GTR Nurburgring
12-08-2016, 04:58 PM
#26
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
amg
That list is factory times. You have to compare to Sport Auto times. True independent testing. In the last issue of Sport Auto they did a 7:21 in the new 488. AMG GTR was 10 seconds faster. This car is very impressive. Much quicker than any 911 released so far. They set a 7:28 with 991 GT3 RS. That is a huge gap, on the same rubber and with same driver.
12-08-2016, 05:52 PM
#27
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
I still don't understand why AMG 17GT still brings up Porsche cars in all his posts lately? Yes, it is a crazy fast time done by the GTR, It is an awesome car, but lets compare Mercedes flagship model(AMG GTR) vs Porsche flagship model(918), the best they both have to offer. The 918 is sub 7 seconds at the Ring-Porsche wins that,, GTS compares to a GT3RS-Porsche wins that, and the Base AMG GT compares to the GT3- Porsche wins that, compare apples to apples and the results favor Porsche.
Hybrid 918 at $ 900k no comparo.
12-08-2016, 06:19 PM
#28
MBWorld Fanatic!
That list is factory times. You have to compare to Sport Auto times. True independent testing. In the last issue of Sport Auto they did a 7:21 in the new 488. AMG GTR was 10 seconds faster. This car is very impressive. Much quicker than any 911 released so far. They set a 7:28 with 991 GT3 RS. That is a huge gap, on the same rubber and with same driver.
12-08-2016, 06:33 PM
#29
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: THE Orange County, California
Posts: 11,921
Received 796 Likes
on
495 Posts
2020 Audi R8 V10, 2016 AMG GTS, 2018 E63S Edition 1, 2018 Porsche GTS Cab, 2012 C63 BS
True independent times???? Who are you kidding, the car has not even been released yet so there is nothing "independent" about this test. That is an AMG test mule, who know what it's got done to it. Was it run on OEM rubber or slicks or race tire? Don't get me wrong that is an amazing lap time and it has my full attention but I'm not biting until I see more info and data.
somebody posted this on a another forum- dialogue with Sport Auto so it appears the tires were not normal:
Ok, here are what SA said via google translate:
- This is the fastest standard vehicle that SA has tested since they started testing in 1997.
- SA did note that they had used tire warmer, since it was only 4C that day so they had to make sure the tire isn't too cold.
- the GT R is equipped with a special AMG-Track tire approved for road use. These Cup 2 tire was specially developed for the GT R and can be ordered through MB AMG department.
- Traction control was used.
- GT R has 585HP, 75 more than GT S, thanks to increased load pressure. It is far less scary than the 488 GTB they had just tested, in the GT R you feel good at using full throttle, it is well powered, not over-powered.
- Compared to the GT S, the GT R has significantly higher mechanical grip due to chassis modifications and newly developed sports tires. Especially in the slower mountain passages behind Metzgesfeld to Wehrseifen, but also from Home Acht to the Brno, the rear axle sticks on the ideal line. No unwanted lateral steps, GT R gives more confidence in the border area than any other sports car before.
- On fast sections one can also trust the GT R, on the Klostertal the GT R ran 179km/h, the 918 did 174km/h, Gumpert Apollo 174km/h, and the 488 GTB 173km/h.
- The optional ceramic brake works extremely well, it was unbelievable how late you can brake with the GT R.
- Yes, SA is fully aware of Porsche was able to ran the 918 6:57 with Marc Lieb at the helm, but as far as SA's concerned, the GT R is the fastest car they have ever tested. And also the tester could not believe the GT R is 25 seconds faster than the GT S.
- This is the fastest standard vehicle that SA has tested since they started testing in 1997.
- SA did note that they had used tire warmer, since it was only 4C that day so they had to make sure the tire isn't too cold.
- the GT R is equipped with a special AMG-Track tire approved for road use. These Cup 2 tire was specially developed for the GT R and can be ordered through MB AMG department.
- Traction control was used.
- GT R has 585HP, 75 more than GT S, thanks to increased load pressure. It is far less scary than the 488 GTB they had just tested, in the GT R you feel good at using full throttle, it is well powered, not over-powered.
- Compared to the GT S, the GT R has significantly higher mechanical grip due to chassis modifications and newly developed sports tires. Especially in the slower mountain passages behind Metzgesfeld to Wehrseifen, but also from Home Acht to the Brno, the rear axle sticks on the ideal line. No unwanted lateral steps, GT R gives more confidence in the border area than any other sports car before.
- On fast sections one can also trust the GT R, on the Klostertal the GT R ran 179km/h, the 918 did 174km/h, Gumpert Apollo 174km/h, and the 488 GTB 173km/h.
- The optional ceramic brake works extremely well, it was unbelievable how late you can brake with the GT R.
- Yes, SA is fully aware of Porsche was able to ran the 918 6:57 with Marc Lieb at the helm, but as far as SA's concerned, the GT R is the fastest car they have ever tested. And also the tester could not believe the GT R is 25 seconds faster than the GT S.
12-08-2016, 06:42 PM
#30
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
amg
True independent times???? Who are you kidding, the car has not even been released yet so there is nothing "independent" about this test. That is an AMG test mule, who know what it's got done to it. Was it run on OEM rubber or slicks or race tire? Don't get me wrong that is an amazing lap time and it has my full attention but I'm not biting until I see more info and data.
The new issue will be out soon, with full results and pertinent data(track temps, ambient temps, track conditons, etc...). Standard cars are always on stock rubber. This video is just the teaser to the full test.
Last edited by blipit; 12-08-2016 at 06:45 PM.
12-08-2016, 06:52 PM
#31
MBWorld Fanatic!
I have read conflicting info. I just read on Motorthority they were the stock pilots but then I read another source that stated they were not OEM tires....either way it's blistering fast.
12-08-2016, 06:53 PM
#32
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: THE Orange County, California
Posts: 11,921
Received 796 Likes
on
495 Posts
2020 Audi R8 V10, 2016 AMG GTS, 2018 E63S Edition 1, 2018 Porsche GTS Cab, 2012 C63 BS
Yep, that's the bottomline- its f'in fast and even though we can't, as drivers, replicate those times I have no doubt I will be able to go faster in it than in my boring normal GTS
Last edited by Vic55; 12-08-2016 at 06:59 PM.
12-08-2016, 07:13 PM
#33
Super Moderator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Land of 10,000 lakes
Posts: 10,125
Received 3,339 Likes
on
2,063 Posts
AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
It's not taking any credit away from Porsche when an AMG is fast as well or faster on a track.
It does state that AMG is serious in building really capable fast sports cars. That is good news.
After all, it is a third party test driver from a respected source. While every extra ordinary run is subjected to criticism (including the sub 7 sec one from the 918) the feedback from the driver was the interesting to me; the stated that the car was the most stable at the limit. Half the fun of the video was watching the acceleration/ braking speeds. Impressive for any brand car and this is no lightweight.
It does state that AMG is serious in building really capable fast sports cars. That is good news.
After all, it is a third party test driver from a respected source. While every extra ordinary run is subjected to criticism (including the sub 7 sec one from the 918) the feedback from the driver was the interesting to me; the stated that the car was the most stable at the limit. Half the fun of the video was watching the acceleration/ braking speeds. Impressive for any brand car and this is no lightweight.
12-08-2016, 07:26 PM
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Naples FL
Posts: 2,925
Received 167 Likes
on
133 Posts
2021 Porsche TTS
i knew the excuses would come flying and they are funny to read:
-"There is no official GT3RS time and the 10 second difference is not with a 991" Yes there is and it is and is actually 17 secs
-"GT-S should compare to GT3RS". No, GT-S compares to 911 GTS.
-"GT should compare to GT3". No, GT compares to 911 or 911S.
-"On the street, my 911TT beats your GTR". sure but the correct P car to compare the GT-R is GT3 or GT3RS since they are track cars. There is no true competition from AMG for the TT. Porsche wins there.
-"I am a better driver than you so I still win against whatever AMG you own with my P car". so childish and pointless.
-"You should compare flagship to flagship and 918 wins" Comparing a 1 million supercar versus 180K track car? LMFAO.
-"AMG brand is worthless now cause it's diluted" completely off topic.
-"Porsche has more cars on top 100 than AMG" - Duh, AMG never focused on this segment and the GT is the first one.
I don't think I drink the GT coolaid. Respect should be given with what AMG did with this platform and they obviously are competing well with Porsche.
I am happy to acknowledge the superiority of the 911TT(S) for an everyday driver for less than $225K although this is being challenged by the 570S.
-"There is no official GT3RS time and the 10 second difference is not with a 991" Yes there is and it is and is actually 17 secs
-"GT-S should compare to GT3RS". No, GT-S compares to 911 GTS.
-"GT should compare to GT3". No, GT compares to 911 or 911S.
-"On the street, my 911TT beats your GTR". sure but the correct P car to compare the GT-R is GT3 or GT3RS since they are track cars. There is no true competition from AMG for the TT. Porsche wins there.
-"I am a better driver than you so I still win against whatever AMG you own with my P car". so childish and pointless.
-"You should compare flagship to flagship and 918 wins" Comparing a 1 million supercar versus 180K track car? LMFAO.
-"AMG brand is worthless now cause it's diluted" completely off topic.
-"Porsche has more cars on top 100 than AMG" - Duh, AMG never focused on this segment and the GT is the first one.
I don't think I drink the GT coolaid. Respect should be given with what AMG did with this platform and they obviously are competing well with Porsche.
I am happy to acknowledge the superiority of the 911TT(S) for an everyday driver for less than $225K although this is being challenged by the 570S.
12-08-2016, 07:49 PM
#35
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
We will sort this out.
If PSC 2 tires can be bought OEM than they are OEM.
I've said this before that I believed the active aero and traction control would be the difference and it seems so.
The comment about creating a linear track line and " no unwanted lateral steps" was profound to me as that track wants to flip you into hell. Top speed was amazing on straights as well.
If PSC 2 tires can be bought OEM than they are OEM.
I've said this before that I believed the active aero and traction control would be the difference and it seems so.
The comment about creating a linear track line and " no unwanted lateral steps" was profound to me as that track wants to flip you into hell. Top speed was amazing on straights as well.
Last edited by AMG 17GT; 12-08-2016 at 08:08 PM.
12-08-2016, 08:42 PM
#36
MBWorld Fanatic!
We will sort this out.
If PSC 2 tires can be bought OEM than they are OEM.
I've said this before that I believed the active aero and traction control would be the difference and it seems so.
The comment about creating a linear track line and " no unwanted lateral steps" was profound to me as that track wants to flip you into hell. Top speed was amazing on straights as well.
If PSC 2 tires can be bought OEM than they are OEM.
I've said this before that I believed the active aero and traction control would be the difference and it seems so.
The comment about creating a linear track line and " no unwanted lateral steps" was profound to me as that track wants to flip you into hell. Top speed was amazing on straights as well.
Ok, here are what SA said via google translate:
- This is the fastest standard vehicle that SA has tested since they started testing in 1997.
- SA did note that they had used tire warmer, since it was only 4C that day so they had to make sure the tire isn't too cold.
- the GT R is equipped with a special AMG-Track tire approved for road use. These Cup 2 tire was specially developed for the GT R and can be ordered through MB AMG department.
- Traction control was used.
- GT R has 585HP, 75 more than GT S, thanks to increased load pressure. It is far less scary than the 488 GTB they had just tested, in the GT R you feel good at using full throttle, it is well powered, not over-powered.
- Compared to the GT S, the GT R has significantly higher mechanical grip due to chassis modifications and newly developed sports tires. Especially in the slower mountain passages behind Metzgesfeld to Wehrseifen, but also from Home Acht to the Brno, the rear axle sticks on the ideal line. No unwanted lateral steps, GT R gives more confidence in the border area than any other sports car before.
- On fast sections one can also trust the GT R, on the Klostertal the GT R ran 179km/h, the 918 did 174km/h, Gumpert Apollo 174km/h, and the 488 GTB 173km/h.
- The optional ceramic brake works extremely well, it was unbelievable how late you can brake with the GT R.
- Yes, SA is fully aware of Porsche was able to ran the 918 6:57 with Marc Lieb at the helm, but as far as SA's concerned, the GT R is the fastest car they have ever tested. And also the tester could not believe the GT R is 25 seconds faster than the GT S.
JRCART, VIC and AMG 17 GT;
I think these are the Pilot 2 tires the GT, GTS and now the GTR run. Of course the rears are 1" wider.
12-09-2016, 02:59 AM
#37
Senior Member
Quoted from SportAuto:
Again: No slicks or cutted slick-tyres were used for the lap time. AMG will offer two different versions of the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 for the AMG GT R. A normal one, like it is available for the GT S, and a special one for track driving with a more sticky compound. BUT: Both versions of Cup 2 for the AMG GT R are fully street legal! You can compare the sticky Cup 2 for AMG GT R with the Cup 2 for the Corvette Z06. The grip level feels pretty similar!
Again: No slicks or cutted slick-tyres were used for the lap time. AMG will offer two different versions of the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 for the AMG GT R. A normal one, like it is available for the GT S, and a special one for track driving with a more sticky compound. BUT: Both versions of Cup 2 for the AMG GT R are fully street legal! You can compare the sticky Cup 2 for AMG GT R with the Cup 2 for the Corvette Z06. The grip level feels pretty similar!
12-09-2016, 07:03 AM
#38
Vic's Translated document
Ok, here are what SA said via google translate:
- This is the fastest standard vehicle that SA has tested since they started testing in 1997.
- SA did note that they had used tire warmer, since it was only 4C that day so they had to make sure the tire isn't too cold.
- the GT R is equipped with a special AMG-Track tire approved for road use. These Cup 2 tire was specially developed for the GT R and can be ordered through MB AMG department.
- Traction control was used.
- GT R has 585HP, 75 more than GT S, thanks to increased load pressure. It is far less scary than the 488 GTB they had just tested, in the GT R you feel good at using full throttle, it is well powered, not over-powered.
- Compared to the GT S, the GT R has significantly higher mechanical grip due to chassis modifications and newly developed sports tires. Especially in the slower mountain passages behind Metzgesfeld to Wehrseifen, but also from Home Acht to the Brno, the rear axle sticks on the ideal line. No unwanted lateral steps, GT R gives more confidence in the border area than any other sports car before.
- On fast sections one can also trust the GT R, on the Klostertal the GT R ran 179km/h, the 918 did 174km/h, Gumpert Apollo 174km/h, and the 488 GTB 173km/h.
- The optional ceramic brake works extremely well, it was unbelievable how late you can brake with the GT R.
- Yes, SA is fully aware of Porsche was able to ran the 918 6:57 with Marc Lieb at the helm, but as far as SA's concerned, the GT R is the fastest car they have ever tested. And also the tester could not believe the GT R is 25 seconds faster than the GT S.
JRCART, VIC and AMG 17 GT;
I think these are the Pilot 2 tires the GT, GTS and now the GTR run. Of course the rears are 1" wider.
Ok, here are what SA said via google translate:
- This is the fastest standard vehicle that SA has tested since they started testing in 1997.
- SA did note that they had used tire warmer, since it was only 4C that day so they had to make sure the tire isn't too cold.
- the GT R is equipped with a special AMG-Track tire approved for road use. These Cup 2 tire was specially developed for the GT R and can be ordered through MB AMG department.
- Traction control was used.
- GT R has 585HP, 75 more than GT S, thanks to increased load pressure. It is far less scary than the 488 GTB they had just tested, in the GT R you feel good at using full throttle, it is well powered, not over-powered.
- Compared to the GT S, the GT R has significantly higher mechanical grip due to chassis modifications and newly developed sports tires. Especially in the slower mountain passages behind Metzgesfeld to Wehrseifen, but also from Home Acht to the Brno, the rear axle sticks on the ideal line. No unwanted lateral steps, GT R gives more confidence in the border area than any other sports car before.
- On fast sections one can also trust the GT R, on the Klostertal the GT R ran 179km/h, the 918 did 174km/h, Gumpert Apollo 174km/h, and the 488 GTB 173km/h.
- The optional ceramic brake works extremely well, it was unbelievable how late you can brake with the GT R.
- Yes, SA is fully aware of Porsche was able to ran the 918 6:57 with Marc Lieb at the helm, but as far as SA's concerned, the GT R is the fastest car they have ever tested. And also the tester could not believe the GT R is 25 seconds faster than the GT S.
JRCART, VIC and AMG 17 GT;
I think these are the Pilot 2 tires the GT, GTS and now the GTR run. Of course the rears are 1" wider.
12-09-2016, 08:53 AM
#39
MBWorld Fanatic!
TD33
Lets hope it shows up in mid to late March as the "whisperers" think.
Lets hope it shows up in mid to late March as the "whisperers" think.
Last edited by JSwan724; 12-09-2016 at 02:41 PM.
12-09-2016, 02:12 PM
#40
12-09-2016, 02:43 PM
#41
MBWorld Fanatic!
Then you'll have to unload ALL of your Porsches to pay for it. 
You can only have so many toys in the toy box fund.
You can only have so many toys in the toy box fund.
12-09-2016, 02:57 PM
#42
12-09-2016, 03:02 PM
#43
Super Member
Hey, I tried, it sounded good. Have to give me an A for effort?? lol.
12-09-2016, 04:49 PM
#44
MBWorld Fanatic!
FWIW: AMG just posted on the PL that the tires were Michelin Pilot Sport 2's.
I have asked them to clarify which ones....stock or the sticky.
I'll update the post when they reply
I have asked them to clarify which ones....stock or the sticky.
I'll update the post when they reply
Last edited by JSwan724; 12-09-2016 at 08:41 PM.
12-09-2016, 06:00 PM
#45
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
2016 AMG GTS, 2015 GLA45 AMG
i knew the excuses would come flying and they are funny to read:
-"There is no official GT3RS time and the 10 second difference is not with a 991" Yes there is and it is and is actually 17 secs
-"GT-S should compare to GT3RS". No, GT-S compares to 911 GTS.
-"GT should compare to GT3". No, GT compares to 911 or 911S.
-"On the street, my 911TT beats your GTR". sure but the correct P car to compare the GT-R is GT3 or GT3RS since they are track cars. There is no true competition from AMG for the TT. Porsche wins there.
-"I am a better driver than you so I still win against whatever AMG you own with my P car". so childish and pointless.
-"You should compare flagship to flagship and 918 wins" Comparing a 1 million supercar versus 180K track car? LMFAO.
-"AMG brand is worthless now cause it's diluted" completely off topic.
-"Porsche has more cars on top 100 than AMG" - Duh, AMG never focused on this segment and the GT is the first one.
I don't think I drink the GT coolaid. Respect should be given with what AMG did with this platform and they obviously are competing well with Porsche.
I am happy to acknowledge the superiority of the 911TT(S) for an everyday driver for less than $225K although this is being challenged by the 570S.
-"There is no official GT3RS time and the 10 second difference is not with a 991" Yes there is and it is and is actually 17 secs
-"GT-S should compare to GT3RS". No, GT-S compares to 911 GTS.
-"GT should compare to GT3". No, GT compares to 911 or 911S.
-"On the street, my 911TT beats your GTR". sure but the correct P car to compare the GT-R is GT3 or GT3RS since they are track cars. There is no true competition from AMG for the TT. Porsche wins there.
-"I am a better driver than you so I still win against whatever AMG you own with my P car". so childish and pointless.
-"You should compare flagship to flagship and 918 wins" Comparing a 1 million supercar versus 180K track car? LMFAO.
-"AMG brand is worthless now cause it's diluted" completely off topic.
-"Porsche has more cars on top 100 than AMG" - Duh, AMG never focused on this segment and the GT is the first one.
I don't think I drink the GT coolaid. Respect should be given with what AMG did with this platform and they obviously are competing well with Porsche.
I am happy to acknowledge the superiority of the 911TT(S) for an everyday driver for less than $225K although this is being challenged by the 570S.
12-11-2016, 08:33 PM
#48
MBWorld Fanatic!
FWIW: My 2016 GTS E1 has Michelin Sport tires and the PL head guy posted a response to mine that said the GTR is running Michelin Super Sport 2 Cup tires that can be bought over the counter at your local MB dealer.
Last edited by JSwan724; 12-12-2016 at 07:00 PM.
12-12-2016, 06:01 PM
#49
Banned
I smell a GT-R in JRcart's future after losing this bet.
PS. I'm only here for entertainment purposes.
12-13-2016, 01:53 AM
#50
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
amg
The 991.2 GT2 RS however could very well be quicker, depending how far Porsche go with the car.
SportAuto has been doing these supertests for almost 20 years. They will mostly likely run both .2 Porsches when they become available.
Last edited by blipit; 12-13-2016 at 01:55 AM.
