Weistech VS Renntech in 2020
05-23-2020, 04:23 PM
#26
Senior Member
These OBD-II HHT tunes are effecting mainly ignition timing and A/F mix. They do not change turbo boosts directly or any other mechanical part of the car (trans, suspensions, etc).
The amount of boost for GT/GTS will be different then GTC/GTR, but there is a boost and therefore consideration of the mechanical stress and safety need to be consider when dealing with the GT/GTS
05-23-2020, 04:35 PM
#27
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DriveAMG, You are right about the turbos and boost, GT/GTS has a different turbo size then the GTC/GTR. However, as I have stated "the engines are the same" (M178).
These OBD-II HHT tunes are effecting mainly ignition timing and A/F mix. They do not change turbo boosts directly or any other mechanical part of the car (trans, suspensions, etc).
The amount of boost for GT/GTS will be different then GTC/GTR, but there is a boost and therefore consideration of the mechanical stress and safety need to be consider when dealing with the GT/GTS
These OBD-II HHT tunes are effecting mainly ignition timing and A/F mix. They do not change turbo boosts directly or any other mechanical part of the car (trans, suspensions, etc).
The amount of boost for GT/GTS will be different then GTC/GTR, but there is a boost and therefore consideration of the mechanical stress and safety need to be consider when dealing with the GT/GTS
Last edited by Skilly; 05-23-2020 at 04:41 PM.
05-23-2020, 04:39 PM
#28
Senior Member
Skilly, I didn't claim that there is no advantage to the GTC/GTR. Of course there is. Relatively to their turbos, down pipes etc, the gain from OBD-II tune will be there, maybe in a different ratio then for GT/GTS. The only way to prove this is to do a dyno test, establishing a baseline with standard tune (factory) and then add the OBD-II tune, and see.
Renntech provided the dyno results I have posted earlier, for the GTC. They also have one for the GT, GTS and GTR on their website. Ill try to find it and share
Renntech provided the dyno results I have posted earlier, for the GTC. They also have one for the GT, GTS and GTR on their website. Ill try to find it and share
05-23-2020, 04:44 PM
#29
Senior Member
There is no issue with the ability of the M178 or the drivetrain of the car to handle more power. My comment was regarding the GT/GTS, NOT GTC or GTR. GT and GTS are built a bit different and are not geared for a race track and therefore adding significant power to it may be stability and safety issue. That is all.
05-23-2020, 05:02 PM
#31
Senior Member
gshoe777, I will be great if you can share the Dyno results between the base GTC and the RennTech HHT tune, to see if Renntech gain claim is within that range..
Looking forward to hear from you
Looking forward to hear from you
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gshoe777 (05-23-2020)
05-23-2020, 06:47 PM
#32
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Its interesting to see that its likely they are tuning to GT/GTS and GTC/GTR differently. When I was lurking around their website and linking into the tune specs nothing was surfacing - their links were bringing up a dead page. That said, since the M178 is the platform it would suggest that they are playing with the boost levels in the different turbo config for the GTC/GTR. That gets interesting for GTC/GTR owners and would at least on the surface to be different from DME or Weistec or the dyno results from the OE maps shown earlier in the thread.
Really looking forward to seeing results so I can vote with my dollars!
05-23-2020, 07:03 PM
#33
Senior Member
This is really helpful - thank you.
Its interesting to see that its likely they are tuning to GT/GTS and GTC/GTR differently. When I was lurking around their website and linking into the tune specs nothing was surfacing - their links were bringing up a dead page. That said, since the M178 is the platform it would suggest that they are playing with the boost levels in the different turbo config for the GTC/GTR. That gets interesting for GTC/GTR owners and would at least on the surface to be different from DME or Weistec or the dyno results from the OE maps shown earlier in the thread.
Really looking forward to seeing results so I can vote with my dollars!
Its interesting to see that its likely they are tuning to GT/GTS and GTC/GTR differently. When I was lurking around their website and linking into the tune specs nothing was surfacing - their links were bringing up a dead page. That said, since the M178 is the platform it would suggest that they are playing with the boost levels in the different turbo config for the GTC/GTR. That gets interesting for GTC/GTR owners and would at least on the surface to be different from DME or Weistec or the dyno results from the OE maps shown earlier in the thread.
Really looking forward to seeing results so I can vote with my dollars!
BTW, if you link to renntechmercedes.com you will find all the useful info. The renntech-store.com is their shopping site and missing a lot of info.
05-25-2020, 08:00 PM
#34
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'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
I've read through the old threads debating whether Weistech or Renntech is better for a tune. All I can find are older threads talking about either brand for tuning Benz models other than my own. 2019 GTC 1,400 miles. 93 Octane fuel.
From what I've read, both brands have had their ups and downs over the years concerning price, warranty, and power but Renntech's customer service hasn't ever been questioned yet (to my knowledge) (I also looked at EuroCharged, but no info on their site about a GTC tune)
The old threads say that in general, Weistech offers a more powerful tune but can have spotty customer service and potentially warranty issues compared to Renntech.
In communication with both brands via email their current prices are nearly identical.
But their advertised gains are not. Weistech's advertised gains are currently explained in a more straightforward way to understand because they are just giving you the projected gains without any discussion of factory recorded base numbers vs internally recorded base numbers. Renntech's advertised projected gains are harder to understand and supposedly based on starting figures higher than the factory. Renntech's current calculation is convoluted and not straight forward in my opinion.
Renntech is advertising total gains of +84HP/93TQ with no catless downpipes but their marketing materials make it harder to decipher what the true projected gains will be. The factory stock numbers are -25HP/19TQ less than what they have claimed to record as their stock baseline. I could easily believe that.
Weistech is advertising +60HP/122TQ with no catless downpipes.
If you add Renntech's projected gains or projected gains (less the difference from the factory numbers) you end up with a range for projected HP gains of 609HP-659HP, but Weistech still is the highest for TQ in any calculation.
I haven't been able to find any current threads with up to date info on which of these tuners will be best for me. Or any threads to sort out the Renntech calculation issue.
Has anyone had an experience recently with either brand for a GTC tune? If so, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
From what I've read, both brands have had their ups and downs over the years concerning price, warranty, and power but Renntech's customer service hasn't ever been questioned yet (to my knowledge) (I also looked at EuroCharged, but no info on their site about a GTC tune)
The old threads say that in general, Weistech offers a more powerful tune but can have spotty customer service and potentially warranty issues compared to Renntech.
In communication with both brands via email their current prices are nearly identical.
But their advertised gains are not. Weistech's advertised gains are currently explained in a more straightforward way to understand because they are just giving you the projected gains without any discussion of factory recorded base numbers vs internally recorded base numbers. Renntech's advertised projected gains are harder to understand and supposedly based on starting figures higher than the factory. Renntech's current calculation is convoluted and not straight forward in my opinion.
Renntech is advertising total gains of +84HP/93TQ with no catless downpipes but their marketing materials make it harder to decipher what the true projected gains will be. The factory stock numbers are -25HP/19TQ less than what they have claimed to record as their stock baseline. I could easily believe that.
Weistech is advertising +60HP/122TQ with no catless downpipes.
If you add Renntech's projected gains or projected gains (less the difference from the factory numbers) you end up with a range for projected HP gains of 609HP-659HP, but Weistech still is the highest for TQ in any calculation.
I haven't been able to find any current threads with up to date info on which of these tuners will be best for me. Or any threads to sort out the Renntech calculation issue.
Has anyone had an experience recently with either brand for a GTC tune? If so, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
To be honest, there is only so much they can do (safely) with these engines, the gains are quite similar in the end.
By the seat of the pants, you just can't tell which is performing better, you can't lose going with either.
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kumizi (05-26-2020)
05-25-2020, 09:57 PM
#35
Super Member
There is no issue with the ability of the M178 or the drivetrain of the car to handle more power. My comment was regarding the GT/GTS, NOT GTC or GTR. GT and GTS are built a bit different and are not geared for a race track and therefore adding significant power to it may be stability and safety issue. That is all.
It doesn't really matter either way. On the street, a 20% gain in hp isn't going to cause any safety issues. You'll just feel a little more OOOMPH when you punch it at 50mph. That's what 90% of people do with their cars.
These tunes and mods produce more heat and that's a definite factor for people that track their cars. If I was a track junky, I probably wouldn't tune my car or monitor all the temps very closely. That's why there has been years of debate between those who tune and those who dont.
Non tuner: "do you think your tuner knows more than the dozens of engineers that work at AMG?"
tuner: "relax dude. this is just for a 50-100 punch. the car isnt going to fall apart. AMG engineers have to worry about repeated abuse in extreme conditions."
Last edited by kumizi; 05-25-2020 at 10:30 PM.
05-25-2020, 10:05 PM
#36
Super Member
Clearly you are the guy that has to be right...and yes, it would appear we are.
here is a summary of what I said - the tune isn't as much benefit for a GTC and I'm not sure on paying full price for the tune which markets itself on base model specs that the GTC isnt
you appeared to say - there is benefit with both cars because there is a nice boost in both cases, the base model being higher benefactor but sizable gains for both.
Since both things can be true, yes, Id say that's called talking past each other. If I am correct in what you are trying to say, I FULLY understand what you are throwing down. What we wrapping around the axle on is the value - I can appreciate that you see lots of benefit for your bucks. Im sitting with a GTC wondering if I want to do this tune first or spend on something else - and the literature simply isn't clear on the gains; especially with the specs still showing some degree of debate.
here is a summary of what I said - the tune isn't as much benefit for a GTC and I'm not sure on paying full price for the tune which markets itself on base model specs that the GTC isnt
you appeared to say - there is benefit with both cars because there is a nice boost in both cases, the base model being higher benefactor but sizable gains for both.
Since both things can be true, yes, Id say that's called talking past each other. If I am correct in what you are trying to say, I FULLY understand what you are throwing down. What we wrapping around the axle on is the value - I can appreciate that you see lots of benefit for your bucks. Im sitting with a GTC wondering if I want to do this tune first or spend on something else - and the literature simply isn't clear on the gains; especially with the specs still showing some degree of debate.
Last edited by kumizi; 05-25-2020 at 10:20 PM.
05-25-2020, 10:17 PM
#37
Super Member
The GT and GTS run 10.5:1 compression ratio.
The GTC and GTR run 9.5:1 compression ratio and bigger turbos. Because of the lower compression ratio, you can run more boost on these cars on pump gas.
The GTC and GTR run 9.5:1 compression ratio and bigger turbos. Because of the lower compression ratio, you can run more boost on these cars on pump gas.
05-25-2020, 10:31 PM
#38
Senior Member
I had probably a dozen cars with Renntech mods, only 4 with Weistec (2011 S63 vs 2012 good comparo on the same model).
To be honest, there is only so much they can do (safely) with these engines, the gains are quite similar in the end.
By the seat of the pants, you just can't tell which is performing better, you can't lose going with either.
To be honest, there is only so much they can do (safely) with these engines, the gains are quite similar in the end.
By the seat of the pants, you just can't tell which is performing better, you can't lose going with either.
Weistec Cons:
With Weistec, you have to remove your ECU unit and send it to Weistec, have them do the ECU changes, ship the ECU back to you and install the ECU back in your car. Now, what happen if you want to take the car to service? how to you put it back to Stock?. Well, you have to do the whole process again. (similarly, if you are in a state that require emission inspection). We have to remember that these tune are not street legal in most states. The alternative, of course is to buy a second Bosch ECU for Weistec to do the tune on that secondary unit and you keep your original ECU for your dealer visits/emission inspection.
Weistec Pros:
When you reverse from tune to stock, there is no record in the ECU that the car was in Tune mode. Permanent ECU change are better for cars that are exclusively used on race tracks.
RennTech Cons:
Moving from stock to tune is a traceable record in the ECU log. This is an issue only if you have a warranty claim relating to the Engine, or drivetrain and AMG will be looking at the ECU to see what could have cause it. A remote probability...
RennTech Pros:
With RennTech, you plug a small device to the OBD-II port under the drive's foot well, flick a switch to tune, and within 2 min your car is tuned and ready. To reverse, you plug the same device back in, flick the switch to Stock mode and the car will be in stock mode within 2 min. No need to remove an ECU unit from the engine compartment, shipping back and fort to Weistec, etc.
My 2 Cents..
05-25-2020, 10:33 PM
#39
Super Member
^
For most modern cars, it takes a few years for tuning companies to crack the ECU so you can tune the car using a handheld tuner and the OBD2 port. So for the first 2-4 years of existence, you have to mail your ECU to the tuner. Right now, I'm pretty sure they're all capable of tuning a GT(x) using the OBD2 port and a handheld.
Renntech focuses on Mercedes sales and is obviously much better at hiring someone to update their website with the latest information. Smart business. They can sell the same product for double the price as everyone else because people dont know better. Look at the EVM thread.
Companies like Weistec have moved on to tuning Lambos and McLarens and often dont bother to update detailed info on their websites for the sparse number of AMG customers they might get.
For most modern cars, it takes a few years for tuning companies to crack the ECU so you can tune the car using a handheld tuner and the OBD2 port. So for the first 2-4 years of existence, you have to mail your ECU to the tuner. Right now, I'm pretty sure they're all capable of tuning a GT(x) using the OBD2 port and a handheld.
Renntech focuses on Mercedes sales and is obviously much better at hiring someone to update their website with the latest information. Smart business. They can sell the same product for double the price as everyone else because people dont know better. Look at the EVM thread.
Companies like Weistec have moved on to tuning Lambos and McLarens and often dont bother to update detailed info on their websites for the sparse number of AMG customers they might get.
Last edited by kumizi; 05-25-2020 at 10:43 PM.
05-25-2020, 10:48 PM
#40
Super Member
DriveAMG, You are right about the turbos and boost, GT/GTS has a different turbo size then the GTC/GTR. However, as I have stated "the engines are the same" (M178).
These OBD-II HHT tunes are effecting mainly ignition timing and A/F mix. They do not change turbo boosts directly or any other mechanical part of the car (trans, suspensions, etc).
The amount of boost for GT/GTS will be different then GTC/GTR, but there is a boost and therefore consideration of the mechanical stress and safety need to be consider when dealing with the GT/GTS
These OBD-II HHT tunes are effecting mainly ignition timing and A/F mix. They do not change turbo boosts directly or any other mechanical part of the car (trans, suspensions, etc).
The amount of boost for GT/GTS will be different then GTC/GTR, but there is a boost and therefore consideration of the mechanical stress and safety need to be consider when dealing with the GT/GTS
And I'm pretty sure 95%+ of tunes do increase the boost.
I dont own a GTC/GTR so I can't say with 100% certainty. I know I run more boost than stock on my GTS, my Alfa, Porsch, Audi, and every other turbo car I've tuned.
05-25-2020, 10:48 PM
#42
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Absent, you are right about that they both provide similar results and price, however, here are some facts to consider:
Weistec Cons:
With Weistec, you have to remove your ECU unit and send it to Weistec, have them do the ECU changes, ship the ECU back to you and install the ECU back in your car. Now, what happen if you want to take the car to service? how to you put it back to Stock?. Well, you have to do the whole process again. (similarly, if you are in a state that require emission inspection). We have to remember that these tune are not street legal in most states. The alternative, of course is to buy a second Bosch ECU for Weistec to do the tune on that secondary unit and you keep your original ECU for your dealer visits/emission inspection.
My 2 Cents..
Weistec Cons:
With Weistec, you have to remove your ECU unit and send it to Weistec, have them do the ECU changes, ship the ECU back to you and install the ECU back in your car. Now, what happen if you want to take the car to service? how to you put it back to Stock?. Well, you have to do the whole process again. (similarly, if you are in a state that require emission inspection). We have to remember that these tune are not street legal in most states. The alternative, of course is to buy a second Bosch ECU for Weistec to do the tune on that secondary unit and you keep your original ECU for your dealer visits/emission inspection.
My 2 Cents..
Do you happen to know why the Renntech tune is recorded but the Weistec option isnt?
Anybody suffer from a warranty claim issue (like a major component rear end or trans) that was denied because of a tune?
05-25-2020, 10:50 PM
#43
Super Member
Yes. Everything you've posted in this thread has been wrong
The difference is not that Renntech can do it with a handheld tuner and others require sending the ECU out.
The engines among the 4 models isn't the same.
The tunes dont leave the boost at stock levels and just increase the timing.
The difference is not that Renntech can do it with a handheld tuner and others require sending the ECU out.
The engines among the 4 models isn't the same.
The tunes dont leave the boost at stock levels and just increase the timing.
05-25-2020, 11:00 PM
#45
Senior Member
Skilly, I heard from Weistec about the Cypher, but the comment was that it does not support the AMG GTx. That was about a month ago, maybe things change. Or maybe our Guru Expert on this blog knows the answer.. probably it fits only Lambos...
The recording is done in the ECU, so if you replace the ECU , the original ECU doesn't know about it. But in any case, it is usually not an issue.
As for claims, I was made aware about the issue by couple of people in Germany working for AMG. These are rare cases, which is also very difficult to prove.
The recording is done in the ECU, so if you replace the ECU , the original ECU doesn't know about it. But in any case, it is usually not an issue.
As for claims, I was made aware about the issue by couple of people in Germany working for AMG. These are rare cases, which is also very difficult to prove.
05-25-2020, 11:03 PM
#46
Super Member
ugh nevermind
Last edited by kumizi; 05-25-2020 at 11:45 PM.
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x96535 (05-26-2020)
05-25-2020, 11:10 PM
#47
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Thread Starter
Absent, you are right about that they both provide similar results and price, however, here are some facts to consider:
Weistec Cons:
With Weistec, you have to remove your ECU unit and send it to Weistec, have them do the ECU changes, ship the ECU back to you and install the ECU back in your car. Now, what happen if you want to take the car to service? how to you put it back to Stock?. Well, you have to do the whole process again. (similarly, if you are in a state that require emission inspection). We have to remember that these tune are not street legal in most states. The alternative, of course is to buy a second Bosch ECU for Weistec to do the tune on that secondary unit and you keep your original ECU for your dealer visits/emission inspection.
Weistec Pros:
When you reverse from tune to stock, there is no record in the ECU that the car was in Tune mode. Permanent ECU change are better for cars that are exclusively used on race tracks.
RennTech Cons:
Moving from stock to tune is a traceable record in the ECU log. This is an issue only if you have a warranty claim relating to the Engine, or drivetrain and AMG will be looking at the ECU to see what could have cause it. A remote probability...
RennTech Pros:
With RennTech, you plug a small device to the OBD-II port under the drive's foot well, flick a switch to tune, and within 2 min your car is tuned and ready. To reverse, you plug the same device back in, flick the switch to Stock mode and the car will be in stock mode within 2 min. No need to remove an ECU unit from the engine compartment, shipping back and fort to Weistec, etc.
My 2 Cents..
Weistec Cons:
With Weistec, you have to remove your ECU unit and send it to Weistec, have them do the ECU changes, ship the ECU back to you and install the ECU back in your car. Now, what happen if you want to take the car to service? how to you put it back to Stock?. Well, you have to do the whole process again. (similarly, if you are in a state that require emission inspection). We have to remember that these tune are not street legal in most states. The alternative, of course is to buy a second Bosch ECU for Weistec to do the tune on that secondary unit and you keep your original ECU for your dealer visits/emission inspection.
Weistec Pros:
When you reverse from tune to stock, there is no record in the ECU that the car was in Tune mode. Permanent ECU change are better for cars that are exclusively used on race tracks.
RennTech Cons:
Moving from stock to tune is a traceable record in the ECU log. This is an issue only if you have a warranty claim relating to the Engine, or drivetrain and AMG will be looking at the ECU to see what could have cause it. A remote probability...
RennTech Pros:
With RennTech, you plug a small device to the OBD-II port under the drive's foot well, flick a switch to tune, and within 2 min your car is tuned and ready. To reverse, you plug the same device back in, flick the switch to Stock mode and the car will be in stock mode within 2 min. No need to remove an ECU unit from the engine compartment, shipping back and fort to Weistec, etc.
My 2 Cents..
Weistech does offer the handheld model now. The Cypher.
I saw a thread about an ECU reset done with the gas pedal. Would this erase the record of a tune? Or is having a secondary ECU the best bet in a warranty situation?
Not super concerned either way. The warranty thing just kinda comes with the territory. I deleted a new truck with less than 100 miles on it. I guess I'm prepared for the risk.
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kumizi (05-25-2020)
05-25-2020, 11:17 PM
#49
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OP Again.
Weistech does offer the handheld model now. The Cypher.
I saw a thread about an ECU reset done with the gas pedal. Would this erase the record of a tune? Or is having a secondary ECU the best bet in a warranty situation?
Not super concerned either way. The warranty thing just kinda comes with the territory. I deleted a new truck with less than 100 miles on it. I guess I'm prepared for the risk.
Weistech does offer the handheld model now. The Cypher.
I saw a thread about an ECU reset done with the gas pedal. Would this erase the record of a tune? Or is having a secondary ECU the best bet in a warranty situation?
Not super concerned either way. The warranty thing just kinda comes with the territory. I deleted a new truck with less than 100 miles on it. I guess I'm prepared for the risk.
Were you able to get the dyno completed with the Stock GTC and then the Stage 1 implementation?
05-25-2020, 11:18 PM
#50
Junior Member
Thread Starter
