C63/C63S AMG
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

C63s coupe intake design flaw?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Rate Thread
 
Old 09-12-2018 | 11:45 AM
  #51  
E55 KEV's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
Veteran: Air Force
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,531
Likes: 198
From: Washington D.C.
2016 GLE63s / 2016 E63s / 2002 E55
Originally Posted by Adi-Benz
If you look into it this YouTuber BS'd MBUSA for another car. He screwed the car up himself. You won't hydrolock your car unless there is a lot of flooding, but you also have to use your better judgement. As with everything, warranty doesn't cover stupidity.
MBUSA was his insurance company?
Old 09-12-2018 | 12:20 PM
  #52  
DRGG's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 153
Likes: 5
C63S AMG Coupe
Originally Posted by Adi-Benz
If you look into it this YouTuber BS'd MBUSA for another car. He screwed the car up himself. You won't hydrolock your car unless there is a lot of flooding, but you also have to use your better judgement. As with everything, warranty doesn't cover stupidity.
My recollection was that he exited the tollway and as another car was passing him he could not escape the ponding water in front of him. With limited options, I don't see that he could have done much to prevent it except to pull off the road and ride it out. If you live in Texas you will encounter a similar experience sooner rather than later where you are on a road with which you are unfamiliar. I actually witnessed a super-cell thunderstorm spin up out of a clear sky and drop a tornado all within the time it took to sit down, order, and finish a meal at a roadside restaurant. Even in my community with modern roads and drainage, when it rains here you almost cannot drive in the far right lane because the water cannot drain off the roadway fast enough. If another vehicle is blocking you, your choices are to plow through it or come to a dead stop.

My thought when I saw it was not "he's a dunce for trying to drive through a lake," but for the grace of God go I. My conclusion from this thread is that I need to be more vigilant and conscientious about driving in the rain here in Texas with this car. Since losing my Audi, gone is the feeling of being bullet proof. Despite all of its positive qualities, I am now the owner of the vehicle equivalent of a Prima Donna.

Last edited by DRGG; 09-12-2018 at 12:26 PM.
Old 09-12-2018 | 01:35 PM
  #53  
GordonGEICO's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 308
Likes: 94
2024 X5 M60i, 2018 C63S Coupe (sold)
The real issue, here, stems from the fact that this particular incident has been magnified so much by YouTube. The original owner made an update video as recent as 4 months ago, long after the event, and other YouTubers have made videos about it as well.

Cars get hydro-locked all the time. The difference is most cars don't have their own YouTube channel.
Old 09-12-2018 | 02:01 PM
  #54  
DRGG's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 153
Likes: 5
C63S AMG Coupe
Originally Posted by GordonGEICO
The real issue, here, stems from the fact that this particular incident has been magnified so much by YouTube. The original owner made an update video as recent as 4 months ago, long after the event, and other YouTubers have made videos about it as well.

Cars get hydro-locked all the time. The difference is most cars don't have their own YouTube channel.
You do make a good point, except there is also this forum and someone added another data point and I have no idea how many of these models are on the road. It's a stretch to conclude anything about a design flaw, but I think being made aware of this possibility could be useful knowledge, especially here in Texas. In my 5 decades of auto ownership, it's not anything I ever gave a second thought, especially with a tank like MB. I figured I would have practically have to submerge the front end of my car for this to happen.
Old 09-12-2018 | 02:10 PM
  #55  
Adi-Benz's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 4,706
Likes: 549
From: Milwaukee, WI
2010 C300 4MATIC........ 2011 C63 AMG.............. 2015 CLS400 4MATIC.....
Originally Posted by E55 KEV
MBUSA was his insurance company?
No but he got compensated or something. It was a while ago, haven't seen it brought up since this thread.
Old 09-12-2018 | 05:49 PM
  #56  
msd3075's Avatar
Super Member
 
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 641
Likes: 92
From: Houston, TX
'15 C63S
Originally Posted by AlexZTuned


I’m originally from the north east (New York and Boston) and the wet weather conditions are much worse than in Austin. Big rain storms, snow, ice, etc. In my 30+ years of living on the East Coast, I never once drove down a flooded road or had issues with hydro locked engines. Even on highly modified cars I had with large, exposed, open air intakes.

Like you said, this is a car not a boat. Even if the water gets splashed into the intake flap, that water would have to travel 1.5 feet to reach the filter, completely saturate it/soak through it, and ingest enough water to lock up the engine. The chances of that happening from one splash is slim to none. This is why it's not a widespread issue - no one else has experienced this scenario with their W205 C63 to my knowledge. Has anyone put their car through an automated car wash where the engine is running? If it was that easy, you'd be hearing more stories of W205 C63 hydrolocking when pressurized water is sprayed on the front end. You need a fairly large amount of water to reach and pass through the filter, and that generally only happens when it's submerged under water (all it takes is 1 second in a deep puddle and you'll do it).

I don't think there is a flaw with the intake either. I just think this YouTuber didn't take appropriate precautions when driving in a flooded area he was well aware of. He monetized the videos and made them clickbait. His alarmist video is why this thread was started. Yet, there's not a single instance of this happening to anyone else with the W205 C63.

So no, there is no intake design flaw. There was, however, a major driver flaw.
The Northeast doesn't get supercell-type rainfall like we get here and throughout the central part of the country. You can very easily end up in a driving situation where within minutes a street is impassable. It's the same type of storms/fronts that cause all the EF4 and EF5 tornadoes that take out entire towns. The sky can be clear with nothing significant on the radar, and within minutes there could be flooding. You are in Austin, so you well eventually for sure run into a situation like this. I've personally been on Lamar when it's clear outside, driven up near the Hyde Park area, ran a few quick errands, and had to find a different route home because Lamar was under a few feet of water a half hour or so later. It happens, and eventually it will happen to you.

Not trying to argue or lecture or anything like that. Just trying to help out a newcomer. I've seen way too many people new to this part of the country not take this seriously that end up getting flooded.
Old 09-13-2018 | 08:57 AM
  #57  
AlexZTuned's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,537
Likes: 370
From: Austin, TX
2017 Porsche 911 C4
Originally Posted by msd3075
The Northeast doesn't get supercell-type rainfall like we get here and throughout the central part of the country. You can very easily end up in a driving situation where within minutes a street is impassable. It's the same type of storms/fronts that cause all the EF4 and EF5 tornadoes that take out entire towns. The sky can be clear with nothing significant on the radar, and within minutes there could be flooding. You are in Austin, so you well eventually for sure run into a situation like this. I've personally been on Lamar when it's clear outside, driven up near the Hyde Park area, ran a few quick errands, and had to find a different route home because Lamar was under a few feet of water a half hour or so later. It happens, and eventually it will happen to you.

Not trying to argue or lecture or anything like that. Just trying to help out a newcomer. I've seen way too many people new to this part of the country not take this seriously that end up getting flooded.
I appreciate the insight. I get that weather in Central Texas can get bad, but don’t disregard the hurricanes and storms that hit the Northeast. Remember Hurricane Sandy? The Atlantic gets some pretty awful storms.

Let’s not ignore the fact that this guy lives in Pittsburg which is still considered the north east.

I mentioned this before, but better judgement would have avoided this from happening. The NE may not get the sudden downpours like central Texas, but the storms are large enough to flood and create extremely dangerous driving conditions. This guy shouldn’t have been driving in those conditions under any circumstances. Pull over and wait it out, or don’t drive in the first place.

Sensationalizing and amplifying this as a “flaw” is purely for clicks and generating revenue. That’s what annoys me the most, because we have threads like these where people start questioning whether they can drive their cars in the rain at all.

Last edited by AlexZTuned; 09-13-2018 at 09:00 AM.
Old 09-13-2018 | 12:39 PM
  #58  
DRGG's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 153
Likes: 5
C63S AMG Coupe
Originally Posted by AlexZTuned


I appreciate the insight. I get that weather in Central Texas can get bad, but don’t disregard the hurricanes and storms that hit the Northeast. Remember Hurricane Sandy? The Atlantic gets some pretty awful storms.

Let’s not ignore the fact that this guy lives in Pittsburg which is still considered the north east.

I mentioned this before, but better judgement would have avoided this from happening. The NE may not get the sudden downpours like central Texas, but the storms are large enough to flood and create extremely dangerous driving conditions. This guy shouldn’t have been driving in those conditions under any circumstances. Pull over and wait it out, or don’t drive in the first place.

Sensationalizing and amplifying this as a “flaw” is purely for clicks and generating revenue. That’s what annoys me the most, because we have threads like these where people start questioning whether they can drive their cars in the rain at all.


Did he sensationalize this or just document it? I say he just documented it. The title of this thread suggests a design flaw. In the same vein, I found this: http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/131...-quot-of-water, where the BMW owner says she saw several other cars navigate the same "puddle" without a problem. Perhaps she hit on something when she said:

I asked my service advisor what would happen if I was driving down the highway at speed and hit standing water, and he said it could hydrolock again -- it seems many "performance cars" have low air intakes that contribute to this problem. This is an expensive, well-built (for the most part!) car, but it's no Ferrari or Maserati, and I wouldn't expect it to be designed in such a way as to prevent it being driven under what most would consider normal driving conditions.

Thanks very much for the response. One more piece of information -- the owner's manual states: "Drive through water on the road only if it is not deeper than 1 ft/30 cm (emphasis mine), and then only at walking speed at the most. Otherwise, the vehicle's engine, the electrical systems and the transmission may be damaged." I have pictures of the water, and it was not a foot deep; and, as I stated, I was driving very slowly. At any rate, I'm turning the info over to my insurance company so they can pursue it if they wish to.
Another in the same thread:
I have the same exact vehicle and had the same situation happen to me. The engine just slowly went down to zero RPM and would not start up; no odd noises just a smooth shutdown/death. A nearby shop pulled the intake manifold and valve cover and there was quite a bit of water in one cylinder. A large jeep or truck was passing me at speed and created a small tidal wave which caused the engine to die. The water depth could not have been very deep since it wasn't even up to the bottom of the car. Getting this run through my insurance company has been a complete PITA. BMW says only new parts and the insurance only wants to pay for a used engine. Needless to say it's shaping up to be a big problem. I have not mentioned the owner's manual statement (which you referenced) about depth of water but maybe that will speed things along if I do.

The design flaw seems to be the fact that the engine is turbocharged. Other cars were driving through the same water with no issues but none were turbocharged. As Floyd mentioned earlier, the intake (from working on older BMW's) should be far up in the engine bay. But with the turbo's there appears to be a lower intake or an additional one that happens to be lower. Although the owner's manual verbiage about depth of water is probably a point of blame in this situation.
That thread is full of similar posts.

Last edited by DRGG; 09-13-2018 at 12:46 PM.
Old 09-13-2018 | 02:02 PM
  #59  
E55 KEV's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
Veteran: Air Force
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,531
Likes: 198
From: Washington D.C.
2016 GLE63s / 2016 E63s / 2002 E55
Originally Posted by Adi-Benz
No but he got compensated or something. It was a while ago, haven't seen it brought up since this thread.
I'm not subscribed nor follow on instragram. I watched his videos and I don't recall anything about compensation from MBUSA nor as you say "BS'd MBUSA for another car". If it's an insurance claim why would MBUSA get involved? To get another car from MBUSA would prolly fall under a Lemon-Law claim and there's nothing about a LL claim that I can see..

For the members stating it was his fault and he should be responsible - who among you would suck it up and fork over $71k to get your engine replaced? Yeah it's his fault but it was accidental and that's what insurance is for.
Old 09-13-2018 | 07:38 PM
  #60  
DRGG's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 153
Likes: 5
C63S AMG Coupe
I finally got curious enough to pop the hood and actually examine the air scoops, which are on either side of the hood latch. There is some kind of vent in the center that has spring-loaded flaps, I presume to cool the engine bay at at certain speed. But otherwise the air scoops don't have any flaps, spring-loaded or otherwise. Then the air duct takes a slight downward bend before it connects to the air filter on either side of the engine, and then into the turbochargers (via the filters). So, the scoops aren't really situated very low at all, and they are not really exposed and you cannot even see them if you look through the grill. Unless one has the hood open, I can't even understand how one can get water in them by washing the car. So, my vote is that there is not a design flaw. What I do think happens is that the turbos act like pumps or vacuum cleaners and suck the water right into the engine. I think if I was to re-design this, I would put some kind of a trap in there to catch water, with a drain at the bottom....but what do I know.

Last edited by DRGG; 09-13-2018 at 08:07 PM.
Old 09-14-2018 | 05:24 AM
  #61  
tekfoc's Avatar
Super Member
Veteran: Army
 
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 822
Likes: 102
From: NYC
18 E63S
Originally Posted by DRGG
I finally got curious enough to pop the hood and actually examine the air scoops, which are on either side of the hood latch. There is some kind of vent in the center that has spring-loaded flaps, I presume to cool the engine bay at at certain speed. But otherwise the air scoops don't have any flaps, spring-loaded or otherwise. Then the air duct takes a slight downward bend before it connects to the air filter on either side of the engine, and then into the turbochargers (via the filters). So, the scoops aren't really situated very low at all, and they are not really exposed and you cannot even see them if you look through the grill. Unless one has the hood open, I can't even understand how one can get water in them by washing the car. So, my vote is that there is not a design flaw. What I do think happens is that the turbos act like pumps or vacuum cleaners and suck the water right into the engine. I think if I was to re-design this, I would put some kind of a trap in there to catch water, with a drain at the bottom....but what do I know.

Stock intake system on the Subaru STI You see on right the container that sits in fender wheel well area . Design to take in excess water and reduce intake noise. This what my old STI had .
Old 09-14-2018 | 11:44 AM
  #62  
DRGG's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 153
Likes: 5
C63S AMG Coupe
Originally Posted by tekfoc

Stock intake system on the Subaru STI You see on right the container that sits in fender wheel well area . Design to take in excess water and reduce intake noise. This what my old STI had .
LOL! Let me quote Mark Twain here:

"There is no such thing as a new idea. It is impossible. We simply take a lot of old ideas and put them into a sort of mental kaleidoscope..."

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Quick Reply: C63s coupe intake design flaw?



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:38 PM.