it technically makes no difference the orientation you install it in as it is loose on the camshaft, the alignment tools set the cam and the cam adjuster plate to the right place the cam adjuster itself makes no difference what tooth it is on as long as the cam alignment tools are all right when you tighten the bolts. (Exact words for WIS are Camshaft adjuster (4) can be inserted at any desired position. Insert washer (12a) before inserting camshaft adjuster (4).

This thread will help a lot of people as I think you found all the things that can go wrong on this install, but good job working through it and getting up and running!

go team

The relearn was also advertised in the product description.

”A relearn procedure may be required.”




in all seriousness glad this worked out! Time to drive the car!

mrfatd

Out of curiosity. After each time you dissembled the adjuster, did you replace the friction washer with a new one? How critical is it to get a new washer when taking those off?

rawkkrawler

I changed the bolt and friction washer after each use. Not sure what’s required on the washers, but FCP sent me extra so I used them.

rawkkrawler

Another update, and this one has shifted to a rough idle.

I was hesitant to piggy back on this thread, but everything I've gone through is no doubt related.

So it's been 30 days or so. Most of my issues if anyone is following have been self inflicted. Most responses here have pointed me in a good direction.

On the topic of rough idling or misfire codes (P0300, P0301, etc), there seems to be two categories.

First scenario, happens out of nowhere. Well, sort of. Culprit after lots of reading is motor mounts, O2 sensor, MAF, coils, or plugs. I'm not in that category most likely as my rough idle came right after a major list of maintenance items being performed. The list included 63motorsports cam adjuster rebuild, new lifter buckets, fuel injectore, plugs, PCV valve, new intake gasket, and some other small things. Although this rough idle out of the blue doesn't seem to apply to me, I've followed those threads dating back to 2016. Unfortunately, and seems to happen frequently, the OP disappears after most of you provide options to resolve. Maybe they just sell the car, who knows.

Second scenario, people like me who performed the above work and now have that one lingering issue, this being a rough idle. My local indy works with more modern German cars but did smoke test the system, and found no issues. I have read that an internal vacuum leak around the throttle bodies may create an issue. I inspected everything while in there, no pits or holes. Someone here posted a screenshot of the ME screen (ME 9.7) in STAR at idle to look at the specified vs actual values of the ignition angle, camshaft position, etc. I showed that to him and he stated that he did look at it and it was fine. Didn't see him do it, but I'll trust his response.

I'm not big on coincidences when it comes to issues. I believe something small is wrong. Compression is all consistent around 180. Plugs are new, maybe a bad one out of the box? Coils were removed and replaced a few times during my early issues, maybe a damaged boot? Doubting the O2 sensors are bad, never had a CEL indicating and issue. Same with MAF. Everything is 100% stock, and ran perfect prior to digging into the repairs. The issue seems small enough where the car isn't terribly unhappy. I believe Barry mentioned that a misfire must happen quite a few times per second to trigger a CEL. I use Carly now, and it doesn't seem advanced enough to show misfires prior to a CEL. Either way, the misfire CEL, when it infrequently happens, are across both banks. I guess I just can't wrap my head around what sensors the car sees to point to a specific cylinder misfire. I can understand if a coil was bad, there's some logic there that would communicate back to the ECU. But how does something like a vacuum leak trigger a specific cylinder misfire, or more importantly, how does the ECU know?

And last, maybe something to it, I drove the car in the rain for the first time in months last night. Sounded different. Popped the hood and looked to see if anything stood out. Nothing. For some reason, I popped the oil cap of while it was running. Tons of vacuum. And immediately heard what sounded like a large vacuum leak in the back of the engine near the PCV. Shortly after the idle dipped and it through a P0306 and P0308 code. Restarted it and it was fine.

I was hesitant to mention this because the car always has a rough idle, cold and warm. The rain might have been a fluke, and maybe the vacuum and sounds at the rear when pulling the filler cover.

Anyway, that's my latest issue. Hopefully this will get sorted and I can close out this thread for good. Again, most rough idle searches have been out of the blue, where mine is a result of tearing into the top end.

Thanks again!

E63007

Hey there! When I rebuilt my Engine Top end back in 17-18’, I came upon the realization putting things back together that my Passenger CamShaft Adjusters were not only installed on the wrong cams(ie-Intake on exhaust & visa versa) but I went so far as to take them apart just to be sure the slots weren’t so badly worn and to swap the end of the pin (Ala-Tasos). It was then that I came to the realization that whoever “repaired” these before was an incompetent fool as the gear in the center of both plates was installed backwards in both rendering them not only useless, but due to the fact that the “front side” of that gear has a smaller radius such that when it was swapped to the backside, it did NOT allow the Adjuster to seat against the end of the CamShaft. In fact, it would have wobbled had it not been for the teeth, now improperly positioned more forward than should be, barley hanging onto the Drive Gear below as well as for the 115nm Torque (45Nm + 90*) of the CamBolt itself!. It’s a miracle the engine didn’t self destruct In the thousands of miles the previous owner drove it haphazardly! Crazy! Also, when I was repairing it, I also did it 1 by 1 as well and marked each just to be careful however, due the idiot “mechanic” before me, the backing plates may have been mistakenly swapped as well, so I have to admit that although the engine runs great, I reserve for the possibility that I may have one or two backing plates improperly positioned perhaps in the wrong Adjusters since I just put them back together making sure each of the parts came from the same unit, only this time making sure that gear that holds the pin was installed correctly, however since the engine is running awesome, I consider myself lucky!

As for your rough idle, have you inspected the Intake Manifold? Sure, you said your guy did a smoke test, but if there is any blow by internally (ie-around the TB Wire Loom where mine was riddled with holes) it WILL effect idle. In my case, it caused my idle to continually increase as I drove home from having picked it up the first day I took possession! I started work on it the next day as it was effecting the tranny shift points so badly it was dangerous! Little did I know then just how many “issues” I would uncover/repair, but in the end, WORTH IT!😎

rawkkrawler

Fortunately mine wasn't that bad. A quick swap of the INT and EX plates and I was running well. Only issue is the slight rough idle.

rawkkrawler

Question, is there an M156 specific forum within MB World? I ask because I’ve targeted my issues and questions here on the C63 W204, but mine most likely carry over to other models as well. The feedback has been great here, just wanted to cast a larger net. These engines no doubt exhibit similar issues across all platforms. With these engines starting to age out, mine with 88k miles, I think a sub forum would be interesting. Just a thought.

And yes, I still have my rough idle. Leaning toward a vacuum leak despite the passing smoke test. Just need to dig into it.

mrfatd

To add my 2 cents, since I recently went through the camshaft adjuster plate swap myself, my update so far:

- Car had a "poor/rough" idle when starting cold. Idle would get fine after the car warms up. Loud mechanical sound on each startup. This was all BEFORE I swapped the plates
- After plates have been swapped, the rough idle is still there on cold startups. The mechanical sound is gone. Engine runs great after about 30 sec of idle.
- After swapping my plates, I drove about 1000km without any issues until one morning (couple of weeks of driving after the work was done) I get a CEL and I also got misfire on banks #1, 3 and 8. I did not perform a relearn yet.
- I wiped the codes with Carly and drove few days so far without any CELs (yet). The car drives and pulls fine. If I see a CEL again, I will perform a relearn.

I agree @rawkkrawler , a specific M156 forum would reach a much greater audience. I don't know if one exists but would love to see one as well. Would an W164 ML63 have a larger community than a W204 C63?

Let us @rawkkrawler how your stuff goes. Best of luck!

rawkkrawler

I’m curious where your codes are coming from. My original misfire codes were happening often and after higher RPM’s but started getting less frequent as the plates had time to break in. It looks like you have put some miles on yours, and is what 63Motorsports recommends followed by an oil change. My car isn’t a daily driver, maybe gets 20 miles per week. So I’m still on a “fresh” service.

I plan to give updates once and if I find the source of the rough idle. Apparently it’s so slight that the ECU isn’t recognizing it as a valid concern. I did get a can of both brake cleaner as well as starting fluid and sprayed around every accessible vacuum line and intake mating surface. No change in idle whatsoever. I read where someone had an o-ring leak at the brake booster line, nothing.

Wondering what DIY scan tool people are using to read live data. Not looking to spend a fortune, but my Carly isn’t doing the job. I’d like to see the plug misfires in real time as well as the idle info to read cam and crank position.

roadkillrob

I can suggest scan tools as I have used a few. Carly is crap especially with their subscription model. Really you need to spend 150-200 to get something useful, either an icarsoft MB specific model or a foxwell with MB software. Those will read data steams and reset things like airbag. Next step from there is a launch or Autel or similar 700-800 but will do all brands and can do teach in procedures like cam adjuster relearn, I know the launch x431 diagun for 750 will do teach in.

rawkkrawler

Thanks Rob! I've always valued your feedback. I literally ordered an iCarsoft scanner just before seeing your message. It's a lighter duty model that is supposed to read live date. It's an Amazon purchase and will be here tomorrow. If it works, great. If not, I'll send it back.

Thanks again!

mrfatd

@rawkkrawler how goes? Did you ever figure out what was going on?

rawkkrawler

Short answer, no.

I did upgrade to a decent model iCarsoft scanner that reads real-time data. I wanted to specifically look at the desired vs actual camshaft data. Turns out it’s perfect. Then I also wanted to see individual spark data to count any misfires. Also turned out perfect, no misfires.

The rough idle is still there. This isn’t my daily driver, might only put 20 miles a week on it. I’m really just living with it now until the car decides it’s not happy and throws a code. Hasn’t done it in quite some time. Kind of drives me crazy, but I still plan to post an update if I do anything to improve where I’m at.

roadkillrob

Have you ever watched your fuel trims at idle, now that you have all your other stuff sorted and confirmed with the scan tool, I am almost wondering if you have a small vacuum leak from your manifold removal either externally or internally (how was your throttle plate under the throttle body harness channel where it normally gets a leak?)

rawkkrawler

Apologies for the picture size, wasn't sure what the steps were to make them smaller. First pic is my cam adjuster numbers.

So the fuel trims at idle is a parameter that i didn't look at, wasn't really sure what to look at to verify internal vacuum leaks. That is what I believe I'm dealing with at this point.

The internals of the manifold seemed to look surprisingly good. Of course I've second guessed if I may have damaged a vacuum line when re-assembling. But everything did seem to go back together well.

What are the good/bad numbers regarding fuel trims that I should be looking for?

Thanks again Rob!

roadkillrob

Once warmed up trims should be pretty much zero unless you have row air boxes. The throttle plate almost always leaks under the wire harness at first I can’t see in the pics the other side of the plate but that is usually the place to look back side of the low corner where the wire harness runs. Fuel trims may indicate an external leak but an internal leak won’t affect the fuel trims.

rawkkrawler

I'll take a look at the fuel trims next. I do believe I ruled out the external vacuum leaks. Local independent shop did the smoke test with good results. Then I tried both carb cleaner and brake clean on anything/everything accessible. No increase or decrease in idle. My plan is to grab some new intake gaskets/hardware and take another look around. May not get to it until the first of the year as I'll be travelling quite a bit.