Diesel Additives
#26
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2006 E320 CDI 235 hp 420 ft tq
Far more than its worth.
The only way to ensure that is to not drive your car 1000 miles from home.
Thats not its intended use, also, the fuel pump flows all the fuel out of the filter and back to the tank before its even been running 5 seconds.
Unless you're sucking fuel out of a tank thats been sitting in a farmer's field for 20 years, modern fuel is cleaner than ever.
You and millions of fleet vehicles around the world proves recreational fuel additives are not needed or useful.
The only way to ensure that is to not drive your car 1000 miles from home.
Thats not its intended use, also, the fuel pump flows all the fuel out of the filter and back to the tank before its even been running 5 seconds.
Unless you're sucking fuel out of a tank thats been sitting in a farmer's field for 20 years, modern fuel is cleaner than ever.
You and millions of fleet vehicles around the world proves recreational fuel additives are not needed or useful.
AND ???? Our fleet does use additives. for the fuel.
It has become apparent who you are and what your goals are please let people exchanges ideas and what we have as personal obervation.
Thank You
Last edited by 2slowcdi; 03-09-2012 at 07:11 AM.
#27
Your fleet is an extremely small minority. You could shave thousands from your budget by simply getting rid of useless additives.
That is exactly what is occurring in this thread.
YOU WILL NOT CENSOR MY FACTS. If you're scared that you're wrong, feel free to stop reading this thread. Everyone else with an open mind that want to learn and save money will be spared your ignorance.
please let people exchanges ideas
YOU WILL NOT CENSOR MY FACTS. If you're scared that you're wrong, feel free to stop reading this thread. Everyone else with an open mind that want to learn and save money will be spared your ignorance.
#29
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2010 GL 350 Bluetec
Looks like "240D 3.0 T" has been reinvented as "Whargoul" as mentioned above. No matter what name is used, the diatribes are all the same. Welcome back, that is until the moderator bans you again.
#31
If you are still interested read what MB has to say on the subject.
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_119_0.pdf
I usually defer in these matters to the manufacturer of the equipment I am servicing. As experienced as I am I admit that they may know more about it than I do.
Bottom line is I have been driving Diesel vehicles for 31 years and have never used additives. Am buying a new S350 with all the money I saved.
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_119_0.pdf
I usually defer in these matters to the manufacturer of the equipment I am servicing. As experienced as I am I admit that they may know more about it than I do.
Bottom line is I have been driving Diesel vehicles for 31 years and have never used additives. Am buying a new S350 with all the money I saved.
#32
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2006 E320 CDI 235 hp 420 ft tq
What I would like is a diesel fuel that has a Cetane that MB wants us to use I believe that to be 45 Cetane and here in the U.S. we get 40 Cetane.
Now would that void our warranty?
My last diesel needed 49 cetane and the 200,000 miles I put on it I used Cetane boost every tank and never had ANY problems with the fuel system or any other motor issues.
Did I spend money on the boost additive yes I did ,did it help the preformance injectors?
At 175,000 miles on them I had no ware on them when pop checked.
Will any auto maker ever say why yes you can use additives?
We all know what would happen if they did.
I will use a Cetane Boost in every tank of fuel I use , yes it will cost me money , yes I can pay for it , its just not that much money to worry about.
Will it hurt my car? It would have by now if it was going to.
See you at 250,000 miles if you make it.
Now would that void our warranty?
My last diesel needed 49 cetane and the 200,000 miles I put on it I used Cetane boost every tank and never had ANY problems with the fuel system or any other motor issues.
Did I spend money on the boost additive yes I did ,did it help the preformance injectors?
At 175,000 miles on them I had no ware on them when pop checked.
Will any auto maker ever say why yes you can use additives?
We all know what would happen if they did.
I will use a Cetane Boost in every tank of fuel I use , yes it will cost me money , yes I can pay for it , its just not that much money to worry about.
Will it hurt my car? It would have by now if it was going to.
See you at 250,000 miles if you make it.
Last edited by 2slowcdi; 03-19-2012 at 09:43 PM.
#33
Senior Member
What I would like is a diesel fuel that has a Cetane that MB wants us to use I believe that to be 45 Cetane and here in the U.S. we get 40 Cetane.
Now would that void our warranty?
My last diesel needed 49 cetane and the 200,000 miles I put on it I used Cetane boost every tank and never had ANY problems with the fuel system or any other motor issues.
Did I spend money on the boost additive yes I did ,did it help the preformance injectors?
At 175,000 miles on them I had no ware on them when pop checked.
Will any auto maker ever say why yes you can use additives?
We all know what would happen if they did.
I will use a Cetane Boost in every tank of fuel I use , yes it will cost me money , yes I can pay for it , its just not that much money to worry about.
Will it hurt my car? It would have by now if it was going to.
See you at 250,000 miles if you make it.
Now would that void our warranty?
My last diesel needed 49 cetane and the 200,000 miles I put on it I used Cetane boost every tank and never had ANY problems with the fuel system or any other motor issues.
Did I spend money on the boost additive yes I did ,did it help the preformance injectors?
At 175,000 miles on them I had no ware on them when pop checked.
Will any auto maker ever say why yes you can use additives?
We all know what would happen if they did.
I will use a Cetane Boost in every tank of fuel I use , yes it will cost me money , yes I can pay for it , its just not that much money to worry about.
Will it hurt my car? It would have by now if it was going to.
See you at 250,000 miles if you make it.
Prior to even TXLed though I know if you purchased Chevron diesel that Chevron tried for a typical rating of 48 but as with most all the companies they would not guarantee that number. Now if you lived in California then due to CARB requirements you will get upwards of 52 from Chevron. Not sure if it would be safe to assume that all the other States that follow CARB would also be in that cetane rating or not. Some random quotes from Chevron:
Typical Chevron production excluding California and Hawaii is 48 cetane. Chevron guarantees product limits only; typicals are average properties, and higher and lower values are to be expected.
Typical California Chevron production is 52 because of additional requirements of the California Air Resources Board (CARB) for vehicular diesel fuel.
Typical Hawaii Chevron refinery production is 61.
Typical Hawaii Chevron refinery production is 61.
U.S. average cetane is 45. There is no way to tell what the "at the retail pump" cetane value would be and is not required to be posted by law, as is the case for gasoline octane minimum rating.
ULSD will not change these typical averages much. Not lower. Maybe a little higher. (1-2).
ULSD will not change these typical averages much. Not lower. Maybe a little higher. (1-2).
http://www.tceq.texas.gov/airquality...eandiesel.html
Which if you search for cetane you will find:
The rule covers 110 counties in the eastern half of Texas, including the ozone nonattainment areas of Beaumont-Port Arthur, Dallas-Fort Worth, and Houston-Galveston-Brazoria. The rule requires that diesel fuel as defined under 30 TAC §114.6 produced for delivery and ultimate sale to the consumer –for both on and nonroad use – must contain less than 10 percent by volume of aromatic hydrocarbons and must have a cetane number of 48 or greater. Some compliance options are allowed.
Premium diesel is an additive package that includes detergent, corrosion inhibitor, lubricity improver, and some cetane improver. We do not make specific claims as to cetane number above the base 40 min cetane
To qualify as a Premium Diesel the following four properties of the fuel had to be met (ASTM is the American Society for Testing and Materials):
a) The cetane number must be 47 or greater (using ASTM D 613 test method)
b) The thermal stability must be sufficient to meet a minimum reflectance limit of 80% (as determined by test ASTM D 6468)
c) The fuel must show suitable low-temperature operability by passing either the Cloud Point Test (ASTM D 2500) or Low Temperature Flow Test (ASTM D 4539) at the tenth percentile minimum ambient air temperature for the region and time of year where the fuel will be sold. Ambient temperatures for areas are noted in ASTM D 975
d) The lubricity must be sufficient to produce a scar no larger than 520 microns in diameter as determined by ASTM D 6079 (HFRR)
If the diesel meets theses requirement it will be posted on the pump that it is a Premium Diesel.
a) The cetane number must be 47 or greater (using ASTM D 613 test method)
b) The thermal stability must be sufficient to meet a minimum reflectance limit of 80% (as determined by test ASTM D 6468)
c) The fuel must show suitable low-temperature operability by passing either the Cloud Point Test (ASTM D 2500) or Low Temperature Flow Test (ASTM D 4539) at the tenth percentile minimum ambient air temperature for the region and time of year where the fuel will be sold. Ambient temperatures for areas are noted in ASTM D 975
d) The lubricity must be sufficient to produce a scar no larger than 520 microns in diameter as determined by ASTM D 6079 (HFRR)
If the diesel meets theses requirement it will be posted on the pump that it is a Premium Diesel.
#34
Senior Member
I missed that part when replying just a minute ago. Ford used to recommend a cetane booster/additive for the Powerstrokes. They might still do although I have not seen any of the pushes for it in at least a few years. I recall some other auto makers recommending various additives such as Porsche used to recommend back in the 80s(?) to put a bottle of Techron in once a year. I remember the Porsche recommendation in the actual owners manual of the car. The Ford thing to be honest I just saw at all the dealers and it was in Motorcraft branded bottles so assumed it was truly a Ford thing but I could be wrong and it could just been dealers conspiring to make a buck off people.
#35
Senior Member
Oh, another thing to consider is B5 is starting to roll out in a lot of pumps in preparation for Federal fuel mandates for biofuels that become required in upcoming years. Chevron is definitely doing this in the Houston area at least since I routinely see the stickers on the pumps. Some of the stickers are a little hard to notice due to them being clear with a colored text that blends well with the background they were put on. The stickers are not all the same, same message but different font and color usage. I am sure the B5 adds some more to people who want to debate fuel qualities or even the very usage of any biodiesel at all. As I understand it Chevron is starting things early to try and gear up to the requirement once it comes into effect.
#36
What I would like is a diesel fuel that has a Cetane that MB wants us to use I believe that to be 45 Cetane and here in the U.S. we get 40 Cetane.
Now would that void our warranty?
My last diesel needed 49 cetane and the 200,000 miles I put on it I used Cetane boost every tank and never had ANY problems with the fuel system or any other motor issues.
Did I spend money on the boost additive yes I did ,did it help the preformance injectors?
At 175,000 miles on them I had no ware on them when pop checked.
Will any auto maker ever say why yes you can use additives?
We all know what would happen if they did.
I will use a Cetane Boost in every tank of fuel I use , yes it will cost me money , yes I can pay for it , its just not that much money to worry about.
Will it hurt my car? It would have by now if it was going to.
See you at 250,000 miles if you make it.
Now would that void our warranty?
My last diesel needed 49 cetane and the 200,000 miles I put on it I used Cetane boost every tank and never had ANY problems with the fuel system or any other motor issues.
Did I spend money on the boost additive yes I did ,did it help the preformance injectors?
At 175,000 miles on them I had no ware on them when pop checked.
Will any auto maker ever say why yes you can use additives?
We all know what would happen if they did.
I will use a Cetane Boost in every tank of fuel I use , yes it will cost me money , yes I can pay for it , its just not that much money to worry about.
Will it hurt my car? It would have by now if it was going to.
See you at 250,000 miles if you make it.
The only money I have spent on injection systems on all these engines is to have the injectors checked on the 95 Cummins at about 190000 miles . They were fine. Not using additives clearly has saved me a pile of money over the years. Will post a picture of my S350 when we pick it up in Sindelfingen.
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
[QUOTE=FWhite; Will post a picture of my S350 when we pick it up in Sindelfingen.[/QUOTE]
Looking forward to it I have not used additives at any time but the savings have not added up to an S
Well done .
JC
Looking forward to it I have not used additives at any time but the savings have not added up to an S
Well done .
JC
#39
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2006 E320 CDI 235 hp 420 ft tq
I will use diesel fuel additives until someone show where there is a problem that was due to the fuel additives.
Price is $22.50 per 10,000 miles.
People that don't use fuel additives don't know if it will help just know that they are ok with out it.
Whargoul you have not shown any facts so I have no idea why you try so hard to make people want to listen to you , I hope you have a good day.
Price is $22.50 per 10,000 miles.
People that don't use fuel additives don't know if it will help just know that they are ok with out it.
Whargoul you have not shown any facts so I have no idea why you try so hard to make people want to listen to you , I hope you have a good day.
#40
Senior Member
I will use diesel fuel additives until someone show where there is a problem that was due to the fuel additives.
Price is $22.50 per 10,000 miles.
People that don't use fuel additives don't know if it will help just know that they are ok with out it.
Whargoul you have not shown any facts so I have no idea why you try so hard to make people want to listen to you , I hope you have a good day.
Price is $22.50 per 10,000 miles.
People that don't use fuel additives don't know if it will help just know that they are ok with out it.
Whargoul you have not shown any facts so I have no idea why you try so hard to make people want to listen to you , I hope you have a good day.
#41
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2006 E320 CDI 235 hp 420 ft tq
I do how leave the state from time to time and I had though that I would see more smoke.
I have just been a gear head to long to not know that company's will put just enough product in to
keep things going for a set number of miles.
The EPA has rules set for additives and they have to meet them or not sell in the U.S.
Power Service has been around for 55 years and they must have done some things right or they would have been long.
My CDI has had the ECM remapped and I don't to leave anything to chance.
Last edited by 2slowcdi; 04-04-2012 at 06:32 PM.
#42
Senior Member
Well do whatever males you feel confident in. The primary thing I have had worries about is cetane which led me to doing a massive amount of research on fuels and additives. A good bit of that research was face to face conversations with engineers who design/test various aspects of those. When it was all said and done I did know of an additive to run that helps things but learned the fuel was close enough to the cars needs that it was a waste of time for me. That was all for my 335d which specifies should be ran on premium diesel and a decently high cetane rating for the US. If I traveled in that car then I probably would run an additive from time to time.
Speaking of smoke, as the B5 has rolled out to all stations I go to, my truck pretty much never smokes, just sometimes a haze.
Speaking of smoke, as the B5 has rolled out to all stations I go to, my truck pretty much never smokes, just sometimes a haze.
#43
Super Member
Thank you,
Mike T.
#44
Super Member
I have been using Power Service DFS +Cetane in the CDI for the better part of 105K miles. So far so good, and starts and runs really well in freezing temps.
As a comparison, my last diesel, a 2004 Dodge Ram, had 80000 miles when I sold it, and I never used any additives.
I did however have to plug in the Ram during winter nights, and that is not an issue with the ML.
As a comparison, my last diesel, a 2004 Dodge Ram, had 80000 miles when I sold it, and I never used any additives.
I did however have to plug in the Ram during winter nights, and that is not an issue with the ML.
#45
Senior Member
Would a 2004 Ram have the newer style quick heat up glowplugs? My 2003 PSD does not but my 2009 335d does. I have talked to guys with the 335d cars up in Canada who claim never to still see a glowplug light. My truck is horrible about cold starts, it is like a jug of marbles in below freezing temps. My 300SD is not even that bad and by a long shot.
#46
Super Member
The ceramic glow plugs may be the difference. The Ram didn't have them back then. Forgot about that.
The only other thing I can add is that the CDI "seems" to run smoother when I use the additive per fill up, as opposed to when I forget to do so. Probably just mind over matter?
I just figure that 8 oz per 26 gallons won't break me or the Benz.
The only other thing I can add is that the CDI "seems" to run smoother when I use the additive per fill up, as opposed to when I forget to do so. Probably just mind over matter?
I just figure that 8 oz per 26 gallons won't break me or the Benz.
#47
Junior Member
any opinions on the Amsoil diesel additives? I've been a loyal user in my 95 E300D (finally retired it at 344k miles), and been planning to use it in my "new" 08 E320. My 95 always seemed to run smoother and quieter and less smoke with it...
#48
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2006 E320 CDI 235 hp 420 ft tq
Cost of Power Service Diesel Kleen that treats 250 gallons one 80 oz's jug , runs from $17 to $20 U.S.D. At one time Power Service had a jug that would treat 300 gallons for the same price.
It takes me a little over 312 gallons for 10,000 miles for me.
You should be in the same range with your 06 unless you have more city driving.
Sounds like Power Service Diesel Kleen treats more fuel per $ than "Diesel Kleen".
Unless you are talking about Power Service Diesel Kleen the gray bottle then you are putting in way to much.
Last edited by 2slowcdi; 04-08-2012 at 12:57 PM.
#49
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2008 R320 CDI, 2006 smart fortwo cabrio, 1983 240D, 1982 300SD, 1980 300SD
I have used it for years and keep using regardless of which diesel technology-it works. I have witnessed what it does to VW tdi injectors between four family cars all running under similar conditions/fuel (one car never had conditioner added), it was readily visible the deposits on the injectors and the engine noise. If you turn your car in every 100k miles, why bother right? It is a product for those of us who care about our engines and keep our vehicles as long as they were designed to last-decades not years. I average 250k miles every decade, and have every diesel still in the family since 1986...some over a million now.
Will it harm bluetecs? I highly doubt it.
Will it harm bluetecs? I highly doubt it.
#50
Where are you stealing your additives from¿
That is the entire point.
Cummins engines don't have glowplugs!
People that don't use fuel additives don't know if it will help just know that they are ok with out it.
Would a 2004 Ram have the newer style quick heat up glowplugs?