Weistech VS Renntech in 2020
05-25-2020, 11:20 PM
#51
Super Member
The more complicated cloned ECUs and bench flashing might pass an initial smell test. However, if you have a catastrophic failure like $15,000 transmission or $30,000 motor, the higher ups at Merc/AMG will find out about your tune no matter the method you use.
Something else to consider. Every time you get your car serviced, any software updates will overwrite your tune. For this reason, it's best to have a handheld tuner with the tune on it ready to go in case your need it. I tuned mine using a bench flash because that was the only option four years ago. I have to remind my service advisor multiple times each visit to not do any software updates.
Something else to consider. Every time you get your car serviced, any software updates will overwrite your tune. For this reason, it's best to have a handheld tuner with the tune on it ready to go in case your need it. I tuned mine using a bench flash because that was the only option four years ago. I have to remind my service advisor multiple times each visit to not do any software updates.
05-25-2020, 11:24 PM
#52
Super Member
GTS: 10.5:1 compression ratio. Stock boost is 16. Around 20psi with a tune (same as GT).
GTC: 9.5:1 is the compression ratio. Stock boost is 18.1. I'm guessing a tuned GTC is running around 22psi.
GTR: same 9.5:1 compression ratio. Stock boost is already 19.6 so a jump to ~22 doesn't provide huge gains.
This explains why a tuned GT/GTS make the same power and a tuned GTC/GTR make the same power.
Last edited by kumizi; 05-25-2020 at 11:27 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Hetzle (05-26-2020)
05-25-2020, 11:32 PM
#53
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: California
Posts: 1,291
Received 622 Likes
on
369 Posts
2020 McLaren 720s Spider
GT: 10.5:1 compression ratio. Stock boost 14.5 I'm guessing around 20psi with a tune.
GTS: 10.5:1 compression ratio. Stock boost is 16. Same as GT. Around 20psi.
GTC: 9.5:1 is the compression ratio. Stock boost is 18.1. I'm guessing a tuned GTC is running around 22psi.
GTR: same 9.5:1 compression ratio. Stock boost is already 19.6 so a jump to ~22 doesn't provide huge gains.
This explains why a tuned GT/GTS make the same power and a tuned GTC/GTR make the same power.
GTS: 10.5:1 compression ratio. Stock boost is 16. Same as GT. Around 20psi.
GTC: 9.5:1 is the compression ratio. Stock boost is 18.1. I'm guessing a tuned GTC is running around 22psi.
GTR: same 9.5:1 compression ratio. Stock boost is already 19.6 so a jump to ~22 doesn't provide huge gains.
This explains why a tuned GT/GTS make the same power and a tuned GTC/GTR make the same power.
The confusion that I have been having all along is that I thought there was more tolerance to squeeze more out of the GTC/GTR than the GT/GTS - same engine but different set up. THe OE Tune you had posted shows an identical outcome for all 4. Is that just because its marginal what they could get over and above and not worth setting the 2 set ups differently or is the max you can get from each set up netting out the same results? The Renntech Dyno sheets delineate between GT/GTS and GTC/GTR in terms of the gains.
05-25-2020, 11:33 PM
#54
Senior Member
GT: 10.5:1 compression ratio. Stock boost 14.5 I'm guessing around 20psi with a tune.
GTS: 10.5:1 compression ratio. Stock boost is 16. Around 20psi with a tune (same as GT).
GTC: 9.5:1 is the compression ratio. Stock boost is 18.1. I'm guessing a tuned GTC is running around 22psi.
GTR: same 9.5:1 compression ratio. Stock boost is already 19.6 so a jump to ~22 doesn't provide huge gains.
This explains why a tuned GT/GTS make the same power and a tuned GTC/GTR make the same power.
GTS: 10.5:1 compression ratio. Stock boost is 16. Around 20psi with a tune (same as GT).
GTC: 9.5:1 is the compression ratio. Stock boost is 18.1. I'm guessing a tuned GTC is running around 22psi.
GTR: same 9.5:1 compression ratio. Stock boost is already 19.6 so a jump to ~22 doesn't provide huge gains.
This explains why a tuned GT/GTS make the same power and a tuned GTC/GTR make the same power.
How does the increase in boost effect the wastegate?
05-25-2020, 11:35 PM
#56
Super Member
1) because their bread and butter is Mercedes
2) most tuners are not good business people. they get lost tuning the next car that comes in instead of educating the consumer
All the tunes are the same. It's just marketing. One tuner will go out in 70 degree weather and set a world record. The next week another tuner will go out in 60 degree weather and set a new world record. It's all the same. If you like the fact that Renntech provides you with all their information, you can/should reward them by spending $3000 on their tune vs $1500-2000 somewhere else.
When you have a highly modified car, that's when tuning skills really come into play.
Last edited by kumizi; 05-25-2020 at 11:59 PM.
05-25-2020, 11:41 PM
#57
Super Member
The wastegate regulates boost.
The stock diverter valves are the part that is often prone to failure with increased boost. I haven't had a problem with them in my car yet and my tuner didn't mention them. Without googling, I bet there are several companies that do sell them for the M178. Should be $400-500.
The stock diverter valves are the part that is often prone to failure with increased boost. I haven't had a problem with them in my car yet and my tuner didn't mention them. Without googling, I bet there are several companies that do sell them for the M178. Should be $400-500.
05-26-2020, 12:21 AM
#58
Senior Member
The wastegate regulates boost.
The stock diverter valves are the part that is often prone to failure with increased boost. I haven't had a problem with them in my car yet and my tuner didn't mention them. Without googling, I bet there are several companies that do sell them for the M178. Should be $400-500.
The stock diverter valves are the part that is often prone to failure with increased boost. I haven't had a problem with them in my car yet and my tuner didn't mention them. Without googling, I bet there are several companies that do sell them for the M178. Should be $400-500.
05-26-2020, 06:14 AM
#59
Super Member
The video you saw
is the reset of the adaptive transmission. Doing this rests the memory and allows for past driving habits learned by the car to be reset and learned again. The ECU isn’t changed
The following users liked this post:
gshoe777 (05-26-2020)
05-26-2020, 10:20 AM
#60
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kenilworth, il usa
Posts: 2,924
Received 378 Likes
on
244 Posts
'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
Absent, you are right about that they both provide similar results and price, however, here are some facts to consider:
Weistec Cons:
With Weistec, you have to remove your ECU unit and send it to Weistec, have them do the ECU changes, ship the ECU back to you and install the ECU back in your car. Now, what happen if you want to take the car to service? how to you put it back to Stock?. Well, you have to do the whole process again. (similarly, if you are in a state that require emission inspection). We have to remember that these tune are not street legal in most states. The alternative, of course is to buy a second Bosch ECU for Weistec to do the tune on that secondary unit and you keep your original ECU for your dealer visits/emission inspection.
Weistec Pros:
When you reverse from tune to stock, there is no record in the ECU that the car was in Tune mode. Permanent ECU change are better for cars that are exclusively used on race tracks.
RennTech Cons:
Moving from stock to tune is a traceable record in the ECU log. This is an issue only if you have a warranty claim relating to the Engine, or drivetrain and AMG will be looking at the ECU to see what could have cause it. A remote probability...
RennTech Pros:
With RennTech, you plug a small device to the OBD-II port under the drive's foot well, flick a switch to tune, and within 2 min your car is tuned and ready. To reverse, you plug the same device back in, flick the switch to Stock mode and the car will be in stock mode within 2 min. No need to remove an ECU unit from the engine compartment, shipping back and fort to Weistec, etc.
My 2 Cents..
Weistec Cons:
With Weistec, you have to remove your ECU unit and send it to Weistec, have them do the ECU changes, ship the ECU back to you and install the ECU back in your car. Now, what happen if you want to take the car to service? how to you put it back to Stock?. Well, you have to do the whole process again. (similarly, if you are in a state that require emission inspection). We have to remember that these tune are not street legal in most states. The alternative, of course is to buy a second Bosch ECU for Weistec to do the tune on that secondary unit and you keep your original ECU for your dealer visits/emission inspection.
Weistec Pros:
When you reverse from tune to stock, there is no record in the ECU that the car was in Tune mode. Permanent ECU change are better for cars that are exclusively used on race tracks.
RennTech Cons:
Moving from stock to tune is a traceable record in the ECU log. This is an issue only if you have a warranty claim relating to the Engine, or drivetrain and AMG will be looking at the ECU to see what could have cause it. A remote probability...
RennTech Pros:
With RennTech, you plug a small device to the OBD-II port under the drive's foot well, flick a switch to tune, and within 2 min your car is tuned and ready. To reverse, you plug the same device back in, flick the switch to Stock mode and the car will be in stock mode within 2 min. No need to remove an ECU unit from the engine compartment, shipping back and fort to Weistec, etc.
My 2 Cents..
For the past 9 years I go with Renntech exclusively, simply for convenience and stress free servicing (my dealer does all the mods, including the installation of Renntech modified turbos).
My car is covered by warranty with my understanding that in case the engine or transmission blows up I would have to pay for it.
They stopped doing mods for other folks, continue with me because they trust me after working with them for 30 years and having already dealt with an engine problem and Status 8 on my car, that I took care of without any argument.
The following users liked this post:
G. P (05-26-2020)
05-26-2020, 11:24 AM
#61
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: California
Posts: 1,291
Received 622 Likes
on
369 Posts
2020 McLaren 720s Spider
Renntech is the only one that bothers updating their website.
1) because their bread and butter is Mercedes
2) most tuners are not good business people. they get lost tuning the next car that comes in instead of educating the consumer
All the tunes are the same. It's just marketing. One tuner will go out in 70 degree weather and set a world record. The next week another tuner will go out in 60 degree weather and set a new world record. It's all the same. If you like the fact that Renntech provides you with all their information, you can/should reward them by spending $3000 on their tune vs $1500-2000 somewhere else.
When you have a highly modified car, that's when tuning skills really come into play.
1) because their bread and butter is Mercedes
2) most tuners are not good business people. they get lost tuning the next car that comes in instead of educating the consumer
All the tunes are the same. It's just marketing. One tuner will go out in 70 degree weather and set a world record. The next week another tuner will go out in 60 degree weather and set a new world record. It's all the same. If you like the fact that Renntech provides you with all their information, you can/should reward them by spending $3000 on their tune vs $1500-2000 somewhere else.
When you have a highly modified car, that's when tuning skills really come into play.
So is what you are saying that despite the differences in the GT/GTS vs. GTC/GTR (Turbos etc) the tunes are all the same and no tweaking or advantages are to be gained between the build differences. When you noted the lower compression and higher capacity turbos it translated to me as better gains capacity, especially on pump gas. Sounds like that's I might have that wrong?
Not sure where you are finding a 1500 ECU tune; sounds like piggyback price point (installed), which is what I gone with in some of my previous cars.
05-26-2020, 11:43 AM
#62
The following users liked this post:
KenGross (05-26-2020)
05-26-2020, 12:00 PM
#63
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: California
Posts: 1,291
Received 622 Likes
on
369 Posts
2020 McLaren 720s Spider
The $1500 tune they are referring to is from Eurocharged, which is a fantastic and reliable option, that most should heavily consider imo. It took me 15 minutes to install it via the handheld, not including the 24 hour turn around for the updated file for the ecu.
The following users liked this post:
KenGross (05-26-2020)
05-26-2020, 04:15 PM
#64
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: California
Posts: 1,291
Received 622 Likes
on
369 Posts
2020 McLaren 720s Spider
Just had a good conversation with both the Renntech and Weistec engineers - they were both really friendly and helpful. They both tune the GTC/GTR differently from the GT/GTS. Both take advantage of the different config in the GTC/GTR related to the turbos and the lower compression. They both spec 580whp/541 w LB-FT. Both have hand helds and both noted that the MB Century system doesn't detect tunes and count them - thats more of a BMW thing.
For Weistec, the handheld is limited to 2018 and older models. They are working on 2019 and 2020 but its not ready yet.
For Weistec, the handheld is limited to 2018 and older models. They are working on 2019 and 2020 but its not ready yet.
05-26-2020, 04:18 PM
#65
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: California
Posts: 1,291
Received 622 Likes
on
369 Posts
2020 McLaren 720s Spider
The $1500 tune they are referring to is from Eurocharged, which is a fantastic and reliable option, that most should heavily consider imo. It took me 15 minutes to install it via the handheld, not including the 24 hour turn around for the updated file for the ecu.
It looks like they have progressive tunes that start at $1,500.00 but if you want to go with the same specs as Weistec and Renntech offer, that ends up being $2,500.00
05-26-2020, 04:37 PM
#66
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Just had a good conversation with both the Renntech and Weistec engineers - they were both really friendly and helpful. They both tune the GTC/GTR differently from the GT/GTS. Both take advantage of the different config in the GTC/GTR related to the turbos and the lower compression. They both spec 580whp/541 w LB-FT. Both have hand helds and both noted that the MB Century system doesn't detect tunes and count them - thats more of a BMW thing.
For Weistec, the handheld is limited to 2018 and older models. They are working on 2019 and 2020 but its not ready yet.
For Weistec, the handheld is limited to 2018 and older models. They are working on 2019 and 2020 but its not ready yet.
05-26-2020, 04:46 PM
#67
05-26-2020, 08:39 PM
#68
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 57 Likes
on
35 Posts
MY19AMG GT-C; MY14C63-507 - former Audi B6 S4
Great information!
Just had a good conversation with both the Renntech and Weistec engineers - they were both really friendly and helpful. They both tune the GTC/GTR differently from the GT/GTS. Both take advantage of the different config in the GTC/GTR related to the turbos and the lower compression. They both spec 580whp/541 w LB-FT. Both have hand helds and both noted that the MB Century system doesn't detect tunes and count them - thats more of a BMW thing.
For Weistec, the handheld is limited to 2018 and older models. They are working on 2019 and 2020 but its not ready yet.
For Weistec, the handheld is limited to 2018 and older models. They are working on 2019 and 2020 but its not ready yet.
-Chris
The following users liked this post:
Skilly (05-26-2020)
05-26-2020, 08:58 PM
#69
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 57 Likes
on
35 Posts
MY19AMG GT-C; MY14C63-507 - former Audi B6 S4
Some food for thought....
So, I've been rather intrigued/interested (aka. obsessed per my other half 
) about this topic of tuned vs. stock. After doing some research online, it is interesting to note the following:
Per this link here we have a Renntech Stage 1 GTS out on the Autobahn. It's 100Km/hr-200Km/hr timing with my iPhone stopwatch and reaction time is right around 6.35 seconds
This link here has a Renntech Stage 2 GTS testing on the Autobahn. The 100-200 time is just shy of 6 seconds; 5.98 with my reaction time
A stock GTC from an AutoTop NL review has 100-200 timings between 6.7-7 seconds
The GTR Pro in this link does it 100-200 sprint in 6.25 seconds
A Draggy confirmed time of 6.5 seconds is here
What fascinates me is that the difference between a Stage 1 GTS vs. Stock GTC is ~.5 seconds and the Stock GTR PRO is basically like a Stage 2 GTS! Of course, there are many things to consider: Ambient Temperature, Tire Temperature, Road Surface (in my experience, all Autobahns are the same smooth, glassy concrete), tire type (Sport Cup 2 vs. Pilot Super Sport vs. maybe something else?), fuel type (95, 98, 100 and 102 RON available in Germany) so there are many variables that can be gathered from these times. But it is good to see the "raw data" so to speak.
However, the wonder here: how would a GTR PRO respond to one of these tunes? The 100-200 timing would most likely be off the charts! If we could only get that weight saving on the GTC......
-Chris
) about this topic of tuned vs. stock. After doing some research online, it is interesting to note the following:Per this link here we have a Renntech Stage 1 GTS out on the Autobahn. It's 100Km/hr-200Km/hr timing with my iPhone stopwatch and reaction time is right around 6.35 seconds
This link here has a Renntech Stage 2 GTS testing on the Autobahn. The 100-200 time is just shy of 6 seconds; 5.98 with my reaction time
A stock GTC from an AutoTop NL review has 100-200 timings between 6.7-7 seconds
What fascinates me is that the difference between a Stage 1 GTS vs. Stock GTC is ~.5 seconds and the Stock GTR PRO is basically like a Stage 2 GTS! Of course, there are many things to consider: Ambient Temperature, Tire Temperature, Road Surface (in my experience, all Autobahns are the same smooth, glassy concrete), tire type (Sport Cup 2 vs. Pilot Super Sport vs. maybe something else?), fuel type (95, 98, 100 and 102 RON available in Germany) so there are many variables that can be gathered from these times. But it is good to see the "raw data" so to speak.
However, the wonder here: how would a GTR PRO respond to one of these tunes? The 100-200 timing would most likely be off the charts! If we could only get that weight saving on the GTC......
-Chris
Last edited by chris135b; 05-26-2020 at 09:02 PM.
05-26-2020, 09:41 PM
#70
Senior Member
Just had a good conversation with both the Renntech and Weistec engineers - they were both really friendly and helpful. They both tune the GTC/GTR differently from the GT/GTS. Both take advantage of the different config in the GTC/GTR related to the turbos and the lower compression. They both spec 580whp/541 w LB-FT. Both have hand helds and both noted that the MB Century system doesn't detect tunes and count them - thats more of a BMW thing.
For Weistec, the handheld is limited to 2018 and older models. They are working on 2019 and 2020 but its not ready yet.
For Weistec, the handheld is limited to 2018 and older models. They are working on 2019 and 2020 but its not ready yet.
Does anyone know how the Cypher works? are the ECU maps the Cypher can store need to be uploaded the a Weistec ECU? or does it works on the Stock ECU and update the map to it?
05-26-2020, 10:21 PM
#71
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: California
Posts: 1,291
Received 622 Likes
on
369 Posts
2020 McLaren 720s Spider
Thanks for the update. This is the same info I got from Weistec about a month ago. The Weistec Cypher seems to be at a very good price point.
Does anyone know how the Cypher works? are the ECU maps the Cypher can store need to be uploaded the a Weistec ECU? or does it works on the Stock ECU and update the map to it?
Does anyone know how the Cypher works? are the ECU maps the Cypher can store need to be uploaded the a Weistec ECU? or does it works on the Stock ECU and update the map to it?
First you had this information a month ago, and didn't share it (seems odd). Moreover, a lot of what you have said earlier in this thread (ECU counter; no boost manipulation) contradicts what I just updated the thread with.
The Cypher stores both your stock baseline and your tune, and it allows you to switch back and forth for things like service appointments or warranty issues. The only time you face an issue is if your ECU requires an update from the factory/dealer. The baseline will no longer work and they will need to refresh your settings - they may or may not charge you for this device update; it will depend on the circumstance but even if they do its a fraction of the cost of the original tune.
Not sure what you mean about pricing for the Cypher. Its $400 bucks, but doesnt do anything by itself - you have to purchase the $3000 tune to go with it. I suppose that it offsets the cost and hassle of sending back your ECU, but Renntech offers this convenience in their dongle format for their base pricing.
05-26-2020, 10:31 PM
#72
Senior Member
Im confused on a number of levels by this response.
First you had this information a month ago, and didn't share it (seems odd). Moreover, a lot of what you have said earlier in this thread (ECU counter; no boost manipulation) contradicts what I just updated the thread with.
The Cypher stores both your stock baseline and your tune, and it allows you to switch back and forth for things like service appointments or warranty issues. The only time you face an issue is if your ECU requires an update from the factory/dealer. The baseline will no longer work and they will need to refresh your settings - they may or may not charge you for this device update; it will depend on the circumstance but even if they do its a fraction of the cost of the original tune.
Not sure what you mean about pricing for the Cypher. Its $400 bucks, but doesnt do anything by itself - you have to purchase the $3000 tune to go with it. I suppose that it offsets the cost and hassle of sending back your ECU, but Renntech offers this convenience in their dongle format for their base pricing.
First you had this information a month ago, and didn't share it (seems odd). Moreover, a lot of what you have said earlier in this thread (ECU counter; no boost manipulation) contradicts what I just updated the thread with.
The Cypher stores both your stock baseline and your tune, and it allows you to switch back and forth for things like service appointments or warranty issues. The only time you face an issue is if your ECU requires an update from the factory/dealer. The baseline will no longer work and they will need to refresh your settings - they may or may not charge you for this device update; it will depend on the circumstance but even if they do its a fraction of the cost of the original tune.
Not sure what you mean about pricing for the Cypher. Its $400 bucks, but doesnt do anything by itself - you have to purchase the $3000 tune to go with it. I suppose that it offsets the cost and hassle of sending back your ECU, but Renntech offers this convenience in their dongle format for their base pricing.
I'll clarify: The info I got a month ago, was that they don't support the GTC yet. It seems that there is no change since then.
I didn't continue to look at the Cypher as an option, just into their ECU upgrade. I assumed the Cypher is like HHT, but you clarify that it goes with Weistec ECU as a package.
05-26-2020, 10:36 PM
#74
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: California
Posts: 1,291
Received 622 Likes
on
369 Posts
2020 McLaren 720s Spider
I'll clarify: The info I got a month ago, was that they don't support the GTC yet. It seems that there is no change since then.
I didn't continue to look at the Cypher as an option, just into their ECU upgrade. I assumed the Cypher is like HHT, but you clarify that it goes with Weistec ECU as a package.
I didn't continue to look at the Cypher as an option, just into their ECU upgrade. I assumed the Cypher is like HHT, but you clarify that it goes with Weistec ECU as a package.
The thing that is currently a challenge for them is their handheld is limited to 2018MY or older; not the tune itself. And, again, that isn't exclusive to the GTC, that is for the GT/GTS/GTC/GTR. They expect a fix shortly.
The following users liked this post:
G. P (05-26-2020)
