Has anyone regretting their 2019-2021 purchase after owning a pre-facelift w205?
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From: Houston, TX
2010 BMW E63 M6 Coupe 2023 AMG C63s Coupe 2005 YZF-R1
Out Of Control!!
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2019 C63CS
I think there's a lot of misunderstanding around the subject. The lack of pops&bangs is mostly due to changes in the ECU. Due to noise regulations in the EU, the ECU simply produces less and more muted pops&bangs. These pops&bangs are created by extending the combustion past the cylinder exhaust valves opening, so the air/fuel mixture finishes burning in the exhaust. Technically, this is actually meant for anti-lag to keep the turbos spooling during brief off throttle moments. It even injects fuel with the exhaust valves open for a non-compression combustion simply to keep the exhaust stream flowing for the turbos. The ECU controls how much of that is happening. Particularly because of the EU regulations, they don't do it anymore below 4000 rpm, and I guess AMG didn't feel the need to have a different programming for the US market. You can get a burble tune if you want them back. In the FL the pops&bangs are more purposeful again. They happen when you actually drive the car hard, so they are back to being more of an anti-lag system than a pure noise maker.
Last edited by superswiss; Aug 3, 2021 at 10:53 PM.
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Perhaps it needs to be reiterated, the particulate filter if it's present does not have an effect on pops, bangs and crackles. It does reduce volume somewhat, but the pops, bangs and crackles are a matter of software tuning. They get created by extending the combustion cycle into the exhaust cycle so the air/fuel mixture finishes burning inside of the exhaust.
The particulate filter affects overall volume and tone. Although we do not know definitively, I think the general consensus is that US-spec cars do NOT have the OPF.
Two reasons why:
- The OPF code does not appear in US-spec build sheets.
- Confirmation by Rokenr that facelift C63S sound louder outside of the EU (he tested a FL in Dubai). This suggests that there are different exhaust systems for different regions. Anecdotally, my FL (w/ ASR exhaust valve module) is louder than the PFL stock system (w/o valves).
Last edited by Xec; Aug 3, 2021 at 11:00 PM. Reason: Added edit comment
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Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Los Angeles
'18 C63s Coupe
Had a 2018 c63 coupe but in the market to purchase a new one. I’m considering getting the newer ones but have heard of the particle filter complaints. Has anyone personally owned a 2015-2018 w205, upgraded to the facelift, and ended up going back to pre-facelift w205? I felt if I never got to enjoy my 2018 exhaust, I would be fine with a newer model. Not sure if I’m setting myself up to get disappointed. I know the new ones have a slightly upgraded interior and 9-speed trans.
P.S. What’s with these c63 prices
P.S. What’s with these c63 prices
- For me, the wild exhaust of the PFL is one of the primary reasons I bought the car. The FL sounds fine, but it's a letdown after owning the PFL. This isn't something that's easy to change, despite what some others may suggest.
- I did find the transmission slightly more responsive (primarily in manual mode), but it was not night and day.
- The ride in comfort mode in the FL may be fractionally softer than the PFL, but I honestly could not tell the difference.
- The other stuff (steering wheel, digi dash, traction control) isn't important to me
Ultimately it comes down to what's important to you, but if it's stock sound, you'll likely be disappointed with the FL if you previously owned the PFL.
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 528
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From: Houston, TX
2010 BMW E63 M6 Coupe 2023 AMG C63s Coupe 2005 YZF-R1
I think there's a lot of misunderstanding around the subject. The lack of pops&bangs is mostly due to changes in the ECU. Due to noise regulations in the EU, the ECU simply produces less and more muted pops&bangs. These pops&bangs are created by extending the combustion past the cylinder exhaust valves opening, so the air/fuel mixture finishes burning in the exhaust. Technically, this is actually meant for anti-lag to keep the turbos spooling during brief off throttle moments. It even injects fuel with the exhaust valves open for a non-compression combustion simply to keep the exhaust stream flowing for the turbos. The ECU controls how much of that is happening. Particularly because of the EU regulations, they don't do it anymore below 4000 rpm, and I guess AMG didn't feel the need to have a different programming for the US market. You can get a burble tune if you want them back. In the FL the pops&bangs are more purposeful again. They happen when you actually drive the car hard, so they are back to being more of an anti-lag system than a pure noise maker.
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 397
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From: TX
IG: @amg.svr
Thanks for the answers, superswiss and XEC. If it’s so simple as a tune to make the FL sound as loud as the PFL, then I’m wondering why more people aren’t just getting the tune? And why is it also necessary to change out the downpipes? I was under the impression the fix to regaining PFL pops/bangs required swapping out downpipes and a tune.
See here:
Main reason is Mercedes tends to be particularly unkind to tunes when it comes to warranty coverage. Also to install downpipes you need to drop the transmission. For me that didn't seem worth the additional cost and risk for my daily driver.
Then again I ended buying a second toy to satisfy the sound department instead so maybe a tune+DP would've been cheaper lol.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2018
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From: San Francisco Bay Area
2019 C63CS
Pretty much as @Xec said. Tunes etc. bring along warranty concerns and headaches. Here in California the SMOG test now involves checking for tunes and if they find a tune, it fails SMOG. Personally I'm just not gonna chop up my car for a different sound. I like that it can be quiet or loud. For example you can have a loud engine start with the FL by holding one of the shift paddles while starting the engine. It's called Emotion Start, and pretty much how I start the car most times. This starts it with the exhaust valves open and revs the engine to about 3000 rpm. But I can also start it more quietly late at night or early in the morning to be considerate to my neighbors. It's somewhat of an 80/20 rule thing. To me an aftermarket exhaust was never worth it, because it's just sound. Maybe if it came with significant performance improvements. Once mine is out of warranty and depending on what the future brings, I might take it to CarBahn and get their kit installed along with upgraded turbos, tune etc. and then keep it for a while, but that brings me back to the SMOG situation.
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2019 AMG G63, 2020 AMG C63s Coupe
No regrets at all but I did get downpipes with HJS 200 cell cats put on the car and it made a huge difference in sound and even throttle response, car felt more powerful because it just felt sharper afterwards. Had I not done the downpipes I don't think I would have ever fully enjoyed the car because it would not have met expectations sound wise.
Last edited by BrianShaw23; Aug 5, 2021 at 07:23 PM.
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No regrets at all but I did get downpipes with HJS 200 cell cats put on the car then it made a huge difference in sound and even throttle response, car felt more powerful because it just felt sharper afterwards. Had I not done the downpipes I don't think I would have ever fully enjoyed the car because it would not have met expectations sound wise.
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2019 AMG G63, 2020 AMG C63s Coupe
Last edited by BrianShaw23; Aug 5, 2021 at 07:25 PM.
