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Old 06-20-2007, 12:56 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by harkgar
I cannot say if you are right about the Honda Accord hybrid not being able to run on electric power alone. The only car like that is a hybrid made by GM with an Ecotec 2.4 liter engine.
Maybe you should do some Googling on the subject first. All of Toyota/Nissan (Nissan buys its system for the Altima from Toyota) and Ford hybrids will run on electric power alone under light throttle. None of GM's hybrids do.

Look, I'm not a big fan of hybrids...they are appliances for the non-enthusiast, and the battery manufacturing and disposal is an environmental issue with current (no pun intended) technology...that's why I have a CDI instead. But the demand shows that people want efficient vehicles, and manufacturers are responding. That's a good thing.

Last edited by Alan Smithee; 06-20-2007 at 12:59 PM.
Old 06-20-2007, 11:38 PM
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Crusher California

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
Maybe you should do some Googling on the subject first. All of Toyota/Nissan (Nissan buys its system for the Altima from Toyota) and Ford hybrids will run on electric power alone under light throttle. None of GM's hybrids do.

Look, I'm not a big fan of hybrids...they are appliances for the non-enthusiast, and the battery manufacturing and disposal is an environmental issue with current (no pun intended) technology...that's why I have a CDI instead. But the demand shows that people want efficient vehicles, and manufacturers are responding. That's a good thing.
I respect your opinion because I am an enthusiast too. Read on MSN tonight that California is crushing "illegal" racers whatever that means. It is tough. I guess those lawmakers all drive slowly in battery power mogruls.

Sad.
Old 06-21-2007, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by harkgar
I respect your opinion because I am an enthusiast too. Read on MSN tonight that California is crushing "illegal" racers whatever that means. It is tough. I guess those lawmakers all drive slowly in battery power mogruls.

Sad.
that's our city too
It just happened
apparently if they hear a car is being built for speed it'll be crushed...wtf???
Old 06-21-2007, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by harkgar
I respect your opinion because I am an enthusiast too. Read on MSN tonight that California is crushing "illegal" racers whatever that means. It is tough. I guess those lawmakers all drive slowly in battery power mogruls.

Sad.
What is sad is seeing a mother and her child killed by street racing teenagers.

I'm almost getting the feeling that you are writing this stuff with tounge firmly in cheek, because it quite frankly borders on parody.
Old 06-21-2007, 12:55 PM
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What does crushing cars achieve?

Originally Posted by Improviz
What is sad is seeing a mother and her child killed by street racing teenagers.

I'm almost getting the feeling that you are writing this stuff with tounge firmly in cheek, because it quite frankly borders on parody.
I do not know how the State of California can do that. Has this been challenged in court? I know drug traffickers get their boats and cars seized (and sold at government auctions) but crushing modified cars is another matter totally. I guess they want to hurt these creative young men mentally which is very mean.
Old 06-21-2007, 12:58 PM
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Does a E320 CDi qualify?

Originally Posted by Improviz
What is sad is seeing a mother and her child killed by street racing teenagers.

I'm almost getting the feeling that you are writing this stuff with tounge firmly in cheek, because it quite frankly borders on parody.
I wonder if a Carlsson tuning box equipped E320 CDi qualifies for crushing in California.
Old 06-21-2007, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by harkgar
I do not know how the State of California can do that. Has this been challenged in court? I know drug traffickers get their boats and cars seized (and sold at government auctions) but crushing modified cars is another matter totally. I guess they want to hurt these creative young men mentally which is very mean.
California has had thirteen deaths from illegal street racing just this year. That's two a month. Hence the crackdown, where cars used in the act of illegal street racing are subject to being confiscated and crushed. Cars *not* used in illegal street racing are not being crushed, you see.

Sort of like if you use a gun legally, the cops can't touch you, but if you use it in the commission of a felony, the authorities can confiscate it and melt it down. Same principle here....if you live under threat of having your car crushed, I can guarantee you most people would pass on a street race.

Are you an anarchist, or a libertarian? You seem to tend more towards the former, based upon your comments. Is there any circumstance under which you believe that Government has any right to regulate anything?

Last edited by Improviz; 06-21-2007 at 01:51 PM.
Old 06-21-2007, 06:18 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Improviz
California has had thirteen deaths from illegal street racing just this year. That's two a month. Hence the crackdown, where cars used in the act of illegal street racing are subject to being confiscated and crushed. Cars *not* used in illegal street racing are not being crushed, you see.

Sort of like if you use a gun legally, the cops can't touch you, but if you use it in the commission of a felony, the authorities can confiscate it and melt it down. Same principle here....if you live under threat of having your car crushed, I can guarantee you most people would pass on a street race.

Are you an anarchist, or a libertarian? You seem to tend more towards the former, based upon your comments. Is there any circumstance under which you believe that Government has any right to regulate anything?
Thirteen deaths in a year is one a month. If the deaths were street racers then it is an even better statistic. Like cigarette smokers people should have the right to choose.

If a street racer kills a pedestrian there are already many laws to put him away for a long long time. Crushing cars are like the Chinese government asking for payment from death row inmates for bullets used in executing criminals.

Do you want freedom or absolute government power? Do not squander your freedom. Canada is much more European and left winged compared with the USA.
Old 06-21-2007, 10:46 PM
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3 important roles for the US government

Originally Posted by Improviz
California has had thirteen deaths from illegal street racing just this year. That's two a month. Hence the crackdown, where cars used in the act of illegal street racing are subject to being confiscated and crushed. Cars *not* used in illegal street racing are not being crushed, you see.

Sort of like if you use a gun legally, the cops can't touch you, but if you use it in the commission of a felony, the authorities can confiscate it and melt it down. Same principle here....if you live under threat of having your car crushed, I can guarantee you most people would pass on a street race.

Are you an anarchist, or a libertarian? You seem to tend more towards the former, based upon your comments. Is there any circumstance under which you believe that Government has any right to regulate anything?
The great late Milton Friedman declared there are 3 roles for government though I think 3 roles are 1 too many:

1) defending the country from hostile governments like the former USSR.
2) enforce property rights.
3) policing (i.e. protecting citizens from robbers not issuing "speeding" tickets and crushing perfectly crafted powerful cars.

The smaller the government the better. This reminds me of a neighbor who was annoyed about another neighbor, a Porsche driver's after market exhaust system noise so he complained to the police. A few weeks later the complainer was caught "speeding" by the police he called into the area.

Sometimes it is worst if your dreams come true.
Old 06-22-2007, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Improviz
California has had thirteen deaths from illegal street racing just this year. That's two a month. Hence the crackdown, where cars used in the act of illegal street racing are subject to being confiscated and crushed. Cars *not* used in illegal street racing are not being crushed, you see.

Sort of like if you use a gun legally, the cops can't touch you, but if you use it in the commission of a felony, the authorities can confiscate it and melt it down. Same principle here....if you live under threat of having your car crushed, I can guarantee you most people would pass on a street race.

Are you an anarchist, or a libertarian? You seem to tend more towards the former, based upon your comments. Is there any circumstance under which you believe that Government has any right to regulate anything?
The problem with your argument is that it is based at least partially on analogy, which always breaks down...gun use and automotive use are two completely different things. There are many places where one can legally use a gun to their liking, shooting ranges, hunting zones, etc. This is not to say that one may use his gun to hurt someone, just as running someone down with your car should be illegal.

On the other hand, Ca (as most other US states) has laughable speed limits. Someone cannot use their car anywhere near its or their abilities anywhere in this state legally. If we were talking about Germany, where people are truely free to drive (observing proper prodecure), then there can be no excuse for "illegal racing". The problem is that this government is so extremely restrictive and offers no reasonable outlet for people to drive as they like. I have a Valentine 1 for use in the US, and I could not imagine driving here without it.
Old 06-22-2007, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by harkgar
Thirteen deaths in a year is one a month. If the deaths were street racers then it is an even better statistic. Like cigarette smokers people should have the right to choose.
I did not say that there were thirteen deaths in the past year; I said that there were thirteen deaths THIS year. This year is, by my reckoning, 6 3/4 months old. 13 deaths/.5625 years = 23 deaths a year.

Originally Posted by harkgar
If a street racer kills a pedestrian there are already many laws to put him away for a long long time. Crushing cars are like the Chinese government asking for payment from death row inmates for bullets used in executing criminals.
Ridiculous.

Originally Posted by harkgar
Do you want freedom or absolute government power? Do not squander your freedom. Canada is much more European and left winged compared with the USA.
I do not want absolute government power, but I am not so blinded by ideology as to believe that a goverment taking harsh measures to prevent a behavior that results in the deaths of innocents is equivalent to rounding up dissentors and sticking them in a gulag, any more than I believe that preventing me from owning a machine gun means that tomorrow "jackbooted government thugs" will be kicking down my door and confiscating my kid's squirt gun.

While the concept of unrestricted freedom is an interesting one, the fact is that we do not live in isolation; we live in a society, where sometimes the rights of the individual get trumped by potential harm to the majority by said individual, or put more succinctly: Your freedom ends where my nose begins, and if someone who is using a vehicle to engage in illegal, dangerous behavior is subject to having the vehicle confiscated, the odds are that it will cut down on this illegal, dangerous behavior and therefore save lives.

But you really don't seem too concerned about the public health, given your rather cavalier dismissals of pollution regulations despite there being clear evidence of a public health hazard, so I am not really surprised at this stance.

Last edited by Improviz; 06-22-2007 at 11:38 AM.
Old 06-22-2007, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by harkgar
The great late Milton Friedman declared there are 3 roles for government though I think 3 roles are 1 too many:

1) defending the country from hostile governments like the former USSR.
2) enforce property rights.
3) policing (i.e. protecting citizens from robbers not issuing "speeding" tickets and crushing perfectly crafted powerful cars.

The smaller the government the better. This reminds me of a neighbor who was annoyed about another neighbor, a Porsche driver's after market exhaust system noise so he complained to the police. A few weeks later the complainer was caught "speeding" by the police he called into the area.

Sometimes it is worst if your dreams come true.
So you are, by your own definition, more of an anarchist than a libertarian, as you now freely admit (and have admitted previously via your pollution comments) that the government should have no right to intervene even when people's lives and/or health are endangered.

Further, you continuously frame the argument in a disengenous fashion, repeatedly acting as though police are crushing these cars merely because they are fast, not because they are being used in the commission of an illegal act.
Old 06-22-2007, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Untertürkheim
The problem with your argument is that it is based at least partially on analogy, which always breaks down...gun use and automotive use are two completely different things. There are many places where one can legally use a gun to their liking, shooting ranges, hunting zones, etc. This is not to say that one may use his gun to hurt someone, just as running someone down with your car should be illegal.
No, analogy does not always break down, because in both cases, the act of owning the object (car or gun) is perfectly legal, *provided* that one does not use the object in the comission of an illegal act that endangers the life or limb of innocents.

The right to drive is not unrestricted, and in fact is *more* restricted than the right to own a gun in the US; one must obtain a license to drive, but not to own a gun. One must have insurance on a car and pass safety and emissions tests to drive the car on public roads; one need not submit a gun for any inspection whatsoever to own one.

Originally Posted by Untertürkheim
On the other hand, Ca (as most other US states) has laughable speed limits. Someone cannot use their car anywhere near its or their abilities anywhere in this state legally. If we were talking about Germany, where people are truely free to drive (observing proper prodecure), then there can be no excuse for "illegal racing". The problem is that this government is so extremely restrictive and offers no reasonable outlet for people to drive as they like. I have a Valentine 1 for use in the US, and I could not imagine driving here without it.
Germany has speed limits everywhere but an ever-shrinking portion of the Autobahn, and in any case speed limits are not germain to this argument. No one is confiscating the cars and crushing them when they are used *only* to speed, there must be a street race. In other states, one can have their license suspended for one full year for being involved in a street race.

This is a dangerous, illegal activity, and people are dying as a result of it. The reason the government is acting on the problem is because of the public outcry over these deaths.

Last edited by Improviz; 06-22-2007 at 11:39 AM.
Old 06-22-2007, 06:05 PM
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Uhh ... what does any of this have to do with Bluetec MPG?

Old 06-22-2007, 06:38 PM
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a couple of members said they weren't getting the kind of milage they expected from their CDI... well, I can't say if its' due to the RennTech tuning, or the dry, warm climate of Phoenix... but I get AT LEAST 37mpg highway..

Here was my milage on a 20 mile drive on I-17 last summer.. average speed 66mph..

Old 06-22-2007, 07:38 PM
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Talking Maybe Could Be Even Better . . .

If you would run with your transmission torque convertor locked up.

Either your tachometer or your speedometer is incorrect OR your
T/C was not engaged when you shot that excellent picture.

2.65 X 0.82 X 810 = 1760 revs per mile/60 mph.

63 mph should be 1848 revs. Was your T/C engaged when you shot that picture?

BTW, you have listed the incorrect tire size in your 1/4 mile posting.

I believe that you are running Michelin MXM4 245/45R17s aren't you?

I tried to vote but I don't know how?

Old 06-22-2007, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT
If you would run with your transmission torque convertor locked up.

Either your tachometer or your speedometer is incorrect OR your
T/C was not engaged when you shot that excellent picture.

2.65 X 0.82 X 810 = 1760 revs per mile/60 mph.

63 mph should be 1848 revs. Was your T/C engaged when you shot that picture?

BTW, you have listed the incorrect tire size in your 1/4 mile posting.

I believe that you are running Michelin MXM4 245/45R17s aren't you?

I tried to vote but I don't know how?

Wow.. impressive math.. I don't know what the status of the TC was at the time of the shot (done with a cell phone).. I do know however that it was all done with Cruis Control on.. which does a much better job of getting good milage than I can.

Also, the Tires are indeed the 245's.. As I've put on the E500 wheels/tires..

to vote.. just click on the Vote button, then type in the gumbled numbers (for spam proofing) and you're done! I've got 70 votes so far... hoping for at least 100..
Old 06-22-2007, 09:36 PM
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I am a Free Annatarian

Originally Posted by Improviz
So you are, by your own definition, more of an anarchist than a libertarian, as you now freely admit (and have admitted previously via your pollution comments) that the government should have no right to intervene even when people's lives and/or health are endangered.

Further, you continuously frame the argument in a disengenous fashion, repeatedly acting as though police are crushing these cars merely because they are fast, not because they are being used in the commission of an illegal act.
Mr Improwitz:

However you like to describe my beliefs its OK. I am a free thinking man. When I was young I had shoulder length Rod Stewart hair and drank beer. Never did any illicit drugs unlike non-inhaling B J Bill but did a lot of what B J declared he never did with Monica. I drove very fast.

That was nearly 30 years ago. I am slowing down but I have not turned into another common old fart. I remember the things I enjoyed by young folks now and I am not about to lecture to them what they should or should not do.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. A lot of Germans liked Adolf for his high-handedness in bringing "results". If you let the American government do the same you will get another Adolf too. Like it or not you have to make sure the government, police and DAs included, do not get too powerful.
Old 06-22-2007, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by StevethePilot
Uhh ... what does any of this have to do with Bluetec MPG?

If the US government (Californian politicians in particular) have their ways you will not have any Bluetec mpg to talk about as there will not be any more diesel engines in the USA. Remember the voting to get rid of diesel school buses?

I bought a CDi for only one reason. I want to be grandfathered with the last of the freedom diesels.
Old 06-22-2007, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by harkgar

there will not be any more diesel engines in the USA
No.

Without Bluetec or an equivalent exhaust treatment light duty diesel sales would stop after the 2008 model year in all 50 states.

But fortunately we do have Bluetec, and thus diesels can continue. Some automakers who have already announced plans to introduce light duty diesel passenger vehicles in the USA by 2010: Audi, BMW, Chrysler, GM, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, Volkswagen and Mercedes. Hope I didn't forget anyone. Missing is Porsche. They are working on a gasoline electric hybrid...
Old 06-22-2007, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT
63 mph should be 1848 revs.
Speedos are typically inaccurate.
Old 06-23-2007, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT
If you would run with your transmission torque convertor locked up.

Either your tachometer or your speedometer is incorrect OR your
T/C was not engaged when you shot that excellent picture.

2.65 X 0.82 X 810 = 1760 revs per mile/60 mph.

63 mph should be 1848 revs. Was your T/C engaged when you shot that picture?

BTW, you have listed the incorrect tire size in your 1/4 mile posting.

I believe that you are running Michelin MXM4 245/45R17s aren't you?

I tried to vote but I don't know how?


I just realized that I was actually driving 66mph in that photo, and the rpms were just about 1900.. so do your magic match again and I think you'll find the TC was in fact engaged!
Old 06-23-2007, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by CE750
I just realized that I was actually driving 66mph in that photo, and the rpms were just about 1900.. so do your magic match again and I think you'll find the TC was in fact engaged!
So that 66 mph figure is indeed correct, but the needle is wrong?
Do you know how to check your speedometer against the mile posts?

The RPMs on your tach in your picture appears to be just south of 2000.

2.173 X 810 = 1760 devided by 60 = 29.3355 X 66 = 1936, so I guess
if your car is indeed traveling 66 mph, the T/C is engaged.

It is rather hard for most people that have these cars to be able to tell when and if their T/Cs are engaging. And most people do not care anyway.

MBZ has made the engagement or lockup to be so smooth as for most drivers to not be able to detect it.
The only way to be sure is to be watching your tach as it actually happens.
If it is not engaged and you accelerate slightly, you will see your
tach jump at least 100 rpm or more before the speed increases.
Both of my '99s did not have functioning T/Cs and there was much
discussion about me not knowing what I was talking about.
Be that as it may, I do know what I am talking about.
I can see it and even feel it in my son-in-laws '97 E-420,
and it has slightly taller gears than my older E-300 DTs.

Without T/Cs that engage, you are simply heating tranny fluid and wasting energy doing so.

Carry on. Enjoy your fine machine.



( I voted again today.)

Old 06-23-2007, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by harkgar
Mr Improwitz:
Is there some particular reason you chose to use that particular label? "witz" is, as I'm certain you're aware, a suffix commonly used on Jewish surnames. Is this some sort of anti-Semetic thing? I certainly hope not, but I'm at a loss to explain your motives here.

Originally Posted by harkgar
However you like to describe my beliefs its OK. I am a free thinking man. When I was young I had shoulder length Rod Stewart hair and drank beer. Never did any illicit drugs unlike non-inhaling B J Bill but did a lot of what B J declared he never did with Monica. I drove very fast.
All of which is irrelavent, your idiotic remarks about Clinton aside. Better to screw an intern than to screw a country.

Originally Posted by harkgar
That was nearly 30 years ago. I am slowing down but I have not turned into another common old fart. I remember the things I enjoyed by young folks now and I am not about to lecture to them what they should or should not do.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. A lot of Germans liked Adolf for his high-handedness in bringing "results". If you let the American government do the same you will get another Adolf too. Like it or not you have to make sure the government, police and DAs included, do not get too powerful.
And again, here we go with the typical "slippery slope" argument, which you don't seem to realize both ways: if you say "if they regulate my rights with regards to X, then tomorrow they'll take Y and Z" from me, it can just as easily be counter-argued that "if we don't prevent people from doing A, then tomorrow they'll be doing B and C".

Example: if they take my machine gun, tomorrow they'll take my squirt gun.

Example: if we don't regulate pot, tomorrow they'll be shooting heroin.

Both are equally dumb, equally illogical, and equally worthless, as is trying to impose a black and white ideology on a grey world.

I'm sorry, but you seem to have nothing to contribute but bigoted remarks, absoultism, xenophobia, and an extreme antiecological bias.
Old 06-23-2007, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by harkgar
If the US government (Californian politicians in particular) have their ways you will not have any Bluetec mpg to talk about as there will not be any more diesel engines in the USA. Remember the voting to get rid of diesel school buses?
Yes, which is why the vehicle is sold in 45 of 50 states, why it will be sold in 50/50 next year, why two new Benz diesels were released in the states this year, why GM, Ford, and Dodge have numerous diesels on the market, and why VW and Audi are going to be releasing new models next year.

Why do I get the feeling that you hoarde food, fuel, guns and ammo, waiting for the Apocolypse to come?

Originally Posted by harkgar
I bought a CDi for only one reason. I want to be grandfathered with the last of the freedom diesels.
O-kaaay.....um, have you ever considered Prozac?


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