C63s coupe intake design flaw?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,583
Likes: 212
From: Washington D.C.
2024 GLE63s / 2016 GLE63s (traded) / 2016 E63s / 2002 E55
MBUSA was his insurance company?
Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 153
Likes: 5
C63S AMG Coupe
My thought when I saw it was not "he's a dunce for trying to drive through a lake," but for the grace of God go I. My conclusion from this thread is that I need to be more vigilant and conscientious about driving in the rain here in Texas with this car. Since losing my Audi, gone is the feeling of being bullet proof. Despite all of its positive qualities, I am now the owner of the vehicle equivalent of a Prima Donna.
Last edited by DRGG; Sep 12, 2018 at 12:26 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 308
Likes: 95
2024 X5 M60i, 2018 C63S Coupe (sold)
The real issue, here, stems from the fact that this particular incident has been magnified so much by YouTube. The original owner made an update video as recent as 4 months ago, long after the event, and other YouTubers have made videos about it as well.
Cars get hydro-locked all the time. The difference is most cars don't have their own YouTube channel.
Cars get hydro-locked all the time. The difference is most cars don't have their own YouTube channel.
Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 153
Likes: 5
C63S AMG Coupe
The real issue, here, stems from the fact that this particular incident has been magnified so much by YouTube. The original owner made an update video as recent as 4 months ago, long after the event, and other YouTubers have made videos about it as well.
Cars get hydro-locked all the time. The difference is most cars don't have their own YouTube channel.
Cars get hydro-locked all the time. The difference is most cars don't have their own YouTube channel.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 4,761
Likes: 566
From: Milwaukee, WI
2010 C300 4MATIC........ 2011 C63 AMG.............. 2015 CLS400 4MATIC.....
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 643
Likes: 92
From: Houston, TX
'15 C63S
I’m originally from the north east (New York and Boston) and the wet weather conditions are much worse than in Austin. Big rain storms, snow, ice, etc. In my 30+ years of living on the East Coast, I never once drove down a flooded road or had issues with hydro locked engines. Even on highly modified cars I had with large, exposed, open air intakes.
Like you said, this is a car not a boat. Even if the water gets splashed into the intake flap, that water would have to travel 1.5 feet to reach the filter, completely saturate it/soak through it, and ingest enough water to lock up the engine. The chances of that happening from one splash is slim to none. This is why it's not a widespread issue - no one else has experienced this scenario with their W205 C63 to my knowledge. Has anyone put their car through an automated car wash where the engine is running? If it was that easy, you'd be hearing more stories of W205 C63 hydrolocking when pressurized water is sprayed on the front end. You need a fairly large amount of water to reach and pass through the filter, and that generally only happens when it's submerged under water (all it takes is 1 second in a deep puddle and you'll do it).
I don't think there is a flaw with the intake either. I just think this YouTuber didn't take appropriate precautions when driving in a flooded area he was well aware of. He monetized the videos and made them clickbait. His alarmist video is why this thread was started. Yet, there's not a single instance of this happening to anyone else with the W205 C63.
So no, there is no intake design flaw. There was, however, a major driver flaw.
Not trying to argue or lecture or anything like that. Just trying to help out a newcomer. I've seen way too many people new to this part of the country not take this seriously that end up getting flooded.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,537
Likes: 372
From: Austin, TX
2017 Porsche 911 C4
The Northeast doesn't get supercell-type rainfall like we get here and throughout the central part of the country. You can very easily end up in a driving situation where within minutes a street is impassable. It's the same type of storms/fronts that cause all the EF4 and EF5 tornadoes that take out entire towns. The sky can be clear with nothing significant on the radar, and within minutes there could be flooding. You are in Austin, so you well eventually for sure run into a situation like this. I've personally been on Lamar when it's clear outside, driven up near the Hyde Park area, ran a few quick errands, and had to find a different route home because Lamar was under a few feet of water a half hour or so later. It happens, and eventually it will happen to you.
Not trying to argue or lecture or anything like that. Just trying to help out a newcomer. I've seen way too many people new to this part of the country not take this seriously that end up getting flooded.
Not trying to argue or lecture or anything like that. Just trying to help out a newcomer. I've seen way too many people new to this part of the country not take this seriously that end up getting flooded.
Let’s not ignore the fact that this guy lives in Pittsburg which is still considered the north east.
I mentioned this before, but better judgement would have avoided this from happening. The NE may not get the sudden downpours like central Texas, but the storms are large enough to flood and create extremely dangerous driving conditions. This guy shouldn’t have been driving in those conditions under any circumstances. Pull over and wait it out, or don’t drive in the first place.
Sensationalizing and amplifying this as a “flaw” is purely for clicks and generating revenue. That’s what annoys me the most, because we have threads like these where people start questioning whether they can drive their cars in the rain at all.
Last edited by AlexZTuned; Sep 13, 2018 at 09:00 AM.
Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 153
Likes: 5
C63S AMG Coupe
I appreciate the insight. I get that weather in Central Texas can get bad, but don’t disregard the hurricanes and storms that hit the Northeast. Remember Hurricane Sandy? The Atlantic gets some pretty awful storms.
Let’s not ignore the fact that this guy lives in Pittsburg which is still considered the north east.
I mentioned this before, but better judgement would have avoided this from happening. The NE may not get the sudden downpours like central Texas, but the storms are large enough to flood and create extremely dangerous driving conditions. This guy shouldn’t have been driving in those conditions under any circumstances. Pull over and wait it out, or don’t drive in the first place.
Sensationalizing and amplifying this as a “flaw” is purely for clicks and generating revenue. That’s what annoys me the most, because we have threads like these where people start questioning whether they can drive their cars in the rain at all.
I asked my service advisor what would happen if I was driving down the highway at speed and hit standing water, and he said it could hydrolock again -- it seems many "performance cars" have low air intakes that contribute to this problem. This is an expensive, well-built (for the most part!) car, but it's no Ferrari or Maserati, and I wouldn't expect it to be designed in such a way as to prevent it being driven under what most would consider normal driving conditions.
Thanks very much for the response. One more piece of information -- the owner's manual states: "Drive through water on the road only if it is not deeper than 1 ft/30 cm (emphasis mine), and then only at walking speed at the most. Otherwise, the vehicle's engine, the electrical systems and the transmission may be damaged." I have pictures of the water, and it was not a foot deep; and, as I stated, I was driving very slowly. At any rate, I'm turning the info over to my insurance company so they can pursue it if they wish to.
Thanks very much for the response. One more piece of information -- the owner's manual states: "Drive through water on the road only if it is not deeper than 1 ft/30 cm (emphasis mine), and then only at walking speed at the most. Otherwise, the vehicle's engine, the electrical systems and the transmission may be damaged." I have pictures of the water, and it was not a foot deep; and, as I stated, I was driving very slowly. At any rate, I'm turning the info over to my insurance company so they can pursue it if they wish to.
I have the same exact vehicle and had the same situation happen to me. The engine just slowly went down to zero RPM and would not start up; no odd noises just a smooth shutdown/death. A nearby shop pulled the intake manifold and valve cover and there was quite a bit of water in one cylinder. A large jeep or truck was passing me at speed and created a small tidal wave which caused the engine to die. The water depth could not have been very deep since it wasn't even up to the bottom of the car. Getting this run through my insurance company has been a complete PITA. BMW says only new parts and the insurance only wants to pay for a used engine. Needless to say it's shaping up to be a big problem. I have not mentioned the owner's manual statement (which you referenced) about depth of water but maybe that will speed things along if I do.
The design flaw seems to be the fact that the engine is turbocharged. Other cars were driving through the same water with no issues but none were turbocharged. As Floyd mentioned earlier, the intake (from working on older BMW's) should be far up in the engine bay. But with the turbo's there appears to be a lower intake or an additional one that happens to be lower. Although the owner's manual verbiage about depth of water is probably a point of blame in this situation.
The design flaw seems to be the fact that the engine is turbocharged. Other cars were driving through the same water with no issues but none were turbocharged. As Floyd mentioned earlier, the intake (from working on older BMW's) should be far up in the engine bay. But with the turbo's there appears to be a lower intake or an additional one that happens to be lower. Although the owner's manual verbiage about depth of water is probably a point of blame in this situation.
Last edited by DRGG; Sep 13, 2018 at 12:46 PM.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,583
Likes: 212
From: Washington D.C.
2024 GLE63s / 2016 GLE63s (traded) / 2016 E63s / 2002 E55
For the members stating it was his fault and he should be responsible - who among you would suck it up and fork over $71k to get your engine replaced? Yeah it's his fault but it was accidental and that's what insurance is for.
Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 153
Likes: 5
C63S AMG Coupe
I finally got curious enough to pop the hood and actually examine the air scoops, which are on either side of the hood latch. There is some kind of vent in the center that has spring-loaded flaps, I presume to cool the engine bay at at certain speed. But otherwise the air scoops don't have any flaps, spring-loaded or otherwise. Then the air duct takes a slight downward bend before it connects to the air filter on either side of the engine, and then into the turbochargers (via the filters). So, the scoops aren't really situated very low at all, and they are not really exposed and you cannot even see them if you look through the grill. Unless one has the hood open, I can't even understand how one can get water in them by washing the car. So, my vote is that there is not a design flaw. What I do think happens is that the turbos act like pumps or vacuum cleaners and suck the water right into the engine. I think if I was to re-design this, I would put some kind of a trap in there to catch water, with a drain at the bottom....but what do I know.
Last edited by DRGG; Sep 13, 2018 at 08:07 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 849
Likes: 111
From: NYC
18 E63S
I finally got curious enough to pop the hood and actually examine the air scoops, which are on either side of the hood latch. There is some kind of vent in the center that has spring-loaded flaps, I presume to cool the engine bay at at certain speed. But otherwise the air scoops don't have any flaps, spring-loaded or otherwise. Then the air duct takes a slight downward bend before it connects to the air filter on either side of the engine, and then into the turbochargers (via the filters). So, the scoops aren't really situated very low at all, and they are not really exposed and you cannot even see them if you look through the grill. Unless one has the hood open, I can't even understand how one can get water in them by washing the car. So, my vote is that there is not a design flaw. What I do think happens is that the turbos act like pumps or vacuum cleaners and suck the water right into the engine. I think if I was to re-design this, I would put some kind of a trap in there to catch water, with a drain at the bottom....but what do I know.
Stock intake system on the Subaru STI You see on right the container that sits in fender wheel well area . Design to take in excess water and reduce intake noise. This what my old STI had .
Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 153
Likes: 5
C63S AMG Coupe
"There is no such thing as a new idea. It is impossible. We simply take a lot of old ideas and put them into a sort of mental kaleidoscope..."
