mazzojo

Well it probably is the case. I imagine it's hard to claim on the warranty for a tire. I use it more as a go by as to how long a tire should last. The Mich's are 500 tread wear which means a higher compound of rubber is used and not as soft so theoretically should last longer vs. the PZero's which are at 220 tread wear. I think the Conti's are a 50K mile tire so around the same tread wear as the Mich's. The Pzero's are a N/A mile warranty.

citizensane

I am a new CLS owner--from what I can tell based on reading and my car's history (a 2014 bot with 35K mi on it--a 4 matic)---these cars EAT tires.
My car had new Conti's put on it 4K miles ago (2K miles before I bought it) and the fronts are already feathered and creating tire noise.
Had it aligned at MB and was told it was SLIGHTLY out of alignment.
Also--MB dealer is insisting that ONLY an MB dealer has the equipment to properly align this model. NTB has a deal these michelns which is equal to tire rack and they throw in free mount and balance and alignments for a year plus a nominal fee for a 3 year alignment program.
Any knowledge on wheel alignments? Have decided that this is going to be a yearly maintenance expense for me
thanks

kaetamer

Heavy car, heavily cambered rear wheels, high horsepower. Yeah, EATS tires.

Ernest7878

Thanks bro!

K-Mac

That’s right because OEM there is only front and rear basic Toe/directional adjustment!

No Camber or Caster to adjust tire contact angle. We saw the need therefore to design and re-instate from the early 90’ full/precise adjustment capability.

The K-MAC patented design also at the same time replaces the 4 front and rear highest wearing bushings.

Is precise single wrench adjustment – accurately under load direct on alignment rack. For the front (only) you can fit inaccurate “one only offset position” fluted bolts but they only supply 1/8” (3mm). K-MAC kit provides up to 3 times this adjustment range and the bushings are also designed to still supply 2 axis movement but without the OEM oil and air voids. Result is therefore significantly improved brake and steering response.

CAMBER – Allows to actually change the tire contact angle resolving costly, premature edge wear, improving traction/understeer/oversteer

CASTER – Correctly resolves steering pull, increases steering response. With better turn in and high speed directional control. Along with improved anti dive/lift under brake and acceleration.

Essential for day to day commuting encountering high cambered roads, altering/lowering height, load carrying, suspension sag, fitting wide profile tires or curb knock damage. Track days capability to dial in extra negative front Camber and fine tune rear for maximum traction.

Rear Camber kit includes ‘extra’ Toe adjustment to compensate for the new Camber facility. Adjusts the lower control arm inwards (comes with bush extraction tool allowing to install on vehicle). We do not manufacture adjustable ‘arms’ – as difficult to install/adjust and to resolve premature inner edge wear need to reduce all important clearance top of tire to outer fender.

Front Camber and Caster kit P/N 502916K $480
Rear Camber (and extra Toe) Kit P/N 502226K $480

Also manufactured is set of ‘12’ bushings for the 6 ‘multi link rear arms’. Designed to significantly improve rear end stability, reduce twitch/flex, gain traction – especially when applying power lane changing/overtaking. P/N 502628L $480

Delivery one kit $40 or front and rear kits $50. We accept PayPal, Visa or MasterCard.

mazzojo

Here's some more pics

citizensane

K-MAC
According to this MB training film. Camber and Caster are adjustable on MB models.


What am I missing? Please explain the need for your product based on this training film
thanks

kaetamer

The video is from 2001...

citizensane

how about this one?

It's from 2012

I find it hard to believe that MB cars aren't setup to be able to adjust the camber and caster and that something after market has to be installed to do so. Isn't camber and caster critical to good alignment?

BUT--I am certainly no mechanic.

kaetamer

I find it hard to believe anyone eats asparagus or thinks the moon landings were faked but there are no camber adjustments on a 2014 CLS550 4matic. Perhaps other years do.

kaetamer

The other point worth making is K-MAC doesn't tell you it will likely cost about $1000 to install their camber kits. Their kits + installation = 2 sets of tires.
DAMHIK.

citizensane

That is amazing. Fortunately my driving is down to about 10K miles/year.
Maybe a set of tires can last me a couple of years---but that is not what the previous owner of my car experienced (his appeared to be a lot less than 20K miles)

kaetamer

I have a set of Bridgestone S-04s. Grippy but noisy - need to be replaced after ~12,000 miles and I don't drive the car aggressively. I won't be getting another set.

citizensane

So--what is the preferred all season rated tire set? The Michelin Pilot sport A/s's seem to get the best reviews---but I've always had good luck with the Conti-s (on previous Audi-s--though)

K-Mac

The MB Training video shows factory rear “Camber Adjustment” being carried out on a early W163 SUV!!

Front Camber and Caster or Rear Camber is not available on “any model” Sedan or Wagon - Only Front and Rear basic Toe.

The 2nd video also depicts only adjustment of Toe.

As explained (and the 1st. Training video emphasis) day to day commuting can encounter other then showroom height conditions - high cambered roads, altering height through either lowering, load carrying, worn bushings (or curb knock damage). Camber (and Caster) adjustment is therefore essential.

Yet this is only available (on the front) by purchasing inaccurate “one only offset position” fluted bolts. Which provide a minimal 1/8” (3mm).

No full (and precise) adjustment range. This is why we saw the need to design and re-instate from the early 90’s this full / precise / easy to adjust - with “ongoing” capabilities. Providing up to 3 times the adjustment (and accurately on alignment rack - under load) - fixing it right the 1st. time. With also the advantage of replacing the 4 Front And Rear highest wearing suspension bushings at the same time! The front K-MAC bushings also significantly improve brake and steering response.

The K-MAC rang covers virtually every model 1968 to 2017 including all AMG and Black Series (Pre early 90’s with OEM adjustment - kits are designed to also replace existing bushings and double adjustment range).

citizensane

Okay
so , what would you estimate the total installed cost for front and rear on a 200014 CLS 550?

K-Mac

Yes $480 Front, $480 Rear but do point out there are other kits out there priced at $2200 each. Yet with less adjustment range and nowhere near the development input of K-MAC.

Our accounting firm also has their view point on pricing - they cannot believe the amount/ratio K-MAC spends on R&D! Anything and everything can be improved so we are always out there doing just that (far better than sourcing imports or sitting on the fence and doing nothing flawlessly).

The end result shows with having the World’s largest range Audi to Volvo and more patents on design breakthroughs than all other alignment kit companies. This includes front and rear Camber and Caster kits to suit Mercedes Benz models - sedans, wagons, SUV’s and all light commercials. Also/small proportion of other inventions are:

Inventing the adjustable ball joint - now the industry standard for wishbone suspensions

Suspension bushings - Precise single wrench adjustment accurately (under load). Revolution in design – no more the time consuming need for bush removal and inaccurate repositioning each time an alignment setting needed to be changed

Strut top suspensions - Camber and Caster biggest (and quickest) adjustment system

2005 on Mustang (and 2010 on Camaro) - Eliminating the need for strut removal or strut tower modifications to adjust

BMW ‘F’ Series (F20-87) and Mini - front Camber and also Caster adjustment for the first time

Popular 2 bolt flange struts – Camber - Eliminating the need for downsizing/weakening one of the two critical bolts that hold the stub/axle wheels on

citizensane

So, $1K for the parts ---what is the estimated labor cost to install these at an Indy shop (since I'm sure no MB dealer would touch this)?

Understand--this is all about whether or not your product would help extend tire life and by how much. This is about saving $ on replacement tires

citizensane

re reading this thread--IF Kaetamer is correct and it's $1K to install these things---for a total cost of $2K---then unless your kits can extend tire life by 2 or 3X and assuming one drives 15K miles/year (which I do not anymore)---this is a bad investment for me. I'd have to drive a lot more and/or own this car for many years to get an acceptable payback on this "investment" (versus just buying new tires at $1K per set) and realizing the many variables involved in tire wear---and how difficult is would be to even assess the effectiveness of your product---this doesn't look like a good bet for me.
Maybe it's really for a heavy driver who also tracks his car---and has $ to burn

mazzojo

Well if anyone is interested in my Wheels and tires. Here's my ebay listing. $850 OBO for the set. http://www.ebay.com/itm/332234583053...84.m1555.l2649

kaetamer

I reached the same conclusion. New tires seemed like a better solution than changing suspension to (maybe) save older tires.

kaetamer

I'm still interested in a single front rim if it comes to that...

kaetamer

Best reviews where?

citizensane

Tire Rack and a lot of other people who claim to know

K-Mac

You would need to check out local alignment shops re fit charges.

Kits come with step by step instructions:

Basically front installation entails removal of the 4 alloy control arms.

Then use of the extraction/insertion tubes provided to replace bushes using a bench press. Then re-installing arms on vehicle

Rear – bush extraction tool allows the main lower arm inner bushes to be removed on vehicle and then insertion of the K-MAC replacement Camber bushes.

Kit includes replacement Toe arm bushes allowing the extra adjustment required once rear has the Camber facility.

The K-MAC unique adjustment system then allows (for the first time) front and rear wheel alignment to be carried out “accurately” – precise single wrench “under load” direct on alignment rack! With the bonus of replacing at the same time the front and rear highest wearing suspension bushes.