HOW TO: -10c Cooling system mod ($30) Best way to lower temps!
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 331
Likes: 9
550HP+ ///AMG CL55 Kompressor, Ducati 916bp, Yamaha R1 WSBK replica
HOW TO: -10c Cooling system mod ($30) Best way to lower temps!
In my quest for an optimized car in all critical areas, I've focused a lot of attention on my cooling system.
One thing that is common on performance cars (oldr and cheaper ones) is to give the fan manual control. Since these cars are pretty sophisticated, and have multiple speeds on the ECU controlled electric fans, and no engine driven fans at all, just going with a manual fan switch is out of the question.
So what you want to do is easy, and only costs roughly $30, or 15mins labor time at any Mercedes garage with the MB STAR Diagnostic tool system.
Following a post here:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ts-o-pics.html
I went to my local garage to test out some settings. Lucky for me 2 friends work there, and they have done business with my company (actually how I met them) and they couldn't be nicer. I'd highly recommend Laguna Motor Works, if you're in the SOCAL Beach cities area, but any Dealer or MB garage will do just fine, as long as they have the Diagnostic system.
Anyhow, the procedure is this:
Have the tech hook up the system, and get in to the "control units"
Then go to "ME 2.8"
Then "Drive"
Then "Control Unit adaptations"
Then "Then Correction Programing"
Then "Electric Suction Fan"
Now, you need to have them hit [F5] to turn the fan on sooner.
It will go up in steps from 0 to -1, -2, -3, up to the Maximum of -10.
That is the infamous Mercedes STAR -10ºc Mod. And it's sweet.
Now the ECU will activate the cooling fan much sooner. My Car ran fine, right around 200ºf. I never heard the fan before. Now, it is at 180ºf even after hard driving, with the A/C on. Works for me! I may turn it down to -7 but only time will tell.
Watch:
One thing that is common on performance cars (oldr and cheaper ones) is to give the fan manual control. Since these cars are pretty sophisticated, and have multiple speeds on the ECU controlled electric fans, and no engine driven fans at all, just going with a manual fan switch is out of the question.
So what you want to do is easy, and only costs roughly $30, or 15mins labor time at any Mercedes garage with the MB STAR Diagnostic tool system.
Following a post here:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ts-o-pics.html
I went to my local garage to test out some settings. Lucky for me 2 friends work there, and they have done business with my company (actually how I met them) and they couldn't be nicer. I'd highly recommend Laguna Motor Works, if you're in the SOCAL Beach cities area, but any Dealer or MB garage will do just fine, as long as they have the Diagnostic system.
Anyhow, the procedure is this:
Have the tech hook up the system, and get in to the "control units"
Then go to "ME 2.8"
Then "Drive"
Then "Control Unit adaptations"
Then "Then Correction Programing"
Then "Electric Suction Fan"
Now, you need to have them hit [F5] to turn the fan on sooner.
It will go up in steps from 0 to -1, -2, -3, up to the Maximum of -10.
That is the infamous Mercedes STAR -10ºc Mod. And it's sweet.
Now the ECU will activate the cooling fan much sooner. My Car ran fine, right around 200ºf. I never heard the fan before. Now, it is at 180ºf even after hard driving, with the A/C on. Works for me! I may turn it down to -7 but only time will tell.
Watch:
Last edited by nidyanazo; Jan 8, 2013 at 09:01 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,268
Likes: 253
You are losing power as the engine achieves maximum fuel atomization and combustion efficiency at 200... to be more precise at 210 oil temp.
The only way you can make power at 180 with this particular engine is if at 210 you have detonations and the ecu has retarded spark and 180 would reduce/ eliminate said detonations and allow ecu to advance timing resulting in more power.
My 2 cents
The only way you can make power at 180 with this particular engine is if at 210 you have detonations and the ecu has retarded spark and 180 would reduce/ eliminate said detonations and allow ecu to advance timing resulting in more power.
My 2 cents
Last edited by alx; Jan 8, 2013 at 10:11 PM.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 331
Likes: 9
550HP+ ///AMG CL55 Kompressor, Ducati 916bp, Yamaha R1 WSBK replica
You are losing power as the engine achieves maximum fuel atomization and combustion efficiency at 200... to be more precise at 210 oil temp.
The only way you can make power at 180 with this particular engine is if at 210 you have detonations and the ecu has retarded spark and 180 would reduce/ eliminate said detonations and allow ecu to advance timing resulting in more power.
My 2 cents
The only way you can make power at 180 with this particular engine is if at 210 you have detonations and the ecu has retarded spark and 180 would reduce/ eliminate said detonations and allow ecu to advance timing resulting in more power.
My 2 cents
This is not oil temp, the display is for water temp. 180* thermostats are common mods for many types of engines- since it's a preferred temp to start circulating the fluid at. That parameter remains unchanged, all this mod does is uses the fans more.
Since the intercooler fluid is shared with the radiator coolant, and the heat exchanger is placed directly in line with the radiator, the more airflow the better.
Now the air intake change will be cooler, and as we all know, cool air is denser, and makes more power.
Why do you think drag racers switch off motors to let them cool down between runs? Ice the intake? Do everything possible to cool the engines down?
The fuel will still atomize just fine. The car runs better then ever, and after repeated hard driving, extended idling, and the a/c on full- the temp gauge is right in the middle, just over 80ºc.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 331
Likes: 9
550HP+ ///AMG CL55 Kompressor, Ducati 916bp, Yamaha R1 WSBK replica
LOL, that's why I was thinking about turning it down to -7.. Hell, even -5 would still activate the fans more then stock.
Glad you're liking it, and let me guess.. Your car runs great? Not having any fuel atomization problems?
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 331
Likes: 9
550HP+ ///AMG CL55 Kompressor, Ducati 916bp, Yamaha R1 WSBK replica
OK good.
And for ALX, When your car is driving at 65mph down the freeway, how much air is passing over the radiator? I'm willing to bet that our fans on FULL BLAST cannot flow as much air over the radiator and heat exchanger, as just normal diving on the freeway. Now remember these cars are designed in a land where you are almost mandated to cruise at over 100MPH for extended periods of time.. The autobahn is a serious test of machinery. Thinking about it now, I'd be really surprised if the fans could flow the equivalent of 30MPH. So Turning them on more often then stock (what this mod does) is akin to just normal driving at higher speeds. Now the car gets the benefit of added airflow over the radiator, H/E, and all the coolers for the ABC, Oil cooler etc.. Even when driving around all day at low speeds, in stop and go traffic etc.. There is no detrimental effect of added airflow. This is a GOOD mod.
Last edited by nidyanazo; Jan 9, 2013 at 03:21 AM.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
,,
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,268
Likes: 253
this mod gained speed with the older chevy and ford v8 blocks as they do not run constant water/ oil temp but vary widely between 180 and 220 depending on thermostat open/close and the high side temp swings hurt timing. however, it is largely irrelevant with any motor that maintains constant water temp (190-210 for most germans). americans vary water temp, germans do not. different schools.
Now the air intake change will be cooler, and as we all know, cool air is denser, and makes more power.
Why do you think drag racers switch off motors to let them cool down between runs? Ice the intake? Do everything possible to cool the engines down?
The fuel will still atomize just fine. The car runs better then ever, and after repeated hard driving, extended idling, and the a/c on full- the temp gauge is right in the middle, just over 80ºc.
Last edited by alx; Jan 9, 2013 at 12:34 PM.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 331
Likes: 9
550HP+ ///AMG CL55 Kompressor, Ducati 916bp, Yamaha R1 WSBK replica
Again you're looking at this all wrong.
It is causing the fan to turn on more often, which is the same as DRIVING.
When you're driving at 30MPH, you're getting the same amount of airflow (if not more) over the radiator. That's why you see temps drop after sitting in a traffic jam, then suddenly going out on the open road. Once moving at speed, you are constantly having air flowing over the radiator, and the car runs great, right? Well that's all this simulates.
Once moving, the fans turn off because of the increased airflow equalizes. They are very smart fans. Don't come on at night either.
It is causing the fan to turn on more often, which is the same as DRIVING.
When you're driving at 30MPH, you're getting the same amount of airflow (if not more) over the radiator. That's why you see temps drop after sitting in a traffic jam, then suddenly going out on the open road. Once moving at speed, you are constantly having air flowing over the radiator, and the car runs great, right? Well that's all this simulates.
Once moving, the fans turn off because of the increased airflow equalizes. They are very smart fans. Don't come on at night either.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,268
Likes: 253
Again you're looking at this all wrong.
It is causing the fan to turn on more often, which is the same as DRIVING.
When you're driving at 30MPH, you're getting the same amount of airflow (if not more) over the radiator. That's why you see temps drop after sitting in a traffic jam, then suddenly going out on the open road. Once moving at speed, you are constantly having air flowing over the radiator, and the car runs great, right? Well that's all this simulates.
Once moving, the fans turn off because of the increased airflow equalizes. They are very smart fans. Don't come on at night either.
It is causing the fan to turn on more often, which is the same as DRIVING.
When you're driving at 30MPH, you're getting the same amount of airflow (if not more) over the radiator. That's why you see temps drop after sitting in a traffic jam, then suddenly going out on the open road. Once moving at speed, you are constantly having air flowing over the radiator, and the car runs great, right? Well that's all this simulates.
Once moving, the fans turn off because of the increased airflow equalizes. They are very smart fans. Don't come on at night either.
your car has a 190 thermostat from the factory and you are not dropping your coolant temp below that regardless of the fan duty.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 331
Likes: 9
550HP+ ///AMG CL55 Kompressor, Ducati 916bp, Yamaha R1 WSBK replica
Very slightly. The car keeps the needle just slightly over 80*C. Which is in the center of the gauge. In heavy traffic, or after lots of hard driving it can get up to 90* or so.
Before it would never turn the fan on. Now it does, and keeps temps right at 80* all the time. 80*Celsius equates to 176* Fahrenheit.
Before it would never turn the fan on. Now it does, and keeps temps right at 80* all the time. 80*Celsius equates to 176* Fahrenheit.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,268
Likes: 253
Very slightly. The car keeps the needle just slightly over 80*C. Which is in the center of the gauge. In heavy traffic, or after lots of hard driving it can get up to 90* or so.
Before it would never turn the fan on. Now it does, and keeps temps right at 80* all the time. 80*Celsius equates to 176* Fahrenheit.
Before it would never turn the fan on. Now it does, and keeps temps right at 80* all the time. 80*Celsius equates to 176* Fahrenheit.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,559
Likes: 79
2015 Challenger Hellcat, 2023 Ram 3500, 2005 E55 Wagon, 2019 GLC63s
My temp guage reads the same as the OP. After hard driving its sitting at 90. Is that okay? It won't come back down to 80 for a while if ever (unless I turn off the car).
R.K.
R.K.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 331
Likes: 9
550HP+ ///AMG CL55 Kompressor, Ducati 916bp, Yamaha R1 WSBK replica
YES it's fine 90*C is 194*f.
Alx would like to see our cars always running at 100*C which is 212*f
That's why his logic is flawed, since MB engineered these cars to run right around 80*c, which is 176*f.
My question above was to see what he would answer, but it looks like he realized that.
Alx would like to see our cars always running at 100*C which is 212*f
That's why his logic is flawed, since MB engineered these cars to run right around 80*c, which is 176*f.
My question above was to see what he would answer, but it looks like he realized that.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 331
Likes: 9
550HP+ ///AMG CL55 Kompressor, Ducati 916bp, Yamaha R1 WSBK replica
If ALX was right, then our cars would always be driving around with the temp gauge reading 100*.
See, what this mod does is helps keep the cars at the lowest NORMAL operating temp. There is no was to change the temp that the thermostat opens, unless you remove and replace it with one of a different temp.
See, what this mod does is helps keep the cars at the lowest NORMAL operating temp. There is no was to change the temp that the thermostat opens, unless you remove and replace it with one of a different temp.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,268
Likes: 253
to be honest i have seen different cars settle differently anywhere between 180 and 190 degrees for water temps, but whatever they point at it should not deviate more than 5 degrees during operation. that is if a car shows 180 it should not go over 185 unless extreme conditions/ or driving (ie going wot for miles). the stock fan cycle is appropriate for maintaining this in most climates.
i personally like to see the 55 kompressor motors at 180 water and 210-220 oil and charge air 25-30 degrees above ambient at cruising.
the v12tt motors run a little hotter for improving turbo response.
i personally like to see the 55 kompressor motors at 180 water and 210-220 oil and charge air 25-30 degrees above ambient at cruising.
the v12tt motors run a little hotter for improving turbo response.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 331
Likes: 9
550HP+ ///AMG CL55 Kompressor, Ducati 916bp, Yamaha R1 WSBK replica
I'm sorry but you are contradicting yourself. Those numbers don't add up!
Also,
The only way you can make power at 180 with this particular engine is if at 210 you have detonations and the ecu has retarded spark and 180 would reduce/ eliminate said detonations and allow ecu to advance timing resulting in more power......
.....i personally like to see the 55 kompressor motors at 180 water
.....i personally like to see the 55 kompressor motors at 180 water
You are not making sense.
Again the numbers are not consistent either.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,268
Likes: 253
under normal driving water/oil difference is typically 10 degrees. however, when you start pushing oil temps can be 20 and more degrees higher than water. water is easily controlled via the fans. water- not so even if you have a large oil cooler. hence the 180 water and 210-220 oil that i like to see when pushing those cars.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 331
Likes: 9
550HP+ ///AMG CL55 Kompressor, Ducati 916bp, Yamaha R1 WSBK replica
Ok great. So we agree then. My whole thing was about getting the engine to maintain 180* f. This mod helps achieve this, under all driving conditions. If it's cold out, the fans do not activate. Anyways even it they did, there's no way to "OVERCOOL"the engine via flowing too much AIR over it!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,268
Likes: 253
Ok great. So we agree then. My whole thing was about getting the engine to maintain 180* f. This mod helps achieve this, under all driving conditions. If it's cold out, the fans do not activate. Anyways even it they did, there's no way to "OVERCOOL"the engine via flowing too much AIR over it!
and you can absolutely overcool the engine in cooler weather if you prolong the fan duty cycle. there is a reason the stock setting is where it is. you think you are smarter than the amg engineers?
your mod's effectiveness ranges from "makes no difference" (in warm weather) to "can hurt power by overcooling engine" in cooler weather
