HOW TO: -10c Cooling system mod ($30) Best way to lower temps!
01-09-2013, 10:54 PM
#26
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550HP+ ///AMG CL55 Kompressor, Ducati 916bp, Yamaha R1 WSBK replica
Stop giving out incorrect information.
EXPLAIN WHY driving at 70MPH on the freeway for hours on end will NOT OVERCOOL the engine, but running a computer controlled cooling fan, (that does not activate unless 80*c is reached) CAN OVERCOOL the engine?!
BOTH SITUATIONS have a lot of air passing over the engine. (the fan, drastically less)
How come, when the electric fan pushes air over the radiator, you say it's going to OVERCOOL then engine?
But the air (and alot more of it) passing over the radiator when driving at prolonged high speed is PERFECTLY FINE.
Your logic is so flawed.
FACT:
AMG engineers agreed that a setting should allow for an ADJUSTMENT RANGE. from +2,+1 0 - 1-2 -3 -4 -5 -6 -7 -8 +9 to -10C.
That's a lot of range. If there was ONLY ONE PERFECT SETTING then it would be LOCKED IN, and not able to adjust it at all.
You have no idea how this mods works in the real world, because if you did, you'd be lying, saying all this stuff that you did. Right now, you're just ignorant of the fundamentals of operation when making this setting change, even though I've explained over and over and over! REREAD what I wrote! I don't like having to repeat things.
AT NIGHT (read: cool outside temperatures) the computer controlled fans DO NOT switch on!
During warm up, and under light, normal operation THEY DO NOT SWITCH ON.
They act in the EXACT SAME manner that they normally would, without this setting change, only this just moves the THRESHOLD. When the temps creep over 80*, they turn on.
SIMPLE. Stop being argumentative for no reason.
READ THIS.
EXPLAIN WHY driving at 70MPH on the freeway for hours on end will NOT OVERCOOL the engine, but running a computer controlled cooling fan, (that does not activate unless 80*c is reached) CAN OVERCOOL the engine?!
BOTH SITUATIONS have a lot of air passing over the engine. (the fan, drastically less)
How come, when the electric fan pushes air over the radiator, you say it's going to OVERCOOL then engine?
But the air (and alot more of it) passing over the radiator when driving at prolonged high speed is PERFECTLY FINE.
Your logic is so flawed.
FACT:
AMG engineers agreed that a setting should allow for an ADJUSTMENT RANGE. from +2,+1 0 - 1-2 -3 -4 -5 -6 -7 -8 +9 to -10C.
That's a lot of range. If there was ONLY ONE PERFECT SETTING then it would be LOCKED IN, and not able to adjust it at all.
You have no idea how this mods works in the real world, because if you did, you'd be lying, saying all this stuff that you did. Right now, you're just ignorant of the fundamentals of operation when making this setting change, even though I've explained over and over and over! REREAD what I wrote! I don't like having to repeat things.
AT NIGHT (read: cool outside temperatures) the computer controlled fans DO NOT switch on!
During warm up, and under light, normal operation THEY DO NOT SWITCH ON.
They act in the EXACT SAME manner that they normally would, without this setting change, only this just moves the THRESHOLD. When the temps creep over 80*, they turn on.
SIMPLE. Stop being argumentative for no reason.
READ THIS.
Last edited by nidyanazo; 01-09-2013 at 10:58 PM.
01-10-2013, 12:44 AM
#28
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When I said:"AT NIGHT (read: cool outside temperatures) the computer controlled fans DO NOT switch on!"
I made sure to specify cool temperature nights.. Warm summer nights, then yes, they should be coming on, if it's warm enough to raise the coolant temp up a little above 80*c
01-10-2013, 03:26 AM
#29
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00 C200 & 00 C55 & 06 SLK55
In my opinion; MB & AMG Engineers will NOT put the temp. optional if they knows it's a risky or generally Affect,,
This temp. mod. is great & reasonable as an optional of the heat range....
ZAYED,,
This temp. mod. is great & reasonable as an optional of the heat range....
ZAYED,,
01-10-2013, 09:25 AM
#30
let me explain it in a simple manner to you since the whole concept seems to escape you.
you are turning the fans on at lower water temps
lower water temp (overall 10 degrees in this case) results in lower oil temp results in lower block (heads in particular) temp.
lower heads temp (in your case 10 degrees) will impact combustion efficiency.
the only way you will regain this lost efficiency is if at optimal efficiency temps you have other ignition problems (ie timing retard)- which you should not have if your car functions as expected. in that case yes, you lower the temps, the timing gets advanced again and you are making more power. but this means something is wrong somewhere.
the fan temp adjustment in das is there for field adjustments for vehicles in extremely hot climates (read - arab world). under those conditions the cooling system becomes very inertial and the temp upswings need to "intercepted" early by the fan. for any other weather all you are doing is running the engine at lower than its "sweet spot" temps. this results in higher emissions, worsen engine response, reduced power and increased fuel consumption.
hope this helps.
you are turning the fans on at lower water temps
lower water temp (overall 10 degrees in this case) results in lower oil temp results in lower block (heads in particular) temp.
lower heads temp (in your case 10 degrees) will impact combustion efficiency.
the only way you will regain this lost efficiency is if at optimal efficiency temps you have other ignition problems (ie timing retard)- which you should not have if your car functions as expected. in that case yes, you lower the temps, the timing gets advanced again and you are making more power. but this means something is wrong somewhere.
the fan temp adjustment in das is there for field adjustments for vehicles in extremely hot climates (read - arab world). under those conditions the cooling system becomes very inertial and the temp upswings need to "intercepted" early by the fan. for any other weather all you are doing is running the engine at lower than its "sweet spot" temps. this results in higher emissions, worsen engine response, reduced power and increased fuel consumption.
hope this helps.
Last edited by alx; 01-10-2013 at 10:02 AM.
01-10-2013, 10:40 AM
#31
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I'd like to think normal operating coolant temp should be around 80 or so. Before the -10 mod, my car almost consistently ran closer to 100 than it did to 80. Now, it runs right around 80, which is where I like it, and which is where I see NA Benzes that produce much less heat than our supercharged ones.
01-10-2013, 10:53 AM
#32
I'd like to think normal operating coolant temp should be around 80 or so. Before the -10 mod, my car almost consistently ran closer to 100 than it did to 80. Now, it runs right around 80, which is where I like it, and which is where I see NA Benzes that produce much less heat than our supercharged ones.
01-10-2013, 10:57 AM
#33
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This is the best discussion thread I have seen. Both of you guys bring up great points. Thanks for all of the info.
R.K.
R.K.
01-10-2013, 04:22 PM
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let me explain it in a simple manner to you since the whole concept seems to escape you.
you are turning the fans on at lower water temps
lower water temp (overall 10 degrees in this case) results in lower oil temp results in lower block (heads in particular) temp.
lower heads temp (in your case 10 degrees) will impact combustion efficiency.
the only way you will regain this lost efficiency is if at optimal efficiency temps you have other ignition problems (ie timing retard)- which you should not have if your car functions as expected. in that case yes, you lower the temps, the timing gets advanced again and you are making more power. but this means something is wrong somewhere.
the fan temp adjustment in das is there for field adjustments for vehicles in extremely hot climates (read - arab world). under those conditions the cooling system becomes very inertial and the temp upswings need to "intercepted" early by the fan. for any other weather all you are doing is running the engine at lower than its "sweet spot" temps. this results in higher emissions, worsen engine response, reduced power and increased fuel consumption.
hope this helps.
you are turning the fans on at lower water temps
lower water temp (overall 10 degrees in this case) results in lower oil temp results in lower block (heads in particular) temp.
lower heads temp (in your case 10 degrees) will impact combustion efficiency.
the only way you will regain this lost efficiency is if at optimal efficiency temps you have other ignition problems (ie timing retard)- which you should not have if your car functions as expected. in that case yes, you lower the temps, the timing gets advanced again and you are making more power. but this means something is wrong somewhere.
the fan temp adjustment in das is there for field adjustments for vehicles in extremely hot climates (read - arab world). under those conditions the cooling system becomes very inertial and the temp upswings need to "intercepted" early by the fan. for any other weather all you are doing is running the engine at lower than its "sweet spot" temps. this results in higher emissions, worsen engine response, reduced power and increased fuel consumption.
hope this helps.
You keep changing the numbers you cite, and mixing up your statements.
That makes you appear confused, and it's hard to take someone seriously who is inconsistent.
Let me explain how it ACTUALLY works, given that I have experience with this modification, and you do not.
Neither the fans, nor high speed driving can lower the temps enough to harm the engine. Maybe if you live in alaska, or norway and drive in the winter then there is the possibility the engine will never come up to operating temperature. But then, even with this mod activated as I've shown, the fans can sense the outside temperature as being too cold, and WILL NOT TURN ON.
This is not a setting which tells the fan to always run, regardless of the engine and outside temp. The computer takes this all into the equation.
In our temperate climate, (~50-90*f or so, year round) this changes and (for performance) optimizes the fan setting threshold. The setting is there to be adjusted, so you can fine tune the car for the particular climate. I choose to compensate for the added heat of the supercharger compressing the air, and help lower the temperature to the lowest possible.
In addition to my secondary intercooler's liquid to air heat exchanger I've installed, along with the uprated intercooler pump I've fitted, this fan modification continues to draw air across the heat exchangers, thus helping to lower the intake air temps.
If anything, the ECU will see the temps are cooler, and allow MORE TIMING to be set, and thus giving an INCREASE in power.
A trifecta of performance enhancing and heat reducing properties, with the simple change of a setting
If you think oil is better hot, why would the damn car have an OIL COOLER fitted by the radiator?!
These cars are meant to run at 80*c, and they love it.
Since this is too difficult for you to understand, and you have no experience how the settings work and affect the car, I'd hope you can stop posting incorrect information now.
01-10-2013, 04:22 PM
#36
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I'd like to think normal operating coolant temp should be around 80 or so. Before the -10 mod, my car almost consistently ran closer to 100 than it did to 80. Now, it runs right around 80, which is where I like it, and which is where I see NA Benzes that produce much less heat than our supercharged ones.
I agree.
01-10-2013, 04:29 PM
#37
please stop.
and go educate yourself about optimal power-wise coolant and oil temps. plenty is written on the subject.
Last edited by alx; 01-10-2013 at 04:32 PM.
01-10-2013, 04:34 PM
#38
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You failed to answer my original question:
EXPLAIN WHY driving at 70MPH on the freeway for hours on end will NOT OVERCOOL the engine, but running a computer controlled cooling fan, (that does not activate unless 80*c is reached) CAN OVERCOOL the engine?!
The fan creates WAY LESS air flow. And is set by the ECU to only come on at the right times. The conditions that the AMG engineers programmed.
These cars are designed, built and tested in a country where they have no sped limits on some roads. Extended cruising at high speeds will not create "too much air, that harms the engine".
Get a clue.
01-10-2013, 04:48 PM
#40
You failed to answer my original question:
EXPLAIN WHY driving at 70MPH on the freeway for hours on end will NOT OVERCOOL the engine, but running a computer controlled cooling fan, (that does not activate unless 80*c is reached) CAN OVERCOOL the engine?!
The fan creates WAY LESS air flow. And is set by the ECU to only come on at the right times. The conditions that the AMG engineers programmed.
These cars are designed, built and tested in a country where they have no sped limits on some roads. Extended cruising at high speeds will not create "too much air, that harms the engine".
Get a clue.
EXPLAIN WHY driving at 70MPH on the freeway for hours on end will NOT OVERCOOL the engine, but running a computer controlled cooling fan, (that does not activate unless 80*c is reached) CAN OVERCOOL the engine?!
The fan creates WAY LESS air flow. And is set by the ECU to only come on at the right times. The conditions that the AMG engineers programmed.
These cars are designed, built and tested in a country where they have no sped limits on some roads. Extended cruising at high speeds will not create "too much air, that harms the engine".
Get a clue.
if you were to log data as you drive you would know that in normal weather (say 70 degrees) the fans run almost all the time at various speeds even when cruising at 70 mph on the highway. the air flow through the radiator is calculated to be just short of being sufficient to maintain 190 coolant temps on its own. the fans are the ones that give that extra cooling allowing to control the coolant temp. hence the multi-stage fan as opposed to simple on/off.
the fan flow is actually very significant even when compared to the natural flow at say 70 mph. instructing the fans to turn on sooner result in lower overall temp of coolant which result in lower oil temp which results in cooler charge largely negated by all the things i wrote in my previous post. the net result is more often than not the engine losing power.
you asked about the oil cooler- the oil cooler has mechanical valve which on the w215 i believe is set at 230 or even higher (i have to look it up). so dont even go there.
01-10-2013, 05:21 PM
#41
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this post only shows you really have no idea what is happening under the hood.
if you were to log data as you drive you would know that in normal weather (say 70 degrees) the fans run almost all the time at various speeds even when cruising at 70 mph on the highway. the air flow through the radiator is calculated to be just short of being sufficient to maintain 190 coolant temps on its own. the fans are the ones that give that extra cooling allowing to control the coolant temp. hence the multi-stage fan as opposed to simple on/off.
the fan flow is actually very significant even when compared to the natural flow at say 70 mph. instructing the fans to turn on sooner result in lower overall temp of coolant which result in lower oil temp which results in cooler charge largely negated by all the things i wrote in my previous post. the net result is more often than not the engine losing power.
you asked about the oil cooler- the oil cooler has mechanical valve which on the w215 i believe is set at 230 or even higher (i have to look it up). so dont even go there.
if you were to log data as you drive you would know that in normal weather (say 70 degrees) the fans run almost all the time at various speeds even when cruising at 70 mph on the highway. the air flow through the radiator is calculated to be just short of being sufficient to maintain 190 coolant temps on its own. the fans are the ones that give that extra cooling allowing to control the coolant temp. hence the multi-stage fan as opposed to simple on/off.
the fan flow is actually very significant even when compared to the natural flow at say 70 mph. instructing the fans to turn on sooner result in lower overall temp of coolant which result in lower oil temp which results in cooler charge largely negated by all the things i wrote in my previous post. the net result is more often than not the engine losing power.
you asked about the oil cooler- the oil cooler has mechanical valve which on the w215 i believe is set at 230 or even higher (i have to look it up). so dont even go there.
When the temperature is cooler, the car will perform better. More timing can SAFELY be dialed in by the adaptive ECU.
More timing=more combustion pressure.
I agree with you that higher coolant temps do cause higher oil temperature, but that translates to lower oil absolute viscosity= lowered protection in the critical engine areas such as the bearings, camshaft etc.. Including the piston oil sprayers.
Additionally, heightened engine temperatures can also decrease the internal engine clearances as different metals expand at different rates and temps.
"80-100C is normal operating and is within MB spec". But, running at the higher end of this spectrum will acellerate wear on the plastic parts and wires.
Quite many owners of older mercs owners report wire harnesses failing- from excessive heat. hmmm...
I wonder if high heat is not so great for our performance cars, that generate alot of extra heat, via the kompressor?
Yes the oil cooler is there to PREVENT excessive oil temperature.
01-10-2013, 05:26 PM
#42
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So what are you arguing about then, if you say it's not possible to lower the temp below that, even with this mod??
FYI, It's actually a 187*f OEM thermostat.
You really contradict yourself a lot.
01-10-2013, 10:10 PM
#45
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03-17-2013, 11:48 PM
#47
MBWorld Fanatic!
forgot where i found the info, but in the overhead console control of your w215 are a bunch of wires, find the skinniest pair of wires under your console and disconnect them (some people say cut, but i noticed i could just disconnect the jack) have only had the volume jump up once when the car wasnt on and i was playing the radio (i have 2 12 inch subs in my trunk)
03-18-2013, 12:28 AM
#48
MBworld Guru
forgot where i found the info, but in the overhead console control of your w215 are a bunch of wires, find the skinniest pair of wires under your console and disconnect them (some people say cut, but i noticed i could just disconnect the jack) have only had the volume jump up once when the car wasnt on and i was playing the radio (i have 2 12 inch subs in my trunk)
03-18-2013, 04:38 AM
#49
MBWorld Fanatic!
If we're talking about the same issue with the volume being sporadic after adding an aftermarket set up then yeah there's a microphone somewhere deep inside the overhead console that controls lights and ****. Both light covers pop off with slight pressure pushed towards the front of the car. Then there's 4 tabs that hold the overhead console in place. The smallest two wires will be exposed by some sort of plug, I just pulled them out of the plug and have not had issues in at least 3 months since I did it
03-18-2013, 02:07 PM
#50
MBWorld Fanatic!
If we're talking about the same issue with the volume being sporadic after adding an aftermarket set up then yeah there's a microphone somewhere deep inside the overhead console that controls lights and ****. Both light covers pop off with slight pressure pushed towards the front of the car. Then there's 4 tabs that hold the overhead console in place. The smallest two wires will be exposed by some sort of plug, I just pulled them out of the plug and have not had issues in at least 3 months since I did it
Sure but now your voice control module won't work. I enjoy having bluetooth in the car.
R.K.
