What Did you Pay for Your CLS?
06-05-2005, 09:51 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by swisstrader
I have no need for a whole host of options and when people say you MUST have this car optioned out, they have no clue....keyless go has caused a boatload of problems for some MB users
Keyless Go is an option??? Man - I will NEVER own another car without Keyless Go - it is the single must have best option ever!!!
06-06-2005, 12:10 PM
#27
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Spyker C8, MB ML63 AMG, land rover
Originally Posted by john87699
Keyless Go is an option??? Man - I will NEVER own another car without Keyless Go - it is the single must have best option ever!!!
#597 of 619 Re: Mercedes Quality [shoes #577] by merebenz May 13, 2004 (2:42 pm)
Reply | E-mail Msg
I AM HAVING THE SAME PROBLEMS WITH MY 2003 SL 500. IT IS ALWAYS AT THE DEALERSHIP AND IT SEEMS THEY DO NOTHING. I PAID A 104,000 FOR IT AND ALL I END UP DRIVING IS LOANER CARS!
PROBLEMS: BRAKING PROBLEMS, GAS TANK NOISE, TRUNK NOISE, BRAKES SLIPPING AND KNOCKING, NAV GOING OFF, ROOF LEAKING, CAR NOT STARTING, KEYLESS GO NOT WORKING, KEY IS GETTING STUCK IN IGNITION (I USE WHEN KEYLESS GO ISN'T WORKING....I PAID FOR KEYLESS GO AND HAVE TO CARY THE ACTUAL KEY AROUND B/C THAT NEVER WORKS)!
THE CAR NOW HAS 14,000 MILES ON IT AT LESS THAN 8,000 THE DEALERSHIP GOT INTO AN ACCIDENT WITH MY CAR. NOW I SEE THERE IS A RECALL ON THE BRAKES. I AM SURE THE BRAKES MALFUNCTIONED ON THE DRIVER FROM THE DEALERSHIP BUT THEY WOULD NOT ADMIT IT.
THEN AT 14,000 THEY HIT SOMETHING ELSE WITH THE CAR WHEN IT WAS IN THEIR CARE....THE FRONT WAS DAMAGED AND ALL PAINT CHIPS ON MY CAR
EVERYONE PLEASE BE AWARE THAT MB AND THE DEALERSHIPS DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE CONSUMER. IF YOU WANT AN SL BE PREPAIRED FOR TROUBLE.
RE: Keyless-GO
I read all what is written in the manual about this feature. I still do not understand why is it made. With the SmartKey I press a button to unlock the car, with the KeylessGo we must press a button on the door handle, so what. So far the only difference is that with KeylessGo we press the Start Button to start the engine otherwise we use the SmartKey like every other car. My neighbor has the KeylessGo on his SL-500 and seems to use it more as a talking subject than a real convenience feature. Here is a known problem with the KeylessGo: if you leave the car (with your KeylessGO Fob) with the engine running, the engine will keep running until someone depresses the Start Button or someone else drives away with it.
If any body has this feature, please share your thoughts.
From Nash Rambler Car Reviews:
"There were a couple of things I couldn't figure out about the car, even after consulting the user's manual, a rarity in my line of work. First of all, the top of the automatic gear shifter sported a "keyless go" feature, presumably to let you start the car without the key, or in some secure association with the key. Once I was able to start the car by pushing this button but I couldn't repeat the necessary sequence. So I just started the car the old fashioned way, with the key!" I decided I could live without the expensive "keyless go" option."
06-06-2005, 03:33 PM
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Spyker C8, MB ML63 AMG, land rover
More on keyless go...again, in my view, I could never understand people who will spend over $1,000 on a feature which basically replaces you having to push the alarm off/unlock doors button...a huge save!....NOT!
MSN auto reviews on keyless go technology cite a whole host of concerns including batteries that eventually die and could leave you stranded, to known outages at or near certain gas stations, military sites, or broadcast stations, not being able to let the valets park your car any longer and the introduction of yet another piece of technology that can go very wrong and be costly to get fixed.
If you own an MB, the fobs are customized to each car, so if you lost one, you would need to go to a dealer, show proof of ownership of the car, and then order a new fob, which is produced at an off-site, secure facility and then shipped to the dealer. This whole process could take days or weeks and is much more costly than simply replacing a key.
More from MSN reviews on Keyless Go:
But this new convenience feature also adds a new level of complex engineering.
For example, seven antennas are in the new top-level Avalon Limited sedan, helping the standard Smart Key system operate, according to Paul Williamsen, curriculum development manager at the University of Toyota.
Though these antennas use a radio frequency to operate, they have nothing to do with the car's radio, he noted. The seven antennas are in the Avalon only to communicate with the Smart Key fob that the driver can carry in a pocket or purse.
Four of the antennas are found in the doors—one in each door so a driver can walk up to any of them and open just that door. There's another antenna in the trunk lid to detect if the driver walks up to the trunk and wants to open it. There's a sixth antenna inside the car that senses it's okay to start the engine when the Smart Key is in the vehicle, and there's a seventh antenna that's a safeguard. It's designed to detect if the Smart Key might happen to be mistakenly placed or left inside the trunk. If this occurs, the trunk lid pops open on its own so the driver can retrieve the "lost" Smart Key fob.
Toyota isn't the only automaker going to such lengths to get away from traditional keys.
In engineering the Keyless Access system found on the Cadillac STS and XLR, engineers made sure the cars routinely check the battery strength of the new fobs because they are so critical, said GM's Holman. So, when a battery gets low in an STS fob, the driver is alerted via a message on the dashboard, he said. As a further backup, Cadillac still provides what it calls "mechanical key access" to the vehicle.
But Toyota's Williamsen said it's up to a driver of the Avalon to notice if a fob battery is weakening, which likely will show up as a reduction in the working range of the fob. "As a backup, if yes, the battery gets weak and doesn't work from two feet away, in a pinch, you can hold the fob right next to the door handle and it will open the door," he said. This is because the little, shiny silver-colored Toyota logo on the fob incorporates part of an antenna, he said.
Some Interesting Situations
But there still could be snafus.
Williamsen said an early Toyota smart key application a few years ago showed "occasional interference" when cars were at or near some Exxon and Mobil gasoline stations. It turned out the stations had cardless pay systems which "flooded" their locations with the same radio wave spectrum that the autos were using.
"You only lost a small functionality" but it was enough to require changes, he said.
Meantime, GM engineers realized there are rare spots—at some military sites, near broadcast towers and by airports—where a car could be "in a severe RF [radio frequency] environment" that could affect the Keyless Access system, according to Tom Dutter, lead engineer for Keyless Access. So, they installed a "high-power" bypass inside the car to ensure a driver isn't stranded, he said.
Many tech-wary consumers might wonder if it's all worth it.
But Dan Bonawitz, vice president for corporate planning and logistics at American Honda Motor Co. Inc., said electronic features are growing, in part because the cost of such technology is lower than ever before. Honda's Acura luxury line introduced its first car with a standard Keyless Access system for the 2005 model year.
It's the Acura RL sedan and is a bit different from others because there's no start button on the dashboard. The RL has something that looks like a key stub that has to be turned, just as a driver would turn an ignition key. But the RL's stub doesn't have a slot for a key to be inserted.
Auto industry officials also cite competition for the proliferation of new technology in cars.
"We saw [hands-free entry systems] being implemented in Europe and we anticipated it coming to the U.S. market," Dutter said, explaining how the XLR debuted as a 2004 model with Keyless Access.
With the exception of the Prius, which is a gasoline-electric sedan with a starting manufacturer's suggested retail price around $21,000, most vehicles offered with a smart key feature are high-priced and luxury models. And it appears the higher the price, the more likely a buyer is to get it.
For example, Borenius said up to 80 percent of the V12-powered Mercedes S600 buyers have been adding the optional Keyless Go system. But when other, lower-priced models of S-Class are added in, the percentage drops to about 25 percent.
The S600 starts around $125,000, while the starting price for a base S-Class is around $75,000.
Likely to Go Beyond Luxury Models
Officials expect the technology to spread to lower-priced cars.
"I personally think it's a natural evolution of keyless entry and we'll see more market penetration," Dutter said. "We'll see the same kind of proliferation that we saw in the early '90s when keyless entry [began to spread to lots of cars]."
Some Important Tips
But there is a learning curve. For example, this writer found herself exiting the RL and Infiniti's M cars after shifting into Park, only to discover the engine was still running. With no key to turn and remove from the ignition and put in my hand, I had to retrain myself to stop stepping out of the car until I pressed the engine button on the dashboard.
Valet parking is another situation that can require retraining, since a valet driver will have no way to start the vehicle once it's parked unless he or she has a fob, too. Yet many car owners are likely to exit their cars and leave with their fobs in their pocket or purse. The engines remain on and the valets can drive the cars away for parking. But once the vehicles are turned off, the valets will have no way of restarting them without the fobs.
"What we have seen is when people see it, at first, there's a little hurdle," Holman said. "It may take a couple weeks or a month [to adjust]."
Smart key systems don't require regular maintenance, and the fob batteries, which are generally akin to those used for watches, should last up to three years, officials said.
Still, replacing a Keyless Go fob will cost more than an old-fashioned key would because the fob includes technology, Borenius said. Officials at Mercedes and Toyota said the price for replacement fobs could be $200-plus.
MSN auto reviews on keyless go technology cite a whole host of concerns including batteries that eventually die and could leave you stranded, to known outages at or near certain gas stations, military sites, or broadcast stations, not being able to let the valets park your car any longer and the introduction of yet another piece of technology that can go very wrong and be costly to get fixed.
If you own an MB, the fobs are customized to each car, so if you lost one, you would need to go to a dealer, show proof of ownership of the car, and then order a new fob, which is produced at an off-site, secure facility and then shipped to the dealer. This whole process could take days or weeks and is much more costly than simply replacing a key.
More from MSN reviews on Keyless Go:
But this new convenience feature also adds a new level of complex engineering.
For example, seven antennas are in the new top-level Avalon Limited sedan, helping the standard Smart Key system operate, according to Paul Williamsen, curriculum development manager at the University of Toyota.
Though these antennas use a radio frequency to operate, they have nothing to do with the car's radio, he noted. The seven antennas are in the Avalon only to communicate with the Smart Key fob that the driver can carry in a pocket or purse.
Four of the antennas are found in the doors—one in each door so a driver can walk up to any of them and open just that door. There's another antenna in the trunk lid to detect if the driver walks up to the trunk and wants to open it. There's a sixth antenna inside the car that senses it's okay to start the engine when the Smart Key is in the vehicle, and there's a seventh antenna that's a safeguard. It's designed to detect if the Smart Key might happen to be mistakenly placed or left inside the trunk. If this occurs, the trunk lid pops open on its own so the driver can retrieve the "lost" Smart Key fob.
Toyota isn't the only automaker going to such lengths to get away from traditional keys.
In engineering the Keyless Access system found on the Cadillac STS and XLR, engineers made sure the cars routinely check the battery strength of the new fobs because they are so critical, said GM's Holman. So, when a battery gets low in an STS fob, the driver is alerted via a message on the dashboard, he said. As a further backup, Cadillac still provides what it calls "mechanical key access" to the vehicle.
But Toyota's Williamsen said it's up to a driver of the Avalon to notice if a fob battery is weakening, which likely will show up as a reduction in the working range of the fob. "As a backup, if yes, the battery gets weak and doesn't work from two feet away, in a pinch, you can hold the fob right next to the door handle and it will open the door," he said. This is because the little, shiny silver-colored Toyota logo on the fob incorporates part of an antenna, he said.
Some Interesting Situations
But there still could be snafus.
Williamsen said an early Toyota smart key application a few years ago showed "occasional interference" when cars were at or near some Exxon and Mobil gasoline stations. It turned out the stations had cardless pay systems which "flooded" their locations with the same radio wave spectrum that the autos were using.
"You only lost a small functionality" but it was enough to require changes, he said.
Meantime, GM engineers realized there are rare spots—at some military sites, near broadcast towers and by airports—where a car could be "in a severe RF [radio frequency] environment" that could affect the Keyless Access system, according to Tom Dutter, lead engineer for Keyless Access. So, they installed a "high-power" bypass inside the car to ensure a driver isn't stranded, he said.
Many tech-wary consumers might wonder if it's all worth it.
But Dan Bonawitz, vice president for corporate planning and logistics at American Honda Motor Co. Inc., said electronic features are growing, in part because the cost of such technology is lower than ever before. Honda's Acura luxury line introduced its first car with a standard Keyless Access system for the 2005 model year.
It's the Acura RL sedan and is a bit different from others because there's no start button on the dashboard. The RL has something that looks like a key stub that has to be turned, just as a driver would turn an ignition key. But the RL's stub doesn't have a slot for a key to be inserted.
Auto industry officials also cite competition for the proliferation of new technology in cars.
"We saw [hands-free entry systems] being implemented in Europe and we anticipated it coming to the U.S. market," Dutter said, explaining how the XLR debuted as a 2004 model with Keyless Access.
With the exception of the Prius, which is a gasoline-electric sedan with a starting manufacturer's suggested retail price around $21,000, most vehicles offered with a smart key feature are high-priced and luxury models. And it appears the higher the price, the more likely a buyer is to get it.
For example, Borenius said up to 80 percent of the V12-powered Mercedes S600 buyers have been adding the optional Keyless Go system. But when other, lower-priced models of S-Class are added in, the percentage drops to about 25 percent.
The S600 starts around $125,000, while the starting price for a base S-Class is around $75,000.
Likely to Go Beyond Luxury Models
Officials expect the technology to spread to lower-priced cars.
"I personally think it's a natural evolution of keyless entry and we'll see more market penetration," Dutter said. "We'll see the same kind of proliferation that we saw in the early '90s when keyless entry [began to spread to lots of cars]."
Some Important Tips
But there is a learning curve. For example, this writer found herself exiting the RL and Infiniti's M cars after shifting into Park, only to discover the engine was still running. With no key to turn and remove from the ignition and put in my hand, I had to retrain myself to stop stepping out of the car until I pressed the engine button on the dashboard.
Valet parking is another situation that can require retraining, since a valet driver will have no way to start the vehicle once it's parked unless he or she has a fob, too. Yet many car owners are likely to exit their cars and leave with their fobs in their pocket or purse. The engines remain on and the valets can drive the cars away for parking. But once the vehicles are turned off, the valets will have no way of restarting them without the fobs.
"What we have seen is when people see it, at first, there's a little hurdle," Holman said. "It may take a couple weeks or a month [to adjust]."
Smart key systems don't require regular maintenance, and the fob batteries, which are generally akin to those used for watches, should last up to three years, officials said.
Still, replacing a Keyless Go fob will cost more than an old-fashioned key would because the fob includes technology, Borenius said. Officials at Mercedes and Toyota said the price for replacement fobs could be $200-plus.
06-06-2005, 03:36 PM
#30
Stop citing magazines and what not, I want to hear more on what you think 
Personally, I haven't had any issues with Keyless go, and it's a bit more then turning the key.
What's up with power locks, you can always lean over and unlock the car yourself.
What's up with distronic cruise control, you can always slow down your self.
The list can go on and on, but these options will soon become standard features on newer models It's a win win situation. Today it is $1000, tomorrow it will be part of the package. Next week it'll be a standard feature :p
Personally, I haven't had any issues with Keyless go, and it's a bit more then turning the key.
What's up with power locks, you can always lean over and unlock the car yourself.
What's up with distronic cruise control, you can always slow down your self.
The list can go on and on, but these options will soon become standard features on newer models
It's a win win situation. Today it is $1000, tomorrow it will be part of the package. Next week it'll be a standard feature :p
06-06-2005, 04:41 PM
#31
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No longer car shopping...
Originally Posted by sha23
I also have to agree that I"ll take a fully loaded car over a stripped cls55. I know that the 55 is an incredible car but to drive a non option car is kind of like having sex with a condom on. the pleasure in not a 100%
Maybe he meant 96K not 86K
Maybe he meant 96K not 86K
Last edited by ndabunka; 06-06-2005 at 04:46 PM.
06-06-2005, 04:56 PM
#32
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No longer car shopping...
Originally Posted by swisstrader
"In my case, I paid $76K vs about $100K that is good $24K+ different, it is not so close in my opinion."
I don't think you've shopped the car around enough...I was one of the first to own the car, and yes paid a premium, but only paid about $86K or so...for the $10K difference, AMG option is a no brainer based on both resale and "fun factor".
I don't think you've shopped the car around enough...I was one of the first to own the car, and yes paid a premium, but only paid about $86K or so...for the $10K difference, AMG option is a no brainer based on both resale and "fun factor".
Last edited by ndabunka; 06-06-2005 at 08:47 PM.
