saintz

Thanks slonar, that actually proves it. But am I seeing correctly that the AMG is larger, but still only a 4 piston? In that case, I would assume the actual braking power is similar, but the AMG is more fade resistant. Unless the pad is larger and that makes a difference.

slonar21

AMG have 8 pistons, and the rotors are much larger, you need at least 18 inch wheels, as for the 500 and 600 fit in 16"

(At least I am pretty sure about this)

I have been looking around for used CL55 calipers for my 600, it's the only thing the AMG has over the 600.

BTW, the rear calipers seem the same on all CL models, but I think the AMG have crossed drilled rotors.

saintz

I tried to find comparative 60-0 times for both models and couldn't. I am curious how much the larger calibers help in feet of stopping distance. Generally, on the street, brakes make little difference. Most cars have stronger brakes than tires, meaning adding larger brakes doesn't help unless you also add much stickier tires to put that power down. On the track, larger brakes resist fade, but I doubt a lot of people track a CL, so I'm curious what type of single stop difference there is.

N.cali CL55club

There! >saint picture speaks for itself, now do you admit you're wrong? Haha

Becks Imports

Bingo. 99.9% of people that upgrade their calipers and/or rotors do it for looks.

Once you can activate the ABS, you have enough braking power to lock the wheels. Bigger brakes do nothing more for stopping distances except in these three circumstances:

1. The brakes fade while being held at maximum braking power and let the wheels unlock and start to roll again (almost never happens). Then bigger swept area will help as it can avoid that problem.

2. You want maximum braking power again and again, like on a track. Even good stock brakes will fade after repeated use, so bigger brakes will help here too.

3. The brake bias is wrong on the stock setup, allowing too much bias forward or rearward, and bigger brakes correct that issue. Then your stopping distances can shorten.

Bruce

SLCL

People have been debating about 55 vs. 600 but almost everyone who own these cars knows the 600 has a "regular" brake.

The 600 has the same brake as the 500 (on W215 that is). I believe MB use the front brake of the 600 for the rear of the 65 - I need to confirm this sentence.

The front brakes of the W215/220 600 are very popular in MB line up as they are used on almost all of the modern 500 models as well as the 32 (slk32, c32 with just a diffrent labels). Those brakes are actually brembos with mercedes or amg logos.

I actually have been dealing with brakes for years (my SL500 had brake noise for about 5-6 years before I finally able to fix it)

I tried to upload the brake pictures but this site sucks. I would fail me 75% when uploading pictures for some reason.

You can check on ebay, autotrader ... anywhere that sells Mercedes.

saintz

This is where the confusion came from. The discussion I'd seen suggested that both were Brembos, and both could hence be the same. But the pictures clearly suggest they are different, even if both are Brembo.

SLCL

I don't see why there was a confusion. Both were Brembos do not mean they were the same. Brembo doesn't make just one size of brake, do they? Do people get confuse that the SLS and the C Mercedes are the same because they are both Mercedes?

saintz

Other people have commented that they are rebranded and the same. I have not once (until now) seen pictures to prove one way or the other. That's why I asked for evidence.

albertchampion

well, let's see. on the 215 chassis[2005-2006], the claim is that 194 cl65amg's were either manufactured or sold into north america.

i can find no source for the cl600 production figures. my friend john olson reports that m-b has been hiding these numbers since a lawsuit concerning M series bimmers exclusivity claims was settled in the interest of the plaintiff[s] in 2004.

i have not been a fan of benz v12's since the disastrous experiences with them in the 140 chassis. but, by 2005-2006 were these v12's better sorted out?

i ask this because i have been thinking of finishing out my sacco collection with the last of his design team's most elegant coupe, the 215. i have the naturally-aspirated cl500, and the supercharged cl55amg. and i am thinking of a cl600 or a cl65amg.

what are the thoughts of 215 aficionados?

also, to renew an old thread, today, what protective plastics are thought to be the best?

i have 3m clear bra installed on cl500 for over a year. cayenne turbo for almost a year. and cl55amg for 5 months. i am pleased to date.

but, i encounter claims that venture shield is superior to the current 3m product.

thoughts?

albertchampion

and here is a contemporary market valuation...

a 2006 cl600 with 28.5k miles. 1 owner. cpo'ed. in manhattan. all options but sat radio. $40k.

a 2004 cl600 with 30k miles. 1 owner. cpo'ed. from california. no options. $35k

a 2005 cl65amg with 18k miles. 1 owner. cpo'ed. from california. no options. $60k

it would appear as if amg variants carry a higher price tag.

all these cars are the same color combo.

as my dealer service guys say, don't touch any car that lived on the island of manhattan.

albertchampion

here is another interesting issue....

have any of you ever seen an amg 215 where the handcrafted signature block has been removed?

why would that be, do you think?

1. removed by a previous owner for souvenir purposes?

2. a replacement engine?

3. any other reasons?

i ask because i have inspected two used cl65amg's recently where this signature block is missing. no explanations.

is there a way to identify engine #'s to vin #'s?

carfax says that cars are clean. but i am surprised by the absence of this signature block.

saintz

The V12 issues were pretty much eliminated in 2003. The two big issues that were V12 specific were the leaking oil cooler (design fixed for 2003) and issues related to cylinder deactivation (eliminated for 2003).

If you can get the 65, go for it. If not, the 600 will suffice. You could sell the 55 and 500 and just get a 65 and be done.

If 3M is not the best, I would assume it's close enough.

Forgoten214

Quick question, Is the W215 smaller than the W220 for headroom and leg room? If so how much smaller?

I notice a big difference between W216 and W221 not sure about the older generations. I'd like to pick up a W215 CL but I'm not sure if the headroom will be sufficient. I'm 6'6.

saintz

Yes, much different. Rear leg room in the W215 seems worse that in my wife's W204 C class.

For headroom, I notice it most when trying to lean out the window at an ATM. Otherwise, the headroom is sufficient for me. My brother is 6'2" and didn't have a problem, but at your height, the sedan roofline might be more comfortable. Especially if you ever ride in the back.

Star500E

In 2003, the 600 actually got a new motor. That twin turbo beast (sorry, but it is) is called M275 (M285 in the AMG) and is a 5.5L. The model before it is called M137 and displaced 5.8L.

I had a 2001 Designo Silver CL600 which never gave me a lick of trouble at all. Perhaps it's inconceivable, but that car needed oil and spark plugs in the 80k I owned it (sold w/ ~160k on it). GREAT car. I would not write off the early 600s at all, esp because I routinely got an indicated 23-24 mpg on the freeway. That motor sounds REALLY cool when you hit the throttle too. It has the power of the 5.4L AMG M113 V8 with the economy of the 5.0L M113 and the smoothness only a V12 can produce. Cylinder deactivation is all but imperceptible except to anyone crazy enough to be such close attention to it.

The other problem with 600s is doing work on them is a bear. You have to have special tools to do spark plugs, in order to remove the ignition coils. That, and it requires and entire bloody afternoon to complete.

More common is the CL500 and CL55, the later of which has similar power as the 600 without the added heft and complexity of that V12. They're a little cheaper as a result.

AMGs are pricey to own. For some inexplicable reason (their motors are derivatives of standard motors and body work is shared with sportline models) everything is more costly.

drabux

Just to return to the caliper debate, in the UK at least, W215 and w220 600 cars all came with 8 piston calipers. I can take photos of my stock '04 S600 to prove. Seems odd that MB would cut this for the US market.

Alanb

mrlien

Brake size needed for a car is a result of the weight of the car and the speed the car
will do. So if the cl600 is limited to 130 mph in the US it will require smaller brakes than
the same car in europe where it is limited to 155 mph.

Although I have no idea whatsoever about the brake type or size on either the cl600 or the cl 55.

drabux

Seems like an improbable reason to me. US import cars are very, very often under-spec'd compared to European models and the lower spec often has nothing to do with performance. Virtually all UK S600 Mercs came with distronic, rear tables, all came with TV and many with fridges (fridges couldn't even spec'd on US cars). It's a similar story with BMWs, Fords and Nissans.

2014CL600

All cars coming into the US or made in the US except for Porsche are limited to 155 mph. That is an arbitrary speed the government has set the limits too but can be gotten around through an ECM modification. The CL 65 has the LARGER brakes versus the 55 and 600 and 500 models. They are MASSIVE to say the least. I just talked with my parts man at MBZ and the CL 600 uses a different pad than the 500, I didn't think to ask if the CL 55 might use the same pad as the 600 but unless I'm sure I won't comment on it..

As for personal tastes. I had the choice of ordering a 65 or 600 and for my tastes I just didn't like what the AMG offered as far as interior seat patterns, steering wheel choice and exhaust noise. I personally wanted the wood and leather steering wheel and the seat sew pattern of the AC/seats. It was just my preference. My cars optioned out at just over 150K with everything I ordered and the difference wasn't but 19k. I didn't care about the money, I did care about the other subtle touches that the CL 600 had over the CL 65. The sound of the 65 was bothersome to my ears, so I just went ahead with the CL 600. I now found that RennTech has an upgrade that can churn out more HP than the 65 and I can have all I want with the subtle touches of the 600.

I find the 65 to be just as beautiful and basically visually the same but my ears really hurt with that low note and it just didn't have the sound becoming of a Mercedes.

For me the 600 was the choice for me. I do not want to be rude to anyone who would rather have a 65 over a 600. Its all a matter of what you personally like, just as color choice is.

I would never even have thought of a CL 55 because it isn't even in the same class as a 600 or 65. The interior is still MB tech (except for the seats) and the power isn't the same power curve as the 600, plus again the exhaust wasnt pleasing to my ear (which has been mentioned in several auto magazines). Even though the BHP is rated the same the 600 is faster and can reach the 1/4 mile in a shorter time without modifications. Plus you can super tune the 600 to leave a 55 in the dust. The 600 if unleashed has much more torque and is just an overall finer car. What I wish they had actually done was to make the CL 600 and CL 65, Super Charged over Turbo Charged. Two Superchargers would have made these cars like rocket ships. I'm almost sure it would have also required a lot more suspension upgrades as well as rear end upgrades.

These are just my opinions on this subject, so please if I have offended anyone it was not my intension.

BlownV8

That is incorrect. There is no US or German legislaton that sets a top speed of 155 MPH. It was a gentleman's agreement between BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, and Mercedes. The manufacturers have already been making exceptions to the limits and they may soon be a memory.

http://www.autoblog.com/2005/07/14/m...55-mph-limits/

1995E320Cab

You should REALLY check out SPEEDRIVEN for your V12TT upgrades !!



.

2014CL600

I did research this more and you are correct. There is no law on the limitations for speed but the law is that the limit of the speed of the car has to do with the speed rating of the tire that comes as original equipment on that particular application. For example, if the car comes with for example a "S" rated tire the top speed of the car is set at what the capability of the tire is. They are talking about removing the speed limiters because tires are becoming more and more capable of doing higher speeds without any failures. Im sure it also has to do with the ability of the car as well. Thank you for pointing this out. I like to be informed before making incorrect statements.

BlownV8

You're welcome. We are here to share knowledge and experiences.

Merzman

Not to beat a dead horse, but the 2001-2002 CL600 have cylinder unloading. V-12 and L6s all are dynamically balanced engines. So, the V-12 can unload 6 cyls and stay balanced and smooth. This was a feature on the 2001 & 2002. Driving at 55-60, steady, engine unloads and the car gets an amazing 25 mpg. Not bad for 365 hp engine. Still gulps fuel at idle for some reason. Turn it off for long trains.

In the last year, I've replaced the ABC pump, brakes, rotors, tires, coil pack, engine wiring harness, 2 O2 sensors, headlight wiring harnesses, sound amplifier, rebuilt cylinder decompress pump, and now am repairing broken wires in the driver door accordion. Needs tail light refurbish, throwing light codes. Total cost about $7,000 using local shops. Only paid $8500 for it at auction. Other than that, it's been very reliable. Lot of this was deferred maintenance. Has 91k. Problem for these Chrysler Benzes is that the engineering was cheapened with materials American style. All the wiring issues are due to cheap material specs. A rational person would not have stuck fuse boxes in every nook and cranny. Still, car will do 120 in a blink without even breathing hard. It is a super road car and will leave most in the dust.