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Thanks for your honest review.
Yes you are right, EVO2 improves on first edition.
No more massaging bonnet felt or trimming PCV tanks under intake tubes. Smaller filter diameter. Only mod needed is removal of harness cover on one side. Simple and easily reversed. We also changed to another carbon factory for the EVO2 intakes, with better processes, and better cleacoat.
That's really good to hear. How about the fuel rail connector? I used the smaller K&N for a while but they still sit on that connector.
truly sealed- you dont want to mess around with these open pod filters with their make shift heat shields- its not a true ENCLUSURE.
remember: the c63 cars has 2 hot screaming turbos on the top of the engine bay ant they radiate heat. none of the pod filters have a truly sealed design, and their heat shields have gaps and crevices throughout.
plus its just 2 curved elbows with pods and heat absorbing METAL heat shields- good for profit margins- not so good for performance. These same vendors will say "oh when the car is in movement it doesnt matter" - that may be technically true but no ones car is always moving.
Some interesting theories here.
A lot of (if not all) enclosed systems are not insulated.
Carbon itself is not an insulator, with its conductivity generally above that of aluminium
Aluminium conductivity ~200 W/m*KHigh modulus carbon conductivity ~200-500 W/m*K
So carbon is going to take in and then radiate heat more so than if that enclosed box was aluminium.
Compare that to glass ~3 W/m*KOr plastic (like the factory airboxes ~3 W/m*K)
We actually made a batch of fibreglass intake tubes (our Black Glass edition) and they did seem cooler to touch. We should have (and still could) run one fibreglass and one carbon tube at the same time and compare with a heat gun. I will put it on my to-do list. The only saving grace for carbon would be if you ran particularly high resin (plastic~3 W/m*K), content. However you run the risk of failures, resin alone is not strong without a reinforcement material, even the highest temp resins can't handle that much heat relatively, (something I experimented with during my time in the carbon bicycle rim industry) and you would need well over 60% resin content to make much difference, they would also go yellow very fast. Given all manufacturers would likely be using pre-preg carbon anyway, the resin content will be 40% straight off the roll. My point here is don't think that carbon is going to do a better job at insulating against heat compared to metal. It is simply not the case.
Our heat shields are composed of a layer of aluminium panel. But importantly a second layer of fibreglass insulation rated to 1600degC, then closest to the turbos a layer of highly reflective stainless dimpled sheet to reflect the radiant heat before it passes to the insulation.
We also suggest the turbo blanket as a front line of defence.
For an analogy, if you have been in a car without airconditioning during a hot summers day, what do you do? You wind the window right down!
Our air scoops are like winding the window right down. Feed more cold air to the filters. The factory plastic inlet used by others is the window down 1/3rd. More air, more cooling.
An enclosed uninsulated airbox is like standing in your tin garden shed with the door closed in the middle of a hot summer's day. It is cooler standing outside in the sun. The shed is radiating heat all around you.
As you are at a standstill in traffic everything gets hot. No stopping it unless you remove your hood alltogether (would look pretty tough admittedly).
What we do is get as much cool moving air around the filters as quickly and efficiently as possible.
At the end of it all the Eventuri system and others attempt to solve what the major restriction was, the tiny inlet into the turbo.
On a stock car the factory intakes suffice. Which is why you will only see maybe a 2% HP increase by changing the intake on a stock car. Do you think you would even notice 10hp on a 500hp C63? What you may notice is improved throttle response.
On our system at least (since it is open top) you will get a satisfying intake sound.
Where an aftermarket intake really shines on these cars is stage 3 and above.
IAT issues on the 205 in particular is more down to insufficient factory intercooling and the piggyback heat exchanger for the transmission on the intercooler circuit than it is from the intake itself.
It's all down to personal preference. But honestly, if you just want more power, a stage 1 tune costs less than most intakes. Start there😉
Last edited by ZAC MOTORSPORT; Jun 2, 2022 at 03:44 AM.
There is now a plastic cover that clips onto the plug.
That's good, you now deliver that cover as part of the kit and it somehow snaps onto the connector preventing it to be pushed down onto the wires and bend/damage them? I made my own cover for the cutout on the version 1 heatshields but a) did not look too nice, and b) tended to come off (glue did not stick well between plastic and your heatshield.
We run aluminum intake tubing on our 55k applications that you cannot physically touch after a day at the drag strip and we are still getting intake temps as low as 91* peak at 21PSI making 700hp on an 88* day. Yesterday was 95* outside and 99* peak temps.
These Hot V engines with these open intakes are not getting anywhere near as hot on the intake piping or the bay itself, and the cooling systems are far more advanced, As long as your cooling system is efficient run whatever intake you want. Let your cooling system do its job. This entire debate over open/closed/ insulated/ metal pipes/ carbon pipes/ fiberglass pipes, is really all a waste of time and energy. If you want the most power go with giant VRP1000 turbos, If your not willing to spend that kind of money money on the car + upgrading everything else that's required pick an intake, put it on, and enjoy your car.
We run aluminum intake tubing on our 55k applications that you cannot physically touch after a day at the drag strip and we are still getting intake temps as low as 91* peak at 21PSI making 700hp on an 88* day. Yesterday was 95* outside and 99* peak temps.
These Hot V engines with these open intakes are not getting anywhere near as hot on the intake piping or the bay itself, and the cooling systems are far more advanced, As long as your cooling system is efficient run whatever intake you want. Let your cooling system do its job. This entire debate over open/closed/ insulated/ metal pipes/ carbon pipes/ fiberglass pipes, is really all a waste of time and energy. If you want the most power go with giant VRP1000 turbos, If your not willing to spend that kind of money money on the car + upgrading everything else that's required pick an intake, put it on, and enjoy your car.
For the most part/users it will simply come down to aesthetics, quality, and customer service (baseline is what someone is willing to spend). For me, they are clear winners and loser's in those 3 categories. I rather don't put an intake on (assuming turbo's and tune don't require it) if it looks like a chop job.
Would love to get more feedback and input from Zac / VRP/ and Modal
Reading through the thread, I am not sure what more you want to know from our side? If you have anymore questions thought contact us on socials or email sales@zacmotorsport.com
Thanks
And worst design: metal elbows (heats up and retains heat) , no enclosure (filters will literally suck up all that hot engine air), metal "heat shields" or whatever that's called ( same as the elbows-get hot and retain heat)
Just a easy china made cash grab-for profit.
At least the Zak has carbon elbows and somewhat decent shielding from the hot ambient air.
Eventuri, Weistec or oem with bmc and top box spacer for the win.
And worst design: metal elbows (heats up and retains heat) , no enclosure (filters will literally suck up all that hot engine air), metal "heat shields" or whatever that's called ( same as the elbows-get hot and retain heat)
Just a easy china made cash grab-for profit.
At least the Zak has carbon elbows and somewhat decent shielding from the hot ambient air.
Eventuri, Weistec or oem with bmc and top box spacer for the win.
I replaced my OEM filters with BMC.... but what is the top box spacer? This is the first I've heard of it. Thanks.
Would love to get more feedback and input from Zac / VRP/ and Modal
TLDR; Our design has time and time again shown actual improvements on the street and dyno. We start with the theoretical, optimize in simulation and always back it up with testing. It was used on the worlds quickest and fastest 1/4mi C63, and was recently shown to gain 70whp on a stock turbo car showing a 0.41s 60-130 dragy improvement. Additionally, a number of other customers have reported reducing their 60-130 times by over 0.5s with various tunes and turbos. We believe our due diligence on the design side has paid off and we have produced a design that shows tremendous power improvements over stock.
Our system uses a progressively tapered tube that reduces in cross section start at the filter and necking down to the turbo inlet, acting like a large venturi velocity stack, something that isn't possible on a constant diameter design. The overall shape was optimized with CFD to maximize the mass flow rate through the intake system and mitigate stagnation/recirculatory flow eddies. We are trying to optimize for mass flow rate through the intake system. Our design went through multiple iterations before settling on our released version trying to optimize for the most airflow while trying to keep things cool...There was a tradeoff to be had by either sealing off the box entirely and shrinking the filter size/inlet or going with our current tube design to promote more airflow. We decided to go with the later after proving out the differences on the dyno and street. We noticed that going with a smaller inlet cross section/filter with a fully enclosed system ultimately lost out in terms of maximum mass flow to the engine .
We also investigated a panel filter design and steered away from that due to shear filtration surface area. Additionally, the semi-closed heat shields have gasketing and an additional aluminized reflective layer to help the filters suck in colder air than they would have without the gasketing and reflective material.
I don't see how something like that could help anything as the air will still have to move through the same inlet path from the filter to the turbo. This will not increase that in any way.
And worst design: metal elbows (heats up and retains heat) , no enclosure (filters will literally suck up all that hot engine air), metal "heat shields" or whatever that's called ( same as the elbows-get hot and retain heat)
Just a easy china made cash grab-for profit.
At least the Zak has carbon elbows and somewhat decent shielding from the hot ambient air.
Eventuri, Weistec or oem with bmc and top box spacer for the win.
This is a completely inaccurate comment.. The Stainless steel heat plates are Cut and Bent in Colorado USA, The aluminum piping is bent, cut and welded in California USA, The Cerakote for both is applied in Colorado USA, The filters are from K&N, a US based company. The Clamps are sourced from a US based company. The VRP Might actually be literally the most USA made intake on the market... Your assumptions were wrong.
It is a fact that at least 2 of the carbon intakes mentioned in this thread are sourced from China. That being said, 90+% of the parts you are all ordering for your car, even from the most expensive, reputable, R and W named companies are coming from china. The issue is whether or not you prefer to support US based companies, not whether or not china is capable of making quality parts.
The open/closed argument really doesn't stand. If your intercooler circuit is functioning properly and efficiently, you just want the most air to the turbos as possible. PROVE that Open boxes with larger filters makes less power than smaller filters in closed boxes. "Hot air intakes" are on plenty of 2,000 HP race cars.
The 3" fresh air inlet on the MW sealed box is NOT feeding the filters the maximum air if they are truly sealed boxes. but being that the MW pipes are only 2.5" your fine.
Sealed boxes with anything bigger than the panel filters is a functional conflict.
Sealed vs closed is a misconception and nonsensical argument that needs to die. Now, ill say, if you have full 5" inlet feeding your boxes awesome, The ZAC air directors from the front are pretty sweet, But the MW sealed method: Not doing it.
Not sure why you're coming at us, but we need to defend our product and shut down your misleading comments.
Originally Posted by VictoryRoadPerformance
The open/closed argument really doesn't stand. If your intercooler circuit is functioning properly and efficiently, you just want the most air to the turbos as possible. PROVE that Open boxes with larger filters makes less power than smaller filters in closed boxes. "Hot air intakes" are on plenty of 2,000 HP race cars.
Inlet temperature matters, the higher it is the harder your intercooler system has to work. These cars heat soak like crazy and after a few pulls the entire coolant system is saturated. Additionally, the ECU lowers power levels starting at 125°F and progressively cuts more power as IATs rise. Yes there are 2000hp cars with open intakes but they are also running a myriad of other supporting components to allow this to work. For the m177 platform, we are talking about regular daily driven cars on stock ECU's where inlet temps directly affect the power of the vehicle. With that being said, there is a trade-off on filter size vs heat shielding, and we have both taken the same approach of going with a larger filter and not going with an enclosed system to get more air to the turbo. The difference is our heat shields have a bit more going on with additional walls, gasketing, and heat reflective material applied to the sheet metal.
Originally Posted by VictoryRoadPerformance
The 3" fresh air inlet on the MW sealed box is NOT feeding the filters the maximum air if they are truly sealed boxes. but being that the MW pipes are only 2.5" your fine.
What kind of comment is this? It's blatantly false, how can you say it's not feeding maximum air? I can turn around and say the same thing since your tube inlet is only a 3" opening. Our intakes are 3.5" at the filter and taper down to the max opening of the stock turbo. A bigger coupler that immediately feeds into a small compressor wheel isn't really buying you anything in terms of more airflow. All of the air ultimately flows through the same restriction at the end (turbo inlet), and by gradually tapering from a large inlet to the compressor you can ultimately create the most possible flow... you can't do that with a simple bent metal tube. Our intake has been shown to make tremendous gains and that's a direct result of the tube design that was optimized in CFD.
We also never claimed they were a fully sealed box, they are heat shields and they are there to help reduce IAT.
Originally Posted by VictoryRoadPerformance
Sealed vs closed is a misconception and nonsensical argument that needs to die. Now, ill say, if you have full 5" inlet feeding your boxes awesome, The ZAC air directors from the front are pretty sweet, But the MW sealed method: Not doing it.
Our intake uses the factory plastic ram air tubes, it's the same air that's fed to the turbos from the front of the vehicle like many of the intake offerings. Most of the air entering the engine comes through the opening between the bumper and radiator support, at which point it needs to be directed towards the filter. The ZAC air deflectors appear to be positioned wider than the factory inlet plastic tubes, so it's not clear to me if more air is reaching the filters, but more air is definitely going toward the middle of the engine bay.
Your picture below is on a customer car who heat wrapped the tubes, not what you're offering. IR guns only detect radiation, not air temp, so we can't see the hot air floating around in the engine bay from the radiators and turbos.
Last edited by ModalWorks; Jun 19, 2022 at 12:05 PM.
Reason: missing word
Not intending to come after you specifically, I said IF you had sealed boxes. If you dont great, But not much point then, The air with least resistance will get pulled first, AKA maximum amount of air pulled form the engine bay possible through all the holes in your box.
Temperature is measured post Intercoolers. same as all other MB FI setups. You are new to this market so I dont expect you to understand that we have been dealing with this same "Intake temperature" conversation for years. you want to get as much air into your turbos as possible and cool it in the intercooler. The Process of compression by the turbos creates FAR more heat than the difference from the engine bay. The C63 engine bay is also designed to suck air out underneath the car from the negative pressure while moving. the engine bay is WAY WAY WAY cooler than you "think" it is while driving. yes if you compare 2 indentical intakes and the only difference is the temperature you are correct. cooler is better. but the bigger will win given the actual real world temperature differences between sealed and open. The real way to test this is with a temp gauge under the hood while driving. willing to bet you the differences in the box while ripping are negligible.
If your Boxes arent seald what is the point? You have sealing material against the hood for what? You have open holes in be box alowing hot air in the box for what? Yeah youre getting fresh cold air from the inlet tube. So are we.
Your larger filters do nothing if its sucking through a straw of an inlet tube. which is why i said no point in running a giant filter in a sealed box VS just running a panel if youre limited to the air entering through the tube.
Again most of this is pretty pointlesst to argue, All of these intakes make pretty close to the same power. Shop on Visual apearance and price.
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