Some questions on a recent 2016 GTS purchase
05-11-2023, 12:44 PM
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Some questions on a recent 2016 GTS purchase
Hi all, I am new here, having just traded my 2008 BMW Z4 3.0si for a 2016 MB AMG GTS with 22k miles. It's not exactly the dramatic upgrade for which I had hoped, so I thought it might be worth sharing my thoughts here and asking some questions.
For one thing, the Z4 felt a bit more sporty to drive in town. Maybe just because it was a bit lighter and had less power, I could run out the gears a bit more. I also had to drive the Z4 in third gear up to 40mph or so because it had the notorious lifter knock if one didn't build enough oil pressure consistently while driving. The GTS, on the other hand, shifts itself up to sixth while going 35mph, which seems odd to me. I know I could put the transmission into manual mode and shift myself, but I'm still trying to teach myself the different paddle technique of the GTS vs the Z4, which had dual purpose paddles that could shift up or down based on the direction they were pressed. It's it normal for the GTS to shift up so high? I am in comfort mode within the city, so this probably has a significant impact but the behavior still seems odd.
The second thing is still to do with the transmission. I've noticed that when I shift into drive or reverse from park, the car does not start moving on its own when I release the brake like other automatic transmission cars I've owned. Instead, I have to press the accelerator to get the car to move. After that initial move, I believe it always starts moving on its own when I release the brake after coming to a stop, though I can't say I've tested this systematically. Just wondering if this is normal behavior.
Yet a third transmission question: when taking off from a start, the car acts like a manual transmission car where one has not let out the clutch enough for it to grab. RPMs build upon pressing the accelerator, but the car does not immediately start moving. After a couple seconds, it acts like the clutch had suddenly grabbed, so the RPMs noticeably drop and the car starts to move. This really makes the starts feel not very sporty, as there is a lag before power is applied. Is this normal, or maybe tied to being in comfort mode?
Fourth, and final, transmission question is about red flags for transmission problems. Once so far the car has had a ragged stop where it bucked a bit and made gear chattering sounds as if down shifted. Around that same time, after getting back up to speed (around 45mph on this particular road), the car shifted into seventh gear and made a sound as if the RPMs were building up very high for a couple seconds, again as if the car were a manual and someone pushed in the clutch without releasing pressure from the accelerator. After I took my foot off the accelerator and reapplied pressure it sorted itself out. Is this an indication of impending transmission problems? Or maybe the car just needs to be driven some more to break back in? It sat on the dealer lot since November with little driving, and had obviously not seen many miles in its life.
The dealer from which I purchased the GTS wasn't an MB dealer, so I plan to get it to MB service soon for an oil change, at least. Anything else I should have them check based on known issues with the model or my comments above?
Hoping I didn't just make an expensive mistake with this car, and looking forward to your advice!
For one thing, the Z4 felt a bit more sporty to drive in town. Maybe just because it was a bit lighter and had less power, I could run out the gears a bit more. I also had to drive the Z4 in third gear up to 40mph or so because it had the notorious lifter knock if one didn't build enough oil pressure consistently while driving. The GTS, on the other hand, shifts itself up to sixth while going 35mph, which seems odd to me. I know I could put the transmission into manual mode and shift myself, but I'm still trying to teach myself the different paddle technique of the GTS vs the Z4, which had dual purpose paddles that could shift up or down based on the direction they were pressed. It's it normal for the GTS to shift up so high? I am in comfort mode within the city, so this probably has a significant impact but the behavior still seems odd.
The second thing is still to do with the transmission. I've noticed that when I shift into drive or reverse from park, the car does not start moving on its own when I release the brake like other automatic transmission cars I've owned. Instead, I have to press the accelerator to get the car to move. After that initial move, I believe it always starts moving on its own when I release the brake after coming to a stop, though I can't say I've tested this systematically. Just wondering if this is normal behavior.
Yet a third transmission question: when taking off from a start, the car acts like a manual transmission car where one has not let out the clutch enough for it to grab. RPMs build upon pressing the accelerator, but the car does not immediately start moving. After a couple seconds, it acts like the clutch had suddenly grabbed, so the RPMs noticeably drop and the car starts to move. This really makes the starts feel not very sporty, as there is a lag before power is applied. Is this normal, or maybe tied to being in comfort mode?
Fourth, and final, transmission question is about red flags for transmission problems. Once so far the car has had a ragged stop where it bucked a bit and made gear chattering sounds as if down shifted. Around that same time, after getting back up to speed (around 45mph on this particular road), the car shifted into seventh gear and made a sound as if the RPMs were building up very high for a couple seconds, again as if the car were a manual and someone pushed in the clutch without releasing pressure from the accelerator. After I took my foot off the accelerator and reapplied pressure it sorted itself out. Is this an indication of impending transmission problems? Or maybe the car just needs to be driven some more to break back in? It sat on the dealer lot since November with little driving, and had obviously not seen many miles in its life.
The dealer from which I purchased the GTS wasn't an MB dealer, so I plan to get it to MB service soon for an oil change, at least. Anything else I should have them check based on known issues with the model or my comments above?
Hoping I didn't just make an expensive mistake with this car, and looking forward to your advice!
05-11-2023, 01:14 PM
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The Z4 is smaller and lighter, so it will be more at home around town. That's to be expected. AMGs are more at home on the open road or the track. Having said that, your issues sound like a combination of lack of understanding of the technical aspects of the GTS and in fact possibly a bad transmission.
First off, your Z4 had a torque converter automatic transmission. The GTS has a dual clutch transmission. Are you at all familiar with dual clutch transmissions? They are mechanically two concentric manual transmissions with two automated clutches. One transmission handles the odd gears and the other the even gears. So one transmission is engaged while the second one has the next gear preselected and when it shifts, the computer simply opens the current clutch while simultaneously engaging the other clutch. So yes this will often feel similar to a manual transmission as the engine has to first rev up a bit before the clutch starts to engage.
Having said that, some of what you are describing doesn't sound normal. There should not be a lot of lag, and your transmission seems to slip if you find the revs to go high w/o the car actually moving. Might wanna do a fluid change first. These transmissions need oil changes on regular intervals. Have you looked at the service records to make sure the previous owner(s) have kept up with the maintenance? This car has low mileage, so the transmission oil changes would have been due based on time intervals.
As for the shifting up to 6th gear around town in Comfort, yes that's pretty much the name of the game. These engines are thirsty, so early upshifts are done for fuel economy. Put it in Sport for a better response, then on open roads try Sport+ and Race and it will be different car, or even better shift manually. You gonna have to learn to drive it properly. These things are animals if driven properly, but be aware that the rear likes to play if you give it the beans. AMGs will happily go sideways.
First off, your Z4 had a torque converter automatic transmission. The GTS has a dual clutch transmission. Are you at all familiar with dual clutch transmissions? They are mechanically two concentric manual transmissions with two automated clutches. One transmission handles the odd gears and the other the even gears. So one transmission is engaged while the second one has the next gear preselected and when it shifts, the computer simply opens the current clutch while simultaneously engaging the other clutch. So yes this will often feel similar to a manual transmission as the engine has to first rev up a bit before the clutch starts to engage.
Having said that, some of what you are describing doesn't sound normal. There should not be a lot of lag, and your transmission seems to slip if you find the revs to go high w/o the car actually moving. Might wanna do a fluid change first. These transmissions need oil changes on regular intervals. Have you looked at the service records to make sure the previous owner(s) have kept up with the maintenance? This car has low mileage, so the transmission oil changes would have been due based on time intervals.
As for the shifting up to 6th gear around town in Comfort, yes that's pretty much the name of the game. These engines are thirsty, so early upshifts are done for fuel economy. Put it in Sport for a better response, then on open roads try Sport+ and Race and it will be different car, or even better shift manually. You gonna have to learn to drive it properly. These things are animals if driven properly, but be aware that the rear likes to play if you give it the beans. AMGs will happily go sideways.
Last edited by superswiss; 05-11-2023 at 01:18 PM.
05-11-2023, 01:43 PM
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Thank you for the explanation of the transmission. You're right that I have some knowledge gaps to fill in regarding the technical side of the GTS. I've been looking around for a "real" car for a while now, but haven't really spent any time in one. The Z4 also had a loose back end when it was given a decent amount of gas, so I'm familiar with the sensation. I expect things could go badly more quickly with the GTS, though, because it does have so much more power available. I'm driving cautiously for now to get used to the differences.
I'll have to check on the service records. The Carfax reported some maintenance done, but I don't recall offhand seeing a transmission oil change listed. Mostly the service entries dealt with tires and oil changes, from what I remember. I'll try to get a service appointment made soon.
I'll have to check on the service records. The Carfax reported some maintenance done, but I don't recall offhand seeing a transmission oil change listed. Mostly the service entries dealt with tires and oil changes, from what I remember. I'll try to get a service appointment made soon.
05-11-2023, 01:51 PM
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What gets you is the torque. The GTS has more than twice the torque of your Z4. It'll brake tires loose much much more easily if you are not careful on the throttle, especially if the tires are cold. ESP does a good job keeping you on the road, but it also kills the fun. Put ESP in Sport handling mode to start having some real fun, but if you are new to these cars I highly recommend you attend an AMG Driving Academy session to safely learn the limits of these cars. It makes them much more enjoyable once you know what you are dealing with and where the limits are.
https://www.amgacademy.com/
A little teaser, here's one of my recent ones in Germany in the GT Black Series:
https://www.amgacademy.com/
A little teaser, here's one of my recent ones in Germany in the GT Black Series:
Last edited by superswiss; 05-11-2023 at 02:10 PM.
05-11-2023, 06:49 PM
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The DCT is also adaptive in nature, so if you’re driving it in ‘C’ mode and are mostly taking it easy, the transmission will act in a ‘lazy’ fashion; this is 100% normal.
Set up an ‘I’ (Individual) mode where you can keep the suspension in Comfort, but place the drivetrain in Sport. This will keep the engine revs up and delay the upshifts. Also you can choose the Steering input you’d like.
When coming to a stop and the car is at say 15/20 mph, pull the left paddle to manually downshift into 2nd and then 1st gear. The revs will transiently rise as the gearbox changes down and will reduce any ‘bucking’ you might notice when stopping, etc. You can also downshift going into a corner and then when through it as long as you’ve left the transmission in ‘D’ it will automatically revert back to upshifting without you having to do anything. (A great trick is to pull and hold the left paddle when braking for a corner, and the car will shift into the lowest allowable gear for maximum attack mode on corner exit).
I would have the car checked out at a MB dealership for peace of mind, but service there will be pricy.
Set up an ‘I’ (Individual) mode where you can keep the suspension in Comfort, but place the drivetrain in Sport. This will keep the engine revs up and delay the upshifts. Also you can choose the Steering input you’d like.
When coming to a stop and the car is at say 15/20 mph, pull the left paddle to manually downshift into 2nd and then 1st gear. The revs will transiently rise as the gearbox changes down and will reduce any ‘bucking’ you might notice when stopping, etc. You can also downshift going into a corner and then when through it as long as you’ve left the transmission in ‘D’ it will automatically revert back to upshifting without you having to do anything. (A great trick is to pull and hold the left paddle when braking for a corner, and the car will shift into the lowest allowable gear for maximum attack mode on corner exit).
I would have the car checked out at a MB dealership for peace of mind, but service there will be pricy.
05-15-2023, 10:13 AM
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Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check out the individual settings mode and keep an eye out for nearby academies.
The car seems to operate a bit more smoothly on recent serving excursions. I could just be getting more accustomed to the differences, but it could also just be that it needed some drive time after sitting on a lot for several months. Either way, it's getting better. Will still have it checked out soon to make sure all is well.
The car seems to operate a bit more smoothly on recent serving excursions. I could just be getting more accustomed to the differences, but it could also just be that it needed some drive time after sitting on a lot for several months. Either way, it's getting better. Will still have it checked out soon to make sure all is well.
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thebishman (05-15-2023)
06-05-2023, 09:27 PM
#7
I hope you have some kind of warranty for the transmission from the dealer who sold it. Just had to replace my trans at 33k miles because of a faulty 'rpm sensor'. It is unrepairable because it's buried inside the trans case. That cost $20k!! If your car is driving funny now, get to MB dealer pronto and ask for diagnostic codes. Definitely check for recalls as there is one for a transmission leak that MB will pay for. I was not that lucky.
On the other issues, the car does seem to lug in the upper gears if going about 30 mph in automatic shift mode and my experience is that the car does need a touch of the accelerator to get it moving from a standstill but very little lag. The previous post has it right. This car is a beast and wants to be driven hard. Good luck.
On the other issues, the car does seem to lug in the upper gears if going about 30 mph in automatic shift mode and my experience is that the car does need a touch of the accelerator to get it moving from a standstill but very little lag. The previous post has it right. This car is a beast and wants to be driven hard. Good luck.
