Check Engine Light
#1
Check Engine Light
Using an Auto Logic interface, the system is stating a misfire in cylinder 1 and 6 yet the car is running smooth and making full HP. Tried to clear the code but keeps coming back. Anyone experience this?
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
#2
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From: Arizona
Bentley Continental GT; AMG GT
So with the auto logic, you're pulling a P0301 and a P0306 consistently? You delete these two codes and they come right back (or they take a minute(s) to repeat)?
On misfires, these can be caused by either (or both) ignition issues or fueling issues. Ignition issues can be spark plugs, coils, associated primary or secondary wiring feeding the ignition source. On the fueling side, primarily fuel injectors can contribute to misfires either by becoming clogged or dirty causing an intermittent fueling void, or by leaking injectors that start to dump fuel when it isn't required. Also, an intermittent electrical input to these injectors could cause the problem.
The algorithm the EMS uses to measure and determine a misfire has a counter and a timer. There has to be a "number" of misfires and within a prescribed time to set a CEL. So, if you're getting the CEL returning consistently these two cylinders are showing some consistent issues. The only other possibility is an ECU that has gone defective (not likely). EDIT: And I should have listed that the CPS delay could be set too sensitively.
With the limited info given, and since you say that the engine runs smoothly and has full HP, I'd have to take an internet guess and start with fueling. Weak coils and or bad spark plugs would likely get worse under harder performance, but a leaking injector wouldn't necessarily.
On misfires, these can be caused by either (or both) ignition issues or fueling issues. Ignition issues can be spark plugs, coils, associated primary or secondary wiring feeding the ignition source. On the fueling side, primarily fuel injectors can contribute to misfires either by becoming clogged or dirty causing an intermittent fueling void, or by leaking injectors that start to dump fuel when it isn't required. Also, an intermittent electrical input to these injectors could cause the problem.
The algorithm the EMS uses to measure and determine a misfire has a counter and a timer. There has to be a "number" of misfires and within a prescribed time to set a CEL. So, if you're getting the CEL returning consistently these two cylinders are showing some consistent issues. The only other possibility is an ECU that has gone defective (not likely). EDIT: And I should have listed that the CPS delay could be set too sensitively.
With the limited info given, and since you say that the engine runs smoothly and has full HP, I'd have to take an internet guess and start with fueling. Weak coils and or bad spark plugs would likely get worse under harder performance, but a leaking injector wouldn't necessarily.
Last edited by Acta_Non_Verba; 10-07-2021 at 07:14 PM.
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California John (10-08-2021)
#3
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 347
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From: Rockport, TX
2007 S65 AMG-Sold, 2007 SL55 P030 - 2016 GL450 - - 2017 AMG GTS - Sold - 2015 AMG S65
I just went true the same experience (even changed a coil pack before doing this) and still got a misfiring message. After this simple treatment all misfiring went away ones Techron cleared my injectors.
Best H
#4
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From: Arizona
Bentley Continental GT; AMG GT
The Techron treatment is a good place to start and simple. Techron has worked in situations like these, sometimes. If not, at least you tried the easiest solution and the Techron is good stuff.
Techron is sold in parts stores and Walmarts in two strengths. There is a gray bottle called Fuel Injector Cleaner, there is a better version, the black bottle called Fuel System Cleaner.
They're both Techron, but the Fuel System Cleaner in the black bottle is a higher concentration of Techron. I've been using Techron regularly for 3 decades now. It's a good product for ongoing fuel system maintenance, and can be had on a regular basis just by purchasing gas at Chevron stations. But, buying a bottle and adding it to the tank (a full tank), occasionally, gives a little extra. By occasionally, I mean once or twice a year.
One caution though, I strongly recommend following the dilution instructions on the bottle. You don't want to keep a high strength dose of Techron in the fuel tank and the system for long periods.
Look for this product (Concentrate Plus):
Techron is sold in parts stores and Walmarts in two strengths. There is a gray bottle called Fuel Injector Cleaner, there is a better version, the black bottle called Fuel System Cleaner.
They're both Techron, but the Fuel System Cleaner in the black bottle is a higher concentration of Techron. I've been using Techron regularly for 3 decades now. It's a good product for ongoing fuel system maintenance, and can be had on a regular basis just by purchasing gas at Chevron stations. But, buying a bottle and adding it to the tank (a full tank), occasionally, gives a little extra. By occasionally, I mean once or twice a year.
One caution though, I strongly recommend following the dilution instructions on the bottle. You don't want to keep a high strength dose of Techron in the fuel tank and the system for long periods.
Look for this product (Concentrate Plus):
Last edited by Acta_Non_Verba; 09-29-2021 at 05:31 PM.
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#6
When I took my GTR to the dealer for P0301 they said apparently this is a known issue on the GT, P030185, P030022. PER TIP DOC# GI54.21-P-061775, Software update and scn coding on engine module, power traiasn moudule and trany module due to software issue.
They told me if it comes back they can change all spark plugs under that known issue even if the car is not in warranty.
They told me if it comes back they can change all spark plugs under that known issue even if the car is not in warranty.
#7
Update to this thread...
The check engine light mysteriously went off for a little while, then it came back on. Taking the advice of others in this thread, I ran the tank down to one bar on the gauge, poured in a bottle of Techron, added 12 gallons of fuel, applied liberal amounts of right foot pressure and voila... the check engine light turned off after 40-50 miles and has not returned since.
Thanks to everyone on the GT forum for the continuing education! Forums are SO MUCH better than social media.
The check engine light mysteriously went off for a little while, then it came back on. Taking the advice of others in this thread, I ran the tank down to one bar on the gauge, poured in a bottle of Techron, added 12 gallons of fuel, applied liberal amounts of right foot pressure and voila... the check engine light turned off after 40-50 miles and has not returned since.
Thanks to everyone on the GT forum for the continuing education! Forums are SO MUCH better than social media.
The following 6 users liked this post by PWR2W8:
AMG 17GT (10-07-2021),
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JSwan724 (10-08-2021),
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#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,184
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From: Arizona
Bentley Continental GT; AMG GT
Update to this thread...
The check engine light mysteriously went off for a little while, then it came back on. Taking the advice of others in this thread, I ran the tank down to one bar on the gauge, poured in a bottle of Techron, added 12 gallons of fuel, applied liberal amounts of right foot pressure and voila... the check engine light turned off after 40-50 miles and has not returned since.
Thanks to everyone on the GT forum for the continuing education! Forums are SO MUCH better than social media.
The check engine light mysteriously went off for a little while, then it came back on. Taking the advice of others in this thread, I ran the tank down to one bar on the gauge, poured in a bottle of Techron, added 12 gallons of fuel, applied liberal amounts of right foot pressure and voila... the check engine light turned off after 40-50 miles and has not returned since.
Thanks to everyone on the GT forum for the continuing education! Forums are SO MUCH better than social media.
#9
#11
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Joined: Oct 2020
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From: Arizona
Bentley Continental GT; AMG GT
If you're just adding it for ongoing use, the dosage recommended on the bottle is best. It's about 12 oz for about 18 gallons of gas. The 20 oz bottle would work for a much larger tank. I only add a 10 oz bottle of the concentrate to my cars about once a year because I get Techron in my gasoline at the pump all the time so I am using it always.
Techron is fairly safe, but you shouldn't go crazy with high concentrations for long periods left in the tank. It can be a little aggressive and really unnecessary in prolonged high concentrations.
Hope that helps.
#12
Well, if you're trying to fix a problem Techron can work in more concentrated doses for a temporary period, then further dilute with more gasoline. It's bottled in different sizes for different size tanks.
If you're just adding it for ongoing use, the dosage recommended on the bottle is best. It's about 12 oz for about 18 gallons of gas. The 20 oz bottle would work for a much larger tank. I only add a 10 oz bottle of the concentrate to my cars about once a year because I get Techron in my gasoline at the pump all the time so I am using it always.
Techron is fairly safe, but you shouldn't go crazy with high concentrations for long periods left in the tank. It can be a little aggressive and really unnecessary in prolonged high concentrations.
Hope that helps.
If you're just adding it for ongoing use, the dosage recommended on the bottle is best. It's about 12 oz for about 18 gallons of gas. The 20 oz bottle would work for a much larger tank. I only add a 10 oz bottle of the concentrate to my cars about once a year because I get Techron in my gasoline at the pump all the time so I am using it always.
Techron is fairly safe, but you shouldn't go crazy with high concentrations for long periods left in the tank. It can be a little aggressive and really unnecessary in prolonged high concentrations.
Hope that helps.
Grant
#13
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From: Arizona
Bentley Continental GT; AMG GT
I've seen it in other manufacturers. These are not real misfires. It's that "thresholds" on the delays the ECU sees through the Crankshaft Position sensor is set too sensitively. So, they create a simple SW patch to modify the data table the ECU is using to measure the delays. A lot has to do with the ways a particular engine is wearing in over time. Maybe the misfires start to appear in one car out of a high number of cars, enough that the factory creates the patch. It won't be a general recall, just cars coming in with misfires showing up, but they are not real misfires. They apply the DT change which modifies the threshold and the misfires magically stop appearing BC the ECU is no longer responding to the same sensitivity in crankshaft delays.
#14
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From: Arizona
Bentley Continental GT; AMG GT
mine would just be once in a while to keep the system clean. I think my car has a small misfire, I can feel a slight tremor when stationary maybe due to my Stage 2 tune... not sure, I need to go pull logs. But I figured at 35k miles its probably due for a clean (I bought it used).
Grant
Grant
Th other thing that I see sometimes, and here it's important to say, I am not trying to impugn ANY tuner anywhere, is that some tuners will simply desensitize certain ECU functions so their tunes (toons) are not constantly setting CELS or responding to ECU corrections. Lots of ways tuning is shortcutted BC it's easier to change a threshold or sensor sensitivity so the ECU doesn't respond. I've seen it on knock sensor timers and delays to stretch out the high octane timing tables rather than putting the time in to get the timing table correct. NOT good.
#15
My guess is you're feeling the tune as the change in CS speed the ECU is using to pick up misfires is like minutia compared to, lets say, pulling a coil primary plug which would be a genuine misfire and would make the car shake.
Th other thing that I see sometimes, and here it's important to say, I am not trying to impugn ANY tuner anywhere, is that some tuners will simply desensitize certain ECU functions so their tunes (toons) are not constantly setting CELS or responding to ECU corrections. Lots of ways tuning is shortcutted BC it's easier to change a threshold or sensor sensitivity so the ECU doesn't respond. I've seen it on knock sensor timers and delays to stretch out the high octane timing tables rather than putting the time in to get the timing table correct. NOT good.
Th other thing that I see sometimes, and here it's important to say, I am not trying to impugn ANY tuner anywhere, is that some tuners will simply desensitize certain ECU functions so their tunes (toons) are not constantly setting CELS or responding to ECU corrections. Lots of ways tuning is shortcutted BC it's easier to change a threshold or sensor sensitivity so the ECU doesn't respond. I've seen it on knock sensor timers and delays to stretch out the high octane timing tables rather than putting the time in to get the timing table correct. NOT good.
#16
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From: Arizona
Bentley Continental GT; AMG GT
So, the ECU uses the crankshaft position sensor to determine where any cylinder is in its combustion cycle. If a misfire occurs, at that moment, the ECU will see a brief interruption (delay) in the normal (expected) CS speed, it logs it as a misfire. In the next cycle, if the same momentary delay in CS speed occurs at the same position the ECU logs another misfire count assigned to the cylinder it recognizes at that place. The EMS designers determine how many logged delays should set a misfire CEL. Also, once a log is started, if the misfire doesn't repeat in the next cycle (or number of cycles) the ECU "forgets" the logged misfires and starts the count over.
It's that delay I was describing. The ECU can respond to delays you wouldn't necessarily feel, seat of your pants.
And, the shake you're feeling might not be related to a misfire. Could be where the tuner set the VVT, if they modified it.
It's that delay I was describing. The ECU can respond to delays you wouldn't necessarily feel, seat of your pants.
And, the shake you're feeling might not be related to a misfire. Could be where the tuner set the VVT, if they modified it.
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realien (10-08-2021)
#17
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From: Rockport, TX
2007 S65 AMG-Sold, 2007 SL55 P030 - 2016 GL450 - - 2017 AMG GTS - Sold - 2015 AMG S65
So, the ECU uses the crankshaft position sensor to determine where any cylinder is in its combustion cycle. If a misfire occurs, at that moment, the ECU will see a brief interruption (delay) in the normal (expected) CS speed, it logs it as a misfire. In the next cycle, if the same momentary delay in CS speed occurs at the same position the ECU logs another misfire count assigned to the cylinder it recognizes at that place. The EMS designers determine how many logged delays should set a misfire CEL. Also, once a log is started, if the misfire doesn't repeat in the next cycle (or number of cycles) the ECU "forgets" the logged misfires and starts the count over.
It's that delay I was describing. The ECU can respond to delays you wouldn't necessarily feel, seat of your pants.
And, the shake you're feeling might not be related to a misfire. Could be where the tuner set the VVT, if they modified it.
It's that delay I was describing. The ECU can respond to delays you wouldn't necessarily feel, seat of your pants.
And, the shake you're feeling might not be related to a misfire. Could be where the tuner set the VVT, if they modified it.
I believe that any the amount of time, research and money that the factory puts in is very hard to match for any after market tuners.
Enjoy your car.
Best H
Last edited by Hendrik Koster; 10-08-2021 at 08:09 AM.
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