GBD

WDC Thanks for the reply. That sure is funny. The box that my filter's come in is two tone gray with a blue square. In that blue square is the Mercedes logo. Now you have got to think about where I am from... N.C. You guys up North always get things before we do down South. So probably you have the newest filter. I had never heard of sucking the oil out, only on boat engines. So what do I know!!

techbike

Just as an aside, all MB dealers suck the oil from the dipstick hole. If the oil is warm and still doing its job of keeping contaminants in suspension, there's not much chance of "sludge" staying at the bottom of the pan.
Debris that's too big to be suspended and caught by the filter is probably a piece of a pretty important internal part and if it came or broke off, that engine is probably running pretty bad and in need of more than an oil change.

Serndipity

Everything you need to know and have is here

http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy_oil_change2.htm

guanabara

impurities are trapped by the oil filter. Just change it every 5000 miles no matter what FSS says.
As far as using those cheap made ib C. pumps I would stay away from them. I bought one and it is the cheapest piece of junk I have seen a car store sell.
The pipes are so cheap that they almost melt down on your hands if you let the oil/ engine warm up too much. In addition it is quite messy.
There are some very good and clean vaccum pumps that use either electric power or hiuman power. One I use and recommend is called TopSider. Most marine stores carry them.

As far as oil goes, my question was: Ok now I have a car that is the top of the engineering art of cars. It costs quite a bit to own and repair. Therefore, since I am going to change the oil by myself then let me find out what is the best oilo in the market that will allow me to follow the FSS schedule without worries and in addition protect the car engine better than any synthetic or not engine oil in the market.

I found that oil, it is called AMSOIL. It has been in the market since 1970s. It is mostly used by the transportation industry and also police fleet at several cities, It does out perform anything I have ever used.

I have posted on other listings on this subject and so in the interest of saving my fingers and time , I will post a copy of the details below:

braking the myth...
3000 or 5000 miles oil change?

Finally I found an oil that can safely be used while following the FSS change intervals. It is made in the USA, but was formulated to meet the tighter european cars specifications for evaporation, friction protection, cooling characteristics, etc.

For more details read on

I found out tha Amsoil now offers an oil for European cars that exceeds the latest MB specifications ( MB229.5, 229.3, 229.1 and BMW LL-01/98 among others) .

If you drive a lot over 1 year (i.e. >10000 miles) it is recommended that you replace the paper filter at least once each 6 months and top off the oil.
MB recommends a new filter element (fleece?) for longer change intervals.

Unfortunately the best Supersyn oil in the US stores and dealers is not as good as the ones used in europe for the tight engine engineering specs to allow those cars to perform the way they do and to fly on the long inter country autobahns for so many thousands of miles between oil changes.

The only match I found in the US market is made by a company called AMSOIL. They started the marketing of synthetic oil for cars when all multi-nationals laughed at them back in the 70s. A US veteran fighter pilot figured that if it was good for his jets why wouldn't it be great for cars. So with that dream and vision he started the company after returning from the war. This company (AMSOIL) is today eons ahead of the big guys in oil performance. Their oil formulations have been measured against all others and produced wear indexes half of the best super-syn oil in the market and as much as one quarter of the wear index of your average oil. In addition it evaporates half the rate the best oils in the market do after 6 months of use. That is the difference between having real protection in your engine crank-case or oil syrup (I have seen that first hand when replacing the top 1 oil at the shops that was used in the E320 for 8 months or 3000 miles prior to the last change I did. It was in quite a thick state even after warming up the engine). No wonder the regular dealers and oil changing companies recommend you to change oil every 3000 miles or 3 months for the regular cars. The problem with MB in the US is that the FSS system was set for a target of 10000 miles between service calls. Most people went by that and unfortunately since the majority of the oil used here is not as good as in Europe they ended up with broken engines very fast and then went and sued MB and won their case because they were not warned about the types of oil to use. So now MB is only recommending oil products that meet their latest and tighter specifications.

So with all that as a historical background, when I bought my 2 used 99 MB, I tried to find out more about this top of the line synthetic oil made by Amsoil after hearing about it from 2 friends that fly airplanes so many times at the office. Since I made a reasonable size investment on those cars I figured I better take better care of them than I would do for a regular car.

The web site where you can read more about this (plenty of technical data) and link directly to the manufacturer's web site to order oil and other products is:

http://synthetic-oil-tech.com/1265580

just click on the ONLINE STORE button and search for EUROPEAN .
You should get a list with 4 products with the european formulation. They are all the same but packaged in different sizes. Most MB (E and above) engine oil capacity is around 8.5 quarts of oil . The C class uses a bit less (6.5?). The retail price is a bit more than the "top" line of off the shelf synthethic oils, but then again the old saying that you get what you pay for applies also here. For those that decide to do the oil change for all of their cars and want to save some money I recommend signing up as a wholesale customer for 6 months at a low cost of $10 on that same site and during that time just purchase all the oil you need at the same price they sell to the direct distributors.

I also recommend you order their engine oil flush product, to be used before putting their oil so as to flush out all slush from previous oil used. It is quite simple. All instructions are on the web site and on the product label. They also have excellent products to clean the injectors and other parts of the carburation system.

I did notice even what fews a few more horse power from the E320 and noticed that the engine runs a lot smoother and revs up much quicker when demanded by the driver. I did not measure the mileage before and after for the E320, but will be doing that with the Aztek as it has a trip computer that displays the average mileage between resets.


When you use the AMSOIL oil for the first time you should use the oil flush product. In that case it is also recommended to do the oil draining using the plug in the bottom of the engine, but all future ones can be done by syphoning the oil using a vaccum syphon that goes into the dipstick tube. You can buy at boat stores and it is called Topsider. There are many other ones in the market, but this is one of the best. It costs 39 retail, but can be had for 29 sometimes on sale. It is cheap enough. So just get one and enjoy that care of your second or only lady depending on your situation. It is also a lot cleaner than getting under the car. Many dealers do it that way nowadays. You can try parking the car over a ramp so as to cause the oil to shift towards the dipstick side so as to drain the most oil you can. You can do a test, but many users of MB and BMW have found that if they take out the plug there is less than a cup of old oil left.
One detail about using the topsider or similar systems is that the oil needs to warm but not very hot as it tends to make the hoses too soft and they might clapse temporarily causing a slower drain rate.

For those that live in Texas for example who have to drive hundreds of miles daily for business or even to go shopping, it is easy to put 15 or even more than 20000 miles a year. In that case check-out the AMSOIL products that are guaranteed to protect your engine for 25,000 or 35,000 miles or 1 year on the product label (go find someone else that does that). It is called ATMTP and it costs only a bit more than the european formulation oil. Of course you would have to replace the oil filter at the intervals that the FSS recomends the oil service and would be better to use the new filter types using a fleece element instead of paper. You can still go ahead and plan to replace that oil at the 10000 mile intervals, but feel comfortable going over it if for some reason you are away from a service station or still thousands of miles away from a point/time you can afford to check her in for service or do it yourself again.
Common sense should be exercised by those that still have cars under warranty, as far as keeping the records up to date and doing the plan A or B when the indicator on the dash indicates it is time for service. notice that up to the 2004 model year, the routine service was included in the car price, but in 2005 it may have been discontinued for some. Once the warranty is over I normally get more aggressive with the way I maintain my cars. Meaning that I try to do the oil changes and other things myself , such as:
replace air filter by upgrading to K&L or AMSOIL filters that seem to do better in the long run, specially when replacing a regular paper filter,
replace wipers, bulbs,cabin air filter, . (it is quite involving to get them out of the glove compartment area) and I am almost sure that in one of my cars those filters were not replaced even though it had gone through a Plan A less than 12 months before I got to replace it myself.). By now you should be getting the flavor as to why I am trying to maintaim the routine things in my cars as much as I can. I think we the MB owners are fortunate to have a car that is well engineered . Things are usually pretty easy to replace , check or adjust, even though on the more complex ones we are still better off getting the specialized mechanics take care of (or at least try, as looking through these forums you can find answers for problems that the dealers have been kicking around the bush on your car and never fixed) . If they only read the service notes as well as most of us in these forums do there would be a lot less complaints about their quality.

str8ridin

Why does everybody who uses Amsoil turn into salesmen? Is it a pyramid scheme? I've noticed this on a lot of other forums as well...

guanabara

Just like MB cars , once you try it you won't want to use any other oil.
You don't need to sign into any of what you call piramid schemes to buy the oil.
Do you know what piramid means by the way.

AMSOIL is a legitimate business since 1974. People stake their lives on that business, just like any other paid salesman or even unpaid ones like yourself and myself when we recommend someone to go to a movie or a restaurant when we like it.

perhaps you should look at the oil technical performance instead of being stuck on other things. Have a great day.

Take a look at an independent lab test for both M1 and Amsoil:
http://www.synthetic-oil-tech.com/d...._vs_mobil1.htm

Now for a comparison between all major oils and Amsoil:
http://www.synthetic-oil-tech.com/d....il_testing.htm

other background info:
http://www.synthetic-oil-tech.com/d....ows_amsoil.htm

http://www.synthetic-oil-tech.com/d....ept_secret.htm

http://www.synthetic-oil-tech.com/d....ley_riders.htm


It is up to you to use whatever you like, but don't put the blinds on others who may want to know and benefit more about this oil, without having to sign up to any non-required business relationship. Of course if they like it so much and want to make it a business than it is their choice. There are lubricant engineers and racing/motorcycle drivers who use and also sell this oil, just like those celebrities that sell stuff on the TV. The difference here is that the oil is really outstanding and the people selling it are regular people like you and I. You will only know why people fall in love with this oil when you try it.
Give them a try , you will not be disapointed.

guanabara

I am not trying to put down any oil brand here.
If you change the oil each 3000 or 5000 miles or no more than 6 months then any of the minimum quality brands recommended by the manufacturer is fine.
In fact no matter what oil brand you use, do change the oil filter each 6 months for your protection.
If you drive a lot of miles each month and find yourself away from a reliable dealer/mechanic frequently, then there is only 1 oil brand in the world that will guarantee in the label their oil for 25000 or 35000 miles or 1 year. And that you know it is AMSOIL.
I still use Mobil 1 in one of my cars but soon will be all AMSOIL, just for the convenience of doing the change on all 3 cars at the same time within 1 hour.

A good comparison here would be:
1. Is the tire that come in your MB from the factory the best tire you can get for your $ here in the US? Do you find that tire spinning on wet pavement when you accelerate or brake fast? Are there better tires out there at the same price or cheaper than the Continentals used even on the new E500s? you bet there are. I for myself switched to BFGoodrich Traction TA and have seen the dramatic improvement in noise and performance. Use your brain. as the great President Reagan used to say, Trust but verify.

http://www.synthetic-oil-tech.com/d...._vs_mobil1.htm

Co 55 AMG

How do you reset the A service log on the dash?

Ironmudd

Tells how in the owner's manual. I just did the B service and I'm sure the A service is the same. Turn the key to the position right before it's about to start (This was a problem for me and I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work, but I hadn't turned the key far enough). Then hit your buttons on the steering wheel until it pulls up your "service in xxx miles" on the dash. Then hold down the "R" button and it will tell you to press it again to reset. Do it and it will reset to 10,000 miles.

guanabara

I would like to share a summary of the results of oil lab analysis done recently for my 3 cars. For those who would be interested on the full summary please send a private message.

Car======oil used======Iron=Boron==Molybdenum=Visc100=NITR=TBN
99 E320==AMSOIL 5W30===5===86=====10=======10.20==1.0==11.8
99 C230==MOBIL1 0W40===11==135=====80======10.27==17.0==8.7
01 Aztek=MOBIL1 5W30===50===166====102======10.93==24.0==9.3

All the cars above had their oil changed about 6 months before the test was done. The lab indicated that the results were normal and that no corrective action was necessary at this time. All oils were indicated as good for continued use, but I was planning to change all to Amsoil for a future comparison, so I went ahead and changed the oil on all cars to start at exact the same tiime.

Note the major indicator of engine wear which is iron (WOW, double the wear with Mobil1 on MB engines?). Moly is also a good wear indicator, but Mobil1 chooses to use it as an "additive" so the comparison is not straight forward (I believe that the starting value for Moly is 60 on Mobil1 so that would equate to an adjusted value of 20 and 42 for the above last 2 cases).

I have no doubts on what to continue using from now on, based on scientific evidence.

Note the TBN value for Amsoil way higher than the Mobil1 oil. Note that it is ok down to 2.0 in general, but a higher starting and standing number after 6 months has a lot to say as to what oil will protect my engine parts against rust better.

all the cars above have had their oil changed to Amsoil european formula (5W40) (MB) or Amsoil 5W30 (Aztek) at this time. I will do the same test 1 year from now (no sense in wasting money changing the oil anytime sooner with Amsoil. I will definetely change the oil filter at 6 months intervals though)

A final note: (documented by photos of cruise computer displays)
My 01 Aztek average mileage (indicated on cruise computer) was 18.6 MPG on Mobil1 prior to oil change (total of 5600 miles or 6 months). It went up to 19.9 after replacing the oil with Amsoil 5W30. This is not added to brag about any oil quality as it is common sense to expect that a fresh oil with lower viscosity and more additives will be better for the mileage than an used oil. I have just done this test to debunk an online garage test site reported elsewhere on this thread, who posted that when they changed from Amsoil oil (with 14000 miles) to a fresh Mobil1 their test car mileage improved by 10%.
If with 5600 miles on the Mobil1 oil I got 7% better mileage when switching to a fresh Amsoil, then who knows how much better the savings would have been if I had waited another 8 months or 8,000 miles?

Voila, here is the truth. It might hurt some feelings. That was not the intention.

I am glad now that I will be able to go through the full manufacturer recommended mileage on the engine oil (10000 miles or 1 year) without worrying about doing any damage or causing any abnormal wear. In the process I will actually save a lot of time (and $$$) for the combined waiting time for all 3 cars oil change at the absurd 3 months or 3000 miles intervals many are still stuck with by virtual ignorance. In the process, I will be doing my part to reduce our dependency on middle east oil and reducing environmental polution.
I understand that Amsoil is made in the USA with US synthetic oil base materials.

nickv

So Amsoil 5W30 is acceptable to use in our CLK 430 engines? I thought we should be using 10W30 or 0W40??

guanabara

The Amsoil 5W30 formulation I was using before met all MB specs 229.3.

The new Amsoil 5W40 (european) that I installed a few weeks ago, meets the even tougher MB specs 229.5.

Incidentally the cold poor point for the AMSOIL 5W40 oil (-59F) is virtually the same as the Mobil1 0W40 (-62F). I don't know if you drive your car at any place that cold. So they are virtually the same as far as operating temperature range goes.

As far as viscosity goes they are virtually the same at operating temperature, just look at the lab tests I posted above.

For a complete list of oil brands and blends that meet the MB specs see:
http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

some oils which are not recommended for the latest MB FSS system:
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 0W-30 SL/SJ/CF A1/B1/A5 9.7 doesn't meet 229.1 nor ACEA A2 or A3
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 SL/SJ/CF A1/B1/A5 9.8 doesn't meet 229.1 nor ACEA A2 or A3
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 10W-30 SL/SJ/CF A1/B1/A5 10.1 doesn't meet 229.1 nor ACEA A2 or A3

guanabara

Check out the www.alloemautoparts.com web site.

They have a special discount on all sorts of filters for june 2005. Prices much lower than at dealership and above $75 the shipping is free.

They also carry the new fleece filters which are the latest recomendation from MB for the FSS cars which are getting oil changes at the FSS indicated time and not the non-sensical 3000 miles.

guanabara

Hi folks,
back in April 05, I reported the results of the lab tests on the engine oil for my 2 1999 MB cars.

This week I got the results of a follow on oil lab analysis conducted recently on the engine oil for the 1999 C230K. It was done after it had run 8+ months on the same oil. At this time I just replaced the oil filter. There was no need to top off the oil. I will continue using the same oil installed in Mar 05 until it reaches 12 months of use or the FSS flags it as time for change (currently the FSS display indicates 6000 miles to go on the current oil.)
The lab results state the following for the current oil:
NO CORRECTIVE ACTION REQUIRED, OIL IS SUITABLE FOR CONTINUED USE. RESAMPLE AT NEXT REGULAR INTERVAL

here is the summary of potential wear related metals for the 99 C230K:

=oil ========Iron=Molyb=AL=Co=Si=Visc100=TBN==miles==mo nths_use
Mar 14, 05
MOBIL1 0W40==11==80===3==6==5==10.27==8.7==3700===6.5
Nov 27, 05
AMSOIL 5W40==10==18===3==5==4==12.72==5.6==4360===8.5

The other wear metal counts were virtually the same.

As you can see there is something definetely going for the Amsoil oil here. It is not just a bunch of lunatics pushing for their team colors that post their satisfaction with results they observe and better yet, get it to be quantified scientifically.
I have on purpose done the test on the same car and consequently with about the same mileage (about 55,000 miles) and under the same daily driving conditions (city/highway 75/25% driving) and driver. This defuses some of the brush offs I got when I posted the initial results in Apr 05.

So here you go, Another myth debunked. There are other companies out there that make excellent quality oil without resorting to heavy promotinal and paid sponsorship. In fact the money they save in not doing that can be better benefit me when used to improve the quality and quantity of better materials in their formulation.
Another myth debunked most FSS based car owners should know by now is that, if you use a top of the line excellent quality synthetic oil it should be safe to go through the full FSS period of 10,000 miles or 12 months without an oil change in most cases of well taken care of engines still operating well. A lab analysis which costs less than 20.00 serves mostly to check the conditions of the engine or transmission components on occasional basis or when buying a used car. So in that case it is good to reduce the middle east oil dependency and brake the 3000 miles/3 months chain around your neck.
The oil filter (if not the new felt element type) should still be replaced each 6 months and oil should be added routinely (after engine has been stopped for more than 15 min), if needed to keep the level near the max on the dip stick.

fredush

I just bought a Mann fleece filter for my CLK 320 2004 at BenzAutoParts.com for $13.82.

For those of you who pump out their oil,my car does not have a dipstick...at least I do not see it,how do you pump the oil?
Fred

fredush

Where is the dipstick hole on the CLK 320 (04)??
Thank you

fredush

I read some horror stories about mechanic putting too much oil in engines,i own a 2003 E320 ,it contains 8.5 quarts(incl. the filter),doe anybody know if the computer will advise if there is too much oil since ther is NO DIPSTICK.
Thank you
Fred

guanabara

Hi Fred,
on my 99 E320, all I need to do is to turn the key just prior to the point where the engine will start. I keep it there for about 15 sec and then the odometer reads "Check engine oil?". Then within 2 sec I click on the O button just below the + and - buttons and it tells me the oil level. In your case there may be a different procedure, but in any case you should be able to get a similar display. When the oil is at the correct level it reads "OK". If it is below the max it may read something like -7/8. I never got it that low, so I don't know what it would read exactly. I am also not sure if it would tell you if the oil is above the max level either., (The oil tests should be done after waiting at least 15 min after the engine is stopped or in the morning before starting it, otherwise the message will read something like "wait for settling time".
Try going through your users manual. Another option may be to buy the dip stick at the dealer or on the online parts stores.
Merry Chrsitmas to you all.

fredush

Thank you

guanabara

I received the following information from the friend that supplies me with the Amsoil I use for the engine and transmission:
Quote:
As of January 1, AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-40 European Car Formula Motor Oil (AFL) has been reformulated to meet the VW 505.01, Mercedes-Benz 229.51 and BMW LL-04 specifications.
The reformulated AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-40 European Car Formula Motor Oil (AFL). Offers advanced protection for all major European gasoline and diesel passenger vehicles
Fully formulated for turbo direct injection (TDI) vehicles.
It is recommended for European gasoline and diesel vehicles, including but not limited to, Saab, Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, Land Rover, Opel, Mini Cooper, BMW, Peugeot and Porsche. Unquote:

What do you guys think?
It looks like Amsoil is raising the bar again on the other brands. A single oil formulation good for both the gasoline and diesel engines.
The Amsoil fully synthetic APO based, European Engine oil was reformulated so that it meets the MB latest Specs for even diesel engines. Wow..
I will ordering this new formulation around march 06, when I will be doing the yearly engine oil change in my MB cars.

I was able to find the following about the new MB specs:
MB sheet 229.51 approved oils; low ash long life
Mercedes pioneered this new spec for passenger cars with diesel engines with EURO 4 soot particle filters and longer service life than the 229.31 oils. The spec was introduced in 2005. Change intervals increased to 20,000 kilometers.(about 12500 miles)
They listed only 2 european made oil brands as meeting these specs. So It looks like Amsoil should be soon listed there too, with no other brand available in the US listed.
Source: http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html
The previous specs 229.31 were good up to 15000 Km . (about 9500 miles)

So there you go, it seems that there is now an alternative for the new and old Diesel engine MB passenger cars in the US besides truck oil.