When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
i'm not aware of many problems with the superchargers...just saying when you add a bunch of goodies to a car, thats more things that can go wrong with it. common sense really. hence the ABC suspension when so many other cars handle fine without hydraulics, a perfect example really
I bought a CL55 for the engine, the M113K is a great and reliable engine producing close to 500HP it's still relatively simple and DIY repairable. My calculation is that if you shop around, you can get most parts for far less than what you might see from a dealer. Yes, some of the parts are ridiculously expensive like the $600 idler pulley or the $250 tensioner, but all in all the car holds up well. The key is regular maintenance, I just finished a 4000-mile road trip in a car with over 100,000 miles and it all went very well with some spirited driving in the mix. As far as I'm concerned this is probably the most bang for your buck in spite of average 17mpg and the cost of maintenance assuming you do your own work. I'm more confident working on this car than my wife's hybrid CT200h. God forbid something should go wrong with that. I rather enjoy my car even when I'm changing plugs, or trying to figure out how to get a set of RCA's from my new Android head unit to my new aftermarket amp in the trunk because I bought an 03 instead of an 04.
Buy one! I did even with reading about ABC issues - does it concern me that it might have ABC problems at some point? sure - but then they go away the second I push the pedal on my M113K w/stage 3 that produces 600+ hp -- like its been said, ABC and the SC are what makes this car a blast to drive!
Mercedes S550 Coupe (now) CL55 (until last March 3), Ferrari 612, Porsche Macan GTS
For all of you that have a CL cherish them and for those thinking of buying them, buy them. The CL is the pinnacle of MB engineering likely not to be seen again. I had my CL55 for 10 years and, as I have said many times, it was the best car I ever owned and I would have never sold it. I lost it in an accident and then replaced it with a 2016 S Class coupe which I owned for exactly one year and dumped. The S Class is a total piece of garbage and handles like a brick. In my humble opinion Mercedes has lost interest in making a world class GT car, which is what the CL is. So the CL is a unique diamond. Enjoy it.
2003 CL55 AMG 2019 C300 Coupe 2017 AMG GTS 2020 A 220
I agree.
I have had mine for 12 years and have loved it through the mostly ups and a few downs, my ABC just crapped out and now I am pondering which aftermarket replacement coil overs, I just ordered an AMG GTC, seriously thinking of selling off my CL finally to make room, I will be sad but I know someone with a passion for this amazing car will take care of it.
I have had mine for 12 years and have loved it through the mostly ups and a few downs, my ABC just crapped out and now I am pondering which aftermarket replacement coil overs, I just ordered an AMG GTC, seriously thinking of selling off my CL finally to make room, I will be sad but I know someone with a passion for this amazing car will take care of it.
2003 CL55 AMG 2019 C300 Coupe 2017 AMG GTS 2020 A 220
It's gonna cost way more to fix the ABC, and then I am gonna sell it anyway so I will lose more money unfortunately, and a lot of people want the CL55 without the ABC hassle now.
Mercedes S550 Coupe (now) CL55 (until last March 3), Ferrari 612, Porsche Macan GTS
Originally Posted by t3flondon
It's gonna cost way more to fix the ABC, and then I am gonna sell it anyway so I will lose more money unfortunately, and a lot of people want the CL55 without the ABC hassle now.
I think you are between a rock and a hard place. If you put coil overs on it I doubt anyone will want it. If you intend to keep it and drive it yourself that is one thing. But you say you intend to sell it. I think if you put coil overs on it, now you maybe have a $5K car at best. So what is the point? Better to sell it for parts.
Anybody that is going to pay anything for this car is looking for a well maintained original car with all of the goodies. Once you start altering the engine or the ABC system then you are eliminating the majority of buyers.
Mercedes S550 Coupe (now) CL55 (until last March 3), Ferrari 612, Porsche Macan GTS
If you read t3flondon’s post (which I was commenting on) he was suggesting putting coil overs on his car in order to sell it. Obviously, as I stated, a bad idea in terms of being able to sell the car. Keeping the car was not part of his consideration.
It's gonna cost way more to fix the ABC, and then I am gonna sell it anyway so I will lose more money unfortunately, and a lot of people want the CL55 without the ABC hassle now.
Agreed. At the price point you will need to be in order to sell the car, the buyer will likely be someone who wants a high end ride for low initial and low long term costs. Without ABC, the CL is a reliable car. Handling aside, it's a smart move to get the car ready to sell without spending a ton of money.
Get the strutmasters kit, and upgrade them to stiffer springs like Mike Dzurko did in his rear mount turbo CL600 and you’ll not regret getting rid of abc, nor will your future buyers. The abc is known as the Achilles heel of this car, it’s one of the first things that deters prospective buyers when they start googling “w215 issues”
2003 CL55 AMG 2019 C300 Coupe 2017 AMG GTS 2020 A 220
I have owned mine for over 12 years, had great times with it, slight mods, chip, secondary cats delete, some carbon, but it was just my daily driver as I have a few exotics as well, but after dealing with the ABC woes over and over and a AMG GTR coming, it's time to let it go, I could either sell it as is, or sell it for parts which is a shame as everything is in great shape except the ABC leak, would I pay up to 4 or 5 k to fix it, nope, the car is not worth it, will I pay 2k to add coilovers so someone can enjoy the power and fun of the car without worry of the dreaded ABC fail, maybe, that's where I am now, I would keep it but have no room when the new Beast arrives. I don't have time to part it out, except for maybe pulling the carbon fiber rear diffuser.
In short love the car but can't drop more $$$ into it as the Beast will need some pampering and nail polish when it arrives
Mercedes S550 Coupe (now) CL55 (until last March 3), Ferrari 612, Porsche Macan GTS
T3flondon, your CL55 sounds like a great car for you (I had my CL55 for 10 years and enjoyed every minute). At this point it now sounds like it is just a dollars and cents issue for you. So the question is, what kind of shape is your car in apart from the ABC and that might impact the value that you are going to get on resale.
To give you a feel for the market, right now there are 83 CLs for sale on Auto Trader. The price range is $2,999 to $24,500. All of the higher priced cars are low mileage, pristine cars. For the right buyer he will pay the higher end (which is not that much higher than the low end for a car of this quality) but he is going to want a really good CL55 or CL65 in original condition with all the goodies and well maintained (I know, I am one of those and have been looking at all of the ads). The low priced cars have been around the block a few times. In between there are a range of conditions and some of the ads even talk about having fixed the ABC system. But the point is, none of the ads talk about taking out the ABC system and replacing it with a coil over system. So I don't think coil overs are a selling feature and you are likely to be automatically placed at the lower end of the price range if you do it. If the price difference is just $2 or $3K and you have an otherwise well maintained car then you really should think about fixing the ABC. I think you will likely lose at least that much in resale value by going the coil over route and you are also creating a “story” which will likely result in taking longer to sell your car. With so much inventory out there without such a “story” why would someone buy your car when they can buy one without such a “story”.
I see you live in MDR. Five Star Automotive in Costa Mesa maintained my CL55 for its entire life. They really, really know CLs (since there are a ton of them in Newport Beach). You might want to give them a call about the cost of repairing your ABC and perhaps the value hit with coilovers (full disclosure, I will tell you they are not fans). They may also have clients that are interested in your CL, I sold my old E55 through them years ago.
T3flondon, your CL55 sounds like a great car for you (I had my CL55 for 10 years and enjoyed every minute). At this point it now sounds like it is just a dollars and cents issue for you. So the question is, what kind of shape is your car in apart from the ABC and that might impact the value that you are going to get on resale.
To give you a feel for the market, right now there are 83 CLs for sale on Auto Trader. The price range is $2,999 to $24,500. All of the higher priced cars are low mileage, pristine cars. For the right buyer he will pay the higher end (which is not that much higher than the low end for a car of this quality) but he is going to want a really good CL55 or CL65 in original condition with all the goodies and well maintained (I know, I am one of those and have been looking at all of the ads). The low priced cars have been around the block a few times. In between there are a range of conditions and some of the ads even talk about having fixed the ABC system. But the point is, none of the ads talk about taking out the ABC system and replacing it with a coil over system. So I don't think coil overs are a selling feature and you are likely to be automatically placed at the lower end of the price range if you do it. If the price difference is just $2 or $3K and you have an otherwise well maintained car then you really should think about fixing the ABC. I think you will likely lose at least that much in resale value by going the coil over route and you are also creating a “story” which will likely result in taking longer to sell your car. With so much inventory out there without such a “story” why would someone buy your car when they can buy one without such a “story”.
I see you live in MDR. Five Star Automotive in Costa Mesa maintained my CL55 for its entire life. They really, really know CLs (since there are a ton of them in Newport Beach). You might want to give them a call about the cost of repairing your ABC and perhaps the value hit with coilovers (full disclosure, I will tell you they are not fans). They may also have clients that are interested in your CL, I sold my old E55 through them years ago.
I fully agree with your suggestion, not to eliminate the ABC system....My first 2001 CL500 had over 350.000 kms on it, my present 2001 CL500 has now over 250.000 kms. Of course I had several issues with the ABC, but comparing the ride with my E350 4-matic, there is nothing like ABC.....
Abc can be sweet but go ahead and drive a coilover car with the right setup and I think you’ll find the coilover conversion to be very logical. Most people who denounce coilover swaps, ironically have no experience driving a converted car... I believe Mercedes half hazardly released the w215 into the world with a large lack of a service schedule for the abc system... do not forget this was the same era of Mercedes who claimed the 722.6 transmission fluid should “never be changed, and will last the lifetime of the transmission”, which is utter rubbish.
I believe those who denounce the coilover swap without trying it, expect the car to handle like a 1969 American sedan. However, with real world experience I have found the w215 to not be bad with coilovers, even without installing sway bars. I imagine a high caliber setup with nicely tuned sways and springs could be a really nice setup.
For this reason I think it’s nearly impossible to find a w215 specimen that actually received the abc maintenance it deserved and not an “oh **** yea we probably SHOULD change the fluid and filter someday” maintenance. Hence investing much faith into a w215 with abc coming into the year 2020 is a bit of a fools errand in my opinion
I found one coilover kit I really liked and I found another two that were very similar (yellow speed and ceika brands) that are hit or miss. I had some slight qualms about the system I liked, and got lazy and never bothered trying upgraded lowering springs /etc. the yellow speed and ceika kits can get a bit squirrelly at high speed road imperfections. Strutmasters kit with some better springs would make a wonderfully reliable combination of handling and reliability
The w215 was the abc guinea pig for Mercedes, iirc it was the first Mercedes to feature abc. this theory is further supported by the many claims and videos of w215’s catching on fire with the abc hose hazardly routed over the transmission bell housing. Let’s build a car with lots of magnesium and some hit or miss hydraulics, yea?
Abc can be sweet but go ahead and drive a coilover car with the right setup and I think you’ll find the coilover conversion to be very logical. Most people who denounce coilover swaps, ironically have no experience driving a converted car... I believe Mercedes half hazardly released the w215 into the world with a large lack of a service schedule for the abc system... do not forget this was the same era of Mercedes who claimed the 722.6 transmission fluid should “never be changed, and will last the lifetime of the transmission”, which is utter rubbish.
I believe those who denounce the coilover swap without trying it, expect the car to handle like a 1969 American sedan. However, with real world experience I have found the w215 to not be bad with coilovers, even without installing sway bars. I imagine a high caliber setup with nicely tuned sways and springs could be a really nice setup.
For this reason I think it’s nearly impossible to find a w215 specimen that actually received the abc maintenance it deserved and not an “oh **** yea we probably SHOULD change the fluid and filter someday” maintenance. Hence investing much faith into a w215 with abc coming into the year 2020 is a bit of a fools errand in my opinion
I found one coilover kit I really liked and I found another two that were very similar (yellow speed and ceika brands) that are hit or miss. I had some slight qualms about the system I liked, and got lazy and never bothered trying upgraded lowering springs /etc. the yellow speed and ceika kits can get a bit squirrelly at high speed road imperfections. Strutmasters kit with some better springs would make a wonderfully reliable combination of handling and reliability
The w215 was the abc guinea pig for Mercedes, iirc it was the first Mercedes to feature abc. this theory is further supported by the many claims and videos of w215’s catching on fire with the abc hose hazardly routed over the transmission bell housing. Let’s build a car with lots of magnesium and some hit or miss hydraulics, yea?
I own a few ABC W215 cars, 06 55 with 60k. I scoured the internet for 6 months, 2 hours a day, looking for the right car, no issues, all maintenance records etc. I found one and pulled the trigger, probably paid too much but oh well. The car I bought was owned by one man, a engineer. Thankfully, he had ABC serviced every 12k, and the transmission every 30k. I have now owned the car for 3 years and 4K. ABC is serviced every 6 months and the trans was serviced when I received the car from Florida. Properly maintained cars are out there, but with such a small pool of vehicles to originally pull from, the numbers will be low.
I don’t really think ABC is hit or miss. I agree it was a blunder by Mercedes not to have a service interval, but shouldn’t the owners common sense take precedent? In the history of automobiles, there hasn’t been a fluid that doesn’t need to be serviced, and now all of a sudden there are two that will last a lifetime on one vehicle. I know we always serviced them.
Last edited by Werkstatt310; 11-08-2019 at 02:14 AM.
I own a few ABC W215 cars, 06 55 with 60k. I scoured the internet for 6 months, 2 hours a day, looking for the right car, no issues, all maintenance records etc. I found one and pulled the trigger, probably paid too much but oh well. The car I bought was owned by one man, a engineer. Thankfully, he had ABC serviced every 12k, and the transmission every 30k. I have now owned the car for 3 years and 4K. ABC is serviced every 6 months and the trans was serviced when I received the car from Florida. Properly maintained cars are out there, but with such a small pool of vehicles to originally pull from, the numbers will be low.
I don’t really think ABC is hit or miss. I agree it was a blunder by Mercedes not to have a service interval, but shouldn’t the owners common sense take precedent? In the history of automobiles, there hasn’t been a fluid that doesn’t need to be serviced, and now all of a sudden there are two that will last a lifetime on one vehicle. I know we always serviced them.
I totally agree that your car is reliable if you have the service history, but when they haven't been meticulously over-maintained it is a rabbit hole you are going into. From my research before buying my CL, the ABC suspension once it starts failing it is a done deal. There is always contamination from the failed parts and deteriorating internals that will accelerate the process. You have to consider the newest W215 CL's are 13 years old now and the oldest ones are almost 20 years old. There is no maintenance that will help these cars now and in the future unless you replace the whole system. Meaning Struts, Pumps, Accumulators, Valves, O-rings, Hoses, Electronics, and not to mention the labor and frustration of driving around playing whack-a-mole spending thousands of dollars at each repair.
As my best option I changed to coilovers. The options of Yellowspeed and Strutmasters leave alot to be desired in terms of correct spring rates and shock valving, meaning you dont get the best quality ride. I have tried to adjust my Yellowspeeds every way possible and there is always a compromise between low speed comfort with high speed bounciness or high speed stability and low speed harshness. I am considering purchasing CEIKA brand coilovers that have separate compression and rebound adjustment valving. They also offer dual comfort springs to handle the first 1" of travel softly. This set should ride leaps and bounds better over Yellowspeed and Strutmasters. The ultimate set up would be if a company like Ohlins, known for quality racing suspension made a set of struts for these cars. This forum would be raving about how the coilover conversion is the only way. My guess is a set of Ohlins (if they made them) would be in the $4,000- $6,000 range. With some of these cars being pristine and the CL65 being so rare it would be a worthy upgrade.
Just my 2 cents,
Rick
coilovers that have separate compression and rebound adjustment valving and comfort springs. to handle the first 1" of travel softly.
2M allows for further adjustability, fine tuning and cooler temperature thanks to its external reservoirs and separated compression and rebound adjustment with 15 clicks x 2
I totally agree that your car is reliable if you have the service history, but when they haven't been meticulously over-maintained it is a rabbit hole you are going into. From my research before buying my CL, the ABC suspension once it starts failing it is a done deal. There is always contamination from the failed parts and deteriorating internals that will accelerate the process. You have to consider the newest W215 CL's are 13 years old now and the oldest ones are almost 20 years old. There is no maintenance that will help these cars now and in the future unless you replace the whole system. Meaning Struts, Pumps, Accumulators, Valves, O-rings, Hoses, Electronics, and not to mention the labor and frustration of driving around playing whack-a-mole spending thousands of dollars at each repair.
As my best option I changed to coilovers. The options of Yellowspeed and Strutmasters leave alot to be desired in terms of correct spring rates and shock valving, meaning you dont get the best quality ride. I have tried to adjust my Yellowspeeds every way possible and there is always a compromise between low speed comfort with high speed bounciness or high speed stability and low speed harshness. I am considering purchasing CEIKA brand coilovers that have separate compression and rebound adjustment valving. They also offer dual comfort springs to handle the first 1" of travel softly. This set should ride leaps and bounds better over Yellowspeed and Strutmasters. The ultimate set up would be if a company like Ohlins, known for quality racing suspension made a set of struts for these cars. This forum would be raving about how the coilover conversion is the only way. My guess is a set of Ohlins (if they made them) would be in the $4,000- $6,000 range. With some of these cars being pristine and the CL65 being so rare it would be a worthy upgrade.
Just my 2 cents,
Rick
coilovers that have separate compression and rebound adjustment valving and comfort springs. to handle the first 1" of travel softly.
2M allows for further adjustability, fine tuning and cooler temperature thanks to its external reservoirs and separated compression and rebound adjustment with 15 clicks x 2
I agree with the vast majority of that, but I have a bit of a different take. These were massively expensive cars when new. The suspension technology installed made sense based on the high entry cost. A 15 year old car will need maintenance, I consider that a good run. You can rebuild the entire abc system including struts for five or six grand, I think that’s a deal for how great the system works. Try replacing suspension on a 911, or even a suburban with electromagnetic suspension, it’s 3 grand.
The main cause for Mercedes going away from abc was combining ps and suspension fluid, it fails, lowers and you have manual steering. Very dangerous. In fact, a few months ago I had a customer that had a sl600. The owner gave the car to her 18 year old son to use. He came in for an oil change and we noted a massive hydraulic fluid leak. My manager told the kid that he should absolutely not drive the vehicle, told him exactly how dangerous it was etc. he called the mother, she didn’t answer. I had my my manager put a very descriptive warning on his invoice. So he pays for his oil change and leaves. The mother calls back fifteen minutes later asking what the reason for the call was. I explained to her just how serious the situation was. Her response was that she would have absolutely left the car for the necessary repairs, but that her son left the shop and within a mile, the red abc light came on, the car lowered, and power steering had failed, because of this, the son looked down at the gauges and rear ended someone totaling the car. Absolutely insane scenario.
I agree with a lot of your post, as usual Puerto Rick
I believe I have found the ideal abc alternative setup for the w215 without spending thousands and thousands
i was speaking with Mike Dzurko who did the first rear mount turbo v12 w215 and he installed custom springs on his strutmasters kit.
The strutmasters kit has adequate shocks, it’s the springs and spring heights that leave much to be desired. Through tuning the springs and trimming them to a suitable ride height, I believe this(with the addition of sway bars to allow a reasonable spring rate) could be the best bang for the buck. This is probably what I will do if I have any major issues with my yellowspeed kit because I like the custom ride height, but the coilovers leave much to be desired as you suggest
another cool thing about the Cieka kit is it offers a air-ride cushion to adjust ride height on the fly. Nice little addition for sub $1000...
05-23-2019, 10:52 AM
