Screwed by Mercedes Mayfair
08-12-2004, 11:19 AM
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C32 AMG, CL500, Jag StypeR, SLK200, Aygo, Audi TT
Screwed by Mercedes Mayfair
This is real bad man - I saved my hard earned cash for years to finally buy a used 02 plate W209 CLK 200 Kompressor from Mercedes Mayfair London. I was well happy. I forked out another 2K to get SAT NAV Command fitted and I just serviced it.
Strangely I didnt get all the milage and HPI check paperwork that you are supposed to get from MB when I bought the car and after asking afew times I finally went and did a HPI check myself. I nearly died when it came up it was an import!!
I called MB mayfair and spoke directly to the dealer principle. On his first chat to me, he was adament that it wasnt an import. But 15 minutes later he called me back and admitted it was an import.
Anyway - I had already spoken to my solicitor and trading standards and they both advised I could get all my money back. However it was worth seeing what Mb would do first. And the best they offered at first........ oh an extra year warrenty!! What crap man!
I had phoned around and found that a UK car would be worth about 27K, but an import about 22-23K - BIG DIFFERENCE, so I asked the dealership for the difference in value back (about 5K) but they didnt want to do that. It took days of constant phoning and harrasing before they agreed to give me my money back - BUT - I have not been given the money back for the Command system, or have I been given any compensation at all. In fact till now I still have not had an apology.
I cant beleive a main dealer, and especially London Mayfair could pull thsi kind of stunt!!
Has this happened to anybody else out there? What is really upsetting is that when I called MB UK, they said they cant get involved as my purchase was with the dealership and NOT MB UK.
Anyway - im now driving an ML and pocketed some cash - but boy do I miss that CLK
Strangely I didnt get all the milage and HPI check paperwork that you are supposed to get from MB when I bought the car and after asking afew times I finally went and did a HPI check myself. I nearly died when it came up it was an import!!
I called MB mayfair and spoke directly to the dealer principle. On his first chat to me, he was adament that it wasnt an import. But 15 minutes later he called me back and admitted it was an import.
Anyway - I had already spoken to my solicitor and trading standards and they both advised I could get all my money back. However it was worth seeing what Mb would do first. And the best they offered at first........ oh an extra year warrenty!! What crap man!
I had phoned around and found that a UK car would be worth about 27K, but an import about 22-23K - BIG DIFFERENCE, so I asked the dealership for the difference in value back (about 5K) but they didnt want to do that. It took days of constant phoning and harrasing before they agreed to give me my money back - BUT - I have not been given the money back for the Command system, or have I been given any compensation at all. In fact till now I still have not had an apology.
I cant beleive a main dealer, and especially London Mayfair could pull thsi kind of stunt!!
Has this happened to anybody else out there? What is really upsetting is that when I called MB UK, they said they cant get involved as my purchase was with the dealership and NOT MB UK.
Anyway - im now driving an ML and pocketed some cash - but boy do I miss that CLK
08-12-2004, 12:35 PM
#2
You want your money back. End of story. All the other parts of the idea are a waste of time.
Take the COMAND out of the vehicle and put it in your next CLK ......
And by the way ..... all of the cars are imports.
Take the COMAND out of the vehicle and put it in your next CLK ......
And by the way ..... all of the cars are imports.
08-12-2004, 02:11 PM
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SL500
I think you're somewhat mistaken as to the difference it being an import makes.
Firstly imports are only worth around 800GBP less than UK models, if anything.
Secondly, I've yet to meet a dealer that thinks it matters (other than a muppet in Southampton, and that doesn't count)
Thirdly - the cars are the same. What is your problem with imports. The warranty is potentially different, but you should have insisted on the thrid year from the dealer (which you said they offered) and then there is no difference in value at all. You just got rid of a reasonable CLK for a pants ML for no reason.
Give me one reason (warranty aside) that it should matter. Remember that the cast iron Mobilo Life Merc factory warranty is 2 yrs no matter where you buy it. The third year is only added locally by MB UK in any case.
Stories of imports being worth less are historical in many cases and afflict greys from Japan and badly spec'd cars. Imported cars to UK spec - it really makes no difference.
Firstly imports are only worth around 800GBP less than UK models, if anything.
Secondly, I've yet to meet a dealer that thinks it matters (other than a muppet in Southampton, and that doesn't count)
Thirdly - the cars are the same. What is your problem with imports. The warranty is potentially different, but you should have insisted on the thrid year from the dealer (which you said they offered) and then there is no difference in value at all. You just got rid of a reasonable CLK for a pants ML for no reason.
Give me one reason (warranty aside) that it should matter. Remember that the cast iron Mobilo Life Merc factory warranty is 2 yrs no matter where you buy it. The third year is only added locally by MB UK in any case.
Stories of imports being worth less are historical in many cases and afflict greys from Japan and badly spec'd cars. Imported cars to UK spec - it really makes no difference.
08-13-2004, 09:20 AM
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both you are talking crap!
Unfortunately it seems you both dont know what your on about - we phones around 10 dealers, 5 MB dealers and they ALL gave between 3K and 5K less that if the car was a UK car!
Thats the reason I didnt want to keep the car - I change my car every 2 or so years and a 5K lose is NOT acceptable. The dealership didnt want to pay the difference and I didnt want to lose the cash so the only option was to have my money back. Sorry if you dont agree but your both talking crap - at the end of the day the HPI shows the car to be an import and IT DOES affect the resale value of the car by queit afew grand not £800 or so!
Its only when your in that situation and phoning around to get an idea of how much you'd lose that you'd then appreciate the need to get your money back from the dealer.
Thats the reason I didnt want to keep the car - I change my car every 2 or so years and a 5K lose is NOT acceptable. The dealership didnt want to pay the difference and I didnt want to lose the cash so the only option was to have my money back. Sorry if you dont agree but your both talking crap - at the end of the day the HPI shows the car to be an import and IT DOES affect the resale value of the car by queit afew grand not £800 or so!
Its only when your in that situation and phoning around to get an idea of how much you'd lose that you'd then appreciate the need to get your money back from the dealer.
08-13-2004, 09:35 AM
#5
Originally Posted by shanusanus
Unfortunately it seems you both dont know what your on about - we phones around 10 dealers, 5 MB dealers and they ALL gave between 3K and 5K less that if the car was a UK car!
Thats the reason I didnt want to keep the car - I change my car every 2 or so years and a 5K lose is NOT acceptable. The dealership didnt want to pay the difference and I didnt want to lose the cash so the only option was to have my money back. Sorry if you dont agree but your both talking crap - at the end of the day the HPI shows the car to be an import and IT DOES affect the resale value of the car by queit afew grand not £800 or so!
Its only when your in that situation and phoning around to get an idea of how much you'd lose that you'd then appreciate the need to get your money back from the dealer.
Thats the reason I didnt want to keep the car - I change my car every 2 or so years and a 5K lose is NOT acceptable. The dealership didnt want to pay the difference and I didnt want to lose the cash so the only option was to have my money back. Sorry if you dont agree but your both talking crap - at the end of the day the HPI shows the car to be an import and IT DOES affect the resale value of the car by queit afew grand not £800 or so!
Its only when your in that situation and phoning around to get an idea of how much you'd lose that you'd then appreciate the need to get your money back from the dealer.
you lose more money by changing cars all the time and constantly paying for replacements.
08-13-2004, 12:50 PM
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SL500
I don't believe it.
Are you seriously suggesting that some dealers would have offered 5k more if it was UK sourced. Thats nonsense. I've been in this situation with a number of UK and Imported cars - it makes hardly any difference - FACT.
It sounds like this is your first experience of an import and the dealers have pulled your chain.
The car has probably depreciated loads as the CLK is pretty luke warm on the UK used market; don't confuse that with the relative value of imports/UK cars.
Are you seriously suggesting that some dealers would have offered 5k more if it was UK sourced. Thats nonsense. I've been in this situation with a number of UK and Imported cars - it makes hardly any difference - FACT.
It sounds like this is your first experience of an import and the dealers have pulled your chain.
The car has probably depreciated loads as the CLK is pretty luke warm on the UK used market; don't confuse that with the relative value of imports/UK cars.
08-13-2004, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NastyAluQuadra
I don't believe it.
Are you seriously suggesting that some dealers would have offered 5k more if it was UK sourced. Thats nonsense. I've been in this situation with a number of UK and Imported cars - it makes hardly any difference - FACT.
It sounds like this is your first experience of an import and the dealers have pulled your chain.
The car has probably depreciated loads as the CLK is pretty luke warm on the UK used market; don't confuse that with the relative value of imports/UK cars.
Are you seriously suggesting that some dealers would have offered 5k more if it was UK sourced. Thats nonsense. I've been in this situation with a number of UK and Imported cars - it makes hardly any difference - FACT.
It sounds like this is your first experience of an import and the dealers have pulled your chain.
The car has probably depreciated loads as the CLK is pretty luke warm on the UK used market; don't confuse that with the relative value of imports/UK cars.
Anyway - its no big deal - I got my money back and im persuing compensation via my solicitor (who also advised that there are value differences between UK and import cars) so im happy.
All I wanted to know is if anybody else has had this happen to them - sounds like you as you dont even realize that there IS a price difference!
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08-14-2004, 05:49 AM
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I always admitted it does make a slight difference, but its never 3-5k. I'm interested in your experience, so bear with me as I'd like to fully understand what happened.
You were probably right to get your money back, but if pushed I reckon you could have secured the 800-1000k difference from the dealer, or secured the warranty - the only practical value issue. Your 3-5k claim was not realistic and the dealer rightly told you to poke off.
Talk me through the numbers - I guessing the car was advertised at around 28k - going rate for a 4pot CLK. You probably secured a discount of 500quid, and bought the car for 27.5k. How much were you offered from a dealer to buy it? - probably between 22k and 24k depending on market demand. You are therefore saying that the same car as an import is only worth 17-19k? I don't think you'll find that is the case. Even though the current CLK is a bit naff in parts, demand for it is still fairly strong.
(PS I bought a 52 registered CLK500 from Mayfair new - retail 47k, sold after six months for 42k - thats pretty solid residuals for an expensive car - almost as good as the early M3 days. Values have now plummeted since then of course).
You were probably right to get your money back, but if pushed I reckon you could have secured the 800-1000k difference from the dealer, or secured the warranty - the only practical value issue. Your 3-5k claim was not realistic and the dealer rightly told you to poke off.
Talk me through the numbers - I guessing the car was advertised at around 28k - going rate for a 4pot CLK. You probably secured a discount of 500quid, and bought the car for 27.5k. How much were you offered from a dealer to buy it? - probably between 22k and 24k depending on market demand. You are therefore saying that the same car as an import is only worth 17-19k? I don't think you'll find that is the case. Even though the current CLK is a bit naff in parts, demand for it is still fairly strong.
(PS I bought a 52 registered CLK500 from Mayfair new - retail 47k, sold after six months for 42k - thats pretty solid residuals for an expensive car - almost as good as the early M3 days. Values have now plummeted since then of course).
08-16-2004, 02:02 PM
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I started selling my SL350 today.
I had a reasonable offer already. Dealer wasn't at all fazed that its a Brussels car - the warranty price is the only discriminator between it and a UK car.
Shanus - you've gone quiet - realised your mistake?
Only trying to help old boy.
(Note the 42k value of the CLK500 after 6 months was the trade price - the dealer flogged it retail for 46k. 4k profit for him - this is under the normal 10% & is quite reasonable IMO)
I had a reasonable offer already. Dealer wasn't at all fazed that its a Brussels car - the warranty price is the only discriminator between it and a UK car.
Shanus - you've gone quiet - realised your mistake?
Only trying to help old boy.
(Note the 42k value of the CLK500 after 6 months was the trade price - the dealer flogged it retail for 46k. 4k profit for him - this is under the normal 10% & is quite reasonable IMO)
08-23-2004, 04:57 AM
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Been away for a week
Hi all,
Well I havnt gone quiet only that I was away for a week in Europe.
Anyway fyi heres the fugures:
28K for a 4pot CLK - no money off etc.
Values with 10 dealers of a UK car were between 23 and 27K
However values for an Import car were between 19 to 24K. So yes depending on what comparison you do it was between 3 and 5K difference.
Its seems you guys dont want to listen to what is ACTUALLY fact - baring in mind we had to do this excercise with the solicitor as well as trading standards - and whilst you all seem to feel its OK for this to happen and that the loss is NOT much, the solicitor and Trading Standards didnt! Hence the reason for persuing my money back and compensation.
Whilst I loved the car - im certainly NOT going to be ripped off by a main dealer - its absolutely disgusting behavior - oh and by the way I also called the Mercedes European Customer Services and funny enough they also said it was wrong that this happened and that it definately would affect the resale value of the car by afew thousand as the manufacrurer codes and setup of the car would NOT be to UK standards (those little codes at the back of the service book apparently mean quiet alot and on import cars the codes are different - even when it come to the paint colour)
I know you are all trying to help as you put it but you all need to wake up and realize that dealers are scewing ppl all over the place - just because it happens doesnt mean its right!
Well I havnt gone quiet only that I was away for a week in Europe.
Anyway fyi heres the fugures:
28K for a 4pot CLK - no money off etc.
Values with 10 dealers of a UK car were between 23 and 27K
However values for an Import car were between 19 to 24K. So yes depending on what comparison you do it was between 3 and 5K difference.
Its seems you guys dont want to listen to what is ACTUALLY fact - baring in mind we had to do this excercise with the solicitor as well as trading standards - and whilst you all seem to feel its OK for this to happen and that the loss is NOT much, the solicitor and Trading Standards didnt! Hence the reason for persuing my money back and compensation.
Whilst I loved the car - im certainly NOT going to be ripped off by a main dealer - its absolutely disgusting behavior - oh and by the way I also called the Mercedes European Customer Services and funny enough they also said it was wrong that this happened and that it definately would affect the resale value of the car by afew thousand as the manufacrurer codes and setup of the car would NOT be to UK standards (those little codes at the back of the service book apparently mean quiet alot and on import cars the codes are different - even when it come to the paint colour)
I know you are all trying to help as you put it but you all need to wake up and realize that dealers are scewing ppl all over the place - just because it happens doesnt mean its right!
08-23-2004, 05:24 AM
#11
Originally Posted by shanusanus
Hi all,
...........Its seems you guys dont want to listen to what is ACTUALLY fact - baring in mind we had to do this excercise with the solicitor as well as trading standards - and whilst you all seem to feel its OK for this to happen and that the loss is NOT much, the solicitor and Trading Standards didnt! Hence the reason for persuing my money back and compensation.
.........I know you are all trying to help as you put it but you all need to wake up and realize that dealers are scewing ppl all over the place - just because it happens doesnt mean its right!
...........Its seems you guys dont want to listen to what is ACTUALLY fact - baring in mind we had to do this excercise with the solicitor as well as trading standards - and whilst you all seem to feel its OK for this to happen and that the loss is NOT much, the solicitor and Trading Standards didnt! Hence the reason for persuing my money back and compensation.
.........I know you are all trying to help as you put it but you all need to wake up and realize that dealers are scewing ppl all over the place - just because it happens doesnt mean its right!
08-23-2004, 05:27 AM
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what the hell
this isnt about dealers selling a car for higher than what it shoudl be - its about a dealer selling an import car and not telling me! I only found out by doing a HPI check. Then when we contacted dealers reg the value difference between imports and Uk cars and there was a 3K to 5K difference - thats what this thread is about!
08-23-2004, 05:30 AM
#13
Originally Posted by shanusanus
this isnt about dealers selling a car for higher than what it shoudl be - its about a dealer selling an import car and not telling me! I only found out by doing a HPI check. Then when we contacted dealers reg the value difference between imports and Uk cars and there was a 3K to 5K difference - thats what this thread is about!
I can only imagine that your lawyer is far more tolerant of fools than I am.
08-23-2004, 06:25 AM
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Then when we contacted dealers reg the value difference between imports and Uk cars and there was a 3K to 5K difference - thats what this thread is about
I think I would have been prepared to take a few bob back in the hand, although since you didn't feel happy about the whole deal and the dishonesty ( fair enough , I agree) then getting your money back seems the best for you, but compensation I think is OTT
08-23-2004, 01:24 PM
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Shanus
Doesn't make sense. The value of the same car doesn't vary that much. For a start I don't believe for a second that a dealer offered you 27k for a car you paid 28k for - it'd have to be a charity (in the theoretical UK car scenario), or that the same car could credibly be worth 19k. If only...I'd give up the day job! You mention the manufacture codes - there is no reason to get this wrong, as it is quite easy to buy a 100% UK spec car abroad (if you know what you're doing). Did the car you bought have the wrong spec in some way - this would potentially make a difference, but a UK 4 pot CLK is almost as poorly spec'd as a GE 4 pot CLK from memory - so this is a red herring.
I've had 4 offers on my SL now, and they're all within several hundred pounds - and I'd get only a few hundred more if it were a UK car.
Like I said, in my experience, the difference is around 800GBP, and thats IF there is a difference in the warranty cover. If not, there is no practical difference. If you fitted COMAND to the car at your own expense which you couldn't recover come refund, then you should definately have
a). kept it
b). insisted on the warranty extension from the dealer to UK standard
c). tried to get AMGs or something as compensation as you were misold it (for which there is no excuse, assuming you asked if it were an import- if you didn't ask but assumed it was a UK car, then that is something else again. Most people don't care, so why should the garage assume you will? Having said that it does matter that you know what you are buying so it was quite right that you were able to get a refund).
You would have lost less money (assuming you lost the COMAND install costs - I'm not so clear on this).
BenCLK - you clearly know you stuff - did you have a CLK230K back in 1999 in that classic benz colour tansanite blue, or was that someone else?
Doesn't make sense. The value of the same car doesn't vary that much. For a start I don't believe for a second that a dealer offered you 27k for a car you paid 28k for - it'd have to be a charity (in the theoretical UK car scenario), or that the same car could credibly be worth 19k. If only...I'd give up the day job! You mention the manufacture codes - there is no reason to get this wrong, as it is quite easy to buy a 100% UK spec car abroad (if you know what you're doing). Did the car you bought have the wrong spec in some way - this would potentially make a difference, but a UK 4 pot CLK is almost as poorly spec'd as a GE 4 pot CLK from memory - so this is a red herring.
I've had 4 offers on my SL now, and they're all within several hundred pounds - and I'd get only a few hundred more if it were a UK car.
Like I said, in my experience, the difference is around 800GBP, and thats IF there is a difference in the warranty cover. If not, there is no practical difference. If you fitted COMAND to the car at your own expense which you couldn't recover come refund, then you should definately have
a). kept it
b). insisted on the warranty extension from the dealer to UK standard
c). tried to get AMGs or something as compensation as you were misold it (for which there is no excuse, assuming you asked if it were an import- if you didn't ask but assumed it was a UK car, then that is something else again. Most people don't care, so why should the garage assume you will? Having said that it does matter that you know what you are buying so it was quite right that you were able to get a refund).
You would have lost less money (assuming you lost the COMAND install costs - I'm not so clear on this).
BenCLK - you clearly know you stuff - did you have a CLK230K back in 1999 in that classic benz colour tansanite blue, or was that someone else?
08-23-2004, 01:32 PM
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I think you've also torpedoed your own argument by highlighting that one dealer quoted 24k for an import, and another 23k for a UK car.
Hence there is no difference in value!
If you aren't comparing cars of the same spec/colour, then the argument is worthless in any case, and the spec/colour is critical.
Silver & Obsidian Black YES
Ice Blue or any red - NOOOOOOoooooo wayyyy = Residual suicide!!!
Hence there is no difference in value!
If you aren't comparing cars of the same spec/colour, then the argument is worthless in any case, and the spec/colour is critical.
Silver & Obsidian Black YES
Ice Blue or any red - NOOOOOOoooooo wayyyy = Residual suicide!!!
08-24-2004, 02:38 AM
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nice reply Nasty... bout the colour thing 
No mine was silver - and yes I did lose out on the Command install
Anyway - all is in hand with the solicitor - im waiting on my compensation from the dealer.
My whole reason for this thread was to see if its a common thing for UK MB dealers to sell Import cars and not inform the buyer - it seems it does quiet alot - im shocked by this and I guess MB UK would be too - but it seems thats life though - guess I wont by buying from another merc dealer again though.
No mine was silver - and yes I did lose out on the Command install
Anyway - all is in hand with the solicitor - im waiting on my compensation from the dealer.
My whole reason for this thread was to see if its a common thing for UK MB dealers to sell Import cars and not inform the buyer - it seems it does quiet alot - im shocked by this and I guess MB UK would be too - but it seems thats life though - guess I wont by buying from another merc dealer again though.
08-24-2004, 05:59 AM
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BenCLK - you clearly know you stuff - did you have a CLK230K back in 1999 in that classic benz colour tansanite blue, or was that someone else?
Shanusanus who fitted the COMMAND and was it pricey ??
08-24-2004, 08:09 AM
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Braybrooks fitted it - £1600 all in.
Went and took my car over to them and they had it fitted in half an hour - top job!
Went and took my car over to them and they had it fitted in half an hour - top job!
08-25-2004, 02:05 PM
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In reply Shanus. Yes I think is it common for Merc to offer imports through dealers. As far as I'm aware they are always upfront about this and its quite common to see "EU supplied" in web adverts to highlight imports.
I think Merc are actually doing the right thing in this instance. How refreshing for a dealer not to pretend there is some great value difference just because it didn't come through the UK concessionaire? Those that do pretend are the muppets, not Mayfair who don't think it matters.
I'm far more comfortable with the fact that Merc dealers on the whole won't bull**** you into thinking that a UK car is worth more than an import - why on earth should it be? All the RHD CLKs come out of the same factory in Bremen at the end of the day and UK spec is just a bunch of codes anyone can create when ordering a Mercedes.
I find the attitude of Audi far more irritating as they try and pretend it does matter if its an import and turn their nose up at them. UK punters are daft to put up with it. Why should you, a consumer, put up with a UK dealer refusing to treat your hungary built imported TT the same as one bought at inflated prices in the UK? They aren't the manufacturer, but have been trusted to provide after care for their products. I've never had an Audi, and this is one of the (many) reasons they can shove it.
If you read the Mobilo life cover from the factory, you'll realise what a smart Euro wide warranty deal you get no matter where you a) bought it and b) are driving it. If your UK CLK breaks in Germany - you'll get water tight top notch dealer treatment, even if it runs out of petrol (infact in my experience it'll be better than you get in the overstretched UK dealer network). This 2 year package has nothing to do with where you bought it.
Very impressed that you managed to get COMAND for less than its factory fit cost. Very surprising, as I assumed there would be expensive loom and GPS antenna issues. Was it a new unit, or second hand?
I think Merc are actually doing the right thing in this instance. How refreshing for a dealer not to pretend there is some great value difference just because it didn't come through the UK concessionaire? Those that do pretend are the muppets, not Mayfair who don't think it matters.
I'm far more comfortable with the fact that Merc dealers on the whole won't bull**** you into thinking that a UK car is worth more than an import - why on earth should it be? All the RHD CLKs come out of the same factory in Bremen at the end of the day and UK spec is just a bunch of codes anyone can create when ordering a Mercedes.
I find the attitude of Audi far more irritating as they try and pretend it does matter if its an import and turn their nose up at them. UK punters are daft to put up with it. Why should you, a consumer, put up with a UK dealer refusing to treat your hungary built imported TT the same as one bought at inflated prices in the UK? They aren't the manufacturer, but have been trusted to provide after care for their products. I've never had an Audi, and this is one of the (many
) reasons they can shove it.If you read the Mobilo life cover from the factory, you'll realise what a smart Euro wide warranty deal you get no matter where you a) bought it and b) are driving it. If your UK CLK breaks in Germany - you'll get water tight top notch dealer treatment, even if it runs out of petrol (infact in my experience it'll be better than you get in the overstretched UK dealer network). This 2 year package has nothing to do with where you bought it.
Very impressed that you managed to get COMAND for less than its factory fit cost. Very surprising, as I assumed there would be expensive loom and GPS antenna issues. Was it a new unit, or second hand?
Last edited by NastyAluQuadra; 08-25-2004 at 03:40 PM.
08-25-2004, 02:34 PM
#22
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SL500
I suppose I should also say I know several buyers for Merc dealers who won't penalise you for having an import.
It won't help your compensation claim, but something to bear in mind next time.
It won't help your compensation claim, but something to bear in mind next time.
08-25-2004, 03:23 PM
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C32 AMG, CL500, Jag StypeR, SLK200, Aygo, Audi TT
Braybrooks were great - it was a new unit all boxed etc and a 3rd party GPS aerial and a loom adapter I think - not sure - I watched them do it in 30 minutes - impressive stuff indeed!
08-25-2004, 03:26 PM
#24
Originally Posted by shanusanus
Braybrooks were great - it was a new unit all boxed etc and a 3rd party GPS aerial and a loom adapter I think - not sure - I watched them do it in 30 minutes - impressive stuff indeed!
In any case the COMAND probably came from MBenzNL. It would be cheaper to buy if from him directly.
Last edited by miroj; 08-25-2004 at 03:40 PM.
