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Look, I agree OP might want to call, and I know what OP needs to do. And I am familiar with Renntech's rep. But if Renntech thenselves think 10.x with a stage 2 tune is normal, thats not great.
agreed it’s a weird-*** written response lol. All the more reason to pick up the phone and talk to Pat or someone.
For another point of reference we are below 9s on stock intake with velos stage 2 and our catless downpipes. You can check out our intake system introduction post which highlights our comparison between OEM and the ModalWorks design here: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-c63s-...ks-intake.html
what they said doesn’t make sense , there are plenty of cars on the dragy leader boards with more power and mods running faster times, using their logic this should be impossible due to “traction” when you floor it it may initially loose traction (depending on what tires your running) but It should hook up and go, I always run my 100-200kmh with traction control in sport mode and the trans in manual mode to stop it short shifting if it does break traction.
running some ethanol or octane booster would be the best thing todo for now
yes the logic doesnt make sense. theyre offering to retune my car for me. sending HHT to them today. they did say absolutely no ethanol when i said can i try 10-20% ethanol runs. they are heavily against it? maybe they want to tune my car for it first? im not sure yet.
Originally Posted by sinister.c63s
agreed...what they said makes no sense. I don't have the screen shot I saved of mine from last summer, but in reality you should be running sub 8.5 seconds with a stage 2 tune 60-130. I personally never put more than 3 gallons of e85 in my car, but you certainly notice a bump when you do add a couple gallons to a full tank of 93. Additionally, like everyone here has stated, you need to get your plugs done asap, recommend finding a good indy euro or tuning shop to help, as it should not cost more than $500ish dollars. While youre at it I would change the oil to some liquimoly (or motul) and add some ceratec (can buy from fcp euro in a kit). I bought my car used with 12k miles and tuned it a week after I bought it, these cars are known to have issues in cylinder 5, and mine was a victim as well...so when they pulled the plugs we noticed cylinder 5 plugs were torched. do those things, try and reflash tune and then see where youre at. I would have hoped that your tuner would have advised you to do these things prior to flashing, but again, it doesnt seem like he was very invested in helping you. Just my thoughts...
I expect 8 seconds or less at the very best on 60-130. plugs are being done this weekend. will update!
could be a cylinder issue- thanks for that. ill check that for sure what comes of that plug. my shop that isntalled tune just installed downpipes and tune and did dyno. they didnt have a part in anything else. maybe should have recommended sparks to me tho...but cars low mileage too so im not blaming anyone.
Originally Posted by ezatnova
When I got my Renntech HHT they advised me to do plugs since I was approaching 30k miles (and had misfires on another tune...cylinder 5 btw). I blame the other tune far more than the plugs, but wanted to eliminate any weak link in the chain. Not sure if OP ordered the HHT, loaded it on, and then just had the shop dyno it, or if the shop was somehow more involved. (Not sure how much more involved they could have been. You plug the thing in and press a button).
Anyway, I still advocate just doing the plugs yourself. It’s not hard at all and saves all the labor cost. Plus maybe you learn a thing or two.
yes doing plugs myself with a friend who has more experience. so ill learn lots about doing. interesting you note cylinger 5 as well...will see what hapepns i guess
Originally Posted by sinister.c63s
Totally agree on doing plugs yourself if you can gap them properly. The OP said the shop was basically there to flash and dyno, but still, anyone going stage 2 on nearly any vehicle should address plugs and oil first. The other concern which I only just now thought of, is what mercedes software version the tune is based on. Hopefully its the latest one. But you never know. I noticed a huge difference after redoing my tune with newer mercedes firmware, especially with the transmission response.
yeah not blaming the shop for not. addressing more issues with car. they said its a fuel issue as thats widely known. since car had knock too. no idea what mercedes software its on either.... not even sure how i can check that? my car sounded like crap before the downpipes and tune went on tho. all the talk about 2015 models not sounding good.. mine was always poor even with secondary cats cut out. only popped and crackled at high rpm downshifts .
Originally Posted by LessIsMore
Sounds like the Renntech tune isnt great, and your results are what is expected by Renntech. Their responses have been disappointing. i could see 0-60 mph being slower due to traction, not 60-130 mph though. Even a little wheelspin at 60 would be easily offset by being MUCH quicker for the rest of the run.
As a data point, I ran 8.3 with JB4 map 5. tune only, no intake or dp.
their logic didnt make sense on the 60-130 being slower.... but theyre still the best around and i trust them to turn this around for me.
Originally Posted by ezatnova
A bit outlandish to say that the Renntech tune isn’t great due to acting odd on one car that has bad gas, old plugs, third party downpipes, etc. In post 14 he even says the car knocked on the crap gas he’s using.
Renntech is probably one of, if not the single, most reliably proven tunes out there with the most AMG dedicated knowledge behind it.
I can’t speak for what OP is saying to Renntech, or how he’s communicated with them other than some cut and pastes from emails, but when I have questions for them I pick up the phone and get clear, simple answers.
He needs to remedy the bad gas and old plugs, re-dyno, and if there is still something odd, pick up the phone and talk to Renntech rather than trade notes on 60-130 times.
yes new plugs. filters. dyno. check everything. and ill call them with anything else. i hope its solved at that point tho.
Originally Posted by ModalWorks
For another point of reference we are below 9s on stock intake with velos stage 2 and our catless downpipes. You can check out our intake system introduction post which highlights our comparison between OEM and the ModalWorks design here: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-c63s-...ks-intake.html
Here is a chart comparison as well:
all the more frustrating to see those times on a stock lol. thanks for the info. i just bought new filters to put in car otherwise maybe i wouldve bought your product. $300 on filters now so ill try them first since i cant return.
I'm curious how the HHT "re-tune" goes. I've discussed e85 mixes with them and they just prefer not to tune with e85 at all. Either race fuel or mixes of high octane gasoline to achieve 93 oct or more.
Fuel quality in canada is usually better than usual US gas. Something seems wrong, these should be stock c63s time.
Not true, I'm in BC and confirm our gas is worse than anywhere in the states. This is common knowledge in the car scene here across the board no matter which car group or forum you talk too. And ya our chevron 94 is about the same as our shell 91, which still isn't quite as good as a US 91. I believe eastern Canada has slightly better fuel though. It's funny because we have a great strip right at sea level and often doesn't get very hot but we can never pull the same times as we see in the states whether stock or modded(no matter which car group) . Crossing the border and running some 92 from Washington is night and day on back to back dyno runs from tuners. Some guys will go as far as just only running 92 from Washington since we are bordering WA. That's the problem with us running these canned tunes from different vendors, we can't even request a 91 octane tune and expect it to work out. It's what's holding me back from even bothering to tune at the moment.
On my w204 I had some tweaking done on dyno remotely by Jerry at EC and he was blown away by how bad our fuel was. We ended up having to run some vp octanium to get rid of some detonation before he believed just how bad the gas really is here.
On a side note, who installed your dp's? And which dyno did you use? I can only think of 2 or so mustang dyno's around.
Edit : I'm not saying fuel is or isn't the issue here, just stating that our fuel IS worse than even Cali 91 (for example).
I'm curious how the HHT "re-tune" goes. I've discussed e85 mixes with them and they just prefer not to tune with e85 at all. Either race fuel or mixes of high octane gasoline to achieve 93 oct or more.
Will keep everyone posted. i didnt get around to mailing it back yesterday. going to send out this afternoon. work is crazy busy for me!
Originally Posted by ShaneN.
Not true, I'm in BC and confirm our gas is worse than anywhere in the states. This is common knowledge in the car scene here across the board no matter which car group or forum you talk too. And ya our chevron 94 is about the same as our shell 91, which still isn't quite as good as a US 91. I believe eastern Canada has slightly better fuel though. It's funny because we have a great strip right at sea level and often doesn't get very hot but we can never pull the same times as we see in the states whether stock or modded(no matter which car group) . Crossing the border and running some 92 from Washington is night and day on back to back dyno runs from tuners. Some guys will go as far as just only running 92 from Washington since we are bordering WA. That's the problem with us running these canned tunes from different vendors, we can't even request a 91 octane tune and expect it to work out. It's what's holding me back from even bothering to tune at the moment.
On my w204 I had some tweaking done on dyno remotely by Jerry at EC and he was blown away by how bad our fuel was. We ended up having to run some vp octanium to get rid of some detonation before he believed just how bad the gas really is here.
On a side note, who installed your dp's? And which dyno did you use? I can only think of 2 or so mustang dyno's around.
Edit : I'm not saying fuel is or isn't the issue here, just stating that our fuel IS worse than even Cali 91 (for example).
I had everything done at RG here. same dyno both times. no-tune run was august last year then with tune was when i started this thread few weeks back.
i do think fuel is a big issue here. but my sparks (cylinder 5 issue previously noted) could also be a problem. I will gladly only fill up over the border when its open with 92 at chevron. i have my nexus doesn't take me long.
does our shell here have ethanol? i wonder if i ran shell 91 what would happen. i assume little to no difference as its still like 88-89 compared to states.
Will keep everyone posted. i didnt get around to mailing it back yesterday. going to send out this afternoon. work is crazy busy for me!
I had everything done at RG here. same dyno both times. no-tune run was august last year then with tune was when i started this thread few weeks back.
i do think fuel is a big issue here. but my sparks (cylinder 5 issue previously noted) could also be a problem. I will gladly only fill up over the border when its open with 92 at chevron. i have my nexus doesn't take me long.
does our shell here have ethanol? i wonder if i ran shell 91 what would happen. i assume little to no difference as its still like 88-89 compared to states.
Shell 91 is no ethanol just like chevron 94. I've actually wondered about using a less popular gas stations 91 that does have ethanol of itd help as ethanol def had some anti knock properties.
Shell 91 is no ethanol just like chevron 94. I've actually wondered about using a less popular gas stations 91 that does have ethanol of itd help as ethanol def had some anti knock properties.
thats exactly what i was thinking. doing more research yet. wont try anything until the retune is done from renntech tho. just like having options and researching what could be a test.
I’m guessing the retune will just be a less aggressive mapping. They now offer a lower octane option on their website.
I think I would have sorted the car out first with plugs and good fuel before introducing another big variable like having them change the mapping on a tune that may have been fine but loaded onto a car that needed maintenance or proper fuel.
Last edited by ezatnova; Apr 19, 2020 at 09:27 AM.
I couldn’t get 0% grade but personally the “valid” run here of +3% incline genuinely felt very uphill towards the end to me, while the “invalid” -1% decline one felt darn near flat.
this is with Renntech HHT stock everything else.
Last edited by ezatnova; Apr 20, 2020 at 01:34 AM.
Wow those are some solid 60-130s on stock and with HHT only. Mine is wayyyy off that.
Update: i did sparks and new filter. No real damage to sparks. One was a bit oily and more worn than rest but overall they were fine tbh. replaced air filters on intakes- they werent dirty but now theyre upgraded too. Didn't get a 60-130 time documented yet. The car doesn't actually feel much. faster than before.
My friend has a modded Z06 (500 RWHP) and when my car was stock he would pull a car length away from me from a rolling start up to like 200 km/h almost. We did a run yesterday and from a launch we were neck and neck all the way basically (so yes the tune worked on low end...) but on higher speeds I got left behind same as I did before. Same comparison with my friends bike he pulls one car length away too and nothing much. changed there from when car was stock to now its tuned.
Overall this is what I've noticed with tune so far
1. car launches harder, way more torque, way louder, shifts are far quicker too.
2. when rolling if i hit gas it throws me in seat harder.
3. higher speeds it feels same as stock.
So I'm going to get some race fuel. A shop here can sell me 5 gallons for $170 and its about 110 octane. Now I don't want to run 110 octane fully of course. Renntech said do a blend of up to 95 octane (was my idea i sent to them but they agreed) and re-test my car.
So how much do I need to mix lol
If I fill up with 94 chevron (consider that it's actually 90 octane). How many gallons do i need to leave for 110 octane to make it 95 octane total? Or tank is what 16 gallons?
If I tried 8 gallons 90 oct and 1 gallon 110 oct that would equal... 8 x 90 = 720 + 110 = 830 / 9 total gallons = 92.2. That seem right?
I've noticed that my car seems to fall on its face in the higher RPM range. I am currently bone stock, but it could just be a function of the stock turbos running out of breath and you notice it more now due to how much stronger the car is on the low end.
I've noticed that my car seems to fall on its face in the higher RPM range. I am currently bone stock, but it could just be a function of the stock turbos running out of breath and you notice it more now due to how much stronger the car is on the low end.
thanks for the link. ill start with 8 gallons 94 octane and 1.25 gallons 110 octane. see how car times on that to start.
my 60-130 should still be considerably quicker than 10 seconds plus tho. even if stock turbos are slowing me down.
thanks for the link. ill start with 8 gallons 94 octane and 1.25 gallons 110 octane. see how car times on that to start.
my 60-130 should still be considerably quicker than 10 seconds plus tho. even if stock turbos are slowing me down.
True, the 60-130 should definitely be better than what you got. Try getting more data from that before upping your octane so you can test the variables (car maintenance vs. octane) independently.
Mm, oily and worn plug ... might not want to gloss over that. Where was oil and how much, what does worn mean exactly etc. ... no pic?
I don't reccommend trial-and-error, experimenting with different fuels, and racing when you suspect a problem.
You need to find a way to log the car as-is before changing anything else. Take it easy on it in the meantime.
Last edited by LessIsMore; Apr 21, 2020 at 01:35 AM.
I've noticed that my car seems to fall on its face in the higher RPM range. I am currently bone stock, but it could just be a function of the stock turbos running out of breath and you notice it more now due to how much stronger the car is on the low end.
Our intakes help considerably at high rpms. Instead of falling flat it feels more like it hits peak power and maintains it close to redline.
Mm, oily and worn plug ... might not want to gloss over that. Where was oil and how much, what does worn mean exactly etc. ... no pic?
I don't reccommend trial-and-error, experimenting with different fuels, and racing when you suspect a problem.
You need to find a way to log the car as-is before changing anything else. Take it easy on it in the meantime.
I apologize for harping on it, but even more so than that, I can’t believe the HHT was sent back for a “retune” when the car wasn’t running correctly. I mean, it’s not like Renntech is amateur hour over there and they need to tweak what they have to figure it out and make it work. Bottom line is, if you got an off-the-shelf Renntech tune and your car isn’t running right...it ain’t the tune that’s messed up.
Mm, oily and worn plug ... might not want to gloss over that. Where was oil and how much, what does worn mean exactly etc. ... no pic?
I don't reccommend trial-and-error, experimenting with different fuels, and racing when you suspect a problem.
You need to find a way to log the car as-is before changing anything else. Take it easy on it in the meantime.
true here are the 4 worst sparks all on one side. nothing major by what i thought and my mechanic. thoughts?
I apologize for harping on it, but even more so than that, I can’t believe the HHT was sent back for a “retune” when the car wasn’t running correctly. I mean, it’s not like Renntech is amateur hour over there and they need to tweak what they have to figure it out and make it work. Bottom line is, if you got an off-the-shelf Renntech tune and your car isn’t running right...it ain’t the tune that’s messed up.
makes sense man. i haven't sent the tune back yet. i'm going to test more 0-60 and 60-130 and 1.4 miles to get a really good set of times so i know where the car is sitting right now.
take a look at the spark plug pic and see what you think? i didn't think it was major.
i dont have a data logger. renntech didn't really help when i asked what i can use to send info back. so if anyone can link me to something to go and buy ill get it and log some stuff. like i mentioned before never done it before so its new to me. my Dragy also broke yesterday so i couldnt get more times. dam thing doesn't charge. its basically brand new too!
makes sense man. i haven't sent the tune back yet. i'm going to test more 0-60 and 60-130 and 1.4 miles to get a really good set of times so i know where the car is sitting right now.
take a look at the spark plug pic and see what you think? i didn't think it was major.
i dont have a data logger. renntech didn't really help when i asked what i can use to send info back. so if anyone can link me to something to go and buy ill get it and log some stuff. like i mentioned before never done it before so its new to me. my Dragy also broke yesterday so i couldnt get more times. dam thing doesn't charge. its basically brand new too!
plugs look fine (i.e. no oil or catastrophic
issue). They can look just fine and need replacing on a tuned M177 though.
stinks about your dragy. Maybe contact them for support if it’s new. Mine is about a year old and only holds 80% charge.
remeber your HHT has one easy button to switch back to stock.
get your gas quality/octane settled. Get your dragy working. Get a cheap OBD2 app or plug in unit to log (there are many discussed around here). You’ve already got nice new plugs.
Then put your car back to stock with the HHT. Record three runs and document the logs and dragy times. Then go reload the tune with the HHT and do the same.
Then, if anything seems odd with the tuned dragy times, you can look at your logs for timing being pulled or whatever.
I tested MS103 race fuel. Made a blend to bring my car to a true 94 octane (considering my 94 octane up here in Canada is more like 89 octane).
Results:
0-60 no improvement. still sitting from 4.1-4.3 seconds.
1/4 mile no improvement. still above 12 seconds mostly 12.3.
I did notice 4th gear is now a huge power surge. where I'll be honest it's almost too scary? I didn't feel that before.
1st gear- still slips and struggles for traction (running 295's remember on rear and i warmed them up with a burnout first too)
2nd gear- feels like it pulls hard and instant torque
3rd gear- feels a little sluggish dare i say it? now im comparing to 4th gear...
4th gear car pulls hard its liek boost comes in super strong and it flies.
When i raced my friends MT-09 bike he used to jump a car length or 2 ahead from 60kmh rolls. now we were alot closer he was maybe 1 car if that. When we went from a 100kmh roll it was almost dead even now when before he still pulled a car away.
I didn't get anything dyno'd tho. It doesn't seem like the issue is resolved. Yes race fuel helped but it was always going to improve a bit. doesn't seem like its enough.
Anymore advice on what I can get checked? Car was parked over winter... maybe battery? auxiliary battery malfunction comes up still but thats just for stop/start function so i don't think that causes any issues.
sparks are done, air filters new.
I would have a CEL if i had a boost leak, thought maybe downpipes were damaged somehow. Need advice please this car is frustrating me now! meant to go to Area 27 racetrack on june 14 but with it performing like this I don't even want to go
Man that is frustrating. Maybe take it to a shop and have them scan for codes. You might be in a soft limp mode and not realize it. With new spark plugs, good fuel, and fresh air filters, you should be running fine. Try re-loading the stock tune and get some data with that. Then re-load the tuned file and re-test. Maybe something will come up that you can relay to Renntech that will help them diagnose the issue you are having.
Man that is frustrating. Maybe take it to a shop and have them scan for codes. You might be in a soft limp mode and not realize it. With new spark plugs, good fuel, and fresh air filters, you should be running fine. Try re-loading the stock tune and get some data with that. Then re-load the tuned file and re-test. Maybe something will come up that you can relay to Renntech that will help them diagnose the issue you are having.
yeah definitely frustrating. i booked my car in for a dyno with data logger hooked up.
so we will flash the car back to stock. run it on dyno. then throw tune on. run again and see what shows up. only thing i can think of and cross my fingers that something comes up!!
I ran the car against the MT-09 bike again. its running better since the race fuel was added even though thats finished now and im back to just pump 94 (89 octane).
something has to be up with why 3rd gear doesnt feel so strong but 4th feels like twice the power.
Btw, anybody has a valid before and after dyno run of the Renntech OBD tune? On their webpages they show the before and after but the gain in torque and HP start immediately at lowest RPM (charts start at 2k RPM and lots of gain there already). Most other tunes dyno show gains above 2.5 or 3k to kick in with little to nothing below 2.5k or even 2k. Always wonder if Renntech is just so much better there or just a wrong presentation of dyno curves on their website?
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