Supercharger
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,833
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From: Atlanta
Current: AMG GT-C. Sold: 01 CLK55, 00 ML55, 01 ML55, 06 E55
Supercharger
I want to do a supercharger retrofit for my 99 430. I can't afford $9k for Kleemann, and it would be more fun/challenging to do it on my own. Who knows, maybe I can open a shop for this type of thing one day. Has anyone had a custom kit installed or done an install on another vehicle before? I want all the info I can get. I found an AMG supercharger for a good deal...people say it might be too much for the engine though. Yet, MB's are supposed to have some of the most reliable engines? People slap superchargers and turbos on all kinds of vehicles. If i'm running under 10 psi, is it really going to need new internals to last 50k more miles easily? (at 75k now) I'm a graduating Mechanical Engineer, going to Georgia Tech for grad school in the fall. I thought this might be a nice 1-2 yr project for me while I'm finishing up. I have access to a machine shop to deal with the fabrication and making things come together. However, I don't know what types of fuel injectors, etc need to be replaced I'm sure I can use the IC Engines stuff I've learned to find a reasonable boost and work w/ timings. The power would be sweet, but more than anything, I'd really just like to overcome the challenge. Any ideas, experience or suggestions?
I also wonder about the difference between the twin screw and roots superchargers vs the centrifugal ones for MB's...
I also wonder about the difference between the twin screw and roots superchargers vs the centrifugal ones for MB's...
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 626
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From: Los Angeles, CA
'03 E55 (My Daily), '01 ML 320 (Wifey), Twin Turbo '69 Camaro (In Progess)
You sound mechanically savvy and this could be a good project for you. In the interest of asving lots of time, money, and pain, I would avoid going with the AMG compressor or any screw-type or rotor-based derivative. Talk to Josh K on the forums about the House of Power (HoP). They developed a Vortech centrifugal kit that works very well on a 430 motor. I believe his boost levels were running somewhere in the neighborhood of 4-6 psi w/o an intercooler (aftercooler with Vortech) and he was getting zero detonation on pump gas with fuel enrichment via FMU from Vortech using factory injectors. HoP does have an intercooled kit available for more money, but you'll still pay less than if you went to Renntech or Kleemann. Check them out at http://hopracing.com/. Also there was someone who used a procharger and got it mounted on their car, but I think they ran into some serious tuning issues. All things considered, I think the HoP kit is well engineered from what I have seen. Best of luck and let us know how you progress.
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From: The Heights, CA
Tesla Model S
Actually it was a little less than that, but I always laugh when people think that vortech kits should be 4k because they make kits for mustangs priced around that. That happens for a few reasons:
1. Vortech makes the kit so they don't have to pay a premium on their own supercharger
2. The hardware included in their kits is second rate and their piping is usually plastic/cheap.
3. The sheer number of mustangs on the road whose owners buy superchargers vs. the number of CLK owners that do is ridiculous. There's a reason performance parts for Mercedes cost more than parts for Fords and Hondas (and it's not always because they figure we have deeper pockets) - there's simply not enough of a buyer base to offset research/development costs and so the parts tend to be more expensive because no one makes them.
Case in point, if you were to add up the prices on every piece that went into my kit, the difference between the parts cost and the final price wouldn't be huge. Sure, HoP could have used second rate parts and saved money, but then they'd be HPS lol (and the kit would still cost the same and would blow your motor)
1. Vortech makes the kit so they don't have to pay a premium on their own supercharger
2. The hardware included in their kits is second rate and their piping is usually plastic/cheap.
3. The sheer number of mustangs on the road whose owners buy superchargers vs. the number of CLK owners that do is ridiculous. There's a reason performance parts for Mercedes cost more than parts for Fords and Hondas (and it's not always because they figure we have deeper pockets) - there's simply not enough of a buyer base to offset research/development costs and so the parts tend to be more expensive because no one makes them.
Case in point, if you were to add up the prices on every piece that went into my kit, the difference between the parts cost and the final price wouldn't be huge. Sure, HoP could have used second rate parts and saved money, but then they'd be HPS lol (and the kit would still cost the same and would blow your motor)
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,697
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From: Santa Ana, CA
E320CDI, CLK55, and a Smart
whoa, looked who emerged from the WoW.
Actually it was a little less than that, but I always laugh when people think that vortech kits should be 4k because they make kits for mustangs priced around that. That happens for a few reasons:
1. Vortech makes the kit so they don't have to pay a premium on their own supercharger
2. The hardware included in their kits is second rate and their piping is usually plastic/cheap.
3. The sheer number of mustangs on the road whose owners buy superchargers vs. the number of CLK owners that do is ridiculous. There's a reason performance parts for Mercedes cost more than parts for Fords and Hondas (and it's not always because they figure we have deeper pockets) - there's simply not enough of a buyer base to offset research/development costs and so the parts tend to be more expensive because no one makes them.
Case in point, if you were to add up the prices on every piece that went into my kit, the difference between the parts cost and the final price wouldn't be huge. Sure, HoP could have used second rate parts and saved money, but then they'd be HPS lol (and the kit would still cost the same and would blow your motor)
1. Vortech makes the kit so they don't have to pay a premium on their own supercharger
2. The hardware included in their kits is second rate and their piping is usually plastic/cheap.
3. The sheer number of mustangs on the road whose owners buy superchargers vs. the number of CLK owners that do is ridiculous. There's a reason performance parts for Mercedes cost more than parts for Fords and Hondas (and it's not always because they figure we have deeper pockets) - there's simply not enough of a buyer base to offset research/development costs and so the parts tend to be more expensive because no one makes them.
Case in point, if you were to add up the prices on every piece that went into my kit, the difference between the parts cost and the final price wouldn't be huge. Sure, HoP could have used second rate parts and saved money, but then they'd be HPS lol (and the kit would still cost the same and would blow your motor)
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From: Atlanta
Current: AMG GT-C. Sold: 01 CLK55, 00 ML55, 01 ML55, 06 E55
I'm thinking I can do it under $2500 total (not counting my time labor value) The costs will be:
a) supercharger
b) intercooler
c) fuel injectors
d) ECU tuning
The hardware, which is the expensive part because of engineer's time, will be done by me, so cost should be little to nothing. The ECU tuning will hopefully be done by a bunch w/ the right software that is at least interested in seeing what happens, so maybe i won't get raped there. So the costs i'm talking about are in material goods mostly. $1200 for supercharger, $300 or so for the intercooler, $200 for injectors, who knows about tuning, and tons of time and effort in making the hardware.
a) supercharger
b) intercooler
c) fuel injectors
d) ECU tuning
The hardware, which is the expensive part because of engineer's time, will be done by me, so cost should be little to nothing. The ECU tuning will hopefully be done by a bunch w/ the right software that is at least interested in seeing what happens, so maybe i won't get raped there. So the costs i'm talking about are in material goods mostly. $1200 for supercharger, $300 or so for the intercooler, $200 for injectors, who knows about tuning, and tons of time and effort in making the hardware.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,697
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From: Santa Ana, CA
E320CDI, CLK55, and a Smart
Good luck. You are probably underbudgeted by $2500. Don't forget you will need:
e) FMU (vortech super FMU or cartech)
f) Kenny Bell Boost-a-pump
g) colder plugs
h) Custom made pulley (use a E55 pulley as a donor to keep it harmonically balanced).
i) custom mandrel bend 3.5" tubing
j) silicone connecting hoses and clamps
this is all I can remember now.
e) FMU (vortech super FMU or cartech)
f) Kenny Bell Boost-a-pump
g) colder plugs
h) Custom made pulley (use a E55 pulley as a donor to keep it harmonically balanced).
i) custom mandrel bend 3.5" tubing
j) silicone connecting hoses and clamps
this is all I can remember now.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 626
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From: Los Angeles, CA
'03 E55 (My Daily), '01 ML 320 (Wifey), Twin Turbo '69 Camaro (In Progess)
$1200 for the blower? I would guess that is feasible if getting one of eBay. I did that and also picked up a three core intercooler off the site and it ran fine in my other car for years. I agree that your estimate is a bit low but you can mitigate these costs buy shopping sites like eBay to get the stuff at significantly lower prices. Are you planning on doing your own tuning? I would hate to melt a piston in a Benz motor from leaning it out too much.
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Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,833
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From: Atlanta
Current: AMG GT-C. Sold: 01 CLK55, 00 ML55, 01 ML55, 06 E55
No I will need help with the tuning. I've talked to several people interested in helping who have performed multiple supercharger installs on vehicles. I am a graduate student with access to a machine shop for many of the parts. A guy who helped design many mazda engines (esp the rotary ones in the rx-7 and 8). He can get a magnuson/eaton mp112 for $1k. He thinks $2000 will put the full kit together. I feel this is slightly low. I plan to not buy parts from mercedes, vortech, or any direct line that charges an arm and a leg. I also shop for deals before I purchase items. I have a lead on an AMG 5.5L supercharger for under $1200 also.
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From: The Heights, CA
Tesla Model S
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From: KCMO, but Houston is my home.
01 CLK 430
