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Serndipity - it's avalloneclk again.
Since acquiring my 2002 CLK I have replaced the drivers seat position motor, repaired the tilt lever, the limp mode is fixed with a new accelerator pedal sensor (thanks to your help) I have also replaced brake pads & rotors. Now I am on to what seems everyone's favorite - the roof. I've been reading thru the forum and it seems like reading "War & Peace". When I try to lower the top, the windows all go down and then Nothing. I can hear a pump running and some thumping noise in the back. I was able to cycle it a couple of times by pushing on the top towards the trunk. When it completes the cycle - everything works (trunk, windows, door locks, etc.) When I try to close it, everything appears to work but I get no finished signal. The S84 switch remains illuminated. The trunk will not open, door locks may or may not work and sometimes the windows will not go all the way up. I have looked in the trunk around the spare and see no signs of hydraulic fluid leakage. with the number of missing plastic fasteners it's obvious someone has been here before me. Can you point me in a direction? Thank you, Avalloneclk
Roof cables - Follow up to my "Quick Reply" to Serendipity
Found 2 broken cables for the convertible top - watched Klaus's video - am in the process of replacing them - I don't think this will solve all of my problems, but it's a start. Will update soon!
Two new cables installed. Had a duh moment regarding the main handle reattachment. You must move the collar in to be able to turn the lock mechanism to reinstall the screw that holds the handle in place. Ran the top through and up and down cycle with no problems, for now.
Two new cables installed. Had a duh moment regarding the main handle reattachment. You must move the collar in to be able to turn the lock mechanism to reinstall the screw that holds the handle in place. Ran the top through and up and down cycle with no problems, for now.
Hello Avalloneclk,
Thank you for the update and I take it that after you installed the new pair of front tension cables your power roof operation has been fully restored.
If not and you're still experiencing the malfunctions you mentioned in post #276, I'll be able to assist you further.
When closing the roof, after the final hydraulic operation completes, manually pulling down bow the rest of the way to lock it onto the windshield frame, requires considerable effort and applied cable tension, because you're also closing the roof's forward frame joints as well.
When you unlock the front bow to open the roof, the previously applied tension is released, the front bow should rise at least 8" and the roof's forward left and right side frame joints will open up, allowing the hydraulic system to begin to opening the roof.
The first hydraulic operation will be to unlock and release the rear bow and as Klaus mentioned, also had tension applied by a pair of rear cables, when the roof was closed.
Note, that when the rear bow tension is released, you'll notice a bit of frame kickback, where the front bow will tend to want to lower a bit. However, provided that the the front bow automatically raised sufficiently, the main lift cylinders will then be able to begin lowering the roof .
Due to the force required to lower and lock the front bow, several owners have tried and failed at repairing the broken cables and it's important to only use genuine MB replacement cables.
A tip on replacing the cables is how to get the cable's end stop though the small hole in the 3rd bow.
As shown in the below picture, the 3rd bow has a plastic sleeve inserted, which consist of 2 half's
You will need to carefully tap out the sleeve, as it's plastic and no longer available.
Then you'll be able to pass the cable's end stop though the hole, followed by putting the half sections back around the cable and into the bow's hole.
Serndipity,
Thank you for your response. The cables were genuine MB parts purchased from Autohaus. My plastic retainers were in good shape and I was able to reuse them. The top goes through the down cycle with no issues. I get the beautiful chimes indicating that the cycle is complete. Going up seems to work fine except for the fact that I get no indication from the chime that the cycle is complete and the S84 top switch remains lit or blinks at 1 Hz. I have checked continuity on the rear bow switch and it seems fine. I have tried to move both the rear bow switch and the cover latch to see if I could get the light to go out with no luck.. I am thinking that my problem may be in the wiring or the front bow switch. I am debating on which path to pursue.
Thought I would try resetting everything manually but no luck indicator light is still on. Back on my path of rear bow wiring or the front bow switch. .If the rear bow is not used in the down position does that just leave the front bow switch? Maybe.
Activated the open cycle and it ran perfect. Activated the close cycle and stopped it when the cover opened. I disconnected the wires from the rear bow latch, Continued the cycle until complete and it is exactly the same whether the wires are connected or not. The indicator light stays on and no chime signal. So I am assuming that the wires going to the controller are bad or the controller itself is faulty. Is there a wiring diagram showing which pins on N52 are connected to the bow latch? The one I found in the thread is not to clear.
In summary my top opens with no problem, chimes signal end of cycle, When closing top appears to go through the whole cycle but there are no chimes after the bow lock latches and the red indicator light on S84 stays on and blinks at 1 Hz when driving and of course the trunk won't open with the fob. I have gone into the bowels and have continuity from the bow switch to ground(brown wire) and continuity to N52 harness connector, light violet wire.
What am I missing? Is the cycle sequential?
I did some more reading in the forum and saw a thread that stated that S84/13S1, S84/15, S84/16 and A25/S1, A25/S2 must all be in the correct position to complete the cycle. Thus far I have only looked at S84/16, the rear bow. Because of the completed sequence could it be that one of the up switches is not made? S84/15 fabric bow down?
I found the N52 harness wiring diagram on thread 8.
Last edited by avalloneclk; 05-28-2022 at 11:14 AM.
Reason: added items
Activated the open cycle and it ran perfect. Activated the close cycle and stopped it when the cover opened. I disconnected the wires from the rear bow latch, Continued the cycle until complete and it is exactly the same whether the wires are connected or not. The indicator light stays on and no chime signal. So I am assuming that the wires going to the controller are bad or the controller itself is faulty. Is there a wiring diagram showing which pins on N52 are connected to the bow latch? The one I found in the thread is not to clear.
In summary my top opens with no problem, chimes signal end of cycle, When closing top appears to go through the whole cycle but there are no chimes after the bow lock latches and the red indicator light on S84 stays on and blinks at 1 Hz when driving and of course the trunk won't open with the fob. I have gone into the bowels and have continuity from the bow switch to ground(brown wire) and continuity to N52 harness connector, light violet wire.
What am I missing? Is the cycle sequential?
I did some more reading in the forum and saw a thread that stated that S84/13S1, S84/15, S84/16 and A25/S1, A25/S2 must all be in the correct position to complete the cycle. Thus far I have only looked at S84/16, the rear bow. Because of the completed sequence could it be that one of the up switches is not made? S84/15 fabric bow down? I found the N52 harness wiring diagram on thread 8.
Hello again Avalloneclk,
When closing or opening the soft-top, system operation is controlled by the N52 control module, that analyzes the positions of various position/limit switches, which will correspondingly switches the the pump's valve block solenoids and cyclically actuates the hydraulic cylinders.
If the control module sees that a switch has not properly actualized, further progression of roof movement will stop.
When closing the roof, the below document, chronicles the key stages of roof operation.
The next document shows the required position/limit switch actualization's, that should occur at the end of each key operational stage.
Together, you'll be able to isolate where and more importantly, why your malfunction is occurring.
Additionally, here is the pin-out diagram, showing the signal connections, on the controller's 55 pin connector.
During production of the 2001 CLK, MB incorporated numerous significant upgrades to the power roof system and the controller, pump assembly and A25 compartment cover switch are now entirely different part numbers. As example, the new pump's valve block eliminated 2 solenoids (e.g. now uses 5 solenoids vs. the former 7) and the compartment cover closed/locked switch eliminated now only checks that cover is locked. Depending on the production date, a model year 2001 may have none, some or all of the upgrades.
Since you have a later MY 2002 , the matrix showing the stages of roof operation vs.the position/limit switch actualization's is still valid as follows.
Ignore checking the status of the A25s1 cover closed switch which is no longer exist and the controller looks at only the S84/5 actualization to determine if the compartment cover is open or closed.
Note: The S84/14 cover open limit switch shown in the matrix is labeled incorrectly and the correct label is S84/5.
Here's a document showing the location, purpose and function of the S84/5 position/limit switch.
With the 3 documents, you'll be able to determine all of the switch actualization's at any of the key stages of operation, as follows.
Operate the power roof to the position of failure and open the trunk.
Note: By design, to prevent a collision between the trunk lid and the lid of the soft-top compartment, while the roof is and/or being opened or closed, the key fob or center console remote trunk release switch will not allow opening the trunk, so you'll have to use the mechanical key to open the trunk.
With the ignition off, disconnect the 55 pin wiring harness from the controller.
Using a multi-meter, set to measure ohms, check/verify that all of the of the position/limit switches are being properly actualized, at the stage where roof operation stops.
When a switch is actualized, it is shown as a 1 in the diagram and will be switched to vehicle ground (e.g. read as 0 - 5 ohms by the multi-meter ) and when a switch is not actualized, it is shown as a 0 in the diagram and will not be switched to vehicle ground (e.g. read as greater than 20K ohms by the multi-meter).
Note: The diagram of the 55 pin connector signal pin-out assignments, is with the connector mounted onto the controller, so when you disconnect the wiring harness to make the resistance measurements on the harness connector, be mindful that when looking into the wiring harness (e.g. now likely rotated 180 degrees), that pin 1 on the bulkhead connector will shift from the top left to the top right position, when looking into the disconnected harness connector.
As an example, to check the status of S84/5, connect the multi-meter between vehicle ground and pin 50 on the disconnected harness and when the compartment cover is completely open the meter will indicate 0-5 ohms and when closed greater then 20K ohms. In the post
In your specific post, your roof stopped working at stage 4, at which time, the controller must see that the status of all the position/limit switches have properly actuated, in order for stage 5 operation to occur. I would bet dollars to doughnuts, that disconnecting the wires from the S84/16 rear bow latch wasn't why you were able to get the stage 5 to occur. However, when you manually opened the cover to disconnect the S84/16 wiring, you fully opened the compartment cover's hinge and S84/5 actuated. Hint: If you review the matrix, it's the only new actuation that should occur in stage 4 that is required by stage 5.
Hopefully with the aforementioned information you'll be able to find out why your overhead control panel doesn't chime at stage 10, which if all the position/limit switch actualizations are then correct, it should. At that time, the main operating switch will remain illuminated until stage 11 is complete. If the lamp then remains illuminated or flashes when not pressed, see the below document.
Last edited by Serndipity; 06-01-2022 at 09:45 PM.
Serndipity,
Thanks for your response. It has truly been a challenge to resolve this issue, i think i might have misled you in my description, The top functions all the way through the closing steps except signaling with chimes that it has completed the cycle which I think is step 10. I purposely stopped it mid cycle to see if disconnecting the rear bow would have any effect. If the cycle is sequential that would mean that step 7 could not take place unless step 6 had been completed. So it appears that all the steps are complete except the finish signal which I thought would be the rear bow latch releasing S84/16 which is normally closed, .I will go back to the harness and check continuity to ground on the various pins as you suggest. Thank you for your patience,
Two weeks ago my 2002 soft top worked fine. Last week I went to open it and "nothing". The soft top switch lit solid red, the windows rolled down and then "nothing".What I did then:
Checked the fuses that are located in the trunk: Number 13, the 40 A that is associated with the motor;:and number 11 and 15 that are associated with the electronics. There are also a number 11 and 15 in the fuse box under the hood; driver's side. All fuses good.
Took a look at the hydraulic fluid level just to be sure it was ok.
Checked into the cost and availability of a rebuilt pump/motor assembly from Top Hydraulics. I have built up trust with them, specifically Klaus, over the years and have replaced two hydraulic cylinders and on another occasion two hydraulic lines. using their parts and tech help to guide me through the process.
Klaus suggested that I check the relay on top of the pump by pulling the relay from the fuel pump and sticking it in the pump relay spot. The fuel pump relay sits along side the fuse box in the trunk.
I took his advice and have discovered that it's the pump relay that is the problem, not the pump itself. This is a $15 part. Once again the good folks at Top have saved me tons of money and I've learned something useful.
A couple bits of advice if you decide to do this:
1) pull the fuel pump relay first and set it aside. This will allow you to unscrew the metal plate covering the hydraulic pump and slide it to the right and out of the way without removing the 4 screws that hold the amp to the metal plate.
2) Once you have the fuel pump relay installed on to the top front of the hydraulic pump test what you've done by moving inside the car and run the rolls bars up and down from the switch on the dash.. If they move up and down you have found your problem.
3)To test the soft top, remember to insert the cargo cover into the slots in the trunk and bring it aft to engage the switch that at the back of the slot on the passenger side.
4) The MB dealer gave me relay part number A 000 982 80 23, as the replacement for the part I removed A 002 542 13 19
I have a problem with the roll bars. They are deployed permanently. A couple of years ago I removed the back seat, press the two switches with some long screwdrivers and they went down just by pressing their button up (8 seconds) and then down. For 3-4 moths they went up for no reason occasionaly, but they would go down by pressing the switch up (8 seconds etc...). Since then they went up once and they could not go down. Actually many times (especially when remember to check to lower them by the switch) I hear a clicking noise now and then for many minutes and then it stops. The service centre told me that I need a new ecu for the soft top. What do you think? Is this the problem or just the roll bar valves? Thank you.
After all the trials and tribulations, continuity checking, voltage checks, etc. problem turned out to be the N52 controller. No more blinking red light from S84 switch, the driver window goes up completely and I can get in my trunk with the fob. Used controller can be found on eBay or even an auto salvage yard. Good luck and thanks for all of your help!
Thanks Gator
When I open it I slightly hold the front top up and it fully opens so I am confident that what you have explained is the problem if you could explain how I access this cable, I know the part number is a lot to ask but if possible that would be greatly appreciated
Thanks again
You have a broken switch behind left passenger head rest after opening the trunk flap covering
When you manually close the roof and lock the front bow, the locking handle has a lever that actuates the switch's normally open contacts to vehicle ground, which puts the soft top controller to sleep.
Conversely, when you turn the locking handle to open the roof, the lever releases the pressure on the micro-switch, the controller wakes up, lowers the windows (if previously up) and proceeds to open the roof.
.
Serendipity, (or anyone else) where is the location or locations of controllers for the microswitches? Any pics?
I’m trying to track down which switches may be bad or if it’s the controller(s) since I already replaced the rear bowlock and checked the microswitch for the front latch.
Response to your inquiry: the controller is located behind the back seats, accessible through the trunk. Remove the carpet and several bolts. The amplifier is also mounted to this plate. You do not need to remove the amplifier to access the controller.
QUOTE=Gee333;8728087]Serendipity, (or anyone else) where is the location or locations of controllers for the microswitches? Any pics?
I’m trying to track down which switches may be bad or if it’s the controller(s) since I already replaced the rear bowlock and checked the microswitch for the front latch.
Response to your inquiry: the controller is located behind the back seats, accessible through the trunk. Remove the carpet and several bolts. The amplifier is also mounted to this plate. You do not need to remove the amplifier to access the controller.
QUOTE=Gee333;8728087]Serendipity, (or anyone else) where is the location or locations of controllers for the microswitches? Any pics?
I’m trying to track down which switches may be bad or if it’s the controller(s) since I already replaced the rear bowlock and checked the microswitch for the front latch.
Thanks!
[/QUOTE]
Great! Thanks for confirming the location. Just not looking forward to removing all those rivets/bolts to get to that area. Lol!
Response to your inquiry: the controller is located behind the back seats, accessible through the trunk. Remove the carpet and several bolts. The amplifier is also mounted to this plate. You do not need to remove the amplifier to access the controller.
QUOTE=Gee333;8728087]Serendipity, (or anyone else) where is the location or locations of controllers for the microswitches? Any pics?
I’m trying to track down which switches may be bad or if it’s the controller(s) since I already replaced the rear bowlock and checked the microswitch for the front latch.
Thanks!
[/QUOTE]
Quick newbie question… I’m assuming the module on the bottom is the controller from the other pics I saw. How do you remove the metal clip that holds the plug in place. This is the first time I’ve been in there so I figured I’d better ask first before I break something!
Klaus said “the next step would be following the two wires from the switch in the front latch assembly to the controller and short them at the controller.” First, how do you short the two wires? I’m assuming I do it via the pinouts. And does anyone know which pinout(s) are for the front microswitch for the roof latch?
On a side note, no wonder Merc shops get paid so much! It’s so time consuming!! That was a huge pain removing all the bolts, clips and panels!! Lol! But it’s good to know my reservoir is full and there are no leaks!
Thanks!
Last edited by Gee333; 02-27-2023 at 12:05 AM.
Reason: Forgot to add details; corrections
Hope these help - I checked continuity between the switches between the cable connector and microswitches. Continuity was good so I assumed the
controller was bad.
Hope these help - I checked continuity between the switches between the cable connector and microswitches. Continuity was good so I assumed the
controller was bad.
Thanks! Were you able to replace the controller? How much was a new controller?
Although before I took apart the trunk when I press the switch to close the top my windows don’t go up after I latch the top down. I also noticed that I can’t open the trunk manually or with the remote or button inside. I have to use the key to open the trunk. Ugh!!
Hello, can someone help me? I have a CLK A208 year 2000.
the top does not work, when starting the car, the power switch S84 stays always on.
When I open the windshield top, all the windows go down, but when I activate the power switch (it starts to flash), a chissss sounds in the trunk but nothing happens, check all the microswitches (they work fine).
The roll bar switch both up and down works but also tries to close the case cover lock (piston is activated to close).
Any help or recommendation, if someone is interested in my problem I can send you a video and more information.
better day people
Last edited by Mapamundis; 08-07-2023 at 09:52 AM.
The roof works perfectly now it goes opens and closes, but when closed it does not close the windows in that once the roof is locked to the windscreen the windows do not go up and the roof switch starts blinking and when put into gear and start to move a warning bell rings for about 5-10sec this is very annoying as it happens all the time.
If you have read my prior posts you will see I have replaced the bow lock and the limit switch 8415, this got the top working properly (except for the windows and warning bell) now I have this problem any info would greatly help I do not want to take it to the dealer as they charged me $330.00 for diagnosis last time.
Also with the roof fully closed the boot will not open unless I use the key
Flashing lamp(S84) could be flashing for several reasons: top not completely locked, trunk lid not closed or sensors have indicated the cycle is not complete. Does the audible signa(N70)l sound when the cycle is complete? In my case after weeks of trouble shooting sensors and wiring the problem was the controller(N52). I don't see the windows coming up in the sequence list.
05-13-2022, 03:23 PM
