Schiznick

No drinking and driving at the drag strip but I did run in the 11's with the top down in my SL65...... What fun. I will be taking my wifes E55 Wagon to the strip in a couple of weeks. I think I will just leave the two car seats in the back just for fun.

Schiz

AMG2GO

Do it..... That will be the funniest site in all of stardom.

AMG2GO

Here is a link to a picture of a CL with the lightweight AMG seats, these are around 19 pounds each. This and the spare tire/tools is a good way to shave a lot of weight off a CL65. I have actually sat in a seat just like this before and its VERY comfortable but it does not tilt for the back seat.

http://www.exoticcarsite.com/image.p...5_amg_f1-8.jpg

gobiz

Found a nice list and the CL65 is pretty high up.
On the list, the CL65 is already the highest placed 4 seater.
Again, I'm confident with the Kleemann ECU upgrade, LSD and tyres (drag radials), the CL65 can hit the low 11s or even break into the 10s therefore it'll be right up there

http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm

AMG2GO

Thats a real interesting list. Especially because almost ALL the cars... are either late 60's, or in the 2000's. With almost nothing in the middle matching those acceleration numbers through a 40 year span. Also kind of scary that in 1969 you had cars that could run 10's and had drum brakes and bias-ply tires.

gobiz

Yeah, I find it rather hard to believe that those 60's muscle cars could do 1/4mile in the mid 10s stock. I'm not sure if the muscle car magazine that they sourced the numbers from is a reliable source.
Anyone care to elaborate further?

gobiz

Chas Jr, from the CL section, has done 11.44secs on the 1/4 mile with his CL600 Renntech (quoted by Renntech at 625 Bhp and 745 lb/ft) using BFG drag radials.

https://mbworld.org/forums/cl-class-w215/101837-ran-track.html

Again, the performance of the CL class esp. the Biturbo V12s never fail to amaze me.
Can't wait to see someone run the Kleeman CL65 on the 1/4 (quoted at 739 Bhp and 1300 Nm /900+ lb.ft) using drag radials!

Paul Le Corre

don't you understand that the Kleemann kit for the CL65 is a huge joke?

The transmission can't handle more than 1000 NM, it is a fact, like it or not.

So putting 1300 NM on it will just slowly destroy it and completely void your guarantee.

Could you guy stop you stop your childish race for HP and focus on what really matter, the driving pleasure? Bring you CL 65 on the track and you'll see that you'll exchange it quickly against a stock SLK 55.

AMG2GO

The trans issue is mainly an issue at launch, especially if drag radials are used. The trans can actually handle quite a bit of power at speed, where the pressure is released. Anytime I have seen trans/diff failures in drag racing it has been when the vehicle is made to "hook up" by sticky tires.

I mean this is a "fun" thread anyway, like I mentioned before, no way would I personaly take my 180K car and modify it in any way. I am a racer at heart, I love going fast and having fast cars. But my non turbo CL600 has plenty of power for me because I enjoy the comfort and quiet... and enough power to more than easily deal with most traffic.

A CL65 is faster than 99% of all cars in stock form. And a true luxury car with excellent reliability compared to anything as fast as it is. Why mess with that. If you can't get it out if your system, get another car and race it. Take it to the track and beat the snot out of it. Don't mess with the enormous work that MB and AMG engineers have done. Kleemann makes real cool stuff, hell I have the catalog and I love it.... but Kleemann does not care about your reliability!!! They are there to sell product. Mods are OK only when MILD. Because the manufacturer leaves some room for play... exceed that and you are just asking for trouble.

In the old days MB was MB, there was no in-house AMG, and AMG had lots of room to take a stock very conservatively designed car and make it better. There was room to play. With AMG in house now, there is much less room to play. You are hot rodding a hot rodded model! think about that.

These Kleemaan headers... look so cool in that pretty stainless steel... does anyone talk about stress cracking? They are not strong like the factory units. Kleemann isn't going to say that in their brochure.... "oh by the way your headers may crack, your transmission may give out, and your turbine bearings may cook a lot faster". They just have some guy in a white lab coat posing with a laptop and a car looking all professional.

gobiz

Like I said, I was merely bench racing
I don't own a CL65 and if I did own one, or even a CL600, I probably won't touch it at all.

I'm just amazed to read about there luxury cruisers doing terrific numbers on the drag strip and still looking forward to see someone wealthy enough (or foolish enough!) to send his CL65 to Kleemann, put on LSD and some drag radials and see what it can do with the 739 Bhp and 1300Nm.

No need for u guys to get worried :p

I know a little bit about modding cars for performance, basically the mods/performance will be inversely proportional to reliability. The buyer of my highly tuned Nissan Skyline GTR blew his engine within a week, and I had just had it rebuilt 6 months ago

P/s
That's a disturbing signature you've got there, Paul Le Corre. I'm not sure I fully understand it even.

gobiz

Oh yeah, Kleemann says the extra 127bhp and 300Nm torque can be made by a simple ECU upgrade, no hardware needed. But still, my inverse proportional rule still applies :p

AMG2GO

I tell you having talked to Brabus, Renntech, and Kleemann, I will go out on a limb and say that I think Feyhl (Renntech) does a more thorough job of preparing his cars for any extra performance upgrades. Although they are a smaller company, I think they know MB vehicles very well and really pay more attention to reliability than others. I am not sure there is a single engineer at any of the other companies that knows as much as Feyhl.

Paul Le Corre

The fact that Renntech is selling upgrades for the 65 AMG serie shows that they are not so serious. Does Brabus sell upgrades? No. Does Carlsson sell upgrades? no.
Why cause they know that 's not possible with a good reliability in the long term.

P.S: my sig is made by an artist called Cheston.

James L.

Case in point is, it doesn't make any sense to further upgrade or tune a CL65! It has 612hp and 738lbft! Sure you might gain a few hp and some torque but what I find odd is, people use to talk about crazy tuning and modifyin of japanese cars/american cars.

Now i just find it so odd that people are talking about modifying 180k MERCEDES like as if they're modifying a 10k Civic Si in the old days. What has mercedes come to? Or what has the world come to? lol its funny

AMG2GO

Paul Brabus does in fact sell upgrades and more are in the works. Renntech almost always recommends trans upgrades and trans coolers, I wouldn't call them "not so serious".... Even on the mildest upgrades they always recommend parts that extend longevity. If you look, they are much milder on the 65 upgrade than Kleeman and they recommend other parts besides an ECU.

I think we both are agreeing on the merits of modifying this car. I am just saying from having talked to these guys directly, not just about the CL but other cars, and from their history, I think Renntech is the one I personally would trust more than others.

A lot depends on the owner too. Someone who owns a modified car, understands its mechanics well and knows what to do and what not to do is not the same as any clown who mods a car and the proceeds to treat it like a drag racer on a daily basis.

gobiz

AMG2G0, did u ask Kleemann about how they're going to deal with the trans limit?
It'd be very interesting to see what they actually say about their upgrade pushing 1300Nm torque when MB and AMG says the transmission can only deal with 1000Nm

AMG2GO

This is a reply from Kleeman's technical manager:

The transmission is perfectly suited to handle this kind of torque. As you know, peak torque is developed at only one specific RPM point. That particular transmission is rated to handle a little more than 700 lb/ft. of continuous torque input- something that you will never do on the road. Momentary shock loads are easily 35% higher than this. To date, KLEEMANN has had zero transmission failures on tuned 65 cars. There are several functions built into both the transmission controller and the engine ECU to help prevent transmission damage. The 5-Speed transmission is a very stout, reliable unit, and I see no need for upgrades to cope with the power and torque.

Kind Regards,

Cory Umemoto
Technical Manager
KLEEMANN USA, Inc.

They have discontinued the 1300NM upgrade, as it also includes upgraded turbos that cannot be found anymore. They now have just an ECU upgrade, and I have a graph of the horsepower and torque from a dynojet.

If someone can tell me how to post a picture (I can't seem to figure this out) that I have on my PC, I can post that graph here so you all can see for yourself.

04E55 AMG

Rule of thumb, if Cory says something MB owners should listen. He knows more about AMG cars then the MB dealers. Have seen it first hand

gobiz

Wow, cool. Good info, AMG2GO!
Can I humbly request a favour? Could you please email me the dyno graph please?
My email is khairunnain@yahoo.com.

Many kind thanks in advance!

p/s From the Kleemann website and their Spring 2005 catalogue, they claim with JUST an ECU upgrade, 127 extra BHP and 300 Nm are unleashed. No mention on any hardware mods eg. turbos.

http://www.kleemann.dk/site/9BE444A4...F-D361715F1E2C

http://www.kleemann.dk/site/567EE3BB..._name=newsitem

AMG2GO

The graph does not show 127 extra HP. Not even close. The powerband is quite different, and there is a lot more down low... but looking at the graph and being familiar with Turbos, my guess is they are fairly small as they spool up fast but start to lose effeciency at higher RPM's. With the upgrade more boost is called for, but the powerband at the extreme top is actually weaker than stock. What that tells me is that the air is superheated, the intercooler is no longer dealing well with it, and the turbines are too small. I will e-mail the graph and you will see for yourself. I believe the turbos are the limiting factor.

Having said this, I am sure the Kleemann car is faster as the power comes in greater quantities down low and midrange.... its a dramatic difference. The peak horsepower is not very different from stock.... but with cars, especially with supercharged or turbocharged cars, peak horsepower is only good for advertising #'s in a catalog.

It looks like MB has selected the turbos quite carefuly, getting full effeciency out of them with not much room leftover. If the turbos had a lot left, that means they were not sized properly.

gobiz

Cool, looking fwd to ur email. I sent u a PM btw .
Thinking about it, 127 Bhp and 300Nm extra IS a bit far-fetched.

gobiz

AHA!!!! Found this thread with dyno graphs!
SL65 with Kleemann ECU.

https://mbworld.org/forums/sl55-amg-sl63-amg-sl65-amg-r230/100310-kleemann-sl65-dynoed.html

692 Bhp and 1183 Nm torque. Not as much as what Kleemann claims but extremely impressive anyhow.

AMG2GO

These graphs are really telling a story. When I look at them, I see an engine that when modified, is running on higher boost pressures. And the spike in low and midrange power shows this clearly. However past a certain RPM, you see that the factory car is still increasing its power as the revs climb, but the modified engine is LOSING power. At max RPM redline, the stock engine is now producing slightly MORE power than the modified engine.

This clearly indicates that the turbos are maxed out. They are running to their limit early on. At the higher RPMs, they have completely lost their effeciency.

Draw your own conclusions on long term reliability with such a thing. The car will be faster, but it is coming at a heavy price.

James L.

IF what Cory (Kleeman T. Manager) says is really true................

THEN WHY THE HELL DID THE AMG DUDES LIMIT THE CAR DOWN TO 1000NM from the CLAIMED 1300NM AND 700HP!?!?!?!?!?!?

That AMG Engineers are chickens and instead opt for pure 101% margin reliability?

I seriously doubt so! Perhaps AMG just limit the car to what they are now so that with a flick of switch (tune the car ecu) they can bring the car up to higher horsepower and torque rating? Meaning to say we already have a car capable of 700hp and 1300nm for the 65 series, just that they are limited for stricly commercial reasons?

So that AMG could come out with what? cl69? cl73? cl80? cl99? All under the same CL65 engine with software tuning only? Dang! I am confusing myself.. So transmission not being able to handle is just a COVERUP for commercial reasons as well? Now I really am confusing myself.

Somebody save me...

gobiz

Hmmm, AMG2GO, if you look at Piko6's graphs, the gain is power and torque is actually maintained until redline. So the engine with the upgraded ECU has more power at all rpms.

Maybe it depends on tuning after the ECU is installed?