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So it's better to have a rear sway bar but not critical. I get it that with a sway bar fitted the springs can be set a bit softer. I'm going to get on eBay and start looking for parts. Thanks for the information.
it's better to have the rear sway bar but it's not as important and usefull as the front
and not sure that you get it on without lowering the subframe
I didn't have time yet for doing that
good luck !
I'm gathering parts now both front and rear. I will fit the front and see how it rides. If it's ok the rear sway will be a winter job in the garage.
I am going to have to change the pump as my abc pump is now noisey . Does a w220 steering pump fit ok? I expect I need brackets as well. Is the pulley size the same or will I need different belt.
Thanks for all your help. Cheers
I'm gathering parts now both front and rear. I will fit the front and see how it rides. If it's ok the rear sway will be a winter job in the garage.
I am going to have to change the pump as my abc pump is now noisey . Does a w220 steering pump fit ok? I expect I need brackets as well. Is the pulley size the same or will I need different belt.
Thanks for all your help. Cheers
well, I bought the same tandem but finally left the old one because it looked like such a p**n in the a** to get that pump out
just not interested
sold the new pump
but if your's is noisy, you have no choise I guess
make sure what pump fits I have no idea for sure but i've seen posts
good luck
What I have got is a bit of low speed noise from the rear struts like you can hear them going up & down ( a light rattle) it stops above 45mph. I've had both back coilovers out & cant see anything that would cause it.
The decommissioned steel ABC lines are not attached to the valve blocks, accumulators, and rubber hoses. This allows for them to bounce up and down, hitting the floor
boards.
Last edited by principledchiro; 05-26-2017 at 06:59 AM.
Yes. Simply take down the under-body plastic cover, unscrew the clamps that hold the steel lines to the floor boards, then remove all the ABC steel lines, etc.
Yes. Simply take down the under-body plastic cover, unscrew the clamps that hold the steel lines to the floor boards, then remove all the ABC steel lines, etc.
I loved cutting all that abc crap off the car
+ have plenty space for new lines to the intercooler ICEBOX I'm going to mount in the trunk
Just updating this threat
forgot this
The S600 arms for sway bar come with bigger holes for bolts
the bolts they request are 16 mm
w215 bolts are 14
so or you make your sub frame holes bigger and buy 16mm bolts from MB
or you find a piece of stainless tube, that fits perfect and center your bolt, no play
of course, hammer them in the arms before you fit them
remember that these bolts just center the arm, the arms do not move, the rubber does, so no real friction
My car is lowered reasonably to not touch as on picture
for this setting and with Yellowspeed coils, do not worry, use ONLY tthe center position for all 4 adjustable arms
this has been tested and the car camber/caster is like MB specs for CL65 AMG, so fine for all other W215's
this is another thing, due to the lower coil spring attachment change (more outside on the S600 version for Sway Bar)
so more stress
this part might be dead earlier then normal
I started getting an noise when turning steering and found that with microphones listening
It is not something 100% sure as I buy aftermarket arms, the arm I had might have been crap
just that you know where to search if you get noise
I replaced both arms and noise is gone
Just updating this threat
forgot this
The S600 arms for sway bar come with bigger holes for bolts
the bolts they request are 16 mm
w215 bolts are 14
so or you make your sub frame holes bigger and buy 16mm bolts from MB
or you find a piece of stainless tube, that fits perfect and center your bolt, no play
of course, hammer them in the arms before you fit them
remember that these bolts just center the arm, the arms do not move, the rubber does, so no real friction
My car is lowered reasonably to not touch as on picture
for this setting and with Yellowspeed coils, do not worry, use ONLY tthe center position for all 4 adjustable arms
this has been tested and the car camber/caster is like MB specs for CL65 AMG, so fine for all other W215's
this is another thing, due to the lower coil spring attachment change (more outside on the S600 version for Sway Bar)
so more stress
this part might be dead earlier then normal
I started getting an noise when turning steering and found that with microphones listening
It is not something 100% sure as I buy aftermarket arms, the arm I had might have been crap
just that you know where to search if you get noise
I replaced both arms and noise is gone
Pmercury ,the 16 mm bolts are for the front sub-frame or the rear sub-frame arms?,remember my car is a CL500, do you encounter that problem when you was installing the front sway bar?
bar
Just updating this threat
forgot this
The S600 arms for sway bar come with bigger holes for bolts
the bolts they request are 16 mm
w215 bolts are 14
so or you make your sub frame holes bigger and buy 16mm bolts from MB
or you find a piece of stainless tube, that fits perfect and center your bolt, no play
of course, hammer them in the arms before you fit them
remember that these bolts just center the arm, the arms do not move, the rubber does, so no real friction
My car is lowered reasonably to not touch as on picture
for this setting and with Yellowspeed coils, do not worry, use ONLY tthe center position for all 4 adjustable arms
this has been tested and the car camber/caster is like MB specs for CL65 AMG, so fine for all other W215's
this is another thing, due to the lower coil spring attachment change (more outside on the S600 version for Sway Bar)
so more stress
this part might be dead earlier then normal
I started getting an noise when turning steering and found that with microphones listening
It is not something 100% sure as I buy aftermarket arms, the arm I had might have been crap
just that you know where to search if you get noise
I replaced both arms and noise is gone
Pmercury ,the 16 mm bolts are for the front sub-frame or the rear sub-frame arms?,remember my car is a CL500, do you encounter that problem when you was installing the front sway bar?
bar
great thread. really glad to see sway bars easily fitted to a w215!
quite annoyed that i just bought new control arms, and didn't get the w220 control arms....oh well, maybe i'll replace with w220 control arms when I replace my strutmasters with the yellowspeed or cieka coilovers
So, I don't have much time
I have been driving without torsion bars for a while with Yellow coil-over suspension
it was ok, not bad at all, but I wanted to make it better
THIS IS FOR A 2003 CL600
I am saying this because on my subframe, I had the place to bolt on the torsion bar ready on my subframe
all you need is to remove the ABC crap on those two locations and you can bolt on the fantastic sway bar from a W220
The ride will be 95% as good as ABC
here pictures and part list
good luck
Control Arms left and right
A2203308907
A2203309007
many aftermarket company's make these, don't be silly and buy them from mercedes
second hand complete torsion bar
A2203232565
Bushing Brackets x2 (and you need the two bolts)
A2203230040
result:
remarks:
don't forget to buy the two bolts and nuts
it looks difficult to get behind the subframe to hold the nuts but it isn't
your fingers will go there
buy the sway bar second hand from ebay
hundreds there !
Also, the replacement lower arms have the lower end of the springs connecting more outside, that increases the firmness of the coil-overs !
you won't regret this !
Ok, I purchased most of the parts to complete this analog conversion (new W220 steering pump, fancy thrust arms and other connectors from FCP), used front and rear S500 sway bars from EBay (which I powder-coated); Even a used CL 600 engine (which I mounted on a stand, to align things).
I've spent hours looking for high quality front and rear sway bar bushings to no avail. EBay sells front bushings scary cheap fom the Asian aftermarket. I've searched the MBZ suppliers, but not found front or rear. Anyone have suggestions where to buy them or have them made? Would prefer polyurethane. They shouldn't cost more than $1k in the worst case, so cost is no object.
Helpful suggestions appreciated.
L.S.
Ok, I purchased most of the parts to complete this analog conversion (new W220 steering pump, fancy thrust arms and other connectors from FCP), used front and rear S500 sway bars from EBay (which I powder-coated); Even a used CL 600 engine (which I mounted on a stand, to align things).
I've spent hours looking for high quality front and rear sway bar bushings to no avail. EBay sells front bushings scary cheap fom the Asian aftermarket. I've searched the MBZ suppliers, but not found front or rear. Anyone have suggestions where to buy them or have them made? Would prefer polyurethane. They shouldn't cost more than $1k in the worst case, so cost is no object.
Helpful suggestions appreciated.
L.S.
You have to buy these from MB dealer
they are cheap, that's why not available else
I already have the stock brackets.
To the best of my knowledge the bushings, Part #2203232565, is not available from Mercedes nor from any quality mfr. Are you guys actually bolting old sway bars off Ebay, with their old dried-out original bushings onto your custom W215's?
Surely someone has, or can make, fresh bushings for this application...
I already have the stock brackets.
To the best of my knowledge the bushings, Part #2203232565, is not available from Mercedes nor from any quality mfr. Are you guys actually bolting old sway bars off Ebay, with their old dried-out original bushings onto your custom W215's?
Surely someone has, or can make, fresh bushings for this application...
Hi PM. Thanks for your reply. I've seen those Ebay bushings, and I'm reticent to install them. The guys at FCP Euro tell me they are very low quality and will not last. The OEM bushings are vulcanized onto the sway bar. I had to remove the OEM bushings in order to powder coat the sway bars. The Ebay bushings appear to be all from Asian countries, which are not known for their good quality. There must be a company who either makes high-quality replacement bushings, or a company who can vulcanize a new bushing onto my (now expensive) torsion bars. Perhaps the Ebay bushings can be used as a pattern. Hopefully someone reading this thread has experienced this issue and can inform us. Not looking for a down and dirty fix, but instead a lasting high quality solution.
Regards,
LS
i think I may try an unorthodox idea, I may try adding the rear sway bar while doing my rear subframe mounts. And wait to see if I need front sways. I know most people do the opposite
another thought I had, what about strut tower braces? Those bars you put across the strut towers over the engine, would this help a coilover suspension much?
Last edited by ctravis595; 02-19-2019 at 03:14 PM.
Reason: Spelling
The ride will not be anywhere nearly as smooth as what your expecting, Just a FYI it becomes very aggressive. Unless *** you add both sways bars then you can soften up the struts considerably and the ride is decent. Still very sporty but not embarrassing at all.
To get rid of the RED ABC error you can just disconnect the CAN bus for the ABC system out of the Driver side fuse box. Then you get ABC display defective and you can clear the warning. There is no modifications for the rear sway all the mounting points are there. You just need to drop the subframe which is pretty labor intensive.
You can swap the pump, from a regular S500.
the main problem with yellow speed kit, from the multiple people ive talked to is not the firmness or body roll discussed here. its that the suspension does not have adequate shock absorbers. quite frankly its an unsafe kit compared to the strutmasters or ABC kits ive tried. the rear end of the car will nearly launch off the ground when exiting big dips in the road, especially at high speeds. if you keep driving perfectly straight its not a big big deal besides a lot of unnecessary "bounce"
the problem is what if you need to make an evasive manuever/defensive driving WHILE the car is bouncing up and down? it literally feels like its gonna snap some control arms or something...having spent years on the strutmasters kit i can tell you, not only is the yellow speed kit about half the weight of the strutmasters kit (hmm wonder why) but its also about half as safe. sure the ride height was ugly with strutmasters, and there was a bit of body roll...but thats the only kit i could actually see benefitting from adding sways...you can cut the springs (even strutmasters will do this for you if you are in their area) and then add sways to rectify the body roll. we don't have many curvy mountain roads so the body roll was never a huge problem for me
you mention adding sways and softening up the dampening, i'm not sure how this would help at all. with softer dampening settings the car bounces MORE and is actually more unsafe (which reinforces the theory that the shocks are simply inadequate)...sure theres a little much body roll with soft dampening settings but the soft settings are fairly useless anyways because of aforementioned bounciness
seems like some people here have assumed a stiffer spring will solve this issue but i find that completely counter intuitive. stiffer springs will only diminish the function of the suspension i expect, being that it already has trouble functioning to the standards of a proper suspension already
i also installed the cieka kit on a customers car, even with the softer 14/10kg springs they sent him (the kit is nearly identical to yellow speed kit) he still experiences that same "launch" feeling when exiting big dips in the road. he says its just like his bmw and that was a common complaint on some models of bmw, they do not handle dips very well at all.
being that this is almost acceptable on bmw makes me feel better, but having experience with a properly fitting shock absorber for a coilover kit for this car (Strutmasters) i know theres a lot of room to improve on this yellow speed kit
if anybody has any insight or disagrees feel free to chime in, as seen with all the new coilover kits coming out for this car since i first installed the first DIY strutmasters kit (yellow speed, cieka, pb brakes) it seems like half of the research and development is on us as a community to figure out
Great to hear from anyone on this subject! Yes--I purchased the Strutmasters Module. I haven't installed it yet, but it looks to me like it's the better option from all that I've read on the subject.
The rear sway bar first is probably not a good idea because the weight (in a V12) is mostly on the front. That's why the front sway bar is so much bigger. Some have installed only the front sway bar, and they are happy with that setup. I sometimes drive in a spirited manner, and I love my car, so I want to do everything the best it can be done, then I'll post a full subjective report on handling with the stock hydraulic system vs. the new S500 power steering unit, Yellow Speeds, and sway bars.
I also purchased the Thrust Arm Set from FCP by Syncro Design Works #MBCAKIT. These are really beautiful. FCP (YouTube has the same video) shows exactly how these work to reduce front steering flex at the wheels. I predict they will have little effect on ride harshness, because they work in a lateral manner, instead of vertical. I can't wait to install them. However, I will do all the modifications at once, so I need to solve the two mysteries of how to connect the new power steering pump to the front rack (how to build the hose), and how to purchase or fabricate high quality new sway bar bushings.
Yes--I've looked the world over for a tower brace with no luck. It appears that it will need to be custom fabricated, unless a reader can direct me otherwise.
Thanks again for your post.
LS
2002 CL600
sidenote- i was recently told my someone that strutmasters refused to sell them a ABC error delete module without buying the strutmasters kit. seems like they are offended new companies are entering the w215 coilover market.
pmercury if you have been able to finish your development of a DIY abc error module, now may be a good time to enter that market yourself
quite frankly its an unsafe kit compared to the strutmasters or ABC kits ive tried. the rear end of the car will nearly launch off the ground when exiting big dips in the road, especially at high speeds. if you keep driving perfectly straight its not a big big deal besides a lot of unnecessary "bounce"
the problem is what if you need to make an evasive manuever/defensive driving WHILE the car is bouncing up and down?
.sure theres a little much body roll with soft dampening settings but the soft settings are fairly useless anyways because of aforementioned bounciness
i know theres a lot of room to improve on this yellow speed kit
if anybody has any insight or disagrees feel free to chime in,
I'd like to chime in with the opposite experience with YellowSpeeds. CT Travis, it seems you're the only person on the forum complaining of "bounciness". By machine count, you have used some form of the word "bounce" 56 times in the forum; lately you've even started calling the YellowSpeeds "unsafe". Granted, others have questioned the need for stiffer rear springs for other handling issues, but I don't think I've ever heard the "bounciness" issue from anyone but you. Because you post so many times in so many threads, a newbie considering the YellowSpeeds as an alternative to ABC might think that we ALL feel the kit is somehow compromised or unsafe.
Curiously, you've twice contradicted yourself and seemed to recant your "bouncy" issue: First you concluded that you were to blame in setting an improper ride height for your car. Another time, you realized that - contrary to the instructions - you had over-tweaked the preload on the rear springs.
"i believe a large part of my new-found satisfaction with my yellowspeed Set is how I have manipulated the weight of the car with height settings - yes, height settings. basically what i have discovered is the rear suspension is hugely important in these cars because of the design/geometry. i will say there is still a very slight, tiny bit of bounce at high speed road dips.. it is not bothersome."
===========
"while i was installing the rear camber arms, i decided to loosen all preload from the rear springs. I was surprised to find out just how much preload was set on the rear springs....it was a good bit. I remember the manual that comes with the kit says not to adjust the preload...lol. immediately after starting the car and driving I could feel the difference in the suspension.... the suspension now feels incredibly stable without being overly harsh."
For myself, I installed the kit exactly as it came out of the box, my ride height is the same as it was with ABC, and I still use the damper settings most recommend in the forum (3 clicks from "full hard"). I have 19" wheels with tires of standard height and profile. I regularly drive 80+ on the back roads of south Texas. This area is notorious for the "heaving shales" which outcrop there, and the roads feature unexpected major heaves every few miles. I have never judged my suspension to be too "bouncy". In fact, I like the YellowSpeed setup better than the ABC - not even counting the cost and reliability issues native to ABC.
Most people in the forum seem to agree (or never weighed in) that the YellowSpeed are a safe and effective replacement for the ABC system. For anyone considering using the kit, forget the number of "bouncy" posts and consider the record as 1 vote for bouncy and 1 for not bouncy. Thank you.
I'll chime in on this as well. The idea that a heavier spring is a better spring is false. Springs are largely part of the unsprung weight, and they should be as light as possible. If we could make them out of carbon fiber (like we designed for the military), there would be a noticeable improvement in handling.
I spent considerable time researching "Yellow Speeds vs. Strutmasters". There was no comparison in the product or the quality of service. Strutmasters has no tech people that I find. They are all salesmen reading a script--from which they don't deviate. They couldn't answer one of my technical questions. As already stated, their product is not adustable--which should be important to anyone doing this conversion. I went with Yellow Speeds and installed front and rear sway bars on my 2002 CL600. Replaced all the suspension rubber. Good decision. No bounce. Good handling. High quality product.
I didn't compare the "weight" of the Yellow Speeds with Strutmasters, but they are probably very similar--heavy. I've been building cars all my life (5 decades). My advice: Install Yellow Speeds and don't take any shortcuts. Install front and rear sway bars, replace all your rubber (including your subframe bushings). Sway bars are inexpensive and they should bolt right into any 1999 through 2006 CL. I am not a spokesman for Yellow Speed. I'm just happy to recommend their product because of their quality and service. Donald Patterson was very helpful to me. I received the coilovers only days after ordering them.
CONTACT:
Yellow Speed Racing, USA
Donald Patterson sales@yellowspeedracingusa.com www.YellowSpeedRacingUSA.com 10931 Pellicano Dr., El Paso, TX 79935
(915) 228-9920
Last edited by BayArchitect; 04-25-2019 at 01:15 PM.
04-17-2017, 04:02 PM
