tkracing

My friend owns a bodyshop and I had him spray them.

TMC M5

Baby M3:

Please excuse me for calling you a poser...

Tom

Baby ///M3

You're excused. I am going to pretend that I didn't hear this.

There are just certain individuals who remember only the "freedom of speech" portion in our constitution but not much about something else called the "freedom of expression". I've seen a lot of guys like you from other car forums.

Ironically, I think this class of people would probably be very offended when others call them a poser if they ever walk down the street with their NFL/NBA player shirts or their favorite college sweaters bearing names of the school that they didn't even attend.

But hey. Who am I to judge others? You have a CL65. You must have done a heck of a lot better than I did in either U.S. history or constitution.

Please PM me if you have further comments. This is only a picture thread for W215 owners. Not a poser thread.

Thanks.

Jon

TMC M5

Jon:

The really irony is that you have every right and freedom to put whatever misinformation on your car....and I have every right to express what I think about that misinformation....so spare me the lecture. Just because you have a right to express yourself doesn't mean you can't suffer negative consequences (in this case being called out as a poser).

I think your analogy needs to be taken a step further. If someone was wearing a pro jersey....and trying to run out on the football field/basketball court/soccer pitch as if they were that pro athelete....now that is a closer comparison.

I apologize if my calling you out offends you....but your blatant attempt to project your car as something it is not....offends me as well.

Tom

Baby ///M3

It's no problem Tom. Go ahead and express what you want. I never told you to keep silent, have I?

As a matter of fact, I've made it very clear in my previous post that if you have further comments, you can go ahead and PM me. I am not the type of person who can't take constructive criticism at all.

Mind you, other than the fact that I have yet to remove the badges on my car, there's nothing in my posts anywhere in this forum that indicates my intent to express what my car really isn't. As a matter of fact I've clearly put in my sig since day one that I have a CL500; nothing more, nothing less. Where did you get the impression that I was trying to run out to the field?

What bothers me with your comments is that people like yourself tend to have problems with others when someone who possesses a vehicle w/ a less valuable price tag badges his/her car differently. On the other hand, guys like yourself seem to have no problem with badging a SL55 for example, as a SL500. And I can bet guys like yourself will even be proud of the fact that you now have a sleeper, as opposed to a poser.

Simple logic dictates that any 5th grader who's not mentally challenged should be able to tell you what "posing" really means. Unless you're posting everywhere in the forum calling guys who debadged their cars posers, your opinions constitute nothing but prejudice.

Let's face it. No matter how you slice it, you're taking the offense based on a double standard, which allows the rich to imitate the poor and not the other way around.

Perhaps I should simply stop here in hope that you got my point, as it's not exactly that CL500 owners are poor anyway.

My point is that you own a CL65. Isn't that by itself something for you to show already? I would've been flattered to see others trying their best to imitate me for what I do or what I own.

Jon

TMC M5

You are right, CL500 owners are not poor...this has nothing to do with whether you have money or not. If a rich guy buys a fake Rolex and sports it around...he is a poser. I could care less what your signature says...if you driving your car around with that badging...you are poser (there is an exception if the car is kept in a garage, out of public view and is never shown to anyone...no posing has occurred according to the Rulebook, and you are not a poser). It all goes to the fact that your are leading the general public to believe you have something that you really don't. Please don't race anyone (at the track, on the street or where ever) with that badging...otherwise we will hear WRX, Mustangs, Corvettes threads running rampant with how they put 10 car lengths on a supercharged CL55....ugh. The CL500 is a fine vehicle...be proud of it for what it is...not pretending to be something it isn't.

Tom

Baby ///M3

Tom,

I think you've pretty much answered my points.

For all this time, I've been trying to say that if what you've just stated is truly what you believe, than I am sure you'll have the same issues (i.e. being offended) with guys who call/pretend/pose their debadged AMG cars sleepers.

On the contrary, you continue to display your discontent of an item of lesser value being elevated to something of a higher monetary status. That's obviously just your personal agenda and has nothing to do with the issue of posing.

The bottom line is, I get your point. Even though I would've thought otherwise of other CL owners if I had a CL65, I thank you for letting me know that you don't like the side badges on my car and that they offended you. But the fact remains that there's prejudice in your opinion.

Jon

TMC M5

Prejudice in my opinion? Are you really this dense? I would be offended if someone rebadged to a lesser model and tried to take advantage of someone else based on that misinformation. That too would be posing...just because the examples provided previously didn't address that...don't make assumptions or presumptions.

Tom

Baby ///M3

That's good.

I look forward to seeing you calling your fellow AMG brothers "posers" for debaging their cars and taking advantage of poor Neon SRT-4s, Mustangs, etc.

If not, then just concede to my points. Like I said you're entitled to your prejudice. There's nothing I can do about it.

Jon

JAYCL600

yes in your sig it is clear that you have your jersey on, CL500 AMG

Baby ///M3

Yes. I was making a point about some people go out of their way to mock others because they're offended by simple gestures, while they may be the ones wearing the jersey themselves.

And your point is?

Clearly I wasn't the one getting all offended by it.

Jon

JAYCL600

that youre a poser

Baby ///M3

I noticed that both of you are from the same town.

There's no point to repeat what's been said.

And frankly, I don't think you understand a single word I wrote in my previous posts.

Jon

JAYCL600

We are from the same town, we actually know each other as well. I didnt read a single thing you said, I saw a cl500 with kompressor badges and amg in your sig, end of story.

Baby ///M3

If that's the way it's going to be. Then I rest my case.

I thought most of the Mercedes owners are better than this. I guess I wasn't completely correct.

Jon

TMC M5

And I thought a CL500 owner would be happy and proud of their very nice car...a would not feel the need to be a poser...

Tom

Baby ///M3

Tom,

Are we back to square one again?

If you really have this unstoppable urge to point out that I am a poser, then you might have been successful to get others to join you to mock me. But seriously, if what you did really made you feel better, I would rather be a poser than someone in your position.

Jon

TMC M5

Believe me...I did not recruit anyone to "mock" you. If this topic were posted on a more active thread you would have people coming out of the woodwork condemning what you have done as guess what....posing. I challenge you to post a thread in an active forum such as the E55 and complain about how harsh I am...and that you would hope better from MB owners. I assure you...an overwhelming negative response would be heading your way. You would rationalize it by saying it was a "vast right wing conspiracy" created only by my recruiting efforts. Then again you are looking at things from the perspective of a poser....so what you think is irrelevant.

Tom

Baby ///M3

Why should I do what you suggested? What do I have to prove to your challenges?

Should you accept my challenge to draft a brief concerning the constitutionality of one's right under the 1st amendment as an opposing counsel?

This is a W215 picture section and I only wanted to share pictures of my car. Why are you making this so difficult?

The whole point of our conversation is me trying my best to exercise patience and to rationalize with you that both of us have differences. And given that you have already made your point, what else is there for us to say?

Mind you, if you had based your entire discussion with me on the fact that I was the one who actively posted in the AMG forum bragging and seeking for comments, then you may have a point. But the problem is, I wasn't and I am not.

Personally, I am not the type who believes that just because others are laughing at an individual, I should do the same as well. I am sure you must know that there is something that's within all of us that prevents us from formulating our biased judgment and opinion of others, and that's called character. Isn't it?

Jon

TMC M5

My challenge was somewhat rhetorical....although if you think that my "biased" point of view is isolated, please do test it for yourself (if you really want to know the harsh truth).

I probably would have never noticed your posing if you hadn't clearly identified it in your post (somewhat respectable). My original response was simple and to the point. We are now down this road because of your misguided Constitutional lecture and rationalization. I have every right to respond...just as you have every right to have and express your opinion.

Getting back to your point of changing the badging to a "lesser" model. I have only seen that done once...years ago on an M5 forum. someone took an E39 M5 and rebadged as a 528i. I thought it was a little ridiculous. Please show me where all these other rebadged people are on this forum, so I can be even-handed with my abuse.

Tom

Vendetta

Baby ///M3,

As you've reminded us, expression is among your rights. Picking your paint color, choosing your wheels, adding spoilers and such? That's expression.

Badging your vehicle to misrepresent itself as another vehicle, whether of superior or lesser performance, is in fact, posing. One who does this is called a poser. It's not meant to offend, it's just a matter of fact. You, therefore, are in fact a poser, posing your vehicle as that of another variety to those in public every time they observe your car.

Please consider these observations: a.) you requested we excuse you for the badging in your initial post, and b.) you present your signature as a mitigating factor. The first indicates that you know you have done or are doing something offensive and in need of pardon. You have a right to ask for it, just not a right to it; those whom you ask have the right to withold it. The second indicates that you prefer to be honest with us here on the forum, yet simultaneously betrays your intent to deceive the public outside the forum. So unless you've attached a streamer - like the ones you see trailing from planes over crowded beaches - bearing the true model of your car, you are posing and therefore a poser.

Regarding the removal of badges from vehicles altogether, this is not offensive to most, as it is not an active and willful misrepresentation. Instead it is merely a non-disclosure of the vehicles true nature.

I hope you'll receive my observations on the matter in the spirit of factual objectivity and good will with which they were written.

Best,
-V

TMC M5

Vendetta:

A very well written response.

Tom



Disclaimer:
TMC M5 is not related to, entered into a business or personal partnership with, met, befriended or otherwise had prior knowledge of, fellow mbworld.org member, Vendetta

Vendetta

Thank you, Tom.

I literally did a double-take at your disclaimer at the end of your post. I thought it was a sig (which I usually ignore)! But it's true, and reciprocal. I don't know you.

I can't get to a place in my head where up-badging a car makes any good sense at all, on any level. Similarly, I can not grasp why those that do so are so adverse to being badged (accurately, mind you) as posers themselves. If you're doing it, then it's an indisputable and undeniable (despite the attempts) FACT to be either embraced or corrected, but never denied. How can a rational mind not connect those dots? I wonder, what would qualify as "posing," indeed could there even be such a thing to someone who would not accept that this IS posing?

-V

Baby ///M3

Vendetta,

Thanks for your opinions,

I think both you and others are still missing the points I've so diligently put efforts to emphasize. While I appreciate your posts, I can't help to wonder why someone has taken such a wrong turn in following my analogies.

To make my points simple, I was never in a debate with anyone whether I was posing or not. But rather, I intended to point out whether it's appropriate for one (an AMG owner per se) to exercise double standard when he judges another person's right to expression.

Tom might have made himself appear to be civil in this discussion. He in fact, has been picking on me all along since he first made his comments. Simple logic dictates that for someone who's been a member on this forum since 2002 with less than 200 posts to suddenly devote more than 10% of his posts with me, he must either is truly offended by my pictures (as Tom himself admits) or that he's simply biased.

Just to let things slide, I've decided not to respond to Tom's last post. But since you brought it back from dead again, I urge you to re-read my posts again in order to fully comprehend the various analogies I have raised.

It appears rather strange to me as to why Tom has so much time to express his dissatisfaction with my car. Based on his low post counts, I sure as heck don't see him put forth any efforts to engage in such a "jovial conversation" with any other AMG owners who have debadged their cars. Correct?

To point out your observations... In this instance my requesting to be excused is not an admission of guilt or my wish to be pardoned. I have already stated that there's a right for one to expression and therefore, there's nothing to be pardoned of. As you would note in all my posts, I frequently use words such as "Thanks in advance," as a polite gesture. In this thread, I intended only to be excused because I did not want to be harassed by AMG owners. It's clearly that I have failed miserably.

As for my own representation, I have not, and did not use my signature to mitigate anything. The fact remains that I have never represented to anyone here on MBWorld that I own a CL55. It's either Tom or his friend from Maryland who made the inference of my intent based on my signature.

Finally, just to point out your differentiation regarding one's willful intent to misrepresent and non-disclosure. Since we're not discussing a tort case in law school, in my opinion these two acts mean the same thing for our purpose. You have even acknowledged yourself that both forms of actions constitute an act of posing. If that's the case, unless I see Tom starting to pick on other AMG owners for debading their cars, your own words actually further justify the fact that I was the one who's been picked on throughout this thread.

For once, I agree with your thoughts because they further led me to believe that bias and prejudice do exist.

Jon

Baby ///M3

That would be the easiest question for me to answer.

I have been on various car forums since the internet's existence and naturally, I have seen people making horrible comments about another person's cars for years and years.

Obviously, the word posing is no stranger to me. If you wish, you may interpret my leaving the badges on my car as an act of protest against the ignorant double standard in the minds of some AMG owners.

As long as this prejudice remain, I will adamantly defend this Constitutionally derived right not just for posers, but for everyone else as well.

Regarding your misunderstanding about my thoughts on the definition of posing, I believe it has been sufficiently addressed in my previous post.

Jon