Mercedes-Benz C63 S AMG vs BMW M3 | evo DEADLY RIVALS
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 184
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C63
I partially agree with your statement.
I'd revise it slightly though. The C63 was never meant to beat the M3 on every track. There are going to be tracks where the C63 is faster.
The W204 C63 was 4 seconds faster than the E9X M3 around the 'ring. The W204 was also faster than the E9X around Hockenheim (the standard C63 also "tied" the E9X M3 CRT there).
What do Hockenheim and the 'ring have in common? They're "fast" tracks with ample straights and lightning quick sweepers (rather than short straights and technical hairpins).
I'd revise it slightly though. The C63 was never meant to beat the M3 on every track. There are going to be tracks where the C63 is faster.
The W204 C63 was 4 seconds faster than the E9X M3 around the 'ring. The W204 was also faster than the E9X around Hockenheim (the standard C63 also "tied" the E9X M3 CRT there).
What do Hockenheim and the 'ring have in common? They're "fast" tracks with ample straights and lightning quick sweepers (rather than short straights and technical hairpins).
Not to discredit the C63 as it will outperform the M3 on tracks with long straights (as you said). Both cars are amazing with pros and cons on any track.
And a small correction. The Hockenheim time was for the "short" track. Long track is another thing.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 324
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From: Chapel Hill, NC
2015 C63S E1; 2016 C450 AMG
Fixed it for you
I haven't once heard or has it ever popped in my head to cross-shop a C63/M3 with a Z28. Where as comparing the C63 to the M3 is like comparing jelly to jam, comparing the C63/M3 to the Z28 is like jelly to mustard. You know as much as I do that this notion is quite a reach. We here chose the C63 or the M3 because it's a jack of all trades car. Daily driver, track duty, weekend warrior, family hauler, garage queen, etc. You cannot put the Z28 in that category. Z28 is a track focused weapon with no A/C. Call me crazy but I like my A/C...
I haven't once heard or has it ever popped in my head to cross-shop a C63/M3 with a Z28. Where as comparing the C63 to the M3 is like comparing jelly to jam, comparing the C63/M3 to the Z28 is like jelly to mustard. You know as much as I do that this notion is quite a reach. We here chose the C63 or the M3 because it's a jack of all trades car. Daily driver, track duty, weekend warrior, family hauler, garage queen, etc. You cannot put the Z28 in that category. Z28 is a track focused weapon with no A/C. Call me crazy but I like my A/C...
A/C is indeed an option in the Z/28 but it is available and given GM's record, I suspect it is a lot more effective than the A/C in my M4 was. In addition, I believe that the rear seat in the Z is about as useful as the one in the M4. In fact overall, while the Z/28 may be less luxurious, at least according to several reviews and long term tests, it is perfectly practical as a daily driver. And it has an excellent manual transmission. Thus, again, my point is simple. If all the folks on the BMW board are really serious that track performance is the most important thing for them and the M4 answers their needs, then the Z/28 should answer those needs even better as it is a daily driver with room for 4 people, a decent sized trunk and amazing track performance that blows the M4 away.
However, none of those people bought the Z/28. Thus, perhaps track performance was not quite as important as they initially claimed when proclaiming the M completely superior to the C63. That was and remains my point, I just found a rather stark method of illustrating it ;-)
Ultimately, I have lots of respect for the M3/4. It just didn't meet my needs as well as the C63 as I felt I was sacrificing too much comfort for a very small increment in track performance.
Please enjoy your jelly, jam, and mustard.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 73
C204 C250-CDI
Fixed it for you
Again, that is what suits you. For every person who share the same views as you, there are just as many others that rather buy the M because of such capabilities on the track and no compromise will do. I've attended driving schools and HPDE but nothing gives you that feeling of controlled racing in your own car. To them, it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
I do agree that the interior of the new C63 is quite a nice place to be. The M3 is no slouch in that department, but there is a touch of elegance to the décor in the C63. If interiors were clothing, the C63 would be a tuxedo and the M3 would be a suit. Although I can't speak for the AC, my friend's M4 blows ice cold. Although my last E92 M3 did not blow as cold. I drive with stability control off. I haven't driven the new C63 yet but if this vid is any indication, it should handle the limits quite nicely but that is what was missing in the W204 C63 that I had. The E92 M3 was such more balanced and predictable. The M3/M4 carries that tradition once again so I'm eager to test out the new C63-S and see what "feel" I get under my *** in comparison. I'm no Lewis Hamilton or Nico Rosberg. Not even close lol but I'm no average driver and have plenty of track time.
I haven't once heard or has it ever popped in my head to cross-shop a C63/M3 with a Z28. Where as comparing the C63 to the M3 is like comparing jelly to jam, comparing the C63/M3 to the Z28 is like jelly to mustard. You know as much as I do that this notion is quite a reach. We here chose the C63 or the M3 because it's a jack of all trades car. Daily driver, track duty, weekend warrior, family hauler, garage queen, etc. You cannot put the Z28 in that category. Z28 is a track focused weapon with no A/C. Call me crazy but I like my A/C...
There is no wrong or right answer as to why somebody chooses the C63 over the M3 or vice versa. For you, it's because your main focus was comfort as evident by your long trips and your taste for a stepped-up interior. For me, I have an M4 on order because it was that "feel" and balance at the limit in my E92 M3 that I did not want to give up over the creature comforts of the new C63. Plus, I must have a 6-speed manual and 3-pedals so my choice was also made by what the C63-S couldn't offer me (and many, many others). The C63 is just as fast as the M3 around a track. Maybe not equally fast or faster but in the same regard. The M3 is just as fast as the C63 in a straight. Maybe not equally fast or faster but in the same regard.
Where as I believe the M3/M4 is still #1, I'll concede and put the C63-S as #1-B because if the reviews by you guys are that good, I can't help but be a believer before I drive it. I'll reserve my judgment when I get to flog it soon but for now, people who argue that the M3/M4 is better or worse than the C63 are probably people who regurgitate stats they read online (or biased towards "their" brand) as their basis of argument rather than actual seat time behind the wheel.
It's a great time to be a car enthusiast. Especially in this segment. The C63-S, M3/M4, RC-F and the newly ATS-V make it one crowded bunch. Add a new RS5 and perhaps Jaguar's planned XE-R, and this is looking to be a royal rumble. Didn't have my morning coffee yet so if none of this makes sense, forgive me!
Again, that is what suits you. For every person who share the same views as you, there are just as many others that rather buy the M because of such capabilities on the track and no compromise will do. I've attended driving schools and HPDE but nothing gives you that feeling of controlled racing in your own car. To them, it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
I do agree that the interior of the new C63 is quite a nice place to be. The M3 is no slouch in that department, but there is a touch of elegance to the décor in the C63. If interiors were clothing, the C63 would be a tuxedo and the M3 would be a suit. Although I can't speak for the AC, my friend's M4 blows ice cold. Although my last E92 M3 did not blow as cold. I drive with stability control off. I haven't driven the new C63 yet but if this vid is any indication, it should handle the limits quite nicely but that is what was missing in the W204 C63 that I had. The E92 M3 was such more balanced and predictable. The M3/M4 carries that tradition once again so I'm eager to test out the new C63-S and see what "feel" I get under my *** in comparison. I'm no Lewis Hamilton or Nico Rosberg. Not even close lol but I'm no average driver and have plenty of track time.
I haven't once heard or has it ever popped in my head to cross-shop a C63/M3 with a Z28. Where as comparing the C63 to the M3 is like comparing jelly to jam, comparing the C63/M3 to the Z28 is like jelly to mustard. You know as much as I do that this notion is quite a reach. We here chose the C63 or the M3 because it's a jack of all trades car. Daily driver, track duty, weekend warrior, family hauler, garage queen, etc. You cannot put the Z28 in that category. Z28 is a track focused weapon with no A/C. Call me crazy but I like my A/C...
There is no wrong or right answer as to why somebody chooses the C63 over the M3 or vice versa. For you, it's because your main focus was comfort as evident by your long trips and your taste for a stepped-up interior. For me, I have an M4 on order because it was that "feel" and balance at the limit in my E92 M3 that I did not want to give up over the creature comforts of the new C63. Plus, I must have a 6-speed manual and 3-pedals so my choice was also made by what the C63-S couldn't offer me (and many, many others). The C63 is just as fast as the M3 around a track. Maybe not equally fast or faster but in the same regard. The M3 is just as fast as the C63 in a straight. Maybe not equally fast or faster but in the same regard.
Where as I believe the M3/M4 is still #1, I'll concede and put the C63-S as #1-B because if the reviews by you guys are that good, I can't help but be a believer before I drive it. I'll reserve my judgment when I get to flog it soon but for now, people who argue that the M3/M4 is better or worse than the C63 are probably people who regurgitate stats they read online (or biased towards "their" brand) as their basis of argument rather than actual seat time behind the wheel.
It's a great time to be a car enthusiast. Especially in this segment. The C63-S, M3/M4, RC-F and the newly ATS-V make it one crowded bunch. Add a new RS5 and perhaps Jaguar's planned XE-R, and this is looking to be a royal rumble. Didn't have my morning coffee yet so if none of this makes sense, forgive me!
No need for your morning coffee to improve on the above !
That IMHO is one the most honest, clear, sensible and again IMHO totally objective write ups I've read in a long time when it comes to these types of threads, we need more of these and less of the BS subjective nonsense that's unfortunately all over car forums these days
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
MB / BMW
No need for your morning coffee to improve on the above !
That IMHO is one the most honest, clear, sensible and again IMHO totally objective write ups I've read in a long time when it comes to these types of threads, we need more of these and less of the BS subjective nonsense that's unfortunately all over car forums these days
That IMHO is one the most honest, clear, sensible and again IMHO totally objective write ups I've read in a long time when it comes to these types of threads, we need more of these and less of the BS subjective nonsense that's unfortunately all over car forums these days
Junior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
011 gtr
Fixed it for you
Again, that is what suits you. For every person who share the same views as you, there are just as many others that rather buy the M because of such capabilities on the track and no compromise will do. I've attended driving schools and HPDE but nothing gives you that feeling of controlled racing in your own car. To them, it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
I do agree that the interior of the new C63 is quite a nice place to be. The M3 is no slouch in that department, but there is a touch of elegance to the décor in the C63. If interiors were clothing, the C63 would be a tuxedo and the M3 would be a suit. Although I can't speak for the AC, my friend's M4 blows ice cold. Although my last E92 M3 did not blow as cold. I drive with stability control off. I haven't driven the new C63 yet but if this vid is any indication, it should handle the limits quite nicely but that is what was missing in the W204 C63 that I had. The E92 M3 was such more balanced and predictable. The M3/M4 carries that tradition once again so I'm eager to test out the new C63-S and see what "feel" I get under my *** in comparison. I'm no Lewis Hamilton or Nico Rosberg. Not even close lol but I'm no average driver and have plenty of track time.
I haven't once heard or has it ever popped in my head to cross-shop a C63/M3 with a Z28. Where as comparing the C63 to the M3 is like comparing jelly to jam, comparing the C63/M3 to the Z28 is like jelly to mustard. You know as much as I do that this notion is quite a reach. We here chose the C63 or the M3 because it's a jack of all trades car. Daily driver, track duty, weekend warrior, family hauler, garage queen, etc. You cannot put the Z28 in that category. Z28 is a track focused weapon with no A/C. Call me crazy but I like my A/C...
There is no wrong or right answer as to why somebody chooses the C63 over the M3 or vice versa. For you, it's because your main focus was comfort as evident by your long trips and your taste for a stepped-up interior. For me, I have an M4 on order because it was that "feel" and balance at the limit in my E92 M3 that I did not want to give up over the creature comforts of the new C63. Plus, I must have a 6-speed manual and 3-pedals so my choice was also made by what the C63-S couldn't offer me (and many, many other people). The C63 is just as fast as the M3 around a track. Maybe not equally fast or faster but in the same regard. The M3 is just as fast as the C63 in a straight. Maybe not equally fast or faster but in the same regard. Both will often come down to the driver's skill rather than the car's specs.
Where as I believe the M3/M4 is still #1, I'll concede and put the C63-S as #1-B because if the reviews by you guys are that good, I can't help but be a believer before I drive it. I'll reserve my judgment when I get to flog it soon but for now, people who argue that the M3/M4 is better or worse than the C63 are probably people who regurgitate stats they read online (or biased towards "their" favorite brand) as their basis of argument rather than actual seat time behind the wheel.
It's a great time to be a car enthusiast. Especially in this segment. The C63-S, M3/M4, RC-F and the newly ATS-V make it one crowded bunch. Add a new RS5 and perhaps Jaguar's planned XE-R, and this is looking to be a royal rumble. Didn't have my morning coffee yet so if none of this makes sense, forgive me!
Again, that is what suits you. For every person who share the same views as you, there are just as many others that rather buy the M because of such capabilities on the track and no compromise will do. I've attended driving schools and HPDE but nothing gives you that feeling of controlled racing in your own car. To them, it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
I do agree that the interior of the new C63 is quite a nice place to be. The M3 is no slouch in that department, but there is a touch of elegance to the décor in the C63. If interiors were clothing, the C63 would be a tuxedo and the M3 would be a suit. Although I can't speak for the AC, my friend's M4 blows ice cold. Although my last E92 M3 did not blow as cold. I drive with stability control off. I haven't driven the new C63 yet but if this vid is any indication, it should handle the limits quite nicely but that is what was missing in the W204 C63 that I had. The E92 M3 was such more balanced and predictable. The M3/M4 carries that tradition once again so I'm eager to test out the new C63-S and see what "feel" I get under my *** in comparison. I'm no Lewis Hamilton or Nico Rosberg. Not even close lol but I'm no average driver and have plenty of track time.
I haven't once heard or has it ever popped in my head to cross-shop a C63/M3 with a Z28. Where as comparing the C63 to the M3 is like comparing jelly to jam, comparing the C63/M3 to the Z28 is like jelly to mustard. You know as much as I do that this notion is quite a reach. We here chose the C63 or the M3 because it's a jack of all trades car. Daily driver, track duty, weekend warrior, family hauler, garage queen, etc. You cannot put the Z28 in that category. Z28 is a track focused weapon with no A/C. Call me crazy but I like my A/C...
There is no wrong or right answer as to why somebody chooses the C63 over the M3 or vice versa. For you, it's because your main focus was comfort as evident by your long trips and your taste for a stepped-up interior. For me, I have an M4 on order because it was that "feel" and balance at the limit in my E92 M3 that I did not want to give up over the creature comforts of the new C63. Plus, I must have a 6-speed manual and 3-pedals so my choice was also made by what the C63-S couldn't offer me (and many, many other people). The C63 is just as fast as the M3 around a track. Maybe not equally fast or faster but in the same regard. The M3 is just as fast as the C63 in a straight. Maybe not equally fast or faster but in the same regard. Both will often come down to the driver's skill rather than the car's specs.
Where as I believe the M3/M4 is still #1, I'll concede and put the C63-S as #1-B because if the reviews by you guys are that good, I can't help but be a believer before I drive it. I'll reserve my judgment when I get to flog it soon but for now, people who argue that the M3/M4 is better or worse than the C63 are probably people who regurgitate stats they read online (or biased towards "their" favorite brand) as their basis of argument rather than actual seat time behind the wheel.
It's a great time to be a car enthusiast. Especially in this segment. The C63-S, M3/M4, RC-F and the newly ATS-V make it one crowded bunch. Add a new RS5 and perhaps Jaguar's planned XE-R, and this is looking to be a royal rumble. Didn't have my morning coffee yet so if none of this makes sense, forgive me!
A/C is indeed an option in the Z/28 but it is available and given GM's record, I suspect it is a lot more effective than the A/C in my M4 was. In addition, I believe that the rear seat in the Z is about as useful as the one in the M4. In fact overall, while the Z/28 may be less luxurious, at least according to several reviews and long term tests, it is perfectly practical as a daily driver. And it has an excellent manual transmission. Thus, again, my point is simple. If all the folks on the BMW board are really serious that track performance is the most important thing for them and the M4 answers their needs, then the Z/28 should answer those needs even better as it is a daily driver with room for 4 people, a decent sized trunk and amazing track performance that blows the M4 away.
However, none of those people bought the Z/28. Thus, perhaps track performance was not quite as important as they initially claimed when proclaiming the M completely superior to the C63. That was and remains my point, I just found a rather stark method of illustrating it ;-)
Ultimately, I have lots of respect for the M3/4. It just didn't meet my needs as well as the C63 as I felt I was sacrificing too much comfort for a very small increment in track performance.
Please enjoy your jelly, jam, and mustard.
However, none of those people bought the Z/28. Thus, perhaps track performance was not quite as important as they initially claimed when proclaiming the M completely superior to the C63. That was and remains my point, I just found a rather stark method of illustrating it ;-)
Ultimately, I have lots of respect for the M3/4. It just didn't meet my needs as well as the C63 as I felt I was sacrificing too much comfort for a very small increment in track performance.
Please enjoy your jelly, jam, and mustard.
No need for your morning coffee to improve on the above !
That IMHO is one the most honest, clear, sensible and again IMHO totally objective write ups I've read in a long time when it comes to these types of threads, we need more of these and less of the BS subjective nonsense that's unfortunately all over car forums these days
That IMHO is one the most honest, clear, sensible and again IMHO totally objective write ups I've read in a long time when it comes to these types of threads, we need more of these and less of the BS subjective nonsense that's unfortunately all over car forums these days
FWIW I drove a f80 when they were released and I bought my c63s before even driving it. I was in the same position as you before I got my amg and I didn't feel like I knew enough to make any conclusions. lol. And no, you cannot get close to an idea with what the reviews say. Its like like trying to explain effects of a drug before you've tried them.
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22
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GT3 Supercup
.7 sec Hmmmm. That's pretty big for racing, but for most folks, their c63 may never see a track. So probably not significant to them. For them, stating a higher HP number to their friends is more important. It would be interesting to know if the Merc had a sun roof.
Driver error, yes, but you always need to factor that in. If Dan has a hard time, most folks would have similar struggles. Repeatable and consistent times are key.
It is no surprise, the Merc is using power to compensate for the weight. I think it did a fantastic job. Much better than I was expecting. But it does go to show that the S is the true M competitor not the base model.
--- Merc US, please just drop the base model and stop trying to use it as an up-sell tool. Aussies figured that out already... And priced less than the 507 (I think)
Driver error, yes, but you always need to factor that in. If Dan has a hard time, most folks would have similar struggles. Repeatable and consistent times are key.
It is no surprise, the Merc is using power to compensate for the weight. I think it did a fantastic job. Much better than I was expecting. But it does go to show that the S is the true M competitor not the base model.
--- Merc US, please just drop the base model and stop trying to use it as an up-sell tool. Aussies figured that out already... And priced less than the 507 (I think)
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2014
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From: Loma Linda, CA
2014 CLA 45AMG , 2015 C63 (W205)
.7 sec Hmmmm. That's pretty big for racing, but for most folks, their c63 may never see a track. So probably not significant to them. For them, stating a higher HP number to their friends is more important. It would be interesting to know if the Merc had a sun roof.
Driver error, yes, but you always need to factor that in. If Dan has a hard time, most folks would have similar struggles. Repeatable and consistent times are key.
It is no surprise, the Merc is using power to compensate for the weight. I think it did a fantastic job. Much better than I was expecting. But it does go to show that the S is the true M competitor not the base model.
--- Merc US, please just drop the base model and stop trying to use it as an up-sell tool. Aussies figured that out already... And priced less than the 507 (I think)
Driver error, yes, but you always need to factor that in. If Dan has a hard time, most folks would have similar struggles. Repeatable and consistent times are key.
It is no surprise, the Merc is using power to compensate for the weight. I think it did a fantastic job. Much better than I was expecting. But it does go to show that the S is the true M competitor not the base model.
--- Merc US, please just drop the base model and stop trying to use it as an up-sell tool. Aussies figured that out already... And priced less than the 507 (I think)
It does have the pano roof. A pano roof car weighed 4055. My car without pano weighed 3865. Huge Difference.
