Thoughts on the W206 C63s?
#51
There are already built C63s for the US market, some already in the US, like te one below. I believe that was built around November or December. No idea when pricing will be announced or when these cars will be released for sale.
https://www.mbrvc.com/inventory/new-...f8ab0rr189118/
The cars that have already been seen at dealers and track events are most likely trial prodction/pilot build/pre production cars that mbusa has in their fleet for now. Some will eventualy be released and sold through dealerships.
As for being able to order an MB with no pricing, MB is getting better about releasing pricing early but it is an unfortunately normal thing for them to do.
https://www.mbrvc.com/inventory/new-...f8ab0rr189118/
The cars that have already been seen at dealers and track events are most likely trial prodction/pilot build/pre production cars that mbusa has in their fleet for now. Some will eventualy be released and sold through dealerships.
As for being able to order an MB with no pricing, MB is getting better about releasing pricing early but it is an unfortunately normal thing for them to do.
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Mayur999 (01-30-2024)
#52
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2019 C63CS
Thanks for posting this. For what it’s worth, I called Rockville Centre, the dealer that has the car listed above. Apparently, it’s not spoken for and it’s supposed to arrive sometime in the first full week of February. The dealer thinks the MSRP will be $95-100K but MB hasn’t told them anything. Unsurprisingly, they seem pretty interested in trying to sell it.
#53
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I wonder if it actually arrives to dealer next week. That seems rather soon. But good to know.
Will be interested to see how it plays out with sales and the MSRP once released.
Will be interested to see how it plays out with sales and the MSRP once released.
#54
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https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/n...63-still-fast/
Looks like release for sale this week in Australia.
Looks like release for sale this week in Australia.
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The Rest is History
Thanks for posting this. For what it’s worth, I called Rockville Centre, the dealer that has the car listed above. Apparently, it’s not spoken for and it’s supposed to arrive sometime in the first full week of February. The dealer thinks the MSRP will be $95-100K but MB hasn’t told them anything. Unsurprisingly, they seem pretty interested in trying to sell it.
#57
I agree with almost everything in your post. I also have had the tour in Affalterbach (although not for European Delivery ). But as was previously stated, where do you go from the W222/C217/W213 and make them even better cars? 600+ hp is already enough to do nearly anything, the suspension on these cars is capable of nearly anything, and the luxury inside is also sublime. This gets back into the plateau comment - have we hit a plateau? If yes, what do you do next? A company doesn't stay in front by continuing the same product line for another generation. Yes, have they lost their way, sure, and they are trying new things with the hybrid models and 1000 lb-ft models and everything, but the reality is, we've hit a plateau and there's no easy solutions that will fix any of it. Just like that 5 year old iPhone, or the very laptop I'm typing on now.
I guess I just dislike reading all the hate folks give when these things are incredible marvels of engineering, created by many individuals who are extremely intelligent and capable. I'm all for better ideas, but I don't see any in this thread, which must also include all of the constraints that currently exist and unknowns of the future of the car industry. The only idea I think we can all agree to though is to bring back the buttons for the radio and climate control (as VW has already committed to do).
I guess I just dislike reading all the hate folks give when these things are incredible marvels of engineering, created by many individuals who are extremely intelligent and capable. I'm all for better ideas, but I don't see any in this thread, which must also include all of the constraints that currently exist and unknowns of the future of the car industry. The only idea I think we can all agree to though is to bring back the buttons for the radio and climate control (as VW has already committed to do).
The new cars could just have been a facelift on them, or add all the goodies to the new platform. But instead, AMG went with this insane E-Performance idea. They made the cars so damn heavy and complicated plagued with tons of issues.
#58
BMW's business model seems to be working. This was the way Mercedes should have gone. Instead they tried to revolutionize the industry as they saw it and it's not working out. A V8 63 with a fully electric model option would have been the way, similar to what BMW will be offering with the next gen M3/4.
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places (02-01-2024)
#59
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I agree and the plateau actually comes from the previous gen, C218, W212 and W221. From there they had very little to improve on, and very little tech to add, even so the W213 and W222 are bloody masterpieces. We lived in an era, where we had Sedans with V8 BiTurbo engines as powerful as supercars (in 2012) and just as fast. The CLS 63 AMG in 2012 would beat on a Gallardo, 458 from its time pretty easily. From there on, very little was added in terms of mechanics and evolution of these cars.
The new cars could just have been a facelift on them, or add all the goodies to the new platform. But instead, AMG went with this insane E-Performance idea. They made the cars so damn heavy and complicated plagued with tons of issues.
The new cars could just have been a facelift on them, or add all the goodies to the new platform. But instead, AMG went with this insane E-Performance idea. They made the cars so damn heavy and complicated plagued with tons of issues.
The E-performance idea is definitely controversial, but with emissions regulations, I don't see where there were many other options. Nonetheless, yes, what they've created still appears to be in it's infancy at best. I'm not a fan, but at least they're pushing on the envelope.
On the separate post about BMW and Porsche - those buyers are a different breed. No matter how ugly the BMW, no matter how terrible the exhaust sounds, no matter how underpowered, no matter how bland the interior, and no matter how unreliable, there were still be tons of people who flock to buy the latest BMW performance vehicle. It's part of the successful branding they created in having the "ultimate driving machine". Mercedes doesn't have that kind of cult following; there is some on the AMG side, but not much, and definitely not to the BMW/M level. Similarly with Porsche, where their following has given Porsche the ability to sell very expensive cars (and yet if you read up on the 911, they change hands fairly often because the older guys who buy them end up seeing how uncomfortable they are). I actually find Porsche to be a different success story, just with how the 911 has come back, how the Cayenne saved the company, how they made smaller cars that were going to be laughed at (Cayman and Macan) into extreme successes, and how they came out with an exciting electric car like the Taycan. I give Porsche a lot of positive credit with their success.
Last edited by Viper98912; 01-31-2024 at 09:42 PM.
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Drone_S213 (02-01-2024)
#60
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No, their quoted times are standard. Any "in production" car says estimates 4-6 weeks, any "Product not Shipped" car says 3-4 weeks, any "on water" car says 1-2 weeks, any "VPC" car says 4-5 days, any "Intransit 2 MBRVC" says 1-2 days, it's just the banners they put on. Doesn't mean anything. They had S Classes say "VPC 5-7 days" for 6 months.
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Mayur999 (02-01-2024)
#61
Never having owned a 218/212 (almost did though!) and a 221, but test driven all of them, I'd like to think that the 4.0TT with the 9 speed and updated ECU programming were much better cars than the 5.5TT and the 7 speeds. Add in the increased tech, luxury, and beauty, and I still think the 213/222 were the best Mercedes' ever made. Only real complaint was that the 213 (at least pre-facelift) suspension was so incredibly hard, that it's the only reason why I didn't buy one.
The E-performance idea is definitely controversial, but with emissions regulations, I don't see where there were many other options. Nonetheless, yes, what they've created still appears to be in it's infancy at best. I'm not a fan, but at least they're pushing on the envelope.
On the separate post about BMW and Porsche - those buyers are a different breed. No matter how ugly the BMW, no matter how terrible the exhaust sounds, no matter how underpowered, no matter how bland the interior, and no matter how unreliable, there were still be tons of people who flock to buy the latest BMW performance vehicle. It's part of the successful branding they created in having the "ultimate driving machine". Mercedes doesn't have that kind of cult following; there is some on the AMG side, but not much, and definitely not to the BMW/M level. Similarly with Porsche, where their following has given Porsche the ability to sell very expensive cars (and yet if you read up on the 911, they change hands fairly often because the older guys who buy them end up seeing how uncomfortable they are). I actually find Porsche to be a different success story, just with how the 911 has come back, how the Cayenne saved the company, how they made smaller cars that were going to be laughed at (Cayman and Macan) into extreme successes, and how they came out with an exciting electric car like the Taycan. I give Porsche a lot of positive credit with their success.
The E-performance idea is definitely controversial, but with emissions regulations, I don't see where there were many other options. Nonetheless, yes, what they've created still appears to be in it's infancy at best. I'm not a fan, but at least they're pushing on the envelope.
On the separate post about BMW and Porsche - those buyers are a different breed. No matter how ugly the BMW, no matter how terrible the exhaust sounds, no matter how underpowered, no matter how bland the interior, and no matter how unreliable, there were still be tons of people who flock to buy the latest BMW performance vehicle. It's part of the successful branding they created in having the "ultimate driving machine". Mercedes doesn't have that kind of cult following; there is some on the AMG side, but not much, and definitely not to the BMW/M level. Similarly with Porsche, where their following has given Porsche the ability to sell very expensive cars (and yet if you read up on the 911, they change hands fairly often because the older guys who buy them end up seeing how uncomfortable they are). I actually find Porsche to be a different success story, just with how the 911 has come back, how the Cayenne saved the company, how they made smaller cars that were going to be laughed at (Cayman and Macan) into extreme successes, and how they came out with an exciting electric car like the Taycan. I give Porsche a lot of positive credit with their success.
The E63 W213 (to me the best car I owned thus far) and M5 F90 are insanely fast and good (probably the most complete all round packages under a M760Li and a S63/S65 AMG) but those cars at the time they arrived were not a novelty, we already had become used to the insane speed of the supersedans before them (the CLS, E 63 with the 5.5 and the M5/M6 with 4.4TT and RS6/RS7 with 4.0TT). Yeah surely the transmission improvement (MCT 7 vs MCT 9) and addition of AWD in the W213 and F90 (although we already the 4 Matic before), and the addition of stuff such as CarPlay, new self autonomous tech (although MB already had Distronic Plus which was pretty good), made for vast improvement over the out going cars, it wasn't a revolution like the jump from W211 6.2 or E60 V10 to those twin turbo monsters.
On the subject of BMW and Porsche, I disagree, at least in Brazil, the people who own Mercedes, they buy mostly Mercedes. Mercedes has a huge brand loyalty, far greater than BMW and Audi, mostly due to its heritage and history. The trouble is that the Brand has forgotten what it stands for. MB used to stand for a quality premium that it no longers commands.
BMW M is still getting tons of criticism but they have delivered on what they promised and they keep delivering on what the customer wants. We don't see BMW M going full radical killing their M cars with their prestigious engines (inline 6, V8s) to offer only hybrids and electric cars. BMW has had the brains to keep both electric, hybrid and gasoline powered options on their range. MB hasn't done that. They went full retard, limiting you to the choice they want. I think MB understand that it needs to pioneer, but they have gone for an option that is far too complicated and customers have rejected it. Instead of backing down, they said "f... it". I also understand the logic of the hybrid options, but if you see what is around on the market, and the current Euro Emissions rules, MB is the only one that went to such complications and has limited their product range thus far.
Porsche is a whole different thing. I have little experience with the brand, I really enjoy it, although I feel that is another brand that is losing its identity. The new crop of Electric only cars from Porsche seems to go completely against what they stand for.
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places (02-01-2024)
#62
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Not sure if they did something to the exhuast here, but sounds different form initial reviews. Maybe lack of OPF filter.
#63
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Hey all those who had said that AMG has lost its ways, looky at new M5: same configuration with a gas and electric engines combined and 1000 lb heavier than the last.
Must've lost its way too. Surely couldn't be a government fault !
Must've lost its way too. Surely couldn't be a government fault !
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Mayur999 (02-17-2024)
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2019 C63CS
This one is an interesting take on it. Seems like they may have ironed out some of the initial powertrain issues and it's starting to work together better. Although he seemed to be mostly driving it in Sport+/Race where the engine is always engaged instead of the hybrid mode where it comes and goes. I haven't watched his C43 review, but apparently he's not a fan and thinks this should have been the new C43. His most interesting comment to me was that it feels like a fast Audi and not an AMG. I haven't thought of it this way, but I think that's part of why it doesn't appeal to me. It even has to be driven like a fast Audi to avoid terminal understeer. That's a big reason for why I left Audi. I came from the 2013 Audi RS5 with the high revving V8 and was disappointed with the current V6 RS5, because it very much lacked everything I loved about the previous generation and didn't bring anything exciting to the table. Interesting point at the end as well that it's the wrong car for its time. That probably explains why nobody seems to buy it.
Last edited by superswiss; 02-17-2024 at 07:45 PM.
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#66
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No more MB:(
This one is an interesting take on it. Seems like they may have ironed out some of the initial powertrain issues and it's starting to work together better. Although he seemed to be mostly driving it in Sport+/Race where the engine is always engaged instead of the hybrid mode where it comes and goes. I haven't watched his C43 review, but apparently he's not a fan and thinks this should have been the new C43. His most interesting comment to me was that it feels like a fast Audi and not an AMG. I haven't thought of it this way, but I think that's part of why it doesn't appeal to me. It even has to be driven like a fast Audi to avoid terminal understeer. That's a big reason for why I left Audi. I came from the 2013 Audi RS5 with the high revving V8 and was disappointed with the current V6 RS5, because it very much lacked everything I loved about the previous generation and didn't bring anything exciting to the table. Interesting point at the end as well that it's the wrong car for its time. That probably explains why nobody seems to buy it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtOh7B0D0WY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtOh7B0D0WY
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Drone_S213 (02-18-2024)
#67
Are you comparing a car which is rumored to keep its famed engine with an additional electric engine, to a car which downsized from a V8 to a gutless 4 cyl ?
The weight issue is ridiculous, but then again it's rumours. Nonetheless, if you look at the bimmerpost forum, the owners of the F90 aren't too happy with this new G90.
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places (02-19-2024)
#68
This one is an interesting take on it. Seems like they may have ironed out some of the initial powertrain issues and it's starting to work together better. Although he seemed to be mostly driving it in Sport+/Race where the engine is always engaged instead of the hybrid mode where it comes and goes. I haven't watched his C43 review, but apparently he's not a fan and thinks this should have been the new C43. His most interesting comment to me was that it feels like a fast Audi and not an AMG. I haven't thought of it this way, but I think that's part of why it doesn't appeal to me. It even has to be driven like a fast Audi to avoid terminal understeer. That's a big reason for why I left Audi. I came from the 2013 Audi RS5 with the high revving V8 and was disappointed with the current V6 RS5, because it very much lacked everything I loved about the previous generation and didn't bring anything exciting to the table. Interesting point at the end as well that it's the wrong car for its time. That probably explains why nobody seems to buy it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtOh7B0D0WY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtOh7B0D0WY
The boot is a joke too.
Last edited by CarlosAMGBR; 02-19-2024 at 08:02 AM.
#70
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To those who are open to new realities (known MA / AMG bashers should skip)
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...formance-test/
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ath-explained/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...formance-test/
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ath-explained/
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#71
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2018 GT R; Tesla M3P
To those who are open to new realities (known MA / AMG bashers should skip)
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...formance-test/
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ath-explained/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...formance-test/
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ath-explained/
#72
To those who are open to new realities (known MA / AMG bashers should skip)
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...formance-test/
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ath-explained/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...formance-test/
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ath-explained/
#73
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The Car and Driver review is FAR FROM a good review. They struggled to say anything nice about the car and clearly stated they preferred the previous V8 model. So bashers, read on.
This car is a disaster.
This car is a disaster.
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