Anyone considered the Vantage vs GTS
#26
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Joined: Mar 2017
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From: Newport Beach, CA
2021 Porsche 911 Turbo S Cpe (992); 2023 Taycan GTS sedan
Surfah - here are some thoughts regarding your comments.
1. Having driven three Vantages (two as loaners, if that says anything like why do I keep needing service loaners), I think it qualifies as a sports car with some reservations - with one of the upscale leather interiors including detailing on the headliner, it feels more GT; although it feels responsive, it could use 20-50 more HP and drop a few pounds although at 3,650 lb it's not too different from the AMG GT cars. Car & Driver recently tested the Vantage (#3), a GT C Coupe (#2) and a 911 GT3 (#1) - which is reasonable. I see #3 as a sports car leaning toward GT; #2 is a sports car approaching track car like the 911 GTS, and #1 is track-oriented but, in my case, a terrific daily driver.
2. Here are some details for a lease agreement on a $160K Vantage ($1,248/mo, 36 months) Security deposit waived. Total due at signing of $5,000 which includes first payment, licensing cost, registration fees and taxes (based on Orange County, CA rates). Lessee must present dealer with a current lease statement for the lease of another vehicle with at least $7,500 in monthly lease payments remaining. Lease includes 7,500 total miles, excess miles at $1.00 per mile. Residency restrictions apply.
OK, I'm not giving away trade secrets here, this was part of an email to a mailing list. They didn't want buyers who had one or two months left on a lease; they wanted to grab buyers early before they started shopping. Also, looks as if there are some residency restrictions - CA only, US only?
3. In my response to grizzly111 earlier today, I mentioned my experience with the ZF 8-sp. It's three levels are programmed as one would expect in a GT car from cruising up to very responsive. And as I usually shift manually, I can stay on top of the rev band as needed. It's true that the ZF isn't PDK. Believe it or not, in Track mode on the Vantage, the downshifts felt a lot like the ones in a 991.2 GT3 RS that I drove about 10 days ago. Both pretty violent in a very good way under hard braking. The ZF in comfort mode in the DB11 is "lazy" but that's probably fine for some poseurs and helps the car achieve some reasonable mileage ratings. (I got 25.2 mpg in the range of 65-80 at steady-state probably because the engine can shut off 6 cylinders in rotation so all stay hot at operating temp.)
4. My mentioning the 992 Carrera 2S is in regard to my personal shopping list. With the GT3 on one side of the garage, it would make sense to pair it with a more daily driver-oriented sports car, hence the Carrera 2S or GT C. When I had my '16 GT S and a '15 911 Turbo S it was one of the few times I could drive one car and not wish I was in the other - both had individual aspects of performance and excitement. The non-GT3 car will have to be auto for my wife's sake, and even though I love stick-shifting, heel/towing, etc., I'm loving PDK as well and shifting up/down a lot more. Also, I can't afford to undermine my wife's support for big car payments.
5. I saw the new 911s at the LA auto show. I agree. I'm not wild about the rear end bulge but I'm OK with the light bar and 3D letters. Also, my initial impression was that the rear wheels (larger than the fronts) are too big. But I can be sold on Porsche performance, value (cf. Vantage) and build quality. The new 2S is almost as fast as my GT3! Early road tests are indicating that Porsche didn't mess it up.
Lucky for us, these and others are all good cars and we have an opportunity to test drive and own whatever appeals to us at that moment. Drive On!
1. Having driven three Vantages (two as loaners, if that says anything like why do I keep needing service loaners), I think it qualifies as a sports car with some reservations - with one of the upscale leather interiors including detailing on the headliner, it feels more GT; although it feels responsive, it could use 20-50 more HP and drop a few pounds although at 3,650 lb it's not too different from the AMG GT cars. Car & Driver recently tested the Vantage (#3), a GT C Coupe (#2) and a 911 GT3 (#1) - which is reasonable. I see #3 as a sports car leaning toward GT; #2 is a sports car approaching track car like the 911 GTS, and #1 is track-oriented but, in my case, a terrific daily driver.
2. Here are some details for a lease agreement on a $160K Vantage ($1,248/mo, 36 months) Security deposit waived. Total due at signing of $5,000 which includes first payment, licensing cost, registration fees and taxes (based on Orange County, CA rates). Lessee must present dealer with a current lease statement for the lease of another vehicle with at least $7,500 in monthly lease payments remaining. Lease includes 7,500 total miles, excess miles at $1.00 per mile. Residency restrictions apply.
OK, I'm not giving away trade secrets here, this was part of an email to a mailing list. They didn't want buyers who had one or two months left on a lease; they wanted to grab buyers early before they started shopping. Also, looks as if there are some residency restrictions - CA only, US only?
3. In my response to grizzly111 earlier today, I mentioned my experience with the ZF 8-sp. It's three levels are programmed as one would expect in a GT car from cruising up to very responsive. And as I usually shift manually, I can stay on top of the rev band as needed. It's true that the ZF isn't PDK. Believe it or not, in Track mode on the Vantage, the downshifts felt a lot like the ones in a 991.2 GT3 RS that I drove about 10 days ago. Both pretty violent in a very good way under hard braking. The ZF in comfort mode in the DB11 is "lazy" but that's probably fine for some poseurs and helps the car achieve some reasonable mileage ratings. (I got 25.2 mpg in the range of 65-80 at steady-state probably because the engine can shut off 6 cylinders in rotation so all stay hot at operating temp.)
4. My mentioning the 992 Carrera 2S is in regard to my personal shopping list. With the GT3 on one side of the garage, it would make sense to pair it with a more daily driver-oriented sports car, hence the Carrera 2S or GT C. When I had my '16 GT S and a '15 911 Turbo S it was one of the few times I could drive one car and not wish I was in the other - both had individual aspects of performance and excitement. The non-GT3 car will have to be auto for my wife's sake, and even though I love stick-shifting, heel/towing, etc., I'm loving PDK as well and shifting up/down a lot more. Also, I can't afford to undermine my wife's support for big car payments.
5. I saw the new 911s at the LA auto show. I agree. I'm not wild about the rear end bulge but I'm OK with the light bar and 3D letters. Also, my initial impression was that the rear wheels (larger than the fronts) are too big. But I can be sold on Porsche performance, value (cf. Vantage) and build quality. The new 2S is almost as fast as my GT3! Early road tests are indicating that Porsche didn't mess it up.
Lucky for us, these and others are all good cars and we have an opportunity to test drive and own whatever appeals to us at that moment. Drive On!
#27
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Joined: Jun 2017
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2018 AMG GTS, 2015 911 GT3, 2017 E300, 2014 X3 35i
AttheGlen
1.
Never drove a Vantage so I will defer to your opinion. We both own GT3's so come from a common frame of reference.
2.
Thanks for the details we were all waiting for. I know RR and Bentley do these 2500/year type leases to attract new buyers, guess AM is following suit.
3.
Drove the ZF with Quickshift in a Continental GT, lazy is a good description.
4.
How about the 911T (not touring)? Wife needs PDK?
5. I
You saw it in the flesh, I'll revisit my opinion but so far the photos haven't been impressive IMH
1.
Never drove a Vantage so I will defer to your opinion. We both own GT3's so come from a common frame of reference.
2.
Thanks for the details we were all waiting for. I know RR and Bentley do these 2500/year type leases to attract new buyers, guess AM is following suit.
3.
Drove the ZF with Quickshift in a Continental GT, lazy is a good description.
4.
How about the 911T (not touring)? Wife needs PDK?
5. I
You saw it in the flesh, I'll revisit my opinion but so far the photos haven't been impressive IMH
#28
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Joined: Mar 2017
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From: Newport Beach, CA
2021 Porsche 911 Turbo S Cpe (992); 2023 Taycan GTS sedan
Thanks, Surfah. I, too, am trying to get back to an AMG/911 garage. Wish my dealer was not so greedy - they're turning down $100K plus buyers' premiums above MSRP on the GT R PRO! I'm thinking a GT C coupe would be a good sweet spot for me and I'll see what happens when the 2020 order banks open.
Yes, my wife (whose Mom and sisters can drive stick) likes automatic. She's worried about stalling and when I taught her 20 years ago on a 996 911, she did OK but it was before "hill hold" and she pictured herself coasting into the car behind her. You're right, a 991T would be a good alternative as the other car to the GT3 if PDK weren't needed. BTW, Chris Harris (Top Gear) and "Mr. JWW" have done good videos of the new 911. Cheers!
Yes, my wife (whose Mom and sisters can drive stick) likes automatic. She's worried about stalling and when I taught her 20 years ago on a 996 911, she did OK but it was before "hill hold" and she pictured herself coasting into the car behind her. You're right, a 991T would be a good alternative as the other car to the GT3 if PDK weren't needed. BTW, Chris Harris (Top Gear) and "Mr. JWW" have done good videos of the new 911. Cheers!
#29
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From: Santa Monica Mountains
2020 GTA; 2022 Audi e-tron GT, 2022 Ford F-150; 1926 Rolls-Royce Springfield 40/50 Playboy roadster
#30
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2023 Urus Performante - 2021 Ferrari Roma - 2017 Ferrari 488 GTB - 2022 GLE 63 S Coupe
Lol. I remember once reading a reference to the front of the GTR (ghm) and how it reminded them of an angry Pokemon. I thought that was funny. Another good one was when a blogger described the color as looking like a: "crushed grasshopper metallic."
#31
Bish
#33
Bish
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benzbell (02-07-2019)
#34
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That's super. Sounds like they did everything except some yard-work when they did the delivery/pick up - lol.
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thebishman (02-07-2019)
#35
#36
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From: Land of 10,000 lakes
AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Residual
2yr/5k is 67%
2yr/7.5k is 67%
3yr/5k is 59%
3yr/7.5k is 57%
2yr MF is .00144 (3.45%)
3yr MF is .000567 (1.36%)
They are offsetting a higher residual with a higher MF on the 2 year lease. Something I haven't seen before but all rates are quite aggressive.
#37
7500 total miles or per year??? It’s a shell game, they have you looking at the rate and not the huge principal.
if it’s 7500/3 years than they are asking you to pay for almost half the car for three years stored in your nice indoor garage IMO.
if it’s 7500/3 years than they are asking you to pay for almost half the car for three years stored in your nice indoor garage IMO.
Last edited by AMG 17GT; 02-09-2019 at 03:54 PM.
#38
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From: Land of 10,000 lakes
AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Residual
2yr/5k per yr is 67%
2yr/7.5k per yr is 67%
3yr/5k per yr is 59%
3yr/7.5k per yr is 57%
2yr MF is .00144 (3.45%)
3yr MF is .000567 (1.36%)
But as before, I don't get some of your comments. Shell game? A lease like a purchase is a very straight forward scenario. Each one has benefits/disadvantages. We lease because we don't keep cars longer than 2 years or so. We also put typically 7500-10000 miles on a car so this fits right in.
At a glance, leasing a Mercedes, AMG or not has inferior rates. There are other factors to consider of course (the actual deal of the car, overage per mile costs etc.) but in general it looks decent.
This is not a car anyone should lease as a primary car. Due to miles this would only be a 3rd/4th car, not unlike AMG GT's
#40
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We are in the market for a new roadster and thinking AMG GTC. Love the coupe but need a top-down car. Timing-wise it'll be a MY19 or 20.
At the same time I am being teased with very low-priced lease deals on 2019 AM Vantages and wonder if it's worth as an additional weekend car. While I agree that the cars front grill looks a bit more unfinished than previous models, the car looks incredible in the flesh with its small overhangs. Interior is quite nice, has the AMG 4.0 liter engine, MB electronics and with an average price of $180k is hundreds less a month than a bare-bone AMG GT coupe.
People are split on the tranny but even if it doesn't match the Getrag you can never go wrong on a ZF 8speed, even with less than optimal software programming,
What are your thoughts?
At the same time I am being teased with very low-priced lease deals on 2019 AM Vantages and wonder if it's worth as an additional weekend car. While I agree that the cars front grill looks a bit more unfinished than previous models, the car looks incredible in the flesh with its small overhangs. Interior is quite nice, has the AMG 4.0 liter engine, MB electronics and with an average price of $180k is hundreds less a month than a bare-bone AMG GT coupe.
People are split on the tranny but even if it doesn't match the Getrag you can never go wrong on a ZF 8speed, even with less than optimal software programming,
What are your thoughts?
#41
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From: Land of 10,000 lakes
AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Only way I would consider owning an AM or any exotic brand for that matter. Is if I lived in close proximity to a dealer - not saying you don't. AM doesn't have a large dealer network. Another factor in considering a long road trip. I'm in no way saying it's not a good car. Things break on all cars. Before we got an MB dealer where I live. Closest one was 120 miles away. Wasn't fun when my SL63 had to get towed there when the ABC went out. Not to mention - maintenance. I only wanted the dealer to do it. So I had to plan in advance to drive down there and hang out. Basically, it was an entire day to accomplish that when all was said and done.
#42
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Somewhat reminded me of the time when you could lease a new BMW i3 for $112 a month...
#44
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
#45
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That's crazy. Lease equates to 48 miles per week. For some, that's a dinner/movie night out and a trip to the grocery store. Not worth it to me.
#46
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2020 GTA; 2022 Audi e-tron GT, 2022 Ford F-150; 1926 Rolls-Royce Springfield 40/50 Playboy roadster
$7.22 a mile, not including tax and license (or insurance) but taking into account the 3 "free" months. Very pricey.
#47
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Please recognize that the lease I am referring to is a 22500 mile lease (7500 a year).
Something that can be compared directly to a Mercedes lease.
The 2500 miles one is idiotic but identical to countless leases available for Rolls Royce, Bentley, McLaren, etc.
Something that can be compared directly to a Mercedes lease.
The 2500 miles one is idiotic but identical to countless leases available for Rolls Royce, Bentley, McLaren, etc.
#48
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From: Newport Beach, CA
2021 Porsche 911 Turbo S Cpe (992); 2023 Taycan GTS sedan
Dealer Proximity Matters
So true. We live in Minneapolis and the closest McLaren/Ferrari dealers are in Chicago, some 400+ miles away. I won't get either for that simple reason. Aston Martin dealer is within 2 miles from our MB dealer and the car now features a fair amount of MB components and the same 4.0l M177 engine that is in many AMG models (albeit with different specs). So the engine could be serviced by MB during a road trip.
#50
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From: Newport Beach, CA
2021 Porsche 911 Turbo S Cpe (992); 2023 Taycan GTS sedan
The Newport Beach, CA dealer has 11 Vantages (up from 5 recently) each advertised with specific lease details (based on MSRP) otherwise same terms and for a specific VIN, so appears to be inventory-only to move units.