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We have turbos here from a 2020, a 2017 and a 2016. and have measured the comp and turbine wheels. There is no difference, so whoever said there is maybe needs to check again. There is a difference in the inlet manifolds though (not the airboxes). they are a lot smaller.
Not 100% sure TBH, something is limiting the power of FL vs PFL and it isn't the turbos...
Zac............ thank u.
Please tell me, when you drive the FL did you feel it didn't have the same rush as the older car? Because I'm telling you, the FACELIFT C63s does not feel like the PREFACELIFT. You can bash me all you want but there is no doubt about it. This and the faux engine noise is why I did not trade in and I was ready with cash............ I took the time to write a whole review thread on this and got flame grilled of course........... lol
The facelift just doesn't have that urgency to me. It's got power but it doesn't have that lunacy and crazy gut wrenching acceleration like the pfl!!!!! Especially in 3rd gear. It's how it felt to me and I want to know if you feel this too???.............
Please tell me, when you drive the FL did you feel it didn't have the same rush as the older car? Because I'm telling you, the FACELIFT C63s does not feel like the PREFACELIFT. You can bash me all you want but there is no doubt about it. This and the faux engine noise is why I did not trade in and I was ready with cash............ I took the time to write a whole review thread on this and got flame grilled of course........... lol
The facelift just doesn't have that urgency to me. It's got power but it doesn't have that lunacy and crazy gut wrenching acceleration like the pfl!!!!! Especially in 3rd gear. It's how it felt to me and I want to know if you feel this too???.............
⏱️ 700HP Facelift converted C63 S Coupe with Drexler 3.06 plated LSD
Originally Posted by ZAC MOTORSPORT
There is a difference in the inlet manifolds though (not the airboxes). they are a lot smaller.
Whoa, good to know this 😮
Thanks for the info, Zac. Like everyone else, I also wonder why they did this. I mean, this must affect power if the facelift c63s inlets are much smaller, right?
Thanks for the info, Zac. Like everyone else, I also wonder why they did this. I mean, this must affect power if the facelift c63s inlets are much smaller, right?
The rear of the FL intake manifolds are a lot smaller. Without doing CFD on them (not happening, too complicated to draw) It looks to me like they are trying to increase throttle response at the expense of top end power. Speculation though.. I thought it may have been a packaging issue with the new engine mounts, but externally the mounts are the same.
They use the same manifold on the GLC and the motor mounts are different, so instead of making two different parts, they make one part for both cars...at least that's my theory.
They use the same manifold on the GLC and the motor mounts are different, so instead of making two different parts, they make one part for both cars...at least that's my theory.
⏱️ 700HP Facelift converted C63 S Coupe with Drexler 3.06 plated LSD
Originally Posted by ZAC MOTORSPORT
The rear of the FL intake manifolds are a lot smaller. Without doing CFD on them (not happening, too complicated to draw) It looks to me like they are trying to increase throttle response at the expense of top end power. Speculation though.. I thought it may have been a packaging issue with the new engine mounts, but externally the mounts are the same.
Searched through EPC and part numbers are also different for FL and PFL.
Here are two photos I have from looking around last night. Is this what you're explaining? Ones got a noticeably bigger chamber and the other is skinnier?
Apart from being left and right examples, these are the correct intake manifolds for PFL & FL yes?
Last edited by Jimmy_c63s; Sep 9, 2020 at 10:53 PM.
Searched through EPC and part numbers are also different for FL and PFL.
Here are two photos I have from looking around last night. Is this what you're explaining? Ones got a noticeably bigger chamber and the other is skinnier?
Apart from being left and right examples, these are the correct intake manifolds for PFL & FL yes?
Yep I had a better pic but can't seem to find it.@RDO247 can chime in?
The rear of the FL intake manifolds are a lot smaller. Without doing CFD on them (not happening, too complicated to draw) It looks to me like they are trying to increase throttle response at the expense of top end power. Speculation though.. I thought it may have been a packaging issue with the new engine mounts, but externally the mounts are the same.
So how does the affect something like doing a turbo upgrade? Been thinking about doing pure turbos on mine but I dont really want to until the differences are fully understood.
So how does the affect something like doing a turbo upgrade? Been thinking about doing pure turbos on mine but I dont really want to until the differences are fully understood.
I think what he’s saying is that without measuring the CFM flow of the PFL and the FL intake manifolds, there’s no way to determine if there’s any difference in performance with the smaller/thinner looking PFL intake manifolds.
Generally speaking, for FI applications, you want more plenum volume that can be evenly distributed to each cylinder - so if the PFL intake manifold do indeed flow more CFM, it would make them better suited for high flow/horsepower applications over the FL design.
It’s possible that AMG had to redesign the intake manifolds for the FL C63 and GLC (they appear to be the same), because of the 9-speed MCT transmission. The 7-speed more than likely allowed for more room for larger intake plenums.
There's already a long thread on this from last year. Have fun reading it. Don't remember quite what the ultimately conclusion was, but it's essentially irrelevant if even correct. Size matters for response. Smaller turbos are more responsive. The main question is are they efficient for the rated power and that they are. The FL has generally been faster than the PFL, partly because of the transmission as well. Tuning is a different story and if done right requires upgraded turbos anyway. The stock turbos even in the PFL simply can't handle more top end. Most tunes only add more low to mid range torque and power instead of adding more power at the top where you really want it. You need to upgrade the turbos to handle more power at the top. Look at CarBahn's tune with upgraded turbos.
Going off renntechs website it looks like the gtc and gtr have the same turbos. Once tuned they make the exact same power.
On another note there is a YouTuber who has done accelaration testing on both the facelift and prefacelift c63s. The 0-200kmh on the PFL was about a half second slower than the facelift at 13.3 vs 12.9 for the new car. Not sure if it was tested in comparable conditions as the videos were posted a year apart. So there is certainly margin for error with variable road/weather but I do think it shows that the facelift cars really are not noticeably slower as a few people have claimed on here.
Don't they have different transmissions (7 speed v 9 speed) and the FL also has a 9 stage launch control? I think 100km/h - 200 km/h times would be a better comprise as it removes the inconsistency in the launch on both cars. The slightly smaller turbos probably work better with the 9 speed transmission for a car that is intended to work the best for everyone in stock form.
There's already a long thread on this from last year. Have fun reading it. Don't remember quite what the ultimately conclusion was, but it's essentially irrelevant if even correct. Size matters for response. Smaller turbos are more responsive. The main question is are they efficient for the rated power and that they are. The FL has generally been faster than the PFL, partly because of the transmission as well. Tuning is a different story and if done right requires upgraded turbos anyway. The stock turbos even in the PFL simply can't handle more top end. Most tunes only add more low to mid range torque and power instead of adding more power at the top where you really want it. You need to upgrade the turbos to handle more power at the top. Look at CarBahn's tune with upgraded turbos.
I agree. I have a stage 2 tune on my PFL and the torque curve peaks at about 4000rpm and drops sharply, almost back to stock levels by 6500rpm. Even the power peaks around 4500rpm - 5500rpm and starts to dip as it approaches redline. I would much rather a more progressive curve where peak power is achieved near redline and the torque peaks a bit later but stays flatter longer, like on my Audi RS5 (V8) and R35 GTR I owned previously. I don't think I can get that without after marked turbos.
Many OEM parts of a vehicle are revised and improved over time.
There are some parts of the pre-facelift model that caused problems and were improved in the facelift model (electronic engine mounts, oil separator,slide rail, cranksaft seal , etc.).
Unfortunately, the MB parts catalog does not show when (date) a new part was introduced. Only the factory knows that.
Smaller turbos (parts of the turbo) and a smaller intake manifold in the facelift model certainly also have a technical basis and represent an improvement.
Ask an AMG engineer from m177 LS1 - he'll explain it to you.
Last edited by C63s_Jack; Dec 30, 2025 at 03:04 AM.
Smaller turbos (parts of the turbo) and a smaller intake manifold in the facelift model certainly also have a technical basis and represent an improvement.
Ask an AMG engineer from m177 LS1 - he'll explain it to you.
What improvement? Less lag maybe?
You do know that the facelift c63s are a just a bit slower and heavier right? Not that it matters as I would rather a robust facelift model over a pfl but just making sure you understand this as you seem to make interesting statements. Prefacelift coupes are 210kw per tonne whilst facelift coupe are 201kw per tonne just for the record.................
So what improvements do the smaller intake chambers and smaller turbos produce?
63s Coupe 0-100 km/h 3.9 sek PFL
63s Coupe 0-100 km/h. 3.9 sek FL
weight ~ identical 1725 kg DIN
Yeah, I’m not sure where George got the data from and above isn’t correct, either. I have to find the official numbers when I get a chance, but the FL is 1/10th of a second faster. It’s because of the shorter gear ratios of the 9-speed. The FL makes more wheel torque/hp in the first 7 gears than the PFL, because all 7 gear ratios are shorter than the PFL ratios. The FL makes up the fuel economy compromise with the 8th and 9th gear
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