WTDoom

in fairness i dont think its so cut and dry at all . factually it seems so but perhaps not under closer scrutiny .
first of all please dont think i am just stirring up a hornets nest . nothing could be further from the truth . i am merely enjoying a debate with intelligent car guys on a subject discussed by all of us at one time or another . for me a car enthusiast can do whatever he likes , its his money his buzz . no harm is done to anyone . its his choice or yours should you choose to modify one of your cars .
we havent even met the owner . also fake (when used in the noun form ) traditionally means anything made to appear otherwise than it actually is for example counterfeit: This rolex is a fake . in this case its dubious if it applies as there is no " rolex " so to speak in the first place , but i concede a grey area .
why can this just not be someone that wants their car to be different ? he hasnt come on here claiming the car to be a one off build from affalterbach for 4 million euro for example or something to that effect . he wants a black series conv so he puts on a bodykit and a sticker , big deal !
i have an interesting question for you .
i have a replica of a historic 911 i use for historic stuff ( trackdays the odd rally etc) . i enjoy the feel and experience of the older cars . i certainly didnt build it to impress or deceive anyone . am i a poser ? please be honest im genuinely interested to know the opinions .
does it matter that i have a 911 st in the garage that i do not like to risk too much in combat ?

i just think its harsh to name a fellow car person a poser when we have no evidence to the contrary that the owner/builder is nothing more than a bs fan that wanted the looks and aesthetics of a black series ( obviously not the performance and handling ) in a cabrio . a car that i may remind you all is not available from amg at this moment in time .
i do however think comments such as " death to the posers " show a remarkably puerile and childish opinion to the wishes and desires of a car nut ( by another alleged car nut ) for nothing more than a body kit .
freedom of expression is important lets defend ones choice to express that freedom .

i can not and will not defend the nutters you have had on here in the past pretending to own this and that when they truly dont . that seems sad and a little disturbing to me . they to me are posers ! perhaps you guys have had to deal with so many of these kooks that you are a little hard on nothing more than a modified car ( i can really understand this by the way ) .

best wishes
wt

DFW01E55

I guess the after "Death to the posers" did not adequately convey the sarcasm intended.
Maybe a LOLZ next time?
I was upping the ante on Nielsll post #4, which was clearly sarcasm (at least to me).

Defining "poser" has caused waaaay too much deep thought here.

WTDoom

( shhhhhhh i was using that to bolster my opinion , quick change your post !!)

LZH

Your post, while well intended, only comes down to a couple points:


Just becasue one is an enthusiast about what they do, does not always make it right. Sure, you can do whatever you want. But the same freedom afforded to those who would bas!ardize a perfectly good vehicle to look like something it isn't (and doesn't even exist), is the same freedom afforded to me to be critical and express my opinion.
It's not like stuff like this keeps me up at night....I just think too many people try to make themselves and their cars look like something they are not.

WTDoom

actually i raised a few points and a couple of questions , but thats ok it was a long post .
i am with you 100 percent about the right to be critical , i just thought it was a little harsh to call him a poser .
what of the customization business ? where would we be without manthey , cargraphic , kleeman , parr , shelby , evosport , ruf , racing technologies , fearnsport , gemballa et all ?
( before anyone says it , i know it can be argued we would be better off without )

LZH

I don't think the afermarket performance industry has any bearing in this conversation. For one simple reason....the car in question, although made by a tuner, is made to look like a factory car that does not exist and furthermore is pretending to be a BS and IS NOT.
If they had made a car and slapped some "VRP 850" or "EVO3" or "EVOMS 1000" badge on it I wouldn't call it posing becasue they simply made their own product and are not attemting to fool anyone. The BS badge and the title in the video "Mercedes CLK 63 AMG black series convertible" = POSING.
If you make something and you are proud of it, at least be honest about what it REALLY is.

WTDoom

sorry mate i think it is relevant , as you pointed out yourself its a tuned car built by tuners . i think the badging is irrelevant , its a personal thing and does not make it so .
how can an object look like something that does not exist ? the fact that it does not exist is definite surely ?
you are not going to change my mind and i am obviously not going to change yours so maybe we should leave it ?
posing is to strong a term for such a well made car ( of witch there is no factory version to copy! ). the owner has built this with a lot of time, attention and money (and does own it, it exists ) so its not posing in my book .
its modifying ( bad or good is in debate ) this guy is nothing like some of the loons you guys have discovered on this site and ( rightly ) shot down in flames .
this is much closer to the crazy " black series " type car the guy on this forum made ( out of a clk coupe i think ) with ten million horsepower . most guys seemed impressed with that and not with this .
why ? because of a badge ? thats funny
this forums obsession with posers borders on the unhealthy .

SMP

I can think of a few so called factory "poser" cars that not only came from AMG, but other manufacturers. So, one more is not going to make a difference, I think. Here they are: Audi RS4 convert., BMW M3/M6 convert., Porsche turbo convert. and last, but not least, the ultimate "poser" car Mercedes Benz CLK DTM convert. On any of those cars, the manufacturer tries to make the car as performance oriented as possible for the street, and than chops the roof off and adds a whole lot of bracing, so that it doesn't twist like a wet leaf. If you think about it, it's really counter productive. But there is obviously a market, and every manufacturer caters to it. It's certainly not my cup of tea. But if it makes someone happy to drive any of those cars, good for them. Who cares, really?

SMP

Good point, WT! At least KKS presented a finished product, unlike the guy and his 1000 HP monster (and his claim to do it for a fraction of the price of a real BS) dream that never came to fruition.

WTDoom

thanks for that as i was going to go on and ask whatever happened to that project .

LZH

I believe he sold the car and is looking for a real BS. And FWIW, he was upfront from the get go that this was a conversion and it had NO BS badges. Yes, a badge means alot...to me at least.

user z478747

badge on a fake = poser!

WTDoom

i was genuinely interested , i thought that was a great ( if somewhat optimistic ) project .
also we have worked out that this is not a real black series either mate

WTDoom

in your opinion
i was counting the seconds for you to enter the conversation chuck z

Me transmitte sursum, caledoni !

SMP

Luke, it was missing the fender liners, but did have BS badges. Nothing escapes my scrutinizing eyes .

Akademiks

But what if it didn't have the "BS" badges? I agree 110 percent, if you badge it's deception-- but just the kit? I guess here's where I disagree. I would see nothing wrong with the CLK sporting a BS bodykit, and no black series badge.

WTDoom

i like your logic . personally i dont even mind the badges especially if there is no clk amg black series conv in the first place .
what say you guv ?

user z478747

That's right! Fake = POSER!

Should I consider your comment bait?

As long as you don't badge the fake, I'm good with it. It's not POSER. I like custom stuff as much as any of you guys as long as its well done; just don't like trying to fool people into thinking the fake is something it ain't (that's southern for NOT btw )!

Got me on this one! Had to google it! transmitte sursum, caledoni = (Beam me up Scotty)

transferred

Well said, SMP...especially the last part.

WTDoom

nicely done sir !( on the beam me up scotty. my resolve was waning !!)

im afraid i still disagree with you . i see nothing wrong with badging a custom car especially as a bs conv does not exist . ( if it did i may agree with you more , but i doubt it im very easy going and like to live and let live . imo if he wants to badge it , i feel inclined to just let him , no biggie .)
it is a custom mate and a very well built one at that to be fair .
please dont think i was baiting im very straight up and down and mean exactly what i say, thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt .
this conversation is going to far but the poor owner isnt here to defend himself and im afraid i can not stop . who cares ? let him have his car , how about we just leave him to it and not judge someone we have never met on a badge ? especially someone that is obviously one of us , the dying breed of motorcar enthusiasts .
p.s
we have aint here also also , dont worry .

user z478747

I have to admit WT, that one made me chuckle. I guess my issue with the whole POSER topic is; it would emberass me for car guys to ask me "is that a real......". Guess that's why I would never have a Cobra?

Alexbenz

wow the so called poser unit is taking over this thread.........ahahhaa

to me and only to me which matters the most cause when you mod your car you do it for the joy of yourself and not others.......

i believe doing the conversion would be fine as long as you don't rock the black series badge.. if it were a clk55 i'd still rock it as that but if you like the styling of the kit then so be it.....

TTAMG

You got some bones to pick or something? This is like the 4th time you've mentioned me in a post. Instead of all the negativity why don't you stand up for the fellow mercedes guys that actually take these motors apart with no help and give up vital info on the engine that is in pretty much every AMG car. When i do finish the project I will point and laugh. Don't worry you still drive a clk, a car that can be remade just like how i did it a long time ago. Dont get me wrong i am looking for the real one myself because i love the car, but you better believe people with some skill and knowledge will make fake ones. Go buy a lambo or something so you can stop beating a dead horse about posers.

SMP

Negativity? Bones to pick? Beating a dead horse? Please do show me where I started a threat about posers. It was you who claimed you will be able to built a better Black Series from a 6 cyl. CLK for a fraction of the price what we paid for a real one. It was me who pointed out that this was possible, but not for a fraction of the price of a real Black Series. It was also me who praised you for your efforts. It was you who asked for advice on HRE M40 monoblok's. It was me who gave you the wheel and tire fitment from my car. Re-read your old post's, it's all there.

In regards to your more personal comments about me. First, there is a motto I live by: "Don't fiddle about it, just do it". I never announce to the world what I'm going to do whenever I'm going to do it. I simply just do it. I know it's "just" a CLK that I own. Not only was it the top of the line CLK, but most importantly, it was the car that I wanted. So I went to the dealer and wrote a check for it, just like I did with my other/previous cars. When I get a Lamborghini, it will be dealt with in the same fashion. Brand new off the showroom floor with a check written. Don't get me wrong, I'm very lucky and fortunate to do so. I wasn't born into money and know what it's like to struggle. Because I'm aware of that, I also donate a lot of time and money for good causes.

Relax, it's all good

TTAMG

Trust me its much cheaper to build a look-a-like. Been there done that. Like you said i dont want to announce to the whole world what i am doing. I just stopped posting and someone else said i sold it and that I'm looking for a real one. Anyways cheers man.