ABC Problem
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From: West Plam Beach, FL
'16 S550 Coupe, '11 Lexus LS460, '02 CL500 (SOLD)
ABC Problem
I originally responded to a thread entitled "Damn ABC Light ...." by mjr24 dated 6/9/5 regarding an ABC problem with my '02 CL500. The problem is the front drops (evenly) after the car sits 2 to 3 weeks. When you go to start it, a warning message comes up saying, do not drive vehicle, etc. However, after starting, the front end rises and all is well. I took it in for service and MB said "front valve block for ABC leaking internally" so they replaced the valve and flushed the system. They supposedly discussed the problem with the main office while working on the car. Anyway, after getting the car back, I had it sit for another couple of weeks and, not supprisingly, the front dropped again.
At this point, I'm undecided about taking it in again since I'm unsure they can fix it and hate going to the dealer anyway. In reality, if I used the car more I wouldn't even know the problem existed. What bothers me is whether or not this could get worse or cause other ABC problems down the road. On the other hand, if this is the only problem (if it is a problem) I'll have with the ABC, I couldn't care less.
I have the original factory warranty until November and also have the extended plan for 3 more years thru MB. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this and what they suggest.
At this point, I'm undecided about taking it in again since I'm unsure they can fix it and hate going to the dealer anyway. In reality, if I used the car more I wouldn't even know the problem existed. What bothers me is whether or not this could get worse or cause other ABC problems down the road. On the other hand, if this is the only problem (if it is a problem) I'll have with the ABC, I couldn't care less.
I have the original factory warranty until November and also have the extended plan for 3 more years thru MB. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this and what they suggest.
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I suggest you take it in while you are under the factory warranty and get it resolved. This is a serious issue, and can be costly. Something is definitely not right, and I would not be surprised if it gets worse over time. At the very least you need to create a documented history of the car being in for this problem in case something goes wrong later and they give you grief that you are out of warranty. I'd take it in again. I would not just ignore it because its OK most of the time. Imagine if you decide to sell the car for any reason and it has this issue....
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Mine does it
I also posted a reply to the original post since my right front (only) does exactly what you describe. I had discussed it at length too at mercedesforum.com and got advise to change the oil and filter and "work" the system; which I did to no avail. I then discussed it with my dealer, Rallye, who suggested it was as you said, a leaking internal valve. I brought it in, they did the ABC recall work (which really didn't apply to my VIN) and said it "fixed" the problem. 2 weeks of non-use later, same thing happened. It's going in again tomorrow morning to see about replacing that leaking valve, I hope. If it happens again, I'll write to the Montvale, NJ office and see what they say.
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'16 S550 Coupe, '11 Lexus LS460, '02 CL500 (SOLD)
Originally Posted by techbike
I also posted a reply to the original post since my right front (only) does exactly what you describe. I had discussed it at length too at mercedesforum.com and got advise to change the oil and filter and "work" the system; which I did to no avail. I then discussed it with my dealer, Rallye, who suggested it was as you said, a leaking internal valve. I brought it in, they did the ABC recall work (which really didn't apply to my VIN) and said it "fixed" the problem. 2 weeks of non-use later, same thing happened. It's going in again tomorrow morning to see about replacing that leaking valve, I hope. If it happens again, I'll write to the Montvale, NJ office and see what they say.
My CL has been a pita in the year and a half that I've owned it. It seems like it's one thing after another. Actually, I'm kind of sorry I bought it. In any event, I'll keep you updated via email and perhaps you could do the same. Good luck. Jud
Last edited by Jud Chapin; Sep 13, 2005 at 08:34 PM.
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Droop Update
My SA informed me today that they need to keep the car until Monday. After my insistence on replacing the RH internal ABC valve, they decided to consult with the top service honchos in Montvale and the consensus was to replace both front shock absorbers and struts. Apparently, this is where the leakage occurs internally; in the valving. While there, they found some additional suspension parts that needed replacing like lower arms, ball joints, and bushings, and will replace them. They had to call in an adjuster from my extended warranty carrier for approval as the job is over $5000. I just need to pay my $100 deductible and for the Hunter wheel alignment, another $125. (I paid $3900 for a 48/48 policy). I guess I've gotten my money's worth?
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'16 S550 Coupe, '11 Lexus LS460, '02 CL500 (SOLD)
Well, sounds like you are on the right track. I, too, bought the extended warranty (Starmark through MB) that ran me about $2800 for 3 additional years or 100k miles.
I talked to the svc. mgr. today re my problem (he never called me back from Tues.) and set up an appointment for next Tues. He appolgized for not getting it right the first time and said they'd re-evaluate the ABC. We'll see what happens and I'll keep you posted. I hope they get yours right.
Jud
I talked to the svc. mgr. today re my problem (he never called me back from Tues.) and set up an appointment for next Tues. He appolgized for not getting it right the first time and said they'd re-evaluate the ABC. We'll see what happens and I'll keep you posted. I hope they get yours right.
Jud
Last edited by Jud Chapin; Sep 16, 2005 at 03:20 AM.
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From: LI, New York
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Tell him what Rallye is doing to my CL...
I hope so too but they know me there. I've bought 7 cars from them and referred 3 more. I've also complained about service to the home office a couple of years ago and they've acknowleged it.
Is the Starmark bumper to bumper?
Is the Starmark bumper to bumper?
Originally Posted by Jud Chapin
Well, sounds like you are on the right track. I, too, bought the extended warranty (Starmark through MB) that ran me about $2800 for 3 additional years or 100k miles.
I talked to the svc. mgr. today re my problem (he never called me back from Tues.) and set up an appointment for next Tues. He appolgized for not getting it right the first time and said they'd re-evaluate the ABC. We'll see what happens and I'll keep you posted. I hope they get yours right.
Jud
I talked to the svc. mgr. today re my problem (he never called me back from Tues.) and set up an appointment for next Tues. He appolgized for not getting it right the first time and said they'd re-evaluate the ABC. We'll see what happens and I'll keep you posted. I hope they get yours right.
Jud
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Thread Starter
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From: West Plam Beach, FL
'16 S550 Coupe, '11 Lexus LS460, '02 CL500 (SOLD)
Originally Posted by techbike
I hope so too but they know me there. I've bought 7 cars from them and referred 3 more. I've also complained about service to the home office a couple of years ago and they've acknowleged it.
Is the Starmark bumper to bumper?
Is the Starmark bumper to bumper?
Interestingly, I have a brother-in-law who has I believe a '95 S500. When his a/c went out several years ago after his warranty had expired, he was presented a bill for about $3000 from MB. He then spoke to someone higher up complaining that the part shouldn't have gone out so soon. They ended up adjusting the bill to about $1200. I'm not sure if this type of thing still goes on.
Anyway, it sounds like you've got good coverage with your plan. Let us know how you make out. I go in Tuesday with my problem and I'll keep you posted.
Jud
Last edited by Jud Chapin; Sep 16, 2005 at 04:17 PM.
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Well, I picked up my car this pm and the bottom line is, according to MB, nothing is wrong with the ABC system. They went through everything again and found nothing amiss, including no fault codes. There is a svc. bulletin out which calls for replacing a valve and flushing the system which they did on my previous visit. The shop foreman also told me that he has seen new untitled MB's on the lot where the fronts have dropped after sitting for some time.
I guess I'm not totally surprised by this as I mentioned in my original post that I wasn't sure this was a problem. I'm sure if they felt that any parts needed replacing, they would have done it. As an example, I told them about an intermittent problem I was having with my navigation system and they replaced the entire unit without question. Anyhow, I now have a record of this with MB and that plus my Starmark warranty should take care of any ABC problems that arise for a while.
I guess I'm not totally surprised by this as I mentioned in my original post that I wasn't sure this was a problem. I'm sure if they felt that any parts needed replacing, they would have done it. As an example, I told them about an intermittent problem I was having with my navigation system and they replaced the entire unit without question. Anyhow, I now have a record of this with MB and that plus my Starmark warranty should take care of any ABC problems that arise for a while.
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New struts for $5000
I inspected my CL after I got it back from the dealer and saw that both front shocks, lower arms and most bushings for both sides have been replaced. The final bill came to just under $5000 and all but $225 was covered by my extended warranty. (that was the deductible and the wheel alignment)
As soon as I got home, the SRS light came on; which turned out to be a passenger belt buckle that now cost me $400; $80 for the part, and the balance labor for R/R seat. The SRS is NOT covered by my warranty.
My car sat for 2 days and has not drooped, I'm leaving it for 2 weeks, we'll see.
As soon as I got home, the SRS light came on; which turned out to be a passenger belt buckle that now cost me $400; $80 for the part, and the balance labor for R/R seat. The SRS is NOT covered by my warranty.
My car sat for 2 days and has not drooped, I'm leaving it for 2 weeks, we'll see.
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Originally Posted by Jud Chapin
Well, I picked up my car this pm and the bottom line is, according to MB, nothing is wrong with the ABC system. They went through everything again and found nothing amiss, including no fault codes. There is a svc. bulletin out which calls for replacing a valve and flushing the system which they did on my previous visit. The shop foreman also told me that he has seen new untitled MB's on the lot where the fronts have dropped after sitting for some time.
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My car had no faults on Star Diagnostics either...
Originally Posted by Jud Chapin
Well, I picked up my car this pm and the bottom line is, according to MB, nothing is wrong with the ABC system...
I guess I'm not totally surprised by this as I mentioned in my original post that I wasn't sure this was a problem....
I guess I'm not totally surprised by this as I mentioned in my original post that I wasn't sure this was a problem....
I think it is no big deal on the short term but it may get worse over time.
Just my 2c.
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'16 S550 Coupe, '11 Lexus LS460, '02 CL500 (SOLD)
I spoke with MB Customer Service in NJ today and the bottom line is that they support their MB dealers on any issues. The only thing they did was email the Reg. Mgr. with a copy to the Svc. Mgr. at my dealer indicating my concern. They also said that I will not be receiving a call from the reg. guy. They will have a tech call me back but I don't expect any answers on that front.
As far as the problem itself, the only thing I've seen on the various MB forums pertaining to a suspension drop is when the vehicle slumps to one side. And for this problem, there is a svc. bulletin. My car, however, drops evenly. Based on this, as well as the fact that my dealer loves to replace parts under warranty and bill MB, I'm not thoroughly convinced it is a problem.
In any event, if anyone knows of a way to get someone higher up at MB that can perhaps help with this, I'd appreciate it.
As far as the problem itself, the only thing I've seen on the various MB forums pertaining to a suspension drop is when the vehicle slumps to one side. And for this problem, there is a svc. bulletin. My car, however, drops evenly. Based on this, as well as the fact that my dealer loves to replace parts under warranty and bill MB, I'm not thoroughly convinced it is a problem.
In any event, if anyone knows of a way to get someone higher up at MB that can perhaps help with this, I'd appreciate it.
Last edited by Jud Chapin; Sep 27, 2005 at 05:12 PM.
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For what it's worth, the tech at MB returned my call and after describing my problem to him, he stated that these cars with ABC will drop an inch or more after sitting awhile and that it is considered normal. (This is the third MB tech that has told me this, and it is also mentioned in their svc. bulletin). He also suggested that I take the car in and have it checked out. I told him I had done that and he replied that he then wouldn't worry about it. In any event, if the car were droping on just one side, I'd be more concerned. Having the Starmark warranty also eases my mind.
Last edited by Jud Chapin; Sep 27, 2005 at 05:20 PM.
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CL droop update...
Well, I finally was able to get away and check my CL after laying it up 10 days. It appears that the expen$ive repair that was done DID fix my problem. The car is perfectly normal, no droop, after sitting in the same spot (on the ramps of my lift) for 10 days. I also put the car up on the lift and checked. Everything's OK, those new air shocks ($900 each!) look nice but should probably have gold sleeves at that price.
So, Jud, I still stand by my prognosis that drooping front ends on a CL is NOT normal. I haven't started or moved the car so I'll check again next week.
So, Jud, I still stand by my prognosis that drooping front ends on a CL is NOT normal. I haven't started or moved the car so I'll check again next week.
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Originally Posted by techbike
Well, I finally was able to get away and check my CL after laying it up 10 days. It appears that the expen$ive repair that was done DID fix my problem. The car is perfectly normal, no droop, after sitting in the same spot (on the ramps of my lift) for 10 days. I also put the car up on the lift and checked. Everything's OK, those new air shocks ($900 each!) look nice but should probably have gold sleeves at that price.
So, Jud, I still stand by my prognosis that drooping front ends on a CL is NOT normal. I haven't started or moved the car so I'll check again next week.
So, Jud, I still stand by my prognosis that drooping front ends on a CL is NOT normal. I haven't started or moved the car so I'll check again next week.
I might also add that I've posted threads regarding this situation, an EVEN DROP OF THE FRONT END, on a couple of MB techs sites and received no meaningful responses. The only thing that comes up is the drop to one side for which there is a service bulletin. My dealer performed the fix suggested in the bulletin (replacement of a valve and system flush) while advising it probably didn't apply. I've also mentioned previously that 3 MB techs from different locations and the service bulletin advise that a drop after an extended sit is considered normal.
In any event, if something does show up in the near future, since my factory warranty runs out at the end of this month, the svc. mgr. has assured me that they would consult MB about its extention. I also have Starmark which covers all major components of the ABC system for the next three years/75,000 miles.
BTW, I'm glad your issue is resolved, Techbike, and thanks for your input.
Last edited by Jud Chapin; Oct 8, 2005 at 10:17 AM.
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Just watchin out for ya.
Don't mean to argue and beat this to death but maybe the difference is because Starmark is financed by Mercedes Benz and my warranty is by another independent financial group. Not worth the $5700 effort to spend their own money? Sort of taking money from the left pocket to fill the right with Starmark? My dealer was very happy to perform the "repair" and had the adjuster from my warranty company at the shop in an hour.
Anyway, would you have the SB# for the recall? I'm going to request a transcript from Montvale to see for myself as I don't understand how a drooping front end could be normal when most other CLs don't do it.
Anyway, would you have the SB# for the recall? I'm going to request a transcript from Montvale to see for myself as I don't understand how a drooping front end could be normal when most other CLs don't do it.
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'16 S550 Coupe, '11 Lexus LS460, '02 CL500 (SOLD)
Originally Posted by techbike
Don't mean to argue and beat this to death but maybe the difference is because Starmark is financed by Mercedes Benz and my warranty is by another independent financial group. Not worth the $5700 effort to spend their own money? Sort of taking money from the left pocket to fill the right with Starmark? My dealer was very happy to perform the "repair" and had the adjuster from my warranty company at the shop in an hour.
Anyway, would you have the SB# for the recall? I'm going to request a transcript from Montvale to see for myself as I don't understand how a drooping front end could be normal when most other CLs don't do it.
Anyway, would you have the SB# for the recall? I'm going to request a transcript from Montvale to see for myself as I don't understand how a drooping front end could be normal when most other CLs don't do it.
AS for the SB, it is Order No. P-B-32.50/09, dated 12/5/01. It pertains to Models 215 and 220, with ABC (code 487) with "irregular level control/vehicle slumps to one side". Hopes this helps.
