Traction Problems and solutions?
08-28-2018, 09:01 PM
#26
Yea, seriously? haha
Comfort mode dials things down a bit, but 90% of my driving is done with comfort suspension (with everything else in Race). Sport and Sport+ suspension is way too stiff for most roads, and with a tune, any roads that aren't perfect just exacerbates traction issues with the suspension in Sport+. It's better having more suspension travel to soak up the road bumps when your tires are screaming for traction.
The only time I switch to Sport+ suspension is a few miles of very windy roads with elevation changes near my house. Classic Austin hill country roads. Those roads are nice and smooth and I can feel much better steering turn-in (it's much more immediate) with the dynamic engine mounts and firmer suspension dialed all the way up.
The Porsche just has incredible damping - the suspension is so dialed in, it always feels hooked up and compliant even on not so great condition roads. It's a completely different feel that inspires confidence to push harder, whereas in the C63S, you're always a bit nervous about the rear end out sliding or roasting tires.
Comfort mode dials things down a bit, but 90% of my driving is done with comfort suspension (with everything else in Race). Sport and Sport+ suspension is way too stiff for most roads, and with a tune, any roads that aren't perfect just exacerbates traction issues with the suspension in Sport+. It's better having more suspension travel to soak up the road bumps when your tires are screaming for traction.
The only time I switch to Sport+ suspension is a few miles of very windy roads with elevation changes near my house. Classic Austin hill country roads. Those roads are nice and smooth and I can feel much better steering turn-in (it's much more immediate) with the dynamic engine mounts and firmer suspension dialed all the way up.
The Porsche just has incredible damping - the suspension is so dialed in, it always feels hooked up and compliant even on not so great condition roads. It's a completely different feel that inspires confidence to push harder, whereas in the C63S, you're always a bit nervous about the rear end out sliding or roasting tires.
08-28-2018, 09:30 PM
#27
MBWorld Fanatic!
I’m not knocking the C63S for having traction issues, I’m just stating the facts. I knew exactly what I was getting into... I wanted a turbo V8 RWD car to have fun in...power oversteer and shred tires through 3rd gear... just have fun as a daily driver.
After a few years of driving it, I’ve gotten the hooning shenanigans out of my system. Now I want something that’s just as fast, but much lighter, more agile, and sticks to the road like glue. I departure from my 4100lb Coupe.
AMG and M both know that front engine RWD platforms hit a ceiling with power/traction, hence the E63S and M5 now being AWD with over 600 hp. A tune only C63S will make 600 hp all day, but you’ll realize quickly after roasting the tires through third gear why there were stories of Tobias Moers testing an AWD W205 C63 version before they stuck with RWD.
Driving with just a Dinan tune and 305 PS4S’s, I still need more grip and more tire. The only step I can take to put the power down is run drag radials or r-compounds which isn’t feasible for a daily driver.
08-29-2018, 01:14 AM
#28
Yes, I test drove the C63S Sedan (and an M4) before I bought the Coupe. I almost bought the Sedan right then and there, but instead put down a deposit for the first Coupe allocation the dealer had (the Coupe hadn’t even been officially announced, it was all speculation, but I knew I’d want it over the Sedan based on spy pics and what I read about it having a wider body and rear axle from the E63S.
I’m not knocking the C63S for having traction issues, I’m just stating the facts. I knew exactly what I was getting into... I wanted a turbo V8 RWD car to have fun in...power oversteer and shred tires through 3rd gear... just have fun as a daily driver.
After a few years of driving it, I’ve gotten the hooning shenanigans out of my system. Now I want something that’s just as fast, but much lighter, more agile, and sticks to the road like glue. I departure from my 4100lb Coupe.
AMG and M both know that front engine RWD platforms hit a ceiling with power/traction, hence the E63S and M5 now being AWD with over 600 hp. A tune only C63S will make 600 hp all day, but you’ll realize quickly after roasting the tires through third gear why there were stories of Tobias Moers testing an AWD W205 C63 version before they stuck with RWD.
Driving with just a Dinan tune and 305 PS4S’s, I still need more grip and more tire. The only step I can take to put the power down is run drag radials or r-compounds which isn’t feasible for a daily driver.
08-29-2018, 08:43 AM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
It’s fun, just not confidence inspring, and can be annoying when you want to hook up in lower gears.
The inherent issue is that we’re dealing with a front engine with not enough weight over the rear tires. I actually notice substantially improved grip when I fill up with a full tank of gas because you have an extra 90lbs or so in the rear. Cars like the AMG GTS are front mid-engine (mounted behind the front axles), with a rear transaxle transmission - that car hooks up with no problem at all.
Maybe I should buy some bags of sand and throw it in the trunk? It would be cheaper than swapping out my PS4S 305’s for an r-compound tire that’ll go 2000
miles before they need to be replaced.
08-29-2018, 06:49 PM
#31
Stock power is fine with traction. It’s when you add +100 ft-lbs torque with a tune that traction becomes an issue. We have small, fast spooling turbos that are sized for low end torque - when you’re tuned, the low RPM torque rips the tires loose at 3500 rpm.
It’s fun, just not confidence inspring, and can be annoying when you want to hook up in lower gears.
The inherent issue is that we’re dealing with a front engine with not enough weight over the rear tires. I actually notice substantially improved grip when I fill up with a full tank of gas because you have an extra 90lbs or so in the rear. Cars like the AMG GTS are front mid-engine (mounted behind the front axles), with a rear transaxle transmission - that car hooks up with no problem at all.
Maybe I should buy some bags of sand and throw it in the trunk? It would be cheaper than swapping out my PS4S 305’s for an r-compound tire that’ll go 2000
miles before they need to be replaced.
08-29-2018, 07:38 PM
#32
Super Member
Makes perfect sense. Let us know how the sand-traction device works. Maybe put some sand under the tires, too. So there really is very little net gain by increasing boost, but then why is there such an apparently large aftermarket for tuning this vehicle? Just because they can? Is it worth it just to get a tenth of a second 0-60 times? Anyway, this is a good example of how one cannot defeat fundamental laws of physics. But I still have the URGE to tune this car. Certainly people get something out of it. But what do they get?
But considering I only plan to keep the car a few years before moving on, I'm not looking to turn my daily driver into a "headache" project car. I've had many cars, some tuned all the way with custom turbo's etc. From my experience, a car that always "has issues" is no fun at all. I'm always worried about "getting this fixed, getting that fixed, getting this issue tuned" etc. Nowadays, I just want a fun car, lots of power, have my fun, and not have to worry about anything when I drive it.
Last edited by KJ; 08-30-2018 at 10:02 AM.
08-29-2018, 08:18 PM
#33
MBWorld Fanatic!
The problem is once you feel that extra boost come on, when it rips on highways and hooks, it’s impossible to go back to stock after feeling that. Going back to stock tune would feel so anemic.
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KJ (08-30-2018)
08-30-2018, 02:48 AM
#34
On the highway or from a roll, the tune will still make a huge difference. If warranty wasn't a concern, I would tune the car for sure.
But considering I only play to keep the car a few years before moving on, I'm not looking to turn my daily driver into a "headache" project car. I've had many cars, some tuned all the way with custom turbo's etc. From my experience, a car that always "has issues" is no fun at all. I'm always worried about "getting this fixed, getting that fixed, getting this issue tuned" etc. Nowadays, I just want a fun car, lots of power, have my fun, and not have to worry about anything when I drive it.
But considering I only play to keep the car a few years before moving on, I'm not looking to turn my daily driver into a "headache" project car. I've had many cars, some tuned all the way with custom turbo's etc. From my experience, a car that always "has issues" is no fun at all. I'm always worried about "getting this fixed, getting that fixed, getting this issue tuned" etc. Nowadays, I just want a fun car, lots of power, have my fun, and not have to worry about anything when I drive it.
08-30-2018, 10:04 AM
#35
Just had my car tuned. Massive increase in torque. Thought I would have no grip but after tune the grip has drastically increased.
The tuner who also races drag cars said that more torque can equal more grip because it loads the rear suspension and keeps it loaded.
So there is some intial wheel spin until the weight transfers to the rear and then the car just grips and goes....no more axel tramp that was driving me insane.
I still have the stock Mitchlin 265 tyres in the back. I was actually looking at getting wider tyres prior to tune because the grip was atrocious... but I am alot happier with grip now.
The tuner who also races drag cars said that more torque can equal more grip because it loads the rear suspension and keeps it loaded.
So there is some intial wheel spin until the weight transfers to the rear and then the car just grips and goes....no more axel tramp that was driving me insane.
I still have the stock Mitchlin 265 tyres in the back. I was actually looking at getting wider tyres prior to tune because the grip was atrocious... but I am alot happier with grip now.
08-30-2018, 11:02 AM
#36
Just had my car tuned. Massive increase in torque. Thought I would have no grip but after tune the grip has drastically increased.
The tuner who also races drag cars said that more torque can equal more grip because it loads the rear suspension and keeps it loaded.
So there is some intial wheel spin until the weight transfers to the rear and then the car just grips and goes....no more axel tramp that was driving me insane.
I still have the stock Mitchlin 265 tyres in the back. I was actually looking at getting wider tyres prior to tune because the grip was atrocious... but I am alot happier with grip now.
The tuner who also races drag cars said that more torque can equal more grip because it loads the rear suspension and keeps it loaded.
So there is some intial wheel spin until the weight transfers to the rear and then the car just grips and goes....no more axel tramp that was driving me insane.
I still have the stock Mitchlin 265 tyres in the back. I was actually looking at getting wider tyres prior to tune because the grip was atrocious... but I am alot happier with grip now.
If a tune could actually improve traction over the stock, then we're doing MB a favor by making the car safer.
Last edited by DRGG; 08-30-2018 at 11:25 AM.
08-31-2018, 05:26 AM
#37
"why is there such an apparently large aftermarket for tuning this vehicle?"
Because not everything is based on stand still improvements from a red light. Let someone try and pass you on the highway with a 600hp tune and a small drop on your right foot will put them in the rear view quick.
I love the tune most on entrance ramps to the highway. At about 30 mph I mash the pedal and Im at 90 in about 3 seconds.
Anyone who has ever had a tune or piggy says the same thing... Once you feel the improvement that going back is not an option. It is drastic and significant.
I added larger tires on my car from 265/245 to 285/265 and that made a huge difference in traction
With a piggy, all you need to do is remove the module, plug in the bypass plug ( about 30 seconds to do) and you are back to stock. Easy to A B and no issues with service.
Because not everything is based on stand still improvements from a red light. Let someone try and pass you on the highway with a 600hp tune and a small drop on your right foot will put them in the rear view quick.
I love the tune most on entrance ramps to the highway. At about 30 mph I mash the pedal and Im at 90 in about 3 seconds.
Anyone who has ever had a tune or piggy says the same thing... Once you feel the improvement that going back is not an option. It is drastic and significant.
I added larger tires on my car from 265/245 to 285/265 and that made a huge difference in traction
With a piggy, all you need to do is remove the module, plug in the bypass plug ( about 30 seconds to do) and you are back to stock. Easy to A B and no issues with service.
The following 2 users liked this post by CT-AMG:
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09-01-2018, 03:17 AM
#40
Junior Member
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=KJ;7541807]On the highway or from a roll, the tune will still make a huge difference. If warranty wasn't a concern, I would tune the car for sure.
Exactly the power in 3rd and 4th at highway speeds make a massive difference! You pick up speed a lot faster. The pull when it hooks is thrilling and feels very strong with the tune. I could never go back to stock power after having the tune.
Exactly the power in 3rd and 4th at highway speeds make a massive difference! You pick up speed a lot faster. The pull when it hooks is thrilling and feels very strong with the tune. I could never go back to stock power after having the tune.
09-01-2018, 11:06 AM
#41
"why is there such an apparently large aftermarket for tuning this vehicle?"
Because not everything is based on stand still improvements from a red light. Let someone try and pass you on the highway with a 600hp tune and a small drop on your right foot will put them in the rear view quick.
I love the tune most on entrance ramps to the highway. At about 30 mph I mash the pedal and Im at 90 in about 3 seconds.
Anyone who has ever had a tune or piggy says the same thing... Once you feel the improvement that going back is not an option. It is drastic and significant.
I added larger tires on my car from 265/245 to 285/265 and that made a huge difference in traction
With a piggy, all you need to do is remove the module, plug in the bypass plug ( about 30 seconds to do) and you are back to stock. Easy to A B and no issues with service.
Because not everything is based on stand still improvements from a red light. Let someone try and pass you on the highway with a 600hp tune and a small drop on your right foot will put them in the rear view quick.
I love the tune most on entrance ramps to the highway. At about 30 mph I mash the pedal and Im at 90 in about 3 seconds.
Anyone who has ever had a tune or piggy says the same thing... Once you feel the improvement that going back is not an option. It is drastic and significant.
I added larger tires on my car from 265/245 to 285/265 and that made a huge difference in traction
With a piggy, all you need to do is remove the module, plug in the bypass plug ( about 30 seconds to do) and you are back to stock. Easy to A B and no issues with service.
09-26-2018, 06:06 PM
#42
MBWorld Fanatic!
Got a flat tire on the way home today. You guys are talking about this tire being the best, right?
And on a sedan looks like 255/35/19F and 275/35/19R should fit without rubbing?
Thanks again!!
Sorry, having trouble uploading from phone... Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is the tire, correct?
And on a sedan looks like 255/35/19F and 275/35/19R should fit without rubbing?
Thanks again!!
Sorry, having trouble uploading from phone... Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is the tire, correct?
Last edited by skim7x; 09-26-2018 at 06:09 PM.
09-26-2018, 06:24 PM
#43
MBWorld Fanatic!
Got a flat tire on the way home today. You guys are talking about this tire being the best, right?
And on a sedan looks like 255/35/19F and 275/35/19R should fit without rubbing?
Thanks again!!
Sorry, having trouble uploading from phone... Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is the tire, correct?
And on a sedan looks like 255/35/19F and 275/35/19R should fit without rubbing?
Thanks again!!
Sorry, having trouble uploading from phone... Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is the tire, correct?
09-26-2018, 06:30 PM
#44
MBWorld Fanatic!
Awesome... Thanks for the prompt response!! The guy at Discount Tire said his computer was telling him that it might rub and they wouldn't be good in the rain... Maybe he was looking at the wrong tire... Thanks again!!
09-26-2018, 11:55 PM
#45
MBWorld Fanatic!
As far as rain I live in the desert so it hardly ever rains but the MT tire tests showed the 4S as the second best rain tire and the best dry tire.
11-12-2020, 06:57 AM
#46
Super Member
are tuners able to just increase power a bit more than stock?? say 550hp instead of 600hp???
i guess I am tryin to get a bit more power without destroying the whole feel of the car and your post in particular really struck a cord with me & I want to tune but I wont be able to deal with MORE traction problems
would 550hp would be better for our cars?? to not spoil it??
i asked two tuners for 550hp and they said NO only 600hp and will also TCU tune as package
is anyone tuned with less than 600hp here?? every damn tuner wants to tune to 600hp plus........... argh
Regards,
George Lisciandro
Last edited by George_1992; 11-12-2020 at 06:59 AM.
11-12-2020, 09:00 AM
#47
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Flat Earth
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AMG C63s Sedan , AMG C43 , AMG G63 , GLK 250
i am having this huge dilema right now & i am supposed to be tuning the car next week!!!............. from stock c63s coupe
are tuners able to just increase power a bit more than stock?? say 550hp instead of 600hp???
i guess I am tryin to get a bit more power without destroying the whole feel of the car and your post in particular really struck a cord with me & I want to tune but I wont be able to deal with MORE traction problems
would 550hp would be better for our cars?? to not spoil it??
i asked two tuners for 550hp and they said NO only 600hp and will also TCU tune as package
is anyone tuned with less than 600hp here?? every damn tuner wants to tune to 600hp plus........... argh
Regards,
George Lisciandro
are tuners able to just increase power a bit more than stock?? say 550hp instead of 600hp???
i guess I am tryin to get a bit more power without destroying the whole feel of the car and your post in particular really struck a cord with me & I want to tune but I wont be able to deal with MORE traction problems
would 550hp would be better for our cars?? to not spoil it??
i asked two tuners for 550hp and they said NO only 600hp and will also TCU tune as package
is anyone tuned with less than 600hp here?? every damn tuner wants to tune to 600hp plus........... argh
Regards,
George Lisciandro
I first started with Stage 1, Renntech, and that woke the car up.. of course you can spin the tires if YOU want.. but its not stupid like some people have there cars setup to be.
The whole reason tuners are now saying TCU tune, which now seems to just be used as a KEYWORD, the TCU actually will keep your car from being NON Driveable , as it limits the HP/TQ to the wheels.
So... with that being said.. I am on Stage 2 RennTech, Modalworks Intake, RennTech BOV's, and I can smoke my tires if I want too.. (key statement is " if i want too" ) I drive mine as a daily driver and rain, snow, sun, it drives amazing and have never been worried about it.
11-12-2020, 12:25 PM
#48
Super Member
Thanks again 😁
11-12-2020, 01:03 PM
#49
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Flat Earth
Posts: 1,450
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AMG C63s Sedan , AMG C43 , AMG G63 , GLK 250
My car was stock, so the power output was what ever normal for a c63s is/was ... and to be honest I dont care about the NUMBERS, as I dont need to compare that with anyone.
Did the Stage 1, make the car go !! YES, was it a noticeable change YES!! Tires, rims at the time were all stock.. LOVED IT...
I am not trying to have a HP war, or drag race slip showing I beat this or that.. I did the mods, because I want to enjoy the crap out of my car, and yes, its nice to smoke a few other sports car while doing the grocery shipping.. :-)
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11-12-2020, 01:28 PM
#50
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Join Date: Nov 2018
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2019 C63CS
i am having this huge dilema right now & i am supposed to be tuning the car next week!!!............. from stock c63s coupe
are tuners able to just increase power a bit more than stock?? say 550hp instead of 600hp???
i guess I am tryin to get a bit more power without destroying the whole feel of the car and your post in particular really struck a cord with me & I want to tune but I wont be able to deal with MORE traction problems
would 550hp would be better for our cars?? to not spoil it??
i asked two tuners for 550hp and they said NO only 600hp and will also TCU tune as package
is anyone tuned with less than 600hp here?? every damn tuner wants to tune to 600hp plus........... argh
Regards,
George Lisciandro
are tuners able to just increase power a bit more than stock?? say 550hp instead of 600hp???
i guess I am tryin to get a bit more power without destroying the whole feel of the car and your post in particular really struck a cord with me & I want to tune but I wont be able to deal with MORE traction problems
would 550hp would be better for our cars?? to not spoil it??
i asked two tuners for 550hp and they said NO only 600hp and will also TCU tune as package
is anyone tuned with less than 600hp here?? every damn tuner wants to tune to 600hp plus........... argh
Regards,
George Lisciandro
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Jimmy_c63s (11-13-2020)
