Z356

Recently read in this forum that the Cognac/Black interior was 'discontinued' for the CL63. To my knowledge, it was never offered in our market...so it can't be discontinued if it never 'was' available in the first place. Cognac/Black continues to be offered in MY'08 CL550/CL600 just as it was in MY'07s. Back to what is currently available for the US on the CL63, AMG supplies (at no extra cost or standard) the so-called 'Premium' leather interiors in three colors - Black, Grey and Savanna/Cashmere. In my opinion, the interior quality of these leathers is not optimal and tend to look coarse & unrefined (especially noticeable in Black). AMG Premium' leather appears to be of a lower grade compared to the similarly named 'Premium' leather' offered as an option on the S550. Without doubt, the CL63 leather is substantially inferior to the 'Exclusive' leather found on the CL600, which is a similarly priced model once you load up a CL63. I have heard complaints from some in this forum regarding the CL63's interior leather quality, which was echoed by S63 owners in the other forum. Is by chance the AMG Savanna/Cashmere in the CL63 less coarse looking than the AMG black leather? To my eyes it appeared to have a more 'refined' grain than the Black...or is it wishful thinking on my part. Z356

FloridaE55

You are right - it was never offered on the CL63 (but that is not specific to our market - that even applies to Germany). Fact is that you can't get it on the CL63 - no matter if it was available before or not. The purpose of my post was to inform other members that they couldn't order that color on their new CL63. Neither the website nor the brochure provided potential customers with this specific information.

I was told by mbusa that it was 'discontinued' and I had no reason to doubt their comment.

The member 'WSH' stated that he opted for black interior because it would 'cover' the lower quality of the interior leather. Now you are posting quite the opposite so I have no idea who's right on that one - I opted for the grey/dark grey..

The only way to get the Exclusive leather on the CL63 ist to go designo. If you like the offered colors is a different question (I'm not sure if you can go with a designo interior and a non-designo colored exterior - on the 08 S-class, you can) - I do know that you won't be able to order the Performance Package when ordering designo.

Looking at the price, the CL600 with its great interior quality and V12-engine is a real alternative - unfortunately, it's not an alternative any more when it comes to appearance.

Sadly but true, even at these high prices, the old rule applies:

'You can't have everything..'

Z356

Florida: Thanks for your response. Here is what I know about the black AMG leather on the current MY08 S/CL 63s. I was priviledged to be invited inside the Untertürkheim MB facility in May of '07 and was driven at speed on the test track aboard a black/black S63 by a factory driver. The ride dynamics were impressive, especially in the curved bank portion of the track. But one of my lasting impressions of the car itself was the coarse/plastic-looking black leather interior on this othewise magnificent vehicle. I have since test driven a black interior S63 at a US dealer and my initial impressions of the black leather interior has not changed. I have not seen in person a Savanna/Cashmere S63, but my local dealer has a Savanna/Cashmere CL63 on the lot and I thought (from a quick overview) that the interior leather looked better - but it could be wishful thinking. Can anyone with a Savanna/Cashmere CL63 or S63 give us a personal evaluation to see if, in this lighter color scheme, the leather quality of Savanna/Cashmere is actually better than AMG Black? It would seem strange...but stranger things happen in the MB/AMG world. I have not priced out what it would take to do Designo on a CL but I recently posted (in AMG S Forum) costs for Designo on a S63, as provided to me by MB of Westminster. The Designo interior costs $13,790 on an S63. A Designo exterior paint cost an additional $2,250. For '08, the change (new) is that you can mix two (of the three) Designo interiors on any standard exterior paint - eg Barolo with Sand/Black or Corteccia Grey. You are no longer tied to Mocha Black or Graphite exterior paints in set Editions, although you can opt for these too as a package. Apparently, Mystic White with Porcelain is only available together as the 038 Designo option. Z356

Ferri

The Designo packages are a robbery, in my opinion.

FloridaE55

Z365,

There is still one thing I have to investigate: Although it is clear that the 030-package and designo-package can't be combined, I'm not 100% sure if the same applies to - let's say - an exterior paint or interior package without an entire designo package.

I think the complete designo-package on the CL (interior and exterior) is about $9,000 so its a bit cheaper than on the S-Class.

Ferri,

You are right - designo is everything but a bargain and has virtually no influence on the resale-value, but when you are considering a $150K car-purchase, you might even be willing to pay that amount just the get the best quality (and the designo-quality IS excellent!) possible.

Z356

Florida: You stated: "When you are considering a $150K car-purchase, you might even be willing to pay that amount just the get the best quality (and the designo-quality IS excellent!) possible." I couldn't agree with you more. To overcome the negative of the lower grade leather on the CL63, it might be sensible to pay $9K for the Designo option, instead of spending $7K for the so-called performance package option (030), which is just a lighter weight set of wheels and a top speed de-limit. What are the specific Designo interiors available on the CL63? Graphite and Mystic? There is no Sand/Black (aka Espresso) option, or is there? Z356.

neodoc

I just had to chime in here because I don't understand what all the fuss is about. I currently have three Mercedes products on which there's a noticeable difference in the leathers. The 99 CLK (which has always been garaged and has only 32,000 miles on it) has the hardest leather of the three, and up until recently, my Premier GL with the Nappa had the softest. I was impressed with the softness of the leather in my CL 63, and thought it was quite good. I guess I must not be a connoisseur. One thing I do know is how to be practical. If one opts for the lighter interiors, one will be a slave to them for as long as the car is in one's possession. Dyes from one's clothing, skin oils, etc., all get into the leather and change it's appearance. There are many products out there which can clean leather and restore its appearance, but some changes are permanent. My CLK with its Ash interior is spotless, yet it is not the same as when it came off the truck in 1999. If a lighter color makes you happy and you feel that the leather quality is up to par, more power to you. Just be prepared to be a slave. Good luck with your decision.

WSH

To add further confusion....

Briefly saw a blk/blk S63 at dealer and recall that its leather appears worse than CL63's underwhelming leather grain....esp I recall that S63 has plastic-look doors (whereas CL63 has more evident, acceptable leather and stitching)...and even seats of S63 had vinyl-like texture, esp on bolsters....would observe that leather quality of CL63 seats is actually excellent....similar fine-grain as 600/65...and w/o the hideous quilting of 65....

Realize that architecture of CL dash, esp center/console area, is different vs S.....CL has more emphasis of carbon fiber (or whatever wood chosen).....and consider how carbon fiber plays vs the color of interior and the overall perf ethos of the interior....have cf interior in my 030 and am absolutely delighted w/quality of materials/additive perf design element it provides....had blk wood in my first CL63 and though OK-looking, not at all as impressive as cf (both cars w/blk leather interior)...

Carefully consider how car will look w/o 030 wheels (if opt for no 030).....had a CL63 w/o 030 at launch (now have CL63 030)....and IMO the 030 wheels markedly enhance appearance of car....

Also, would never accept a perf/luxury car w/wood steering wheel (as found in Designo/600/65).....had '07 CL600 (yes, I'm a new car addict)....wood wheel is highly disappointing vs the functionally superb AMG sport steering wheel.....much enjoy the feel of the thick-rimmed, grippy sport steering wheel....even in mundane urban driving, let alone spirited twisties driving....

Z356

Neodoc: Point well taken on the negative of lighter interiors. You must have a black interior on your CL63. As far as connoisseurship of leather, we all know there is only one expert - Ricardo Montalban. In this link, he tells us all you need to know about leather, especially one called 'Corinthian' which we know is the very best & we all wish we could have it in our Mercedes, no?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcw2H4W9TJk
On a more serious note, if you take the time to see and feel the interior of a '08 CL 600 (or a similar S600/S65) you will also become a leather expert in no time flat. In Mercedes-American speak, the leather in these cars is called 'Exclusive'. In in the rest of the world, this same leather may be called 'Passion'...but MBUSA thought it would sound too erotic and sensual for our (formerly) Puritan country. Ha! The point is that, since a well optioned CL63 is priced equal to a CL600, it should perhaps benefit from the same expensive leather interior of its V12 stable-mate. N'est-ce pas? Z356

WSH

Was so disappointed that AMG US didn't spec CL63s w/fine-grained leather on doors/dash/console/steering wheel airbag cover that I ordered a CL65....despite knowing that I prefer the overall chassis balance/traction dynamics of 63 over 65...but hoping for better leather interior....

Saw the 65 when it arrived....and immediately passed....net, net I prefer interior of my CL63 over that of 65.....that tacky/codgerly quilting (even looks worse live than in pics).....the unremarkable/boring/clunky-looking S65 wheels....and the (special-ordered) sports steering wheel still lacking a leather airbag cover (had been given identical steering wheel as my CL63) were simply too laughable....

Be prepared to find positive/negative surprises w/many colors/materials choices.....pics are often misleading vs in-flesh/in full context appearance...

FloridaE55

Well, when it comes to lighter colors I never had any problems so far. My M5 is almost white and the seats were never dirty. The X5 is very light as well and after 18 months, it's still clean. Back in Germany, we owned a BMW with black leather and discovered quite fast that they show dirt as well. Darker dust and dirt shows up on lighter seats and lighter dust and dirt (exists as well) is visible on dark leather. Black was no option for me because it gets too hot here in Florida.

As a side-note: Even the standard CL63-leather is called 'Passion' in Germany - you can upgrade it there to 'Passion Exclusive' for a few bucks.

As for the more expensive CL65:
I thought about getting a pre-owned one next year instead of the 63 but even when thinking of this great machine and leather-quality, I'm simply not happy with the complete package that car has to offer (wheels, wood steering-wheel, quilted leather).

Z356

WHS: You are single handedly bringing the word 'codger' back into use in our country. Congratulations. Here is something interesting. On the current '08 sales brochure for the S class, there is a full page photo of a S63 interior showing the all leather AMG sport steering wheel with a leather-stitched air bag center section. As we all know, when the S63/CL63 arrived state-side the center air bag section was (and remains) plastic. I have already purchased an S63/CL 63 all leather (in black) AMG steering wheel from the Classifieds in this Forum, just in case I get a S600/CL600 with a black leather/wood steering wheel (eg Espresso S or Cognac CL). It is very thick and sporty, like the one on my BMW 650. Unlike you, I know I am an old 'codger' since I live in Carmel and am already 57 years old. So I want luxury and style, my boy! Interestingly, the younger S63 customer who sold me this wheel preferred the the wood/leather S600 type and switched it out. So he must be a 'codger-in-training', or perhaps a neighbor of Ricardo in Rancho Mirage. His lost, my gain. I agree with you on the S65/CL65 cross-stitched 'quilting' for '08. Bentley Continental GT does it well in its Mulliner edition. But the Mercedes version looks completely out of place on this top 'sport' AMG model- rather like a cheap tuck and roll from Tijuana. I will have to examine the CL63's leather more closely. If it is substantially better than that in the S63, I might be tempted...even at my advanced old age. Z356

FloridaE55

Talking about the airbag-cover: Shouldn't it be possible to get the leather-cover as a spare-part from the local dealer? I assume the cover-dimension on the CL63 is identical to the one found on the 600/65-versions?!

Oh, Z356, before I forget: Yes, Mocha Black/Sand is available as well..

Z356

Florida: The cover might not be available separatedly from the air bag. I was hoping to use the air bag (with its stitched leather cover) from the leather/wood steering wheel in the S or CL I buy and store the leather/wood wheel until resale. Let me know if you find out for sure.

The only function I may lose by switching to the all leather AMG version is the "heating" of the steering wheel, which is standard on S600 from '07 and now also found on the '08 S65 (used to be optional). I don't think the all leather AMG wheel has a heated option, right? At least, I don't see it in the MB website and is not an option listed in any of the MSRP window stickers I have seen on Ebay. If it is available, it might be standard equipment on the S63/CL 63 and hidden in the general description I have not yet read. Does anybody know for sure?

The '08 Designo optional Sand leather is 'timid', or 'bland', compared to the '07 Designo optional Armagnac leather. That, my friend, was a truly distinctive color which I wish had not been discontinued. Thanks for the info on the CL 63 Designo.

Z356

FloridaE55

I can tell you for sure that it's not standard - it isn't even optional since it requires the wood/leather-wheel which is not an option on the S7CL63. Even when opting for the complete designo-package - on a 63-AMG, you get a leather steering-wheel.

You are right about the heating-function. The S/CL65 are really exemptions - usually AMG and 'heated steering wheel' does not work together. On the ML 63 I ordered, I could get a wood/leather steering-wheel from the factory (oh, according to the brochure, this isn't even possible on the ML63) and although it's wood/leather, it is not heated...

I'll keep you updated about the cover - and if you can opt for designo interior OR exterior instead of the entire package to get the 030 Performance Package as well. The entire Package and 030 doesn't work - as posted before..

WSH

z356, am a younger AMG cust, but I've been a curmudgeon since I was perhaps 4yo or so No offense intended w/my comments re: car features/choices.....I tend to ridicule weaknesses of any car.....and enjoy also recognizing/appreciating strengths of these overall great cars....

As a safety fanatic, would have concerns re: any dealer-installed/modified stuff, esp steering wheel and its airbag function, etc....

W/new CL and S-Classes, MB/AMG R&D has finally produced a tech-intensive car w/superb reliability/quality....but most dealers struggle to deliver a new car w/properly set tire Ps....or alignment settings....so I tend to minimize my exposure to risks/unknowns of dealer manipulation/modif/svc of any car post-delivery (and I have a long-standing, excellent relationship w/my MB dealer which I suspect is one of the more competent MB dealers)....

Z356

WHS: No offence taken. Curmudgeon is a bad-tempered or surly person, which I doubt you are, especially now that you have mellowed out in the company of your Ferrari friends from the Peninsula racing up to Ridge Vineyards in Cupertino to enjoy the view & a glass of the fine 1994 California Monte Bello! Listen, could you do me the favor in describing in detail your take on the pros & cons of the CL600 vs the CL63...but without using the word 'codgerly' more than 5 times. I will send you a PM so you could help me out since you have owned both. I am into 'style & luxury' on this new MB purchase since I already own a 650 Vert. A CL600 is the only way I can get the Cognac/Black interior I want. Unfortunately, I don't know how practical is to even consider owning two coupes. My other cars are a 2005 Mini Cooper S cabrio and a '53 Fiat Topolino! In what will I pick up my 'lovely' in-laws at the airport when they come for a visit? Z356.

MBZFAN55

Being sufficiently codgerly at 58, I first of all want to thank WSH for "intimidating" me out of another mundane Mercedes product and into a CL63. From early European press releases I was led to believe that the Passion leather was coming to MBUSA, but as mentioned above, the terminology and option availability varies greatly from across the pond. Nonetheless, I find the leather reasonably acceptable, although I would have preferred the softer "600" product. The CL600 is equally quick as the 63 and noticeably more responsive at lower rpms, but just not as much fun. From a purely subjective viewpoint, I love the CL with the AMG body package but am not real excited about the CL600 without that look. Both the 63 & 600 have ABC, but "twisties" are better in the 63, and somehow the AMG steering wheel seems more appropriate than the wood. IMO.

WSH

Given some here seem to be debating the CL600 vs CL63 choice, thought I'd share my obsvns on both cars....

Drove '07 CL600 for some 3K mis; CL63 030 for some 5K mis. Each car's role included daily urban commuting (bumpy, hilly SF streets); some 40mi drive on 280 fwy from SF-SiliconValley (arguably fastest (and most scenic) urban fwy in world w/hills/bends/areas of imperfect pavement; often heavy cross-winds....and fair amt of traffic, though fast-moving); and wkend drives up in mtn twisties of Woodside (many rather tight twisties; some great pavement; lots of imperfect pavement/camber changes, etc). Am an OK amateur driver, but more focused on risk/reward-balanced safe, spirited, precise driving; nuances of car dynamics.....

Seats....am 6'/150lbs and extremely comfortable in either car's seats; have colleagues who are 6' and closer to 200lbs who are equally comfortable in their CL63 seats (seats are more adjustable than perhaps any other car's today). CL63's deeper bolsters are incrementally useful in twisties driving, but in straight-line driving 600's seats are equally competent. CL63 seats require a bit of effort to gracefully seat oneself (like any sportscar). Back seats...rarely ever have more than one passenger in car; but have been seated in colleague's CL63 back seat for 10min ride cross-town to dinner...seemed comfortable enough.....could prob endure a 1hr ride from SF-NapaVy in back seat....but any further and my ADD kicks in and I'd rather fly anyway, even if it were an S600/65 back seat....

Ride quality....on SF's worst roads, 600 is a tad more comfortable...but not material diffce IMO.

Dynamics....even in city driving, the ?250lbs additional wt of 600 motor is felt over wheels....even in mundane parking/slow driving; brakes of 63 are markedly better than those of 600....pedal feel; stopping ability in mtn twisties; fade resistance in mtns....exhaust note: 63 clearly wins; often will drive w/o music simply to listen to that addictive exhaust note of 63, even in city driving...and esp in full-throttle mid-range accel on fwy...

On fwy....600 is easily one of the 3-4 most stable/confidence-inspiring cars in world at high speeds on 280 (even vs 997TT or 599)....brilliantly damped steering/chassis/aerodynamic stability....600 will win vs 63 in mid-range tq for accel'g above 80MPH....and, unlike 65, 600 has excellent tq/traction balance vs wet and/or imperfect pavement...600's modest weakness vs 63 on fwy is that, if one needed to perform an emergent, evasive maneuver at speed on a busy fwy, one would prob rather be armed w/63's more perf-calibrated steering/ABC/brakes/tires....

In mtn twisties, the brilliantly balanced, playful 63 clearly outshines the remarkably competent 600...in fact, would argue CL600 was more enjoyable than my '07 SL65 in twisties b/c 600 has far superior tq/traction balance...and the brake pedal feel of SL65 was simply awful....

Optics.....exterior of 63 030 IMO is most elegant/intimidating of any car available today....exudes the tech-intensive perf ethos of car....the exhaust tips; 030 wheels; cool-looking brake calipers; air effects; fog lights; darkened headlight casings, etc...often after a wkend drive (or even after wkday commute home), will spend much time admiring the superb exterior detailing work of 63 030....600 exterior is a debacle....unfortunately, CL is arguably highest-tech car on planet today...yet exterior of 600 simply looks low-tech/baroque/confused.....in '08, MB came up w/those tacky ricer/rapper exhaust tips; lack of air effects makes car look incomplete/clunky/inelegant; wheels are tolerable only if they are luxury-oriented and cover up those cheap-looking, old-tech brake calipers which are similar to those seen on plebeian C/ML's; and fog lights/front air dam chrome work is baroque....

Interior....IMO, 600 is easily best overall luxury car interior in world today when considering overall elegance/ergonomics.....very elegant/well-finished throughout w/great attention to detail....much prefer 600's fluting theme to 65's quilting....biggest negative is wood steering wheel....major negative in spirited driving; tolerable for straight-line driving....

Net, net, if one lives in a place w/flat, straight roads and/or largely does straight-line urban driving, prob will be more pleased w/600's interior and tq...if one can ignore the 600 exterior and not become addicted to the 63's exuberant exhaust note....

Few thoughts of one car nut...hope they are somewhat useful.....my sanity (or insanity) check is that I have a few CL- and Ferrari-addicted colleagues who seem to share many of my views re: CL63 and 600 (and 65) from their driving expces on SF Peninsula's rather enjoyable roads/topography/speeds/weather....

FloridaE55

WSH, what a great review - Thanks!

I can only assume - due to the small price-gap between a fully loaded CL63 and a CL600 - almost everybody will come to the point of comparing these two cars. I'm still under 30 so I guess I might the right choice with the CL63..

Z356

WHS: Thanks for taking the time to summarize your experiences with the '07 CL600 and the '08 CL63. Lots of things to consider and evaluate to determine what suits us best, including how practical is owning a total of FOUR two-door coupes..but not a single four-door sedan. Have you ever driven an S63? How does it compare with your CL63? Regards, Z356

WSH

Gents, my pleasure....have learned more re: cars from jaded fellow car nuts than any car mag....and most from driving these cars on interesting roads to learn strengths/weaknesses...

Never drove S63 extensively enough to provide detailed comments vs CL63....suspect dynamic diffces are minor-moderate and only seen in mtn twisties....

Personally, have no need for sedan, but am paranoid enough re: safety (though I've never been in a collision) that I was debating getting S63 over CL63 for extra 6" of length/rear crumple zone (in event of being rear-ended on fwy....risks of powerful brakes on busy, high-speed fwys w/many inept fellow drivers in cars/SUVs w/inept brakes/handling); B-pillars and perhaps greater roof strength of S63 in event of rollover; ?3" higher roof for increased roof crumpling space in event of rollover....

Killed the idea after seeing S63 030 live; interior was too painfully plasticky to consider further (sort of the inverse of the 600 exterior); also prefer CL nose vs S63's; and like fact CL doesn't have the TeleAid antenna cluttering the roof line....and, as a younger guy, would feel like I was either driving someone's limo around or driving a Woodside family guy's kiddie hauler....and, having lived in Manhattan earlier in my career, have a generally negative view of S-Classes as upscale cabs....and S-Classes induce post-traumatic flashbacks for me.....thoughts of NYC region's awful roads/weather/garages/anti-perf car/pro-scuffed-up limo culture can do that to car nuts from CA....

JDB

WSH,
I have read your detailed reviews with interest, especially since you have so much experience as the result of your serial ownership of so many vehicles.

And, I was pleasantly surprised when you mentioned the roof antenna.

Now, I realize that I am not the only one who loves the fact that the roof line of my CL does not have that piece of apparatus affixed to it. I had discussed the possibility of ordering a different model without the antenna with rather highly-placed AMG folks. They seemed surprised that anyone would make such a request.

Thanks, again, for all of your insights. I look forward to your future posts.

Sincerely,
JDB

WSH

My pleasure, JDB.....

Always good to know that there are many fellow detail-oriented car addicts out there....