AustinGuy

Who makes these products? Any searches I do take me to autogeek.net.

Is there a company behind these 2?

On that note, what's the difference between a wax, polish and sealant? I can't seem to figure out which would be the best. By "best", I mean the one that
- has the best ingredients (pH level, least amt. of abrasives, etc.),
- lasts longest,
- gives the best shine (although I can understand if it's not a Carnauba level)
- does NOT have any long term negative affects on the paint/clear coat.

CynCarvin32

I have never used the wolf product but I have used Pinnacle. They make a great carnuba wax and a pretty nice liquid wax. The pollycharger makes it last a bit longer than normal liquid wax but that still is not as strong as a synthetic product.

I use the following on my S63 and I am pretty darn critical of the vehicle finish. I use the line of Menzerna Polishes and you likely only need PO106FA and maybe super intensive polish PO84 RD 3.02 if you have deeper scratches. After the finish is perfect with no scratches I will use blackfire wet diamond and or menzerna FMJ. I think the two are related in make up but the blackfire product seems to last longer and it has that same pollycharger if that actually helps at all. On top of that you can use a high end carnuba if you want to make the paint look a bit deeper and more natural since a synthetic product tends to be a bit more reflective than it is deep in finish. But FMJ and wetdiamond actually are fairly deep in finish when compared to other synthetic sealant products like Zaino so that final step is just a matter of personal taste.

If you have a black car a product called Amigo by detailers paradise will give the paint an extremely dark finish before you seal and protect it. This product is a finishing glaze but unlike most glazes it does not have a super oily texture. This means its synthetic construction allows for you to put additional layers of protection on top. Normal glazes do not allow you to use a sealant as they will not bond to the surface.

And of course get a flex buffer to do all this work. It will be your best friend. superior auto care has the cheapest price around for the buffer and autogeek.com has the complete line of menzerna polishes at the lowest prices I have seen.

enjoy

Timeless

Wolfgang and Pinnacle are companies that sell through distributors like Autogeek.net.

I love the Wolfgang products and would highly recommend them.

Polish is used to remove old wax, swirls, imperfections, etc. Polishes are rated on their cutting ability. They cut into the clearcoat to remove these imperfections.

Wax or Sealant is used after the polish and gives you the last coat of protection. Wax is usually organic in nature and lasts only a few months at best while a sealant is usually synthetic or a blend of the two and lasts considerably longer.

AustinGuy

That was a great rundown!

I was also wondering about Menzerna and Klasse, again, because there is so much talk about the 2. What is each one good for?

Is Menzerna strictly a synthetic/resin wax? I have a brand new black S63 - no scratches at all. I love the deep glassy finish that a Carnauba gives. I assume I don't need a polish, what would you recommend? Wax, sealant? Menzerna, Klasse, P21S, Pinnacle?

CynCarvin32

Ok let me address your two questions here.

1) Menzerna makes a amazing line of polishes in increasing levels of cutting power. PD085RD (not the Super Intensive polish whos name is very close) to the Power Gloss cutting compound. Klasse is an "all in one" product with a separate sealant for added protection (the red bottle is the all in one product and the silver is the sealant). Menzerna also makes a nice synthetic sealer that is call FMJ (full molecular jacket). This product bridges the gap between a synthetic product and a carnuba wax by offering wonderful dept and clearity but with a level of protection never seen with carnuba was (carnuba will burn off your paint in a weeks time at most if you park the sun in the sun for any extended period of time and it offers very little protection even when just applied). Carnuba is great for a show car or as a top layer to add depth but its nothing more than a for looks product.

The All In One Klasse is likely the most powerful and useful product on the market. It does a little of everything. With a non aggressive pad it is a very nice cleaner for the paint and it offers a nice shine and reasonable level of protection. It is low dusting and very easy to remove. If you could have just one product to care for your paint this would be it hand down. If you use a more aggressive (orange) pad you can actually remove some light swirl marks with this product but it is not as effective for this on a Newer mb with nano paint.

2) For your car I will let you know that I hace really NEVER seen a MB come from the factory without swirl marks and serious levels of fall out from transportation (rail dust to be specific). I pick all my cars up at the VPC center before anyone has touched the car -- plastic still on the paint). I always see imperfections right off even though you may think the paint is perfect. Sadly basically no one in the dealership world knows how to DPI a car without scratching the hell out of the paint. They just dont care honestly.

So in the case of your new car, I have to say that a quick polishing with the 106FA polish will be helpful even if you dont think it will. What color is your car? If black it will be very helpful as every time you wash the car it gets small surface scratches. This polish is very minor and safe so dont fear being to aggressive. After that I think you can easily just go to a protection product of your choice. There are many but I am biased to the blackfire wet diamond product. The FMJ is hard to beat (though it lasts a little shorter than the wet diamond I believe) and Greg loves the Jet Seal product but I have never used it. Finally after that, if you want that deep dark look that is more about clearity than total outright shine I would put a layer of high end carnuba on the car. At this point it will look great.

So for the quick run down:

1) CLAY is a must to get off all fall out and rail dust that is in the paint.
2) Polish via Porter Cable or Flex polisher (get the flex as its worth the extra $$) with the 106FA Menzerna Polish (either a green pad or orange pad -- orange if you want to do a second polish or glazing as it can dull a tad compared to the green pad -- though it removes marks in the paint far better)
3) If you want a Glaze or very fine polish to get the absolute even look on the paint go for either the Amigo from Detailers Paradise OR the PD085 from menzerna with a glazing or finishing pad (black in color)
4) Two - Three coats of a protection product (i like wet diamond again)
5) A layer of carnuba. Either Pinnacle or if you want blackfire has a nice product I have used and enjoyed. Pinnacle may get the nod however.

FYI Carnuba alone is hazardous IMHO if you daily drive the car. I did my SL55 (040 black) with 3 layers of carnuba on top of a perfectly polished finish and i had the WORST water spots after a freak rain storm I did not expect. It took me literally 7 hrs to get the spotting out and I was ready to pull my hair out. I had just converted my SL55 to strictly carnuba as I rarely drive it and it never sits in the sun but I now always keep wet diamond on the paint and then put the carnuba on top of that. The carnuba alone was basically worthless.

Enjoy that S63. I call mine the worlds nicest sounding executive people mover!

Greg@DI

Great post CynCarvin32, you hit a lot of great points and provided some excellent details!

Greg @ Detailed Image

AustinGuy

Thanks CynCarvin32. You and Greg (on my other thread full of questions ) have really helped me out a lot.

I am not in the car business (software developer), but I love detailing - almost like an obsession. I love to see a well kept auto (of course my wife thinks I'm nuts).

I think at this point I have a good idea of the products I want to buy. I already have the P21S started kit (with Carnauba councours look, paint cleaner and shampoo), so I think all that's left is a good clay bar/lube, polish and sealant.

Is the Menzerna 106FA the least abrasive? How does one know that? Is there like a generic numbering system? I know that Greg likes the CM Jet Seal, but seriously, can either of you give me an unbaised view point based on quality and performance only? I know..... I know....... I'm just looking for the best product out there. $$ is not an issue.

As far as clay, I went to AutoZone the other day and bought the Clay Magic (blue) 100gm bar with CM lube (comes together in a box for $11.99) just so that I could try it out on my older VW first. I was not impressed. The clay was very hard and could not be reformed easily. Is this normal? Should I be going in for a better one like the Pinnacle UPC?

What's a paint cleaner (like the P21S that came with my kit) good for if you can get better cleaning out of a clay bar?

sprink49

Here ya go...http://www.wolfgangcarcare.com/

GL Troll

Google ‘Menzerna chart’. There is an Excel-like chart on this. Having said that, a lot of people including me still get confused.

I’m not familiar with P21s paint cleaner (I love the rest of their line). There will be a lot of loose crap on your car even after claying or that the clay has loosened but didn’t get wiped up. There may also be spots of old wax you missed with the clay. A paint cleaner or alcohol will remove this.

passcheco

Thanks for the great info, I have quick question, my car is about two months old, but only been on the road only two or three times it has a "dealer sealer" that I got sucked into, should I clay the car before doing the whole wax thing? Thanks

CynCarvin32

The dealer sealer is just junk. You should do what I wrote above and then you will have a sensational looking car. Sadly those systems sold to you as a wax for life are just junk.

Have fun!

CynCarvin32

I have a black SL55 (4 years old) and here is what I did to my car over the weekend to make it look better than new again.

1) Clay with a fine clay. I used clay from detailers paradise but you can get anything that works well. The fine clay will not do the work of the more serious clay but it also scratches less. This SL is always garaged so it has basically no fall out on it.

2) I polished it with my NEW FLEX POLISHER using green lake county pad (german specific pad for light polishing on nano paint cars) and P085RD from Menzerna. I must say the flex is the best thing since sliced bread. Coming from a PC polisher it is just amazing how much more power it has to cut the paint and remove light markings with even the lightest polish. At one point I got a rock in my applicator pad for my carnuba wax (not sure how) and i put a bunch of marks in the paint. One pass with P085RD fixed it where as a PC would have needed super intensive polish and an orange pad. BUY A FLEX polisher and some Menzerna polishes and you will be the happiest guy alive. For a black car, a green pad and the P085RD has the best finish I have found to date.

3) Then I did 2 coats of blackfire WetDiamond from Proper auto care and it looked like a sea of wet paint.

4) Finally I did a coat of BlackFires carnuba wax and it looked just about perfect. I will do one more coat before I drive the car.

At this point the paint was perfect.

I got a smoking deal on a Flex polisher and menzerna polishes at a sit I found. PM me for specifics. It is that cheap.

Do that exact system to your car and you will call me and buy me dinner. I promise you it will be perfect. Then again its about 500 bucks in goodies to get ready to clean!

PS. Just read around some detail sites and you should learn the ropes. Proper Auto Care has a great site for learning the system. The products dont matter as much as the skill. Good technique will make average products finish well but the best products in the hands of someone with no skill will look terrible. I started like you about 2 years ago and now I am mentally insane. My neighbors want to put me into a padded room and keep me in a straight jacket!

I am PM'ing you some sites. Enjoy

Pbl1

I would recommend to check out Detailedimage.com for ceramics like Gtechniq as well as Rupes buffers. They have a great blog too with a lot of experts contributing as another source for knowledge